my 19 yr old grand Niece's Fetus died at 6 months in the South.no doctor would touch her. she went

[sam sarrha]

nearly 5 weeks with the dead fetus in her womb. a poverty stricken, frightened, uneducated girl cried for over a month because the Fuck'n GOP can't run a god damned election on rational truth, they have to create an emotional firestorm over a mole hill. her grand father finally drove her north to a hospital where she was immediately whisked away to emergency surgery, the fetus had calcified into a stony mummy.

she was physically harmed by the event and can not have children now, she also was tragically and severely emotionally damaged. funny how one doctor after another had to go on vacation in the bible belt. none had the decency to just say go somewhere else.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Every anti-choice believer

should know about this and about what has happened to a young girl.

Oh, who am I kidding?

They don't care. Maybe that's the worst thing about them.

They really don't care.....................

[Hepburn]

5. Oh, they care alright...

...but they care that they can keep a woman pregnant and under control and let a pregnancy like that continue because after all a pregnancy is a punishment for having sex.

Gawd...what the hell have we allowed to come into being in this nation? Those who would allow a young woman to exist in this tragic medical condition so they can tout their right to life stance????

Fuck them...:grr:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. Think about this -

how many acts of violence have been perpetrated on anti-choice people by pro-choice people?

None?

I'd venture that as a guess...........................

[Hepburn]

19. I know of none....

...but then WE care about life...they don't. Their only care is about the pre-born...apparently!

:hi:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. I'm pre-dead ..........

Think they care about me?

:hi:

[Hepburn]

23. Only if you are a pre-dead...

...fetus!

:hi:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. If I shave my head,

and soak in a tub for a couple of hours, well, it'd be a start...........

:toast:

[Hepburn]

25. My second latte spew today!

:rofl:

[stevietheman]

38. or even post-dead fetus... as long as you're in the womb. n/t

n/t

[LiberalFighter]

78. There's a marketing idea. Sell wombs to wanna be fetuses.

Now I don't mean real wombs but pretend wombs with an umbilical cord too.

Have a sale at a reduced price to Anti-Abortionists for $2,500.

[astroBspacedog]

93. This is sickening !!

But I guess I must be a little warped myself, --- because I'm laughing my head off and almost spilled my Ovaltine.

[LiberalFighter]

95. Just to clarify the womb would not be made from placenta or any other part of a real womb.

[get the red out]

97. That fetus was dead

They cared more about a dead fetus than a living woman.

That says it all.

[marshall]

66. Some violence, but nothing that rises to the level of killing

http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13694

[BanzaiBonnie]

94. that's a terrible thing to have happened, but

calling themselves sidewalk counselors is a crock.

Calling women whores, satan, baby-killer is not counseling. Shoving pictures of aborted fetuses in their face is not counseling.

[Seldona]

96. Agreed.

Sidewalk counselors my ass. Of the two times I have encountered these people, one actually resulted in my daughter needing therapy. I had her at work with me that day, and they camped right in front of our store. The pictures she saw gave her nightmares for months. I am sure they are thrilled.

Then they would come into the store, carrying their signs! I don't care about money that much. That really got them concentrated in front and back. Fortunately my customers could have given a shit. But they tried to shut us down for the day just for disagreeing with them, and we had nothing to do with any sort of woman's service. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[defendandprotect]

117. Patriarchy re-establishing itself thru violence . . .and thru the GOP . . .

after the sexual revolution of the 1960's . . .

That revolution was about more than sex --

Civil rights, of course --

it was about natural health care - having babies at home --
preventive health care -- the reality that plants are our drugs --
Fresh foods -- good by cans.
Challenges to capitalism -- which we are really seeing right now.
Ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and
resources of a nation from the many to the few.
Challenges to authority -- especially organized patriarchal religion!

This is their insane violent response to the rise of women --

They would sooner see the world destroyed than give up