Guess what? You're both wrong.

[walldude]

Obama is not anything like Bush, in fact it's quite impossible for him to do any worse than the Bush administration did. He didn't rape the constitution, he didn't allow terrorists to attack us, he didn't start any wars, he didn't turn US policy making over to corporations, he hasn't let a major US city drown. He's not more of the same.

Obama does not need "more time". I don't care how many problems he has to deal with that is not an excuse to make the wrong decision. Continuing secret prison detentions? That sham of a credit card bill? No single payer at the table? A flat no on legalization? Military tribunals? Equal rights for GLBT? All piss poor decisions.


Obama is neither horrible or great, he just is. I think it's going to be up to us to push him in the right direction. The people who don't want to complain are going to need to start speaking up and the people who can't complain without invoking Godwin's law are going to need to put a lid on it. If we work together as reasonable people we might actually get something done.



Of course, I'm probably wrong too as I'm sure someone will point out :evilgrin:

[WeDidIt]

1. K & "F"ing R n/t

[dionysus]

2. yes, you're totally wrong (well you asked for it)

;)

[Old Codger]

3. Not Wrong

Right on the money.... K&R

[madmom]

4. K&R

:thumbsup:

[CrownPrinceBandar]

5. Thanks for the calm thinking!............

I agree 100% with your post, especially the last paragraph. Obama was hired as our leader. We put him there and he's responsible to us. If we don't like what he does, we can ditch him.

Addressing the other point in the last paragraph, I really don't understand the bad behavior on DU. I can't fathom the whole criticism = disloyalty (read: FREEPER) back and forth seen in GD and GD-P. Maybe it speaks to the anonymity of the internet that some intelligent and well-regarded posters feel the need to act like shitheads and deem it necessary to dispense w/ civility to defend their POV on an internet message board.

But, I'm probably wrong too (and I will be informed).

[noiretextatique]

6. very realistic

a friend of mine who was a big obama cheerleader is now calling for his head. he's made some terrible decisions, and it's time for him to stop the 'bipartisan' crap and get on the bully pulpit. fuck trying to appease the rw.

[walldude]

7. A kick on my way out to work..

[Truth2Tell]

8. Wow. This post

is so very apropos of the head-spinning politics of Obama.

It highlights the magical ability to hold precisely contradictory positions at the same exact time.

"he didn't turn US policy making over to corporations" vs "No single payer at the table"

or

"He didn't rape the constitution" vs "Continuing secret prison detentions"

A little something for everyone. But only look straight ahead cuz if you turn around it won't make sense.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. He's a politician. And, like all politicians, his first priority is to get re-elected.

Expecting otherwise is a fool's errand. Just as "not as bad" is a poor rationale for failure.

[Cary]

11. So negative. . . n/t

[Cary]

10. Not so fast

"Obama is neither horrible or great, he just is. I think it's going to be up to us to push him in the right direction. The people who don't want to complain are going to need to start speaking up and the people who can't complain without invoking Godwin's law are going to need to put a lid on it. If we work together as reasonable people we might actually get something done."

It is way too soon to label him either "horrible or great," or even to say "he just is." He is a man with a job to do, and it's a very difficult job. I wouldn't want his job for anything.

It is to some extent our job to push him in the right direction. I don't know that you or anyone else is in a position to tell any of us how to do our job. Actually it is more accurate to say that it is our job to second guess Obama in 2012, or perhaps 2010 to some extent.

Working together as reasonable people is a good suggestion but it is still, for the most part, on Barack Obama's shoulders. It's not so much that I don't want to complain but rather we have entrusted this man, Barack Obama, for better or for worse. I want for better and I have faith in Barack Obama's intelligence and skill unless and until he proves me wrong for having faith in him.

I'm not going to agree with everything he does, and he's not going to make all the right decisions. I'm not a Dick Cheney or an idiotic rightist who believes that everything is black and white. I swear I almost puked when Cheney started talking about how we have to do everything Cheney's way or we're compromising with terrorists. No, I'm not going to say that I have all the right answers.

Cheney had his chance and he needs to shut the fuck up. It's Barack Obama's turn. I withhold judgment until such time as I have enough information.

[leftstreet]

13. How f**king difficult is it to follow Bush/Cheney?

Jeeez...it's not like Obama is following on the heels of FDR.

The voters rejected rightwing trickle down Reaganism and expensive bullshit wars.

Single payer healthcare
No wars
Good paying jobs
Increased Social spending

It's not brain surgery when THE PEOPLE are behind you!

[Cary]

14. It's just the most difficult job in the world.

I wouldn't want that job for anything.

Give him time. Be patient.

[leftstreet]

15. How difficult is it if Dubya could do it?

:shrug:

[Cary]

16. What makes you think he did it? n/t

[walldude]

17. All the time in the world is not going to make him change his stance

on Gay Marriage or Legalization or a host of other issues he has already decided on. It's not time he needs...

[Cary]

18. Perhaps not.

But it's reasonable to say that gay marriage is a matter for states to decide.

While I'm in favor, I don't see any merit in the equal protection argument. It isn't a federal question.

[walldude]

19. No merit in all people having the same federal rights?

Is that what you just said? That there is no merit in equal protection on the federal level? It's "Reasonable"? :crazy: Call me crazy but somehow I think the GLBT community might have a different perspective.

[D23MIURG23]

12. awesome.

[glitch]

20. Good point. Also

that we have high expectations for Obama is not an insult to him.

[LWolf]

21. You're wrong.

:evilgrin:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Actually, you are not wrong by much.

It's true that Obama could not "do any worse than Bush." In some areas, he is, and will be, quite a bit better. That's a relief.

In one area, though, he IS worse for the nation.

You mention all of the piss poor decisions. If he were a republican president making those decisions, the party would at least pretend, in most cases, to unite against him. Although, as we saw during the Bush occupation, Democrats were more the party of cave-ins and enablers than the party of opposition.

Because Obama has a "D" in the party affiliation box, he gets a pass, and even defended, by way too many of the Democratic electorate on those piss poor decisions. His "D" fucking legitimizes them. If we couldn't energize congress to oppose the bush administration, when he was obviously a national nightmare, how are we going to organize opposition to the golden one's "piss poor decisions?"