Thank you all - The real next move for gay marriage is not CA, it is DOMA

[Ioo]

I can not tell you how happy I am that so many of you read my story. I did come home last night, and my husband was waiting at the door for me, and it was great we were still married! We were sad because we are now "special" and we do not want to be... We want everyone who wants to get married to get married.

Quickest way to defeat the Right, REPEAL DOMA.
The real battle that needs to be waged is DOMA. You see, DOMA does something that goes further than just stopping gay people from getting married, it strips gay men and women their constitutional rights under the fair faith and credit guaranteed in Article IV, Section 1.

Why is this the next battle front...

When a man and a women go to Ohio and marry, and years later move to Virginia, they are not required to get re-married. The state of Virginia accepts that if Ohio says they are married, then they are. This is with all contracts. For me and my husband, we do not get the same respect, our rights under the fair faith and credit clause is removed from us. My (now rare) CA marriage is not given the same rights as other people's CA marriage.

How does this tie it all up...
If we can get DOMA repealed the marriage battle is over, because you can go to one of the 4 states that do allow marriage and get married, and go home. It is only because of DOMA that they tell you to piss off. The Fair Faith and Credit clause is the key to getting what we want.

I flew to CA to get married, I do not live there. I live in West Virginia! WV does not recognize my marriage, but only because DOMA says they do not have to... So your state does not have to allow gay marriage, but the constitution says it has to recognize those preformed legally in another state... this was a key that our founding fathers put in to stop the very thing we are seeing.

Do not get me wrong, PROP 8 SUCKS ASS (and not in a good way), but if we can repeal DOMA, then the issue of one state allowing marriage and one not becomes MOOT, and from there, everyone will just give up the fight. Think about it... you can go to Mass, get married and fly back to Texas... and Texas has to give you the same rights as they give every other married couple in the state.

DOMA IS THE KEY, THE FAIR FAITH AND CREDIT IS THE LOCK.

[msongs]

1. maybe all glbt Americans should move to Utah and outlaw religious cults. nt

[havocmom]

2. Thank you for guiding those of us who don't have to endure this gross injustice in our marriages.

Your solid, calm, humane voice is a real inspiration, Ioo. Too many of us do not understand enough about the insidious ways inequality is allowed in our nation. Your great posts are a beacon.

We will work to pressure our elected representatives to recognize that MOST Americans do not like legalized inequality. If it is the squeaking wheel that gets the grease, we will make too much noise to be ignored.

I am glad your heart was not completely broken yesterday. And you are to be admired for not adopting the 'I got mine, piss on the rest of you' attitude that is all to common about too many issues.

You, sir are a strong, wise, caring gentleman and your husband is damned lucky to have found you.

Thanks for the inspirations. Keep 'em coming.

hm

[Ioo]

4. Repeal DOMA and the rest falls into place.

Thank you for the kind words. My husband is a saint for putting up with me. I am damned lucky to have found him. When I became disabled while active duty (Don't ask, Don't tell) he was there beside me.

I want everyone to know the joy I had that day..

[havocmom]

5. Three kinds of people: Those who jealously hoard joy and really don't know it.

Those who know true joy and want it shared with as many as are brave enough to taste its sweetness.

Those who are oblivious to the existence of joy,

You are the guy in the middle. Your kind is too few and too far between.

[havocmom]

3. Kick for a great plan of action!

:kick:

[havocmom]

6. another shameless kick to keep in view among all the hype threads today

:kick: because clarity and common sense seems to fall among all the clutter on DU

[havocmom]

7. Kick for the night shift

common people, this is good, common sense plan to really address the problem NATIONWIDE.

[glitch]

8. Missed the R before the 24 hours so here's a K. Damn good idea. nt

[havocmom]

9. glitch, you brought a smile to an old woman's face

It is a GRAND idea, isn't it?

We can do this.

[glitch]

13. We can do anything, old women rock! :) nt

[havocmom]

15. traction, we might just be seeing some traction here

:woohoo:

[tnlefty]

10. It may freak you out to know that as a straight woman

married, and a mother, I watch Gay USA every chance that I get, I also sometimes listen to OutQ on XM, but I really like Gay USA because the hosts talk about initiatives in municipalities and on the state level, etc. I also like the banter between the hosts and guests when they have guests on.

Maybe a year and a half ago, or a little longer, one of their guests was a man for marriage equality in NJ (I think) and the discussion turned to DOMA and then to how civil unions wouldn't bring the same rights as marriage for heteros.

I've never been able to understand how any citizen of the US isn't protected by the Constitution and Bill of Rights so this division of marriage and citizens who can and can't has stupified me from the beginning. Getting rid of DOMA would be a good thing, but applying the equal protection clause should be a given, to me anyway.

[glitch]

11. Totally agreed. It's the equal protection thing, either we've got it or we're bogus.

Also straight, FWIW. And personally against marriage, but am pro-choice on the issue. Human rights are human rights.

[merh]

12. I believe that the lawsuit Olson filed will impact DOMA

Mark your calender, there is a court hearing on the Motion for Preliminary Injunction and the Motion to Intervene filed by Proposition 8 Official Proponents (Alliance Defense Fund - ProtectMarriage.com)

Motion Hearing set for 7/2/2009 10:00 AM in Courtroom 6, 17th Floor, San Francisco.

==============

U.S. District Court
California Northern District (San Francisco)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 3:09-cv-02292-VRW

Perry et al v. Schwarzenegger et al
Assigned to: Hon. Vaughn R. Walker
Demand: $0
Cause: 42:1983 Civil Rights Act
Date Filed: 05/22/2009
Jury Demand: None
Nature of Suit: 440 Civil Rights: Other
Jurisdiction: Federal Question
Plaintiff
Kristin M. Perry represented by Theodore B Olson
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
Washington , DC 20036-5306
202-955-8668
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
LEAD ATTORNEY
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Amir Cameron Tayrani
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
Washington , DC 20036
202-955-8668
Fax: [phone]
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher Dean Dusseault
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
333 S Grand Ave
Los Angeles , CA 90071
213-229-7855
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

David Boies
Boies Schiller & Flexner LLP
333 Main Street
Armonk , NY 10504
914-749-8200
Fax: [phone]
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Enrique Antonio Monagas
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
333 South Grand Avenue
Los Angeles , CA 90071
213-229-7804
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Ethan D. Dettmer
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
333 South Grand Avenue
Los Angeles , CA 90071
213-229-7804
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Matthew Dempsey McGill
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
1050 Connecticut Ave., NW
Washington , DC 20036-5306
202-955-8668
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theane Evangelis Kapur
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
333 South Grand Avenue
Los Angeles , CA 90071
213-229-7804
Fax: [phone]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore J. Boutrous , Jr.
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP
333 South Grand Avenue
Los Angeles , CA 90071-3197
213-229-7804
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore Hideyuki Uno
Boies Schiller & Flexner LLP
333 Main Street
Armonk , NY 10504
914-749-8200
Fax: [phone]
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Plaintiff
Sandra B. Stier represented by Theodore B Olson
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Amir Cameron Tayrani
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher Dean Dusseault
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

David Boies
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Enrique Antonio Monagas
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Ethan D. Dettmer
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Matthew Dempsey McGill
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theane Evangelis Kapur
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore J. Boutrous , Jr.
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore Hideyuki Uno
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Plaintiff
Paul T. Katami represented by Theodore B Olson
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Amir Cameron Tayrani
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher Dean Dusseault
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

David Boies
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Enrique Antonio Monagas
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Ethan D. Dettmer
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Matthew Dempsey McGill
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theane Evangelis Kapur
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore J. Boutrous , Jr.
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore Hideyuki Uno
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Plaintiff
Jeffrey J. Zarrillo represented by Theodore B Olson
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Amir Cameron Tayrani
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher Dean Dusseault
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

David Boies
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Enrique Antonio Monagas
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Ethan D. Dettmer
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Matthew Dempsey McGill
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theane Evangelis Kapur
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore J. Boutrous , Jr.
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Theodore Hideyuki Uno
(See above for address)
PRO HAC VICE
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

V.
Defendant
Arnold Schwarzenegger
in his official capacity as Governor of California
Defendant
Edmund G. Brown, Jr.
in his official capacity as Attorney General of California
Defendant
Mark B. Horton
in his official capacity as Director of the California Department of Public Health & State Registrar of Vital Statistics
Defendant
Linette Scott
in her official capacity as Deputy Director of Health Information & Strategic Planning for the California Department of Public Health
Defendant
Patrick O'Connell
in his official capacity as Clerk-Recorder for the County of Alameda
Defendant
Dean C. Logan
in his official capacity as Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk for the County of Los Angeles

