Ellen barely got a word in edgewise, why she was even invited on is beyond me.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/03/pzn.01.html ZAHN: And Candy, we'll be counting on you to keep us posted on all these numbers as they go up and down as this campaign go on. Again, thanks.
Senator Obama's campaign is bringing lots of questions out about race relations right into the open, including the question of whether the senator's church is racist. Senator Obama attends the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's historically black south side. Its Web site used to trumpet the church's commitment to 12 precepts including the black community, the black family, the black work ethic and the black value system. That was before conservative blogger Eric Rush replaced the word "black" with "white" pointing out that no political candidate would ever belong to a church committed to the white community, the white family, the white work ethic and the white value system.
The church quietly revised its Web site. It now speaks of commitment to the historical education of African people and a nonnegotiable commitment to Africa. But Eric Rush's blogging provoked an angry response from "Chicago Sun-Times" columnist Monroe Anderson. He all but accused Rush of playing the race card. Both men join me now.
Great to see both of you. Eric, I want to start out with a statement from the Trinity United Church and what appeared on the Web site when it said, "we are a congregation that is unabashedly black. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expressions of a black worship service and ministries which address the black community." We know that if you feel you replace the word black with white, this is nothing more than a racist statement. How offended do you think people really would be by that?
ERIC RUSH, INTERNET BLOGGER: Well, if it were any other ethnic group, particularly whites, I think that people would be up in arms about it, quite honestly.
ZAHN: And Monroe, why do you think this is playing the race card when you look at the foundations of this church and what it has tried to accomplish over the years?
MONROE ANDERSON, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: OK, there is no white -- white is not an ethnic group. There are Jewish Americans, there are Italian Americans, there are Irish Americans, there are Polish Americans. When you say white, you're talking race. African Americans are an ethnic group. We are the oldest ethnic group in the country and, ironically, one of the newer ones in sense that we've been here since around the time of the Mayflower, but we only became fully vested citizens in 1984 when the voting rights act was passed where we could participate fully in the process.
But we are, in fact, just another ethnic group. So rather than talk about black and white, if you talk about Mexican and African American or Serbian and African-American, then all of this brouhaha that Eric has gone through is for naught. It turns out to be silly.
ZAHN: Eric, let's listen to a second about how Barack Obama defends his church and these harsh attacks on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believed and still believe in the power of the African American religious tradition to spur social change. The black church understands in intimate way the biblical call to feed the hungry and to clothe the naked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So Eric, do you deny that this church is not at all responding to the needs of its community? And what's wrong with that?
RUSH: No, it is responding to the needs of its community. And I think that's commendable. The problem that I had with the -- what I saw on their Web site and the readings of their pastor in and some of the subsequent words that I heard is that they were preferentially giving to the black community. They are, as I said in my article, not afro-centric but African-centric in a time when I think that's divisive. I think that we should really be looking at ourselves as Americans and not giving preferentially to one side.
I think that my colleague Mr. Anderson, you know, when he talks about Mexican Americans and Serbian Americans and et cetera, et cetera, that is a good semantic argument, but it goes against the conventional wisdom in this country that there are monolithic whites as are perceived by most blacks and that blacks are monolithic, too. Also, I have to -
ZAHN: Gentlemen, unfortunately, we've got to move on, because we've got three folks that want to debate with both of you. Thanks so much. In one respect, Senator Obama is pretty typical of most Americans. His church's congregation is almost entirely one single race. It's just one of the ways Americans practice what is called self-segregation. We're bringing that out tomorrow night in a special hour we're calling "divided we stand."
Let's bring our out in the open panel right out right now. CNN contributor Roland Martin, Alan Johnson president of American Atheist. Also Reverend Jesse Lee Peters president and founder of "Brotherhood of Organization of a New Destiny or BOND.
You laughed when you heard Eric try to defend his charge against playing the race card here. You don't think there's any issue of playing the race card?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: First of all Eric is wholly ignorant of the church and what it does. I know Pastor Wright, I've been to the church, I know what the church has done. When you speak from a position of ignorance, that's exactly what happens.
ZAHN: Wait a second. If you were to talk about the goals of the white community, the white work ethic, the sense of white discipline-
MARTIN: We live in a white dominated society. Let's be honest here. People recognize the reality of a black church. This is a black church in a black neighborhood serving black folks. They're serving their members. That's what they're doing. So we have seen African American pastors and churches all over the country be focused on the black community. You have you Latinos who have been focused on the whole issue of illegal immigration. And so we've seen this. This is not something that's rare in America. It's the reality of America.
ZAHN: It is the reality of America, is it not, Reverend?
REVEREND JESSE LEE PETERSON, PRESIDENT OF "BOND": My question is what are black values? What are those values? Why it is that we have a double standard in another country whereas a black liberal male can get away with being a member of a racist church? If Barack Obama is so tied to this preacher that he names his recent book after a sermon that he preached, we saw --
MARTIN: How is the church racist?
ZAHN: Look what happened with Trent Lott. And they ran this guy out of town accusing him of being a racist. They also wish -
ZAHN: Well, we've been trying to debate this. What is so racist about the goals of this church? What is wrong about teaching your community that you should aspire to get a job and support your family and educate your kids?
PETERS: But that's not what they are teaching, they're teaching to hate.
MARTIN: No, they're not. You're wrong, Jesse you haven't been there.
PETERSON: They are teaching to hate. Can we teach white values? You know they also pledge allegiance to the so-called black leaders who espouse black values. Morality has no color. Morality is about treating your fellow man the way you treat yourself, loving God with all your heart, soul and might. Uniting a family, loving your country. This man is a racist. And if Barack Obama supports that, he's a racist as well.
ELLEN JOHNSON, AMERICAN ATHEISTS: You know what's ironic here is that the members of this upper black congregation are prostrating themselves in abject submission to a white man. Jesus, I would like to see Barack Obama or somebody go into that church and tell people that -- physical slavery is over. It is time to get up off their knees and get away from this mental slavery. But you're not going to do that are you, Reverend Peters because you like black people right where they are, on their knees. You want them in submission to the white man, the white Jesus. It is time to get black people up --
PETERSON: You don't believe in God at all so we-
Let me just say there is a double standard. I guarantee you if Barack Obama had been a white man running for president and a member of a racist church, he would not be allowed to run. We saw this same thing with Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton never apologized for the Tawanna Brawley situation in New York.
JOHNSON: That's a different thing.
PETERSON: But because he's black, he's allowed to get away with it.
JOHNSON: You're saying when you talk about whites, you know, that we're monolithic in society, we're the dominant race, why wouldn't you have a problem with a white church would be espousing white family values?
ANDERSON: OK, because it is reality. We are expected to accept what is mainstream. That's the reality.
PETERSON: That is not true. That is absolutely not true.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: One at a time
ANDERSON: First of all there are people who have never been to the church, don't even know what they do. That is the reality. You look at black churches, Hispanic churches, that is what they do. This is America. That is the reality of it.
ZAHN: I have to move on.
PETERSON: Why is Barack Obama backing off then if it's the reality? Why is he backing off?
ANDERSON: Jesse, please.
ZAHN: Roland Martin, Ellen Johnson, Reverend Jesse Lee Patterson-
PETERSON: Peterson.
ZAHN: Peterson. Sorry. I don't want you guys to fight me, too. I'll let you guys go fight. I know what that would spur on. Again, thank you all. "Larry King Live" is coming up in a few minutes but guess what? Larry King won't be there. Lou Dobbs will. Hi Lou, what are you going to do tonight?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi Paula, why don't you lead us all in a chorus of
"Let's Come Together" after all of that.
ZAHN: Do you want to sing "Kumbaya" with me right now?
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