People.....pull your heads out of the sand....(torture issue)....

[HardWorkingDem]

Unless you are living on an undisclosed island some where and have been since 2001, there are high level Democrats that have "known" about all this crap since it has started.

It is ridiculous not to believe this and there are too many clues that prove otherwise.

There are only 535 congress people and to not believe that these people did not gossip or share information in their little enclosed society is laughable.

At the least, I'm sure many of these people played the see, hear and speak of no evil to inoculate themselves of knowing these things when finally they saw the light of day so they could play the game of being able to deny knowing or being told anything (Pelosi).

Do people here really believe that there was not ONE person within the Bush Administration or military with a conscience that did not leak this information somewhere in government to try and get it stopped?


Think of it people - the Iraqi people knew of the horrors going on in that prison.

People here arguing that Pelosi did or did not know this or that is not the point, because being one of the most powerful people in congress for years now, if she did not know, then she buried her own head in the sand while plugging both fingers in her ears and humming hoping all the bad things would just go away.

[Fresh_Start]

1. they are barred by statute from discussing it

I don't believe they were even allowed to discuss it with the others authorized to receive the briefing, let alone with someone not authorized for the briefing.

[HardWorkingDem]

8. And do you really, really...

believe they never told a soul? Right....

[Fresh_Start]

9. Yes, because of the type of information

and its sensitivity, I believe that they complied with their sworn duty

[HardWorkingDem]

11. Oh, my....

With all the stuff that has been written by Hersh, Woodward and others, yes, these people have complied with their loyalty oaths.


Get real. I can guarantee you that in the back rooms, bars and basements, these elected officials have been talking about this shit the day it was happening. People can't keep secrets. It's a human frailty.

I've seen it happen over and over again. The only difference here is that people are believing it and allowing these people to excuse their behavior.

[Fresh_Start]

12. Apparently I'm not human then

because I have complied when I've been in the same position.
Sorry unless you were a witness, you don't know either.
There is a difference between knowledge and opinion.

[HardWorkingDem]

13. And there is a difference between...

experiences and opinions.

One of the first rules in government work is nothing is kept secret. And if people here believe that all of this was not known within the 535 members of congress, or at the least, a very large number of them, then they better get real with their thoughts.

[babylonsister]

2. You're forgetting something.

This stuff was classified. Whatever was told, truth or not, was not allowed to be shared.

So should Pelosi be crucified because she couldn't talk about it? Because she's getting crucified now.

And if you stumble upon the name of a rethug who was briefed, I'd love to know who, and why the silence now.

And in 2002 she was not one of the most powerful people in Congress. She was a member of the minority party, and not the speaker. You're swallowing the rethug meme hook, line, and sinker.

[HardWorkingDem]

6. Go back and look at your history...

Pelosi has been quite powerful for some time; just because she was not one in title, does not mean she wasn't "powerful"....


And frankly, you are swalling the bullshit of all these Congress people if you excuse this crap by using the line of being in the minority.

When all the memoirs and tell all books are finally written, it will be clear, many, many people in Washington politics knew about this crap and knew of it from the start.

And do some reading from back then...

[Captain Hilts]

3. Here's hoping you burp after swallowing all that stuff whole. nt

[polichick]

4. Actually, Pelosi was a newbie on the Senate Intelligence Committee then...

I believe Bob Graham on this one, since I'm from Florida and have known him to be trustworthy for many years.

[emulatorloo]

5. Who do you believe? Senator Bob Graham or BOEHNER and Cheney's boys at the CIA

These Bush/Cheney people were not exactly "truth machines".

[HardWorkingDem]

7. You are missing some of my points...

For one, I don't believe those pricks.

But this is what I believe: there are many people who were privy to this information when it was happening. I work in government and know how government works. I've seen it happen time and time again where people hold up their hand and demand if they don't know about it, then they can't be held accountable for it.

Our people knew. And screw the sworn to secrecy bullshit excuses. I'd love to have the energy to read those provisions, because there is not one person that can convince me that there is not a way out to do something when it is learned about criminality (or if there is not, then this is a disgusting trump card our elected officials have put in place to give themselves a back door escape route).

[grasswire]

10. so what's the problem?

The truth is more valuable to the American people than any politician's career.

Let justice roll down.

Let the games begin.

Set the truth free.

[magellan]

14. Have to agree with you

The sworn to secrecy bs has bitten the Dems in the backsides twice now: the IWR and now torture. Or was it thrice? Add domestic wiretapping?

After watching this charade for several years I'm convinced there's a simple yet destructive dearth of interest in Congress as a whole for principled governance. IOW most are more concerned with CYA than what's best for the country. I don't see this unhappy condition improving.