V.
Intervenor Dft
Proposition 8 Official Proponents
Intervenor Dft
Dennis Hollingsworth represented by Timothy D Chandler
Alliance Defense Fund
101 Parkshore Dr., Suite 100
Folsom , CA 95630
916-932-2850
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Intervenor Dft
Gail J. Knight represented by Timothy D Chandler
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Intervenor Dft
Martin F. Gutierrez represented by Timothy D Chandler
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Intervenor Dft
Hak-Shing William Tam represented by Timothy D Chandler
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Intervenor Dft
Mark A. Jansson represented by Timothy D Chandler
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Intervenor Dft
ProtectMarriage.com - Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal represented by Timothy D Chandler
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Date Filed # Docket Text
05/22/2009 1 COMPLAINT for Declaratory, Injunctive or other Relief - against Arnold Schwarzenegger, Edmund G. Brown, Jr, Mark B. Horton, Linette Scott, Patrick O'Connell & Dean C. Logan, Filed by Plaintiffs Sandra B. Stier, Kristin M. Perry, Paul T. Katami & Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Additional attachment(s) added on 5/26/2009: # 1 Complaint) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 2 SUMMONS Issued as to Defendants Arnold Schwarzenegger, Edmund G. Brown, Jr, Mark B. Horton, Linette Scott, Patrick O'Connell & Dean C. Logan. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 3 ADR SCHEDULING ORDER: Joint Case Management Statement due 8/27/2009 & InitialCase Management Conference set for 9/3/2009 at 3:30 PM.. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 4 CERTIFICATION of Interested Entities or Persons Filed by Plaintiffs Sandra B. Stier, Kristin M. Perry, Paul T. Katami & Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 5 APPLICATION of Attorney Matthew D. McGill for Leave to Appear in Pro Hac Vice - Filed by Plaintiffs Sandra B. Stier, Kristin M. Perry, Paul T. Katami & Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 6 Order Granting re 5 Application for Admission of AttorneyPro Hac Vice Submitted by Plaintiffs Sandra B. Stier, Kristin M. Perry, Paul T. Katami & Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/22/2009) (tn, COURT STAFF). (Entered: 05/26/2009)

05/22/2009 CASE DESIGNATED for Electronic Filing. (tn, COURT STAFF) (Entered: 05/26/2009)
05/27/2009 7 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction filed by Sandra B. Stier, Kristin M. Perry, Paul T. Katami, Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. Motion Hearing set for 7/2/2009 10:00 AM in Courtroom 6, 17th Floor, San Francisco. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit Katami Declaration, # 2 Affidavit Perry Declaration, # 3 Affidavit Stier Declaration, # 4 Affidavit Zarrillo Declaration, # 5 Proposed Order Granting Preliminary Injunction)(Boutrous, Theodore) (Filed on 5/27/2009) (Entered: 05/27/2009)

05/28/2009 8 MOTION to Intervene filed by Proposition 8 Official Proponents, Dennis Hollingsworth, Gail J. Knight, Martin F. Gutierrez, Hak-Shing William Tam, Mark A. Jansson, ProtectMarriage.com - Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal. Motion Hearing set for 7/2/2009 10:00 AM in Courtroom 6, 17th Floor, San Francisco. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit C, # 4 Exhibit D, # 5 Exhibit E, # 6 Exhibit F, # 7 Exhibit G, # 8 Exhibit H, # 9 Exhibit I, # 10 Exhibit J, # 11 Exhibit K, # 12 Exhibit L, # 13 Exhibit M, # 14 Exhibit N, # 15 Proposed Order, # 16 Certificate of Service)(Chandler, Timothy) (Filed on 5/28/2009) (Entered: 05/28/2009)

05/28/2009 9 Proposed Intervenors' ANSWER to Complaint byDennis Hollingsworth, Gail J. Knight, Martin F. Gutierrez, Hak-Shing William Tam, Mark A. Jansson, ProtectMarriage.com - Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal. (Attachments: # 1 Certificate of Service)(Chandler, Timothy) (Filed on 5/28/2009) (Entered: 05/28/2009)
05/28/2009 10 Certificate of Interested Entities by Dennis Hollingsworth, Gail J. Knight, Martin F. Gutierrez, Hak-Shing William Tam, Mark A. Jansson, ProtectMarriage.com - Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal (Attachments: # 1 Certificate of Service)(Chandler, Timothy) (Filed on 5/28/2009) (Entered: 05/28/2009)

[havocmom]

17. merh is a resource and DU treasure

as always
:hug:

Bookmarked in my special projects folder!

[merh]

19. It's available to the public, the court dockets like this,

What is PACER?

Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) is an electronic public access service that allows users to obtain case and docket information from Federal Appellate, District and Bankruptcy courts, and from the U.S. Party/Case Index.

A PACER login and password allows access to Federal case and docket information in all approved Federal Judiciary electronic public access programs including PACER, RACER, CM/ECF, and the U.S. Party/Case Index.

https://pacer.login.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/login.pl?court_id=00idx

================

You have to register to get a login and password. You have to give a credit card and your billing information and email. They charge 08 cents a page to view the documents and once you have the document open, you can download it as a pdf file or you can copy the docket as I did and post it in a new document.

I'm going to try to keep up with this. The defendants, all of the California state officials, have not answered yet. I'm curious to see if they do like the intervening defendants answered and just made general denials. Nothing of any substance.

[Mother Of Four]

14. Kicked!

:hug:

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Okay, just KICK!

[cliffordu]

18. tried to wreck, too late, so I'll just kick instead....

[havocmom]

20. Dismantle DOMA!

Traction. Gain ground NATIONALLY. Much more constructive than working to get something on ballot in California in 2010.

[beaglelover]

21. Sounds like a great plan. n/t

.

[havocmom]

22. DOMA = Denial Of Marriage Act

dump DOMA

[AspenRose]

23. Kick.

:kick:

[Control-Z]

24. Too late to Rec.

but not too late to :kick:.

Good OP.

[havocmom]

25. kickity kick kick

maybe more will take action on this idea for making marriage equality real across the nation, not just in California

[annabanana]

26. We can kick this into the weekend for the weekend visitors. . n/t

[annabanana]

27. kickers. . n/t

[annabanana]

28. Saturday Morining Kick. . . n/t

[Iwillnevergiveup]

30. And another one

with pleasure.:kick:

[backscatter712]

29. Can DOMA be overturned in court?

The way I see it, it violates the Equal Protection clause in the 14th Amendment, and it violates the Full Faith & Credit clause.

Any sane judge who actually believed in and enforced the Constitution would strike DOMA down in a heartbeat.

But would we be able to get it struck in SCOTUS? Or would Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito invent some reason to uphold it and get Kennedy to side with them?

[annabanana]

31. It would probably be a hard pull in this court.... The next one?

Who knows.


(also: afternoon kick)

[CTyankee]

32. THANK YOU for this insight! I hadn't realized it but of course, DOMA simply MUST be the next target.

I cannot forgive Bill Clinton for that piece of garbage.

I'm of course in CT and 3 of my grandkids are in MA. They are growing up in an atmosphere of normalcy when it comes to gay marriage. It's not a matter of tolerance and acceptance. It is a matter of what "is." Like the air or gravity, a natural occurrance. Two people love each other and get married, as simple as that.

This is what gives me hope. We WILL see to it that DOMA is repealed. I hope that happens soon...

Tell me what the strategy will be going forward...

[havocmom]

35. Raising hell about it to our elected reps seems a good place to start

Work to raise consciousness about the sham of politicians pandering to wingers on an issue that affects no one but devoted partners who want to be married.

How does someone else's marriage affect mine? It doesn't. But some Americans are denied this Civil Right for the sole reason of letting some religious nuts feel like they saved the world or something. They are few, they are wrong and the politician need to get a spine and stop denying people equality in this nation.

Get the national dialoge going. We KNOW the nation is not in agreement with the far right whack jobs. We KNOW we need to extend rights, not deny them. We make the chatter and get the movement for sanity going to help our brothers and sisters enjoy marriage when they fall in love.

[annabanana]

33. Saturday Evening Kick. . . . n/t

[ZombieNixon]

34. Kick.

This is a very logical and relatively efficient way to approach the problem.

[annabanana]

36. And one big last kick for a Sunday Afternoon!. . . . n/t

[Kaleko]

37. Well, today I've learned something new.

I'd forgotten what DOMA stands for and had to look it up here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

Thank you for this OP, Ioo,
and Havocmom for kicking it with a passion.

Much obliged to you!