President Obama will have to step in on the California mess. He just will.

[cali]

He's not going to have a choice. He can't let CA go down. He can't let people die from lack of services. Inevitably, he'll have to step into that fray.

[NV Whino]

1. We could send him Arnie

[Mythsaje]

2. You're right.

If only to prevent civil unrest.

[stopbush]

3. First step: legalize gay marriage!

If Obama would do that, I'd be very happy here in CA.

[marmar]

10. Yes it should be legalized.....but I don't think that's going to resolve the financial mess.

n/t

[stopbush]

14. I was going for something much easier than fixing the financial mess

so Obama could point to some progress.

[Thickasabrick]

22. It would help. Gay weddings tend to generate lots of revenue...just sayin.

[Thothmes]

93. He does not have the authoriy to legalie gay marriage

As an admirable goal as that may be. He cannot do that.

[WI_DEM]

105. Can Obama do that? is it in his authority?

[KamaAina]

4. CA: Too big to fail?

You make an excellent point.

[NightWatcher]

5. nationalize California? should we make them a territory or a protectorate

[JVS]

81. Grand Duchy!!!

[Taverner]

6. "OBAMA TO CALIFORNIA: DROP DEAD"

This is the headline I fear...

[NightWatcher]

9. As goes GM, goes the country. As goes California so goes the nation...

[Taverner]

41. Yes - that's why hope I don't see that headline

[Captain Hilts]

20. I have the NYDN Headline "Ford to City: Drop Dead

[Taverner]

43. Wow - a collector's item

From what I heard, that kind of encapsulated the way New Yorkers felt the rest of the country felt about them.

True?

[Captain Hilts]

54. Yes. About a week after Sept. 11th, the NYT did a story of how it changed

the country's - i.e flat, red states - view of New Yorkers more favorably.

Folks think New Yorkers are not friendly. They actually are. If you fall in the subway in Manhattan, someone will pick you up, call you a motherfucker, dust you off and make sure you get on the correct train. If you fall in the subway in Toronto, they'll politely say, "such a bad break for you, best of luck getting up" as they step over you and go on their way.

[Taverner]

55. Oh I know NY'ers are friendly

They will talk your ears off actually - whether or not you understand them is a different matter completely :P

[tabasco]

87. Not my experience in Toronto.

Quite the contrary.

Why make stupid generalizations?

[Captain Hilts]

89. Lived there for five years and still go back for chunks of time. Polite, but NOT friendly.

They're kind of known for being stiff and formal in a way that the English and US are not. No one's sure where they get it.

Why do you make such short-tempered responses that make you look stupid?

[jody]

7. Why should the other 49 states bail out a state that mismanaged its financial affairs? n/t

[JuniperLea]

11. I appears it would be the first in many...

CA isn't the only state teetering on the edge of the abyss.

[girl gone mad]

12. But that's the thing..

we don't have the money to bail out all of them.

ETA: unless Pres. Obama wants to end the wars and raises taxes on corporations and the rich, which he clearly doesn't.

[jody]

16. Exactly !!!!!!! n/t

[Telly Savalas]

19. So let's just focus on the ones that are too stubborn to maintain taxes at an appropriate level.

Rich folks in Orange County have decided they don't want to pay enough taxes to fund basic state services. Therefore it's the obligation of middle class Missourians such as myself to shoulder the burden.

[jody]

32. Exactly !!!!!!! n/t

[Forkboy]

38. This helping people shit really pisses me off!

[JuniperLea]

47. Yeah!

I'm with the Republicans on this one... die suckers! :sarcasm:

[KamaAina]

59. Again with the Orange County bashing

My former employer once turned down a job with a much larger agency in OC, because its office was located in the middle of gang turf. Not exactly the stereotypical rich, clubby repuke paradise, eh?

She now lives in a different part of the county, far from gang turf. And she's every bit as progressive as I am. So is one of our most esteemed former DUers, who's there as well.

edit: spelling

[JuniperLea]

62. The OC used to be a Republican stronghold...

Not anymore. Oh, there are still plenty of GOPers, but not as many, and things are changing.

The OC bashing will not stop here, though. I betcha. Too many get stuck on old mouldy meme's and never get around to understanding how things can change.

I live right on the dividing line between the OC and LA County, about five miles north of The Pacific Coast Highway. When you drive from town to town, county to county, you really don't know you've crossed the line unless you know the area. It's not all that different.

[anigbrowl]

65. Actually....

Missouri gets ~$1.32 in federal spending for every dollar of Federal taxes paid. California gets ~$0.80, and it's been in decline since 1980. So in fact, we in CA have been slightly subsidizing Missouri for the last 20 years or so.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

[jody]

I believe those figures include DOD facilities so states with small populations and military bases

may have higher per capita federal spending than CA with its 37 million people even though CA has several major DOD facilities.

[anigbrowl]

84. OK, but a dollar's a dollar. CA is ranked 38th in terms of per capita federal spending

Which is pretty far down the list. I think we're about 9th in terms of federal payment per capita.

[jody]

88. And VA, HI, MD, ME are in the $1.30 to $1.50 range. n/t

[anigbrowl]

113. So? that accounts for some federal spending, but not all.

Besides which, federal spending on defense still generates revenue for the place it is sited at - construction, supply, spending by military personnel, etc.

[Thothmes]

95. Your point is?

My federal tax dollars are routinely taken from me to pay for servics to those folks that need support from the Government. Why sould it be any different for a state. A state needs financial support, itrecives support from the Federal government. Remember, these are tax dollars that the Federal Government is entitled to because of our laws. They are under not constitutional authority to return one red cent of it to the state from whence it was collected.

[Telly Savalas]

101. Is it not the case that California's budget problems are a direct consequence

of Proposition 13 and the unwillingness of the legislature to get taxes to an appropriate level? Californians have been posting here for a few weeks that the anti-tax mob segment of their state has basically brought this situation upon the entire state. Am I supposed to believe that these DUers are wrong, and that the Club for Growth fan club really has the right idea on how to run things?

It's a matter of unwillingness to fund versus inability to fund. I'm pretty sympathetic to the idea of helping people and states that need assistance because they don't have the means to help themselves. But if a state government willfully chooses to dig itself into a hole over the course of a couple of decades and absolutely refuses to do anything about it, then you have to wonder why it's the responsiblity of everyone else to pick up the slack.

The recession has made things tough for states who because of their inability to print money can't really run a Keynesian defecit like the federal government has. Hence it is very appropriate for the federal government to step in and offer assistance to all 50 states. But to give special treatment to a state whose government has systemically chosen to make bad budgetary decisions has the same stench as the bank bailout - it rewards the irresponsible behavior of people who should have the resources to handle their problems.

And don't take this to be blanket California bashing. I'd take Ahnold over other GOP douchebags at the state level across the country (including many in the MO legislature) who think that it's noble to reject stimulus money. And the voters of California have certainly given the rest of the nation a gift with Sen. Boxer.

[anigbrowl]

115. Indeed

You are basically right. Arnold is mediocre governor, but he's a pretty moderate one, and isn't responsible for the 'club for growth' crowd whose malign influence on CA goes back to when Arnold's biggest concern was getting to the gym every day.

The thing about CA is that not only have we dug ourselves into a budgetary hole over recent decades, the way our constitution etc. is set up, that hole was designed to be hard to dig out of. We'd need a 2/3 majority to reverse proposition 13, say. It's a lot easier to get a 2/3 majority for capping or lowering taxes during good times than to get one for raising them in bad times.

Bear in mind that a lot of people who are being hit hard by this weren't even born when laws like proposition 13 were passed. And there are limits to how much Obama can interfere in state politics - imagine the reaction to 'Obama tells CA to rewrite state constitution'.

[anigbrowl]

114. Quite, but now California is among the states that need help.

[Thothmes]

94. So Orange County gets to run the entire State of

California? I would guess that the folks in California have allowed a very fucked up system to evolve, if one county gets to decide the states fate.

[sendero]

35. A lot of people here...

.. just don't get the fact that you just can't print money forever.

The lack of knowledge of economics around here is astounding.

I don't doubt the Federal government will help CA, but CA isn't the only state in trouble but they are certainly among the most irresponsible.

No matter what - CA is going to be in trouble and the state budget is going to get drastically cut, the Fed just can't print trillions more play money.

[Forkboy]

21. Because it's one country, not just 50 states.

[jody]

27. Sorry, each state is responsible for managing its government. n/t

[JuniperLea]

30. Do you realize how the rest of the 49 would suffer...

Without the tax revenue CA provides?

[jody]

31. Prove your assertion. n/t

[JuniperLea]

34. You really don't already know this?

Fed income tax alone:

California's Top Individual Income Tax Rate Is the Highest in the Nation
With seven brackets and a top rate of 10.3 percent for those earning over $1,000,000. California's individual income tax has the second-highest rate and one of the most highly progressive structures in the nation. In 2006, California's individual income tax collections were $1,418 per person, which ranked 6th highest nationally. Since most small businesses are S Corporations, partnerships, or sole proprietorships, they pay their business taxes at the rates for individuals. That makes California's taxes on small businesses some of the most burdensome in the nation.
50-State Table of Individual Income Tax Rates
50-State Table of State Individual Income Tax Collections
50-State Table of State and Local Individual Income Tax Collections Per Capita

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html

Corporations pay more too:

California's Corporate Income Tax Rate is the Highest in the West
Corporations looking to relocate, or even establish, a business in the West may shy away from California, as the state's 8.84% flat rate is the highest corporate tax rate in the West. Nationally, only eight states have a higher top corporate tax rate than California. In 2007, state-level corporate tax collections (excluding local taxes) in California were $307 per capita, which ranked 6th highest nationally.
50-State Table of Corporate Income Tax Rates
50-State Table of State and Local Corporate Income Tax Collections Per Capita and Per Household
50-State Table of State Corporate Income Tax Collections Per Capita

This really is common knowledge.

[jody]

37. Sorry, those stats do not prove "how the rest of the 49 would suffer ...

Without the tax revenue CA provides".

What the situation shows is that CA spends more than it takes in from taxes.

Reminds me of thousands of CA home owners who financed houses they could not afford and now want people who lived within their salaries to bail them out.

Why doesn't CA cut its bloated government employee salaries and then we can talk about CA's problem?

[JuniperLea]

44. Ah... I see...

All of us Californians are just lazy, stupid moochers, and we're looking for a handout. Gotcha. Pay no mind to the fact that millions of us are suffering through no fault of our own... millions of us who have owned our homes for years and years and are now seeing the value of our homes cut in half or worse. Yeah, what a bunch of idiots.

[jody]

49. IMO self-deprecation will not win CA support from many states. You might ask for

help from the unemployed in such cities as Detroit.

[JuniperLea]

51. I see... it's not your fault that the US as a whole is swirling the drain...

You can't be held accountable for the US budget, but you feel Californians should be held accountable for theirs. Sure, we have so much more control over government.

[jody]

56. The OP issue is bailout for CA. That state has not managed its financial affairs and there is no

indication its legislature can use bailout funds wisely.

[JuniperLea]

58. All states are hurting... and the nation as a whole...

Yet you seem to be able to determine who should and who should not be held accountable, or is worthy of help. Curious.

[jody]

61. Do you have an intelligent comment to #58? n/t

[JuniperLea]

66. I'll give it when you answer #52...

Which you avoided by going back to the OP, when the question was clearly about your post and this conversation.

[jody]

67. #52 is not a question, just your personal opinion. So what? n/t

[JuniperLea]

69. And you have no comment with regard to your cherry picking...

As noted in said comment?

[jody]

72. Have a good day and good bye. n/t

[JuniperLea]

80. Can't huh? You clearly don't understand the domino effect...

What do you suppose is going to happen in all 50 states when people start asking for their property taxes to be reassessed? All states are going to lose at least 50% of that revenue.

But you just go ahead and keep thinking in those little terms. I'll remember when you are hit... it won't be long... two states are in trouble now... CA and HI... yours could be next. I'll not cry for you either. Karma, you know.

[varelse]

97. I hear tell that Florida's in some pretty deep shit too

and Ohio, and Michigan aren't exactly wallowing in roses.

[JuniperLea]

104. Yep...

Every day there's another mention of another state slipping into the red. People need to mind their Karma bank and stop bashing CA because their state is likely next.

[Statistical]

99. Then CA should DO THE RIGHT THING

cut services
raise taxes
or more likely BOTH

don't try the hostage tactic like the used for the banks.

FIX IT!

We manage to balance our budget in VA.
So do the majority of states.

CA budget has increased 50% in last 6 years.

50 FRIGGIN %.

If they simply went back to 2003 budget it would cut the shortfall in half.

Then do a 5% across the board cut and raise taxes to make up the difference.

CA is acting like drunk teenagers with a charge card.
They want every service under the sun and don't want to pay for it.

Last week CA announced a $9 MILLION GUN BUYBACK PROGRAM.

How can a broke state spend $9 million to buy back guns.
How many teachers or cops would $9 million pay for?

[JuniperLea]

108. In case you haven't noticed...

We have a Republican comic book hero as Gov... I'm pretty well sick of people here going for the jugular on CA residents! Most of us would gladly pay more taxes and cut the fat in the budget. You tell me how, umkay? You tell me how to get all that done. Everyone is gung ho to tell us WHAT to do, but no one has a clue as to HOW to do it given the current political makeup of our state government.

[Forkboy]

36. Do you believe their should be no federal aid of any sort to any state?

No stimulus money to your state for any reason? If you say yes and mean it than you're lying and/or posturing to both of us.

May others find more empathy for you if you ever need it that you've discovered for others so far.

[jody]

39. Sorry, the issue is what CA did or didn't do to create their financial problem. I don't believe in

bailouts for any state or company or person until they produce a plan to get their financial affairs in order.

It's no secret that CA's legislature has refused to do its job.

It's up to CA voters to make their representatives do their jobs before asking taxpayers from other states for help.

[Name removed]

Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

110. And my questions relate exactly to that.

Attitudes like yours are not helpful and must be addressed if we're to function as a united country. And if your beliefs are consistent, then you should have no problems answering my questions and brushing them away. Of course, if they aren't consistent I can see why you avoided them, as it pretty much destroys your whole point about people taking care of themselves.

Right?

[cali]

46. do you understand who will suffer and die if there isn't a bail out of some sort?

let me spell it out for you: the poorest, the elderly, children, those with AIDS, the disabled. If you're fine with that, well, I don't know what to say to you.

[jody]

53. Do you know that every state has people who will suffer? First admit that CA can't manage its govt.,

then give up all state sovereignty and become a ward of the federal government like Government Motors, et al corporations.

[CreekDog]

25. because it's more costly to those other 49 NOT TO

and California is a net exporter of tax revenue (to other states).

so, common sense is the answer.

[JuniperLea]

28. There you have it...

CA puts a lot of money into the national budget, and we take back the least.

[jody]

29. Please prove its more costly to let CA pay its debts. n/t

[JonQ]

48. Will that hold true

if the feds end up propping them up? That means their debt and expenses now through the end of the recession.

Right now they're starting to make hard choices to cut back their budget because otherwise they go bankrupt, I doubt that will continue if the government says not to worry, all your debt will be taken care of.

Bailouts don't tend to encourage financial responsibility.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. I don't hear anyone from the suburbs of CA (AKA the other 48 contiguous states)

screaming about the FIFTY BILLION dollars they just spent on GM, in order to save a few thousand jobs...

But FUCK CA though, right?

[jody]

45. " I don't hear anyone"! Then haven't been reading or listening to the news for several years. n/t

[JuniperLea]

50. Sad, huh?

We can't hold that poster accountable for the stupidity that has been the US budget, but CA residents are damn well going to be held accountable!

Right... oh, the stupidity.

[Thickasabrick]

74. Isn't California one of the biggest contributors to the tax coffers especially

in comparison to states like Alabama, Mississippi, Alaska, etc. I really wish people would quit beating up on California.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

8. And. Do. What. Exactly?

There isn't a whole lot he can do to help us,

[bluestateguy]

13. and then what happens when all the other states start lining up for help?

Does he help them too, or is California special? Or maybe some states get help (Michigan, blue states, swing states, etc.) and other states are told to drop dead (red states)?

I'm not sure he can use TARP money to bailout states, and there is no way the votes are there in Congress to pony up money for state bailouts.

[rucky]

15. How much in stimulus have we sent them so far?

[anigbrowl]

76. $13b

http://www.recovery.ca.gov/
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/investments-state

[JuniperLea]

17. I'm heartbroken about our National Parks...

If we let them go unattended, they will be thrashed and there will be no going back. If we cut funding from the budget, we'll never get it back.

Beauty and history, sacrificed.




I'm particularly fond of Bodie, and Mammoth Lakes. I've hiked nearly all of the trails near Mammoth, and I've spent a lot of time photographing Bodie. I'm so very, very sad. This just can't happen. Where is Huell Howser when you need him?

[CreekDog]

26. You meant "State Parks" not national parks

I think.

I think it would be a travesty to close them.

[JuniperLea]

33. Yes, in looking over the list...

We have many National and State parks... some co-existing one within the other.

[Captain Hilts]

18. Yes, I think you're right. I've no clue how, though. nt

[global1]

23. Didn't Enron Start The Snowball Rolling Downhill In California?......

And who was in bed with Enron?

My feeling is that the Repugs & their friends like Enron - with BushCo's approval - started the crisis that now has festered into today's cratering of California.

Sure - run the Dem Governor out of office and put in an Repug 'actor' (shades of Reagan) to further help California's downfall along.

Now all of a sudden - Arnold is trying to buddy up to the Dems and Obama.

I don't have any solutions for California and sure feel for the people of the state - but this again is an inherited problem tossed in the lap of Obama - and guess who they will try to pin the blame on?

[Captain Hilts]

68. It accellerated the roll. nt

[bridgit]

85. check, check & check!

[Xithras]

24. California is unrecoverable without a major overhaul.

The only solution Obama could offer is a loan to cover the budget deficit for the current year. This time next year, we'd be looking at the exact same cuts. Without a major financial overhaul, the State of California would be permanently dependent on annual federal handouts just to stay solvent. The entire nation would be permanently underwriting the bad spending habits of Californians.

The state needs to overhaul its laws, taxing rules, and spending priorities to ensure that it's bringing in enough revenue to cover its expenses. There's no need for a state with the worlds fifth largest economy to be dependent on handouts from taxpayers in flyover country.

[jody]

60. Posters up-thread will ignore your logic. n/t

[JVS]

75. exactly

[anigbrowl]

79. California does need reform, but...

I love how you gloss over the fact that CA has historically paid a lot more in federal taxes than it has received in federal spending. In general, money leaves CA and goes to 'flyover country' as you refer to it.

[JuniperLea]

83. CA won't be the only state to suffer soon...

When property owners begin asking that their prop taxes be reassessed.

[Thothmes]

100. Federal taxes have nothng to do with the current CA situation

Even if the Feds did not collect one red cent of taxes in CA, the budget problem would be the same. Cost of State Government goes up. Money is needed to pay the bills. 1), The state legislature does not want to cut spending, 2), cannot raise taxes without 2/3 majority of the legislature approving. The state of California does not have an entitlement to a single penny of the money that is collected by the Federal Government.

[Cleita]

42. What can he do, make Arnie resign?

Reverse all the laws that got us here? I don't have any ideas. Katrina vanden Heuvel of "The Nation" said today on the radio that we are a failed state and that it all began with Prop. 13, which I have always been suspicious was at the beginning of our problems. Maybe that's where we or he should start.

[elocs]

52. Unless the state of California, their governor and legislature asks, I don't see it happening.

It's one thing to bail out a corporation, but another to bail out an entire state. The state has to ask for help from Obama first.

[Lorien]

57. "He can't let people die from lack of services" Yeah. Right.

He already is by taking single payer off the table:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5752061&mesg_id=5752061

[jody]

63. It's not fair to use facts against hysterical rants. n/t

[cali]

73. nothing hysterical about it, sweetie. simply my best guess.

and I don't live in CA, so it's not out of direct selfpinterest.

[jody]

78. Your logic is underwhelming. n/t

[cali]

71. sorry. he never put it on the table. and he's trying to expand healthcare coverage

not limit it- even if it's not single payer. CA is cutting people off of their AIDS drugs. They're going to cut a million children off from healthcare coverage.

[Blue_Tires]

64. what could he realistically do? OTHER than scratch out a big check?

and i hate to be that "it's-your-mess-so-deal" guy, but it is impossible for me (granted, an east-coaster) to figure how a state with so much education, people, industry, natural resource and wealth ended up in this mess, much less WHY, other than their immense size, they are more deserving of that big check before, say Michigan...

Californians happily voted in the current governor and legislature...If I were Obama, I'd only act if the people had a Bastille Party and started storming the governor's mansion...

[JVS]

70. Don't bet on it.

The federal government doesn't have more money laying around (everything we spend currently is being taken out as more debt), and there are many states poorer than CA that would line up for money too if he were to bail CA out. It's Ahnuld's job to protect people from death due to lack of services. In fact, for Obama, intervention could be a very politically costly move.

[Mike 03]

77. I agree, this is most likely.

But it also holds true for other states as well.

Georgia
Florida
Nevada
Arizona

And some others too.

[JuniperLea]

82. When people across the country start requesting that their property taxes...

Be reassessed due to loss of value, it's going to hit every state, and hard.

[bridgit]

86. Repeal Prop 13! Then tell Grover Norquist he *has* no business in California

http://repealprop13.org

[JuniperLea]

90. I think the vast majority of the recipients must surely be dead by now...

All of the retired folks I know who benefited are long gone. This was done in the 70's, and those people were in their 60's back then. I don't think we should take that away from people in their 90's, really, they won't be around much longer and Prop 13 benefits are not transferable. I'm betting it would be more work than it's ultimately worth, dollar for dollar.

[ContinentalOp]

98. Huh? Everybody who bought before the recent real-estate bubble benefits.

Some of our neighbors who bought their houses just 10 years before us paid probably less than half of what we did. The real solution is that we need to meet somewhere halfway in the middle. People who are paying property tax rates based on 80s, 70s or 60s values should be paying a little more than they do now. People who bought during the recent bubble should probably be paying a little less than we are now. And corporations and non-primary residences should be paying a LOT more.

[JuniperLea]

107. That has nothing to do with Prop 13

That has to do with the fluctuation in the housing market. When value goes up, prop taxes go up. Of course someone who bought 10 years ago pays less in taxes. Just wait until all those people get their taxes reassessed down to the current market value. The loss of revenue will make the Prop 13 issue disappear.

[bridgit]

109. What people? Prop 13 is keyed most heavily on commercial/industrial...

not even residential per se; it was a vehicle for property owners read here: people making money off of other people's money and labors i.e. sweat shop operators in LA's garment district and slum lords, Chevron El Segundo - people like that; to pay factors less than their fair share of property taxes for no-less than two reasons, 1) this particular brand of property owner wants their reduced taxes to pay for their condo in Maui, their stock portfolio, donations to targeted politicians, tuition to the finest universities, and any other escapades they're able to squeeze out thusly on their own behalf, and 2) it pissed them off to be seen paying into a system they had no intent of participating in i.e. America, and the republic for which it stands in the form of a social network, but yeah...

California is a sweet gig if you're on the right side of it

[depakid]

91. Not really much he can do- the situation's not sustainable

and won't be until Califonians somehow fix the structural impediments that keep the state from engaging in responsible policy and budgeting.

[LanternWaste]

92. I hope he does...

I hope he does.

It will be an interesting summer in regards to watching the political and financial maneuvering on the part of both the state and the feds to prevent California from going belly-up. My gut tells me things will reach almost crisis proportions before CA becomes solvent again. OTOH, I can't see Obama sitting idly by and doing nothing while the people go without basic services-- that's not who he is, and that's certainly not who we are (well, most of us...)

I hope it doesn't get too bad. Unlike some of my more self absorbed brethren on this same thread, I feel that if it affects one state, it affects us all-- we all help, we all share, we all sacrifice... together.

And the cries of "I've already helped you guys out too much-- when do I get mine?" sound little more to me than another tired stanza from the Trendy & Cynical Free-Market Top-40.

[varelse]

96. I hope he will keep one foot free (nt)

[MadHound]

102. There's one condition I would like to see attached to any Federal bailout

Get rid of Prop. 13. That's what got you guys into this fucked up place, and I don't care how much money is thrown at the problem, until you get rid of Prop. 13, nothing else will be solved.

If you don't want to get rid of Prop. 13, then frankly the state should sink under the weight of its collective stupidity.

[Luminous Animal]

106. We can't get rid of prop 13 until we get rid of the 2/3rds

vote that is required to raise or implement new taxes. And getting rid of 2/3rds vote is not going to happen when we have just enough anti-tax Republicans in our legislature and in our state that will mobilize to block reform.

We are over a barrel that was built incrementally with no far-sightedness beyond each proposition and each election.

We need a Constitutional Convention with the goal of rebuilding from the bottom up rather than simply tinkering with our broken system.

I think California would benefit with a parliamentary system and instant run-off voting.

[cally]

103. Maybe guarantee federal loans AFTER the government enacts a budget

California has a broken budget system. The Republicans and Democrats can't agree on a realistic budget. It takes 2/3 vote in the Legislature to pass a budget, raise taxes or fees, or change many budget items. The Republican strategy over the last many years is to hold out and prevent any revenue increases and the Democratic strategy is to limit service cuts. As a result, there is no mechanism to cut or reduce programs or increase taxes. I think we will have to live with some draconian cuts and suffer the consequences for awhile before the electorate finally decides to raise taxes and change our state constitution to make a saner budget process.

What I'm hearing is that many are rumbling that all state colleges and universities will be closed for the upcoming fall semester. Prisoners will be released but remember we have the insane three strikes law and a very high incarceration rate. We need to review the entire incarceration strategy in this state so maybe after the crisis we will begin to come up with saner policies.

I don't want the fed to bail us out until we solve the procedural problems and come up with a workable government.

[Romulox]

111. California = the GM of states. Force it into bankruptcy, and break their civil service unions! nt

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

112. He's already declined.

Washington declines to help California, at least for now
Administration officials say the state can do more to solve the budget crisis on its own, they don't have the authority to help -- and if they did, it would set a dangerous precedent.
By Peter Nicholas and Richard Simon

May 22, 2009

Reporting from Washington — California needs to solve its financial crisis by itself and should not expect an emergency bailout from the White House, an array of Obama administration officials said Thursday, making clear they had no appetite to step in and provide financial assistance or loan guarantees.

"Look, we're going to examine what we can do. What we need to do, however, is to treat states fairly and that means uniformly," David Axelrod, senior advisor to the president, said in an interview. "Whatever we do for one state, there will be other states who also will want to do that. And there's a limit to what the government can do."

Axelrod indicated that federal intervention on California's behalf would set a dangerous precedent.

"There's no doubt that there are states all over this country who have problems -- not problems the size of California -- but significant problems. And every governor in the country wants and needs assistance," he said.

It is exceedingly rare for the federal government to help a state weather a short-term cash crisis such as the one California faces, administration officials said.

Even if the president were to make an exception for California, the aid would need to come on unattractive terms so as not to send a message that distressed states can expect Washington to engineer a painless rescue.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-loans22-2009may22,0,2507745,print.story

[opihimoimoi]

116. $$85 Billion Industry stands by as rescue plan....Hemp and MJ produce big bucks and is not taxed,

but worse...violators are incarcinated into costly prisons ....

Release the tokers and reduce prison expenditures...

Open leagal Smoking lounges and tax them exotic doobies from around thw World...

Its a 2 fer....doesn't come better than that very often...When will common sense be released from bondage...?