***OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OBAMA/DARTH CHENEY "Duel" Thread #2

[shadowknows69]

Thread one is here

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5695229&mesg_id=5695229>

[Mari333]

1. here we go with the torture photos

[shadowknows69]

2. Justifying not releasing the photos now

BULSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. All guilty parties have been dealt with. BULLSHIT.

[ShortnFiery]

3. He's defending holding the photos. I don't agree but he has a rationale. nt

[shadowknows69]

8. Bushco had a "rationale" for every twisted thing they did.

And President Obama is helping to cover up the horrors they committed.

[ShortnFiery]

11. Yes, I do fault him for not getting rid of the DOD hold over leadership. That's exactly

where he's getting this bogus advice. This is WRONG. Agreed.

[gcomeau]

32. Oh shut the hell up.

He is doing no such fucking thing. It is not a "cover-up" when he comes out and says, on national goddamn television "Yep, the pictures exist, and yes they show illegal actions." just because he won't then let the public look at the damn things because plastering them all over every television and newspaper on the planet would be inflammatory and cause increased hazards for troops in the field. That's the fucking opposite of a cover-up and I'm getting really sick of this bullshit being flung around the forum.

[shadowknows69]

37. No, it's justifying the cover up fuck you very much.

Just because you believe the bullshit reasons doesn't mean those of us with brains have to.

[gcomeau]

44. Learn what the hell "cover up" means

Come back when you do. Until then run along and play.

[shadowknows69]

50. I play just fine with whoever I want. Bring it, don't sing it. Justify it again to me.

[Mari333]

41. he can end the wars and protect the troops just fine

the german people didnt want to see concentration camp photos either. but they did, and the truth always sets us free. anything less is a coverup.

[sinkingfeeling]

54. Do you really believe that the pictures would cause more 'blow-back' than the already committed

acts themselves? I think most Iraqis and Afghanis already know the brutality of America.

[gcomeau]

114. There is a difference, and don't pretend you don't know it...

...between knowing the abuse took place, and having graphic images of it plastered on every television and newspaper in the country. There is an increased emotional reaction to visuals.

And the point remains that not releasing the photos WHILE PUBLICLY ADMITTING what they contain has no relation whatsoever to a "cover up". Or else I suppose the police are also "covering up" every murder they don't publish the grizzly crime scene photos of on the front page of the local paper... OMG! It's a law enforcement conspiracy to hide the truth from the American people!!!

[springhill]

122. Exactly..........

And the very reason we HAVE to see them.

[gcomeau]

143. Ummm.... no.

No, it is not the very reason we have to see them. Because "we" are not the only ones who will.

I am perfectly well aware that there are people on this forum whose sole and only concern is nailing Bush and crew to the wall for what they did. That want nothing more than to have the entire nation rise up and react with the same fury to those people that they themselves feel so they want the pictures published because people right now, even knowing what happened, aren't angry enough and that pisses them off. They want fury. They want outrage. they want protests in the street calling for the arrest of the figures in the previous administration responsible for this. And I am not unsympathetic, I'll throw a little party if I ever see Bush hauled off in chains as he should be. But for cripes sake grow the hell up and consider the bigger picture. Publishing those pictures means they show up EVERYWHERE. If you're all goddamn eager to get Americans pissed and furious by showing showing the graphic visuals in their face then take 5 damn seconds to think about how pissed and furious all those people thousands of troops who had nothing to fucking do with that abuse are sitting right on the goddamn middle of in Iraq and Afghanistan are going to be when you do the same thing to them and what the potential consequences are.

[sinkingfeeling]

132. I didn't say not releasing them was a cover-up. I just think Obama should release them as the courts

ordered.

[shadowknows69]

141. This is bigger than a localized crime

Nice straw man though.

[gcomeau]

146. Which somehow changes the definition of "cover-up"?

How fascinating. I didn't know the concept had a size requirement. Do elaborate!

[cali]

69. you'd have an argument had he not released the torture memos

but he did, ergo reason tells us that whatever his reasons, covering up for bushco is not the motive. that's pretty elementary.

[shadowknows69]

85. The why not release the photos too. Because pictures are more powerful than words maybe?

And we couldn't have the populace get all indignant about the fact that their goverment used to be populated by monsters who should go to jail or anything.

[shadowknows69]

4. blaming the press now. That's transparency for you.

[Mari333]

5. his national security team aka

Robert Gates, Bush lackey.
bullshit Obama!!! release the damned photos.

[ShortnFiery]

7. Hey, look at who he has to work with? I hope he lets GATES go in the near future.

Plus those Generals held over from the past Administration need to GO!

He'll get much better advice subsequent to a little DOD "house cleaning."

[shadowknows69]

12. He could have and should have let Gates go on day one.

[ShortnFiery]

15. You're preaching to the choir. I don't get it at all with regard to the Ghouls remaining in DOD.

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

10. Yeah, I do have to agree with that part....

...the rest of what he is saying, IMO, is right on...but the photos NEED to come out. Hiding them is not the solution.

JMHO

[Hepburn]

6. K&R....let's get this to the Greatest Page...

...:hi:

This is a great speech. I did not like how it started...but IMO Obama is kicking butt now!

:bounce:

[Mari333]

9. he uses the words interrogation techniques

instead of Torture.
cognitive dissonance. about that, and the photos.
now hes defending that he still wants transparency.
you cant have it both ways Obama. you want to protect the troops?
BRING THEM HOME.

[ShortnFiery]

13. Excellent Point. If we stop killing civilians with our "smart bombs" and bring the troops home.

Well, gee, if we're not stirring up shit-storms in the Middle East Neighborhood, JUST PERHAPS we won't be *Loathed and/or FEARED* by many throughout the world. :shrug:

[Mari333]

14. aaaa men! nt

[ShortnFiery]

27. I've traveled and lived all over the world. Many Americans who do not travel much

have NO IDEA that the rest of the world community FEARS the USA. We are not a pillar of morality that we think. The Cognitive Dissonance must be a measure of our whorish M$M. Thank God I'm blessed to also listen to PRI and Euro-news.

Far too many of us in the USA, willfully allow the M$M to keep us in "a cocoon of cowardice" where it comes to the operation of the rest of the Nations within this World. :(

[shadowknows69]

16. I will never keep anything secret from you, but if I do I'll tell you why.

Well thanks for that. The last part of that sentence makes me feel so much better about the fact that you lied to me in the first part of it.

:eyes:

[Mari333]

19. yes that was creepy

[Muttocracy]

21. "trust me" - goes against oversight - and aren't FOIA requests a form of oversight?! nt

[TwilightZone]

22. Cheney actually said that?

The most secretive VP in history claims that he won't keep anything from us?

I think he needs a psychological evaluation.

[Muttocracy]

25. No, Pres Obama just said that (streaming on c-span.org)

[TwilightZone]

28. Ok, sorry. I thought that Cheney was already speaking.

I'm at work, and I haven't had a chance to catch any of it live.

[Muttocracy]

31. it was a little surprising to hear from Obama phrased that way. nt

[TwilightZone]

42. Actually, I think it was a direct shot at Cheney.

Everyone knows that he's a secretive bastard. It sounds like Obama was taking a swipe at Cheney by making the distinction.

[shadowknows69]

56. How's that sand your head is in feel?

[TwilightZone]

66. No worse than yours.

From what I've read in these threads, he just spent half an hour talking about how Bush/Cheney led us in the wrong direction, made a bunch of bone-headed decisions, and held information from the public. He then states that he won't do the same.

Looks pretty clear to me.

Perhaps you should review your preconceived notions before declaring others guilty of same.

[shadowknows69]

74. Yes he did and his policies to change that are the right direction

The ratioinale for not releasing the photos is still BULLSHIT, and it speaks much of his political fortitude. Why did he do a 180 after two weeks. Is that a strong leader?

[shadowknows69]

30. Yeah sorry to burst your bubble. Sounds like a Cheneyism though almost doesn't it.

Or worse, a nonsensical Bushsim.

[TwilightZone]

46. Not sure I'd agree with your assessment.

Sounds more like Obama was taking a swipe at Cheney. Everyone is aware of how secretive Cheney was; I think Obama was making a distinction.

[Muttocracy]

17. thanks for these threads shadow - I missed the start so this will help

Not crazy about the photo justification :(

[Mari333]

23. covering up is never pretty

and the good old boys in DC still seem to run the show.

[stillrockin]

18. WE WANT JUSTICE!

[Amaya]

40. Yes!

quit blowing smoke up our ass- SHOW THE PHOTOS!
Cheney & Bush need to be held accountable!

[shadowknows69]

20. Focus on the future, move forward,

Debates that have been settled? THESE ARE FUCKING WAR CRIMES NOT DEBATES!!!

[Mari333]

26. yeah no kidding!!!!!! jesus f christ

[stillrockin]

24. OK, this part is pure obfuscation. Hold them ALL accountable!

[ShortnFiery]

34. We have to make him do his job. We will continue to vote out gutless wonder

Democrats and organize within strong UNIONS. We will overcome. :thumbsup:

[stillrockin]

29. Honest and care? Bring on the effing TRUTH!

[Gregorian]

33. We're either a Democracy based on laws, or we are not.

I have not given up on Obama.

[shadowknows69]

39. Well, honestly I'm pretty close.

[Mari333]

35. the blah blah blah of covering up for the warmongers

wants us to just forget about it. sorry, we wont.

[stillrockin]

36. Don't look behind the curtain.

He is on the wrong side of this, selling it hard.

[Graybeard]

38. Who is in the audience in the hall?

Has it been said? A lot of applause on the important points. The audience is certainly receptive to the Prez's side of the "duel".

[Mari333]

45. well, a lot of politicians

who own stock in defense dept contracts perhaps?

[shadowknows69]

43. You cannot defeat Al Qaida.

Because we have transformed it from a bunch of CIA trained goat herders to fight the Russians by proxy into a world wide IDEAL; and you can't defeat an ideal no matter how many people you kill.

[Mari333]

47. we need to defeat the mindset of the Military Industrial Complex

until that happens this is what we get.

[Amaya]

112. exactly... but

i don't believe this mindset will change- we have become the biggest hypocrites in the world.

[Mari333]

156. Ive seen it for 58 yrs.

Empires seem to take a long long time to crumble.

[ShortnFiery]

48. Obama SEIOUSLY needs to clean out DOD to include Petraeus and McCrystal.

If he keeps these WARMONGERS we are all screwed ... I FEAR there will be other attacks on our soil.

[Hepburn]

49. Darth WarCriminal now speaking....

...:puke:

[ShortnFiery]

51. That horse's patootie is at AEI ... what a VILE excuse for humanity he is.

:puke:

[shadowknows69]

52. I knew I should have taken some Xanax before this

[Gregorian]

53. Do we really need a half trillion dollar military to keep us fearless?

Why are we not asking what is the cause that makes people hate America?

I hear Obama's voice reflecting the fact that this is a nation of people in a tug of war. On the left, we're asking important questions. On the right, they're blindly running after the dollar. Obama is restrained by that other half of America. He cannot just do what he wants.

[ShortnFiery]

55. Four deferments Cheney bases his Torture Program on the TV show "24"

He's such a big fan, George W. Bush gave him The Complete Box Set for Christmas last year. :puke:

[Gregorian]

57. WHY IS THE MEDIA GIVING AIR TIME TO DICK 17% CHENEY!?

This is ridiculous. He's a civilian criminal. Get out of here.

I'm not watching, although I probably should.

[malaise]

58. They love

Dickstory lessons.

[shadowknows69]

60. I won't be able to take much.

[ShortnFiery]

61. Because a public which lives in "FEAR" is much easier to control.

They haven't given away all our wealth to the upper 1% yet. There's still medicare to raid, et. al.

[Gregorian]

65. You've been studying up on authoritarians! YES!

Oh, we're catching on. We're on to them. :)

[ShortnFiery]

70. Yes, he's so "adorable" still slinging the FEAR card ... over and over about 9/11.

What a vile excuse for a human being. :grr:

[ShortnFiery]

78. Holy Shit! He even talked about the people who "jumped to their death" out of

the NYC Skyscrapers.

Has mentioned "HORROR" a couple times now. :crazy:

Somebody get a fucking butterfly net, we've got us a total PARANOID PSYCHOPATH.

Cheney is now channeling Jack Bauer.

[MineralMan]

59. So, from this thread, I get that President Obama

has embarrassed himself in his speech. Apparently he has said nothing of value. Is that the case? Oh...I see...it's the single issue folks speaking. Never mind.

[shadowknows69]

63. Not single issue, the most important issue. Are we a nation of laws or not?

[MineralMan]

73. Yes we are. You apparently didn't understand my post.

Did President Obama say ANYTHING you agree with, or was the entire speech about the photos?

I'm not listening, so I was reading this thread in hopes of hearing something more than a single point. I agree that the torturers need to be prosecuted.

Did President Obama talk about anything else, or did he spend an entire half hour on that topic?

[shadowknows69]

93. He said plenty I agreed with. Changing military commission procedure

More independent oversight of detainee trials, adherence to our core principles. All very promising; but for me the photo issue makes all the other flowery talk suspect. You're either for transparency or you're not.

[cali]

87. we've never been a nation of laws.

never It's a platonic ideal and it can be approached but never fully attained.

[shadowknows69]

100. Thank you for confirming why I have no more faith at all in my country

[TwilightZone]

75. Yeah, funny how this thread and the myriad others praising the speech differ, eh?

Preconceived notions are a wonderful thing. They act as a rather effective prism.

[MineralMan]

80. Well, I'm just ducking in and out reading threads, and I hit

this one...supposedly the be-all and end-all of threads about these speeches. And what do I find? A bunch of people not talking about the speech at all, but about one, single topic.

I guess I'll have to wait until I have time to read other threads. I was hopeful, but disappointed by this one.

[TwilightZone]

90. Let's just say that getting multiple perspectives of the speech...

from a variety of threads would be a good idea.

[shadowknows69]

104. The door wasn't locked. Anyone could have come in and live-blogged with us.

[TwilightZone]

119. Certainly.

Heck, some people were even discussing the overall content of the speech instead of looking for triggers with a magnifying glass.

[shadowknows69]

134. Yeah I was too for nearly the whole first thread.

[kjackson227]

89. Exactly. President Obama laid it out AND explained EVERYTHING perfectly...

I'm not sure what some want. As he said, most Americans are not absolutists, but unfortunately, there are some whether they be from the far left to the right-wing whackos, that only care about their ideologies. This was an EXCELLENT speech, and I'm with this president 99%.

[MineralMan]

94. Thanks. So it wasn't all bad...the speech?

You'd never know it from this thread.

[Muttocracy]

157. I started watching just when he was talking about not releasing the photos

now that I'm listening to the first part (also reflected in the first thread) - I'm much happier with what Obama had to say.

[MineralMan]

158. It's good to look at the whole picture, isn't it?

[Muttocracy]

159. yeah, and I think the comments in the first thread reflected that too

but I get what you're saying

[Gregorian]

62. Cheney looks bad. Big bags under his eyes.

:)

[ShortnFiery]

64. Yeah, but we'll be subjected to his evil spawn, Liz, on FOX for the duration.

:puke:

[shadowknows69]

67. Cheney rewriting the last 20 years of history for us.

How enlightening.

[Hepburn]

68. Lying Piece of Shit....

...:grr:

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

71. this speech seems to be about Dick.

[Gregorian]

72. Is this a rerun? I think I've seen this movie before. 9/11 9/11 9/11...

Dick, you're so predictable.

[Hepburn]

76. How many ways can that POS say....

...Saddam was connected to 911 without actually saying those words?

:puke:

[shadowknows69]

77. This is just getting obscene now. I don't think I can listen to Darth anymore.

I'd be more impressed if he just dropped his pants and tried to suck his own dick for real.

[ShortnFiery]

82. Oh but he's on a roll, fully channeling Jack Bauer.

Too bad all his EXPERIENCE in intelligence comes from watching "24."

But FEAR SELLS ... or will it?

Ooooh, those evil NY Times. :crazy:

[mikelgb]

Anthrax, he remembers Anthrax

he can still taste the stamp adhesive

[me b zola]

154. +1

[azul]

79. Cheney should not get any of this attention.

He is a scoundrel held in the lowest regard with zero credibility. Charge him with the crimes that he has admitted to.

The president should call for an investigation of the media in misleading the public and contributing to war crimes -that should shut them up and put a plug in Cheney and his gang.

The investigations should then get going faster, names and statements and positions noted, and then the photos released come election time, and let the bums fall.

[Gregorian]

81. Mr. Cheney, if you really cared about intelligence, you would not have revealed Plame!

[ShortnFiery]

88. With Four Deferments, he can only fantasize what HE WANTS to be true.

And made it so.

Oh the HOR-ROR! Real life intelligence gathering is not anything like "24."

What a crazy man.

[Hepburn]

83. He is now slamming the NYTimes...

...for revealing their illegal activities???

Fuck you, Cheney!

[riverdeep]

84. Cheney's now putting up a false dicotomy.

He's saying either you think that 911 was a one-off event, or you think it's a continuous war.

Also, justifying how legal it was. It was LEGAL. Did I say it was legal?

[Hepburn]

86. Total strawman argument....

...to justify illegal bullshit.

Liar, liar, liar!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

91. Somebody get a hook? He's embarrassing US.

:puke:

[riverdeep]

92. Guess what, he did explain why he released it Dick.

I guess this is why Obama put the speech on now, so Dick wouldn't be able to tailor his arguments.

Thank God Cspan only has audio, I don't think I could take the visual.

[riverdeep]

95. Only a select few were ever reserved for 'enhanced interrogation'.

Uh, how about the people who were raped and beaten? LIE LIE LIE LIE.

[ShortnFiery]

98. Yes, that's why the Goverment is holding over 2000 photos! Just "a few" bad apples.

:eyes:

[Gregorian]

96. The media is justifying Cheney by merely giving him air time.

Americans should be outraged that this man is even allowed on tv.

He is a leading figure who is feeding the foolish. It's a crime that they've let him on our air waves.

What he is doing right now is attempting to change the perception of his crimes.

[Raksha]

97. This is more than I can stand...

Darth Cheney is talking about how wrong it is for the incoming administration to "criminalize" the actions of the previous one. You criminalized yourself, asshole!!! Do you really think we're too stupid to KNOW that!!! Un-freakin-believable!!!

[EFerrari]

99. This speech is meant to discredit any attempt to prosecute this felon.

[ShortnFiery]

102. Oh, but I have faith that Cheney won't weasel out on his meeting with Saint Peter.

:evilgrin:

[TwilightZone]

103. Exactly. That's really the only item on the agenda.

All of Cheney's recent appearances are part of his attempt to build a defense.

[bleever]

105. He's killing his own case here by lying and distorting.

He's a defense lawyer's nightmare.

[Hepburn]

111. I have to think that Cheney is doing what he is doing because....

....of a fear of prosecution for his War Crimes. Tainting the jury pool. But, I do agree...he is a defense attys worst nightmare. I would think he would have taken the 5th. However I have to assume that since he lied his way through 8 years, he has not clue what the fuck it is.

[ShortnFiery]

115. Cheney is IMO, truly on THE BIG VACATION. He's gone insane. nt

[Hepburn]

121. Well, insanity is a legal defense....

...and, yeah, he most certainly is proving up he has NO clue as to reality.

[EFerrari]

131. Yep. And attacking a hugely popular president isn't going to drive people

to his side, either.

[riverdeep]

101. Now he says Abu Gharib was just a few bad apples.

Nonsense. They were instructed baby. What happened at black site prisons?

[Hepburn]

106. Please, draw your last breath on live, national TV...

...and save this nation further embarassment.

:puke:

[riverdeep]

107. This guy needs to be in the hague. Nothing less will work.

He has no shame whatsoever. Beyond hubris.

[ShortnFiery]

108. I wish he'd take a long needed vacation to say ..... SPAIN?

;)

[AngryOldDem]

109. I vote for hell. n/t

[Hepburn]

116. Hell is too good for Cheney...

...people like Hitler are there.

[kentuck]

110. Cheney says there was no torture...

Repeat: There was no torture. They knew where the line was and they did not cross it. Got it?

[ShortnFiery]

113. Did you just catch the audio on this recent "applause" ... what is there 5 people there?

:shrug:

[kentuck]

117. Very light applause...

for torture in America.

[ShortnFiery]

123. Now he's "out there" ... in full Jack Bauer mode ... believes that it's a STAR performance

instead of what it is, IN REALITY, a pathetic, bitter, mean-spirited old man who's fast becoming IRRELEVANT.

[shadowknows69]

120. It was obviously a scripted "applause" break in the speech

I suspect everyone has the annotated copy in their laps.

[Raksha]

130. Oh yeah, they didn't cross the line...yeah, RIGHT!!!

Then how come we have at least 98 detainees (it's probably a lowball estimate) who were tortured to death? Really...just how stupid does this asshole think we are???

[riverdeep]

118. I think this an absolutely unprecedented event.

I have never seen an outgoing administration absolutely slamming the present administration like this. It's just blowing my mind.

[shadowknows69]

126. Any network carrying all of this, including MSNBC should lose their FCC license.

It has no actual newsworthiness at all other than to perhaps give a summary of it. He's getting more face time than the President did.

[Hepburn]

128. I have to think that Obama has a plan for allowing this...

...like he knows something that POS Cheney does not know...and it is gonna come out and shut down this kind of crap.

:shrug:

[TwilightZone]

137. I think that Obama understands that he has nearly all of the political capital at the moment.

I think he also believes that people will see Cheney for what he is - a bitter old man with an axe to grind and a potential lawsuit to defend.

[Raksha]

155. No, I think Cheney knows good and well what it is...

This is kind of an intuitive flash based on his speech, so take it for what it's worth: There is SOMETHING that is still classified that he knows about, and he's terrified that it will be declassified and made public any day. It's hard to imagine anything worse than what's come out already, but this will be so ugly, so damning, that Obama will HAVE to appoint a special prosecutor if he wants to retain any credibility at all. And then it's all over for Cheney.

But it's like he's playing chicken, taunting Obama and daring him to release it. That's what is so weird...it's almost suicidal.

[janx]

133. I agree!

It's very bad form at the very least.

[Raksha]

150. Me neither...that one thing that's obvious is the Cheney is desperate.

He's scared to death of SOMETHING...something we don't know about yet, but I have a feeling we will in the near future.

[xiamiam]

160. i cant watch..but i pray that whatever he says moves him closer to prosecution..nt

[AngryOldDem]

124. Oh for Chrissake.

I'm reminded of the Bill Maher comment: "They hate us because we don't understand why they hate us."

[alfredo]

125. So criminalizing policy decisions of the past administration is wrong?

What if they were already wrong? According the Darth Cheney he could rape, kill, and dismember a fourteen year old boy then frame it as a policy decision and walk free. Asshole.

[riverdeep]

127. I don't have a visual, but I think he sounds ill, keeps coughing

and breathing hard. Stay strong Dick, you've got a trial coming up. We don't want you going anywhere for a long long time. Bastard.

[shadowknows69]

129. Please keep coughing. That final click of the ticker is just one good hack away DICK.

[ShortnFiery]

136. I hope someone counted how many times he said "the terrorists."

Whoa! He's way gone. :crazy:

[AngryOldDem]

138. Isn't a persistent cough a symptom of heart failure? n/t

[Hepburn]

139. +1...n/t

[merh]

135. They need to try that motherfucker

the treasonous bastard - the lying sack of shit, treasonous bastard.

[ShortnFiery]

142. He is bordering on TREASON . He's really out there ... CIA? Panetta needs to make

sure that Cheney doesn't have any of his "cohorts" embedded there.

Cheney is fucking dangerous. :wow:

[merh]

145. I'm just in shock, the shit he is saying

I can't believe this man is saying this shit

[ShortnFiery]

148. I'm thinking about Conrad's Novel "Heart of Darkness"

Cheney has morped into Kurtz. :wow: :scared: :puke:

[merh]

153. Kurtz - that's it

I'm disgusted and frightened that this man is allowed to speak with such disregard for the nation - he is delusional and so too are those that let him make these appearances.

[Subdivisions]

140. 'President Obama has reserved upon himself when to use enhanced

interrogation techniques and when not to."

WTF???

Obama BANNED torture, asshole!

[ShortnFiery]

144. "good work of our intelligence professionals?" WTF you and Bush BLAMED it all on

INTELLIGENCE ... you BLAMED them for not finding the WMD and/or not accurately reporting on it.

But YOU were the one FORMULATING the Intelligence Reports.

YOU Cheney, abandoned The Intelligence Professionals for you POWER-GRAB.

Vile POS. :puke:

[riverdeep]

147. He's painting himself as a pragmatist while Obama

is this naive ineffectual lawyer. Their administration was decisive, consulting others makes America vulnerable.

[riverdeep]

149. Why does he always say there has never been another attack?

What about the anthrax attacks. Remember the duct tape and tarp?

[AngryOldDem]

151. Damn sight more people applauded when he left the room...

...than when they did during the speech.

[riverdeep]

152. Thank Jah it's over.

That's the longest I've ever listening to the Dick without a break in eight years. Now, off to the bathroom.