Here's what I don't get: how could Cheney authorize *anything*???

[jgraz]

He's the frickin VICE president. He's not in the chain-of-command and his only constitutional powers are breaking ties in the Senate. Why in hell were people following his orders?

[Luv nut]

1. Educate yourself

Have you ever heard the term "delegation of authority"?

*edit* So should Obama do the same with Biden?

[jgraz]

4. Socialize yourself.

Have you ever heard the term "manners"?

[Luv nut]

11. ?

Was I rude?

[dorkulon]

17. A little. /nt

[MADem]

18. Profoundly. NT

[salguine]

25. Yeah.

[MADem]

16. You beat me to it. Well said. NT

[rasputin1952]

22. One cannot "delegate" the powers of the president to the VP...

The only Constitutional "power" the VP has is president of the Senate, breaking ties in a Senate vote, and waiting for a catastrophe in the realm of the president, ie, death/unable to continue because of medical problems, become the president if president is removed by impeachment.

bush was an inept chief executive, cheney filled the vacuum...but he did so illegally and as a direct affront to all of the "conservative principles" he bellowed so loudly.

The man is a criminal, a traitor and a farce. I'm hoping he goes down if Pelosi calls for a full investigation by calling his miserable bluff in blaming her for what he and his minions from hell did.

[tritsofme]

24. The entire executive branch is a function of the president delegating authority.

As head of the executive branch, I fail to see why he could not choose to delegate any decision making power to a subordinate.

[rasputin1952]

27. Presidents do all the time...

to their Cabinets.

Historically, the VP has never been a part of the equation.

[tritsofme]

29. Historically they have not been.

However until Biden's very public reversal of course, the trend had been toward a more powerful and dynamic vice presidency.

I think it was beyond irresponsible for Bush to delegate such important decision making powers to Cheney, but I don't think it was illegal.

[baldguy]

2. Do you think BUSH was in charge of *anything*?

When he wasn't stone drunk, they just made him sit in a corner with his crayons & coloring book.

[bobthedrummer]

3. After the coup he illegally expanded OVP into the Executive Branch

and Congress let him get away with it

[jgraz]

6. But how? I'm trying to find some official statement or document authorizing it

Or did it just *happen*, with no one challenging it?

[bobthedrummer]

7. Congress failed to preserve, protect and defend OUR Constitution...

They collectively allowed the criminal BUSH DOCTRINE of "preemptive" war and all that followed...

[jgraz]

8. I'd like to think it was more than group think and raw chutzpah

I'd like to think that, but I don't. Depressing...

[Luv nut]

13. Separation of powers

Do you understand what that means?

I don't mean to sound rude but.......

Who is going to stop the Commander in Chief from making a command decision like that?

Congress does not have the authority to challenge him on it. NOBODY does.

As long as the order does not violate any laws.

I'm not a Bush supporter by any means.....

All I'm saying is if you don't know how the .gov works don't go posting a bunch of ignorant BS.

Educate yourself first.

[Luv nut]

20. oops!

I'm sorry!!!!!!

Was I being rude again?


Damn it!! I hate it when I do that!

[tritsofme]

19. How or why would Congress interfere with the POTUS delegating authority to the VPOTUS?

The OVP is part of the Executive Branch.

While incredibly unsound, I'm failing to see how its illegal.

[Luv nut]

21. Exactly!

And don't forget, The current prez is going to do it too!

[bobthedrummer]

26. The "expansion", and let's not forget that just before 9/11 Cheney was brought to US Court

by GAO (which is Congress) for his secrecy and disregard of numerous requests about the National Energy Policy Development Group/NEPDG

http://cryptome.org/cg-v-vp-comp.htm

[Turbineguy]

5. I think they're just

looking through Bush, that's all.

[pkdu]

9. Executive Order 13292

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200602160841.asp

<snip>
Cheney was referring to Executive Order 13292, issued by President Bush on March 25, 2003, which dealt with the handling of classified material. That order was not an entirely new document but was, instead, an amendment to an earlier Executive Order, number 12958, issued by President Bill Clinton on April 17, 1995.

At the time, Bush's order received very little coverage in the press. What mention there was focused on the order's provisions making it easier for the government to keep classified documents under wraps. But as Cheney pointed out Wednesday, the Bush order also contained a number of provisions which significantly increased the vice president's power.

Throughout Executive Order 13292, there are changes to the original Clinton order which, in effect, give the vice president the power of the president in dealing with classified material. In the original Clinton executive order, for example, there appeared the following passage:

Classification Authority.
(a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
(1) the President;
(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register...
In the Bush order, that section was changed to this (emphasis added):

Classification Authority.
(a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
(1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President;
(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register...
In another part of the original Clinton order, there was a segment dealing with who was authorized to delegate the authority to classify material. In the Clinton order, the passage read:

(2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President or by an agency head or official designated...
(3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; an agency head or official designated...
In the Bush order, that segment was changed to read (emphasis added):

(2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated...
(3) "Secret" or "Confidential" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated...
Both executive orders contained extension sections defining the terms used in the order. One of those terms was "original classification authority," that is, who in the government has the power to classify documents. In the Clinton order, the definition read:

"Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President...
In the Bush executive order, the definition was changed to read (emphasis added):

"Original classification authority" means an individual authorized in writing, either by the President, the Vice President in the performance of executive duties, or by agency heads or other officials designated by the President...
In the last several years, there has been much talk about the powerful role Dick Cheney plays in the Bush White House. Some of that talk has been based on anecdotal evidence, and some on entirely fanciful speculation. But Executive Order 13292 is real evidence of real power in the vice president's office. Since the beginning of the administration, Dick Cheney has favored measures allowing the executive branch to keep more things secret. And in March of 2003, the president gave him the authority to do it. <snip>

Sorry the ref is from NRO but it explains in good detail how the powers were even FURTHER delegated to Libby.

Cheers
P

[rcrush]

10. Everyone knew who was really in charge.

No one was going to do anything about it. They were too powerful. They still are.

[rocktivity]

12. Because he really WAS the president, of course!

It was he and Rove who ran the country. Bush was a figurehead!

:think:
rocktivity

[Cleita]

14. Because that administration worked outside the accepted limits of the

executive office. They stretched laws and rules to suit themselves and what they couldn't stretch far enough they changed. Cheney should never have been Vice President. The Vice President should be able to run for office of the President after his term is up. Cheney had no intention of doing that.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Because Anyone Who Questioned Him Started Choking and Gagging

oh wait, that was Darth Vader. Hard to tell the difference.

[jgraz]

23. Win.

:rofl:

[liberalpragmatist]

28. Remember, he's the 4th branch of government

It's there in Article VIII. Legislative, Executive, Judicial and Dick Cheney.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. That's very simple

Idiot Son needed only delegate.

Idiot Son, in fact, delegated his whole job to The Dick.

Idiot Son was just the puppet who spoke when told to and otherwise was left alone and sent out of twon so he would be out of the way.

[dkofos]

31. Who do you think was really running the show for the past 8 years?

[jgraz]

32. The question is not who was running the show

The question is why anyone felt compelled to follow his directives.

[leftstreet]

33. Crashcart must have massive files of dirt on Congress

Maybe that's how he hurt his back on moving day - carting out all the file boxes.

[jgraz]

34. "crashcart"

:spray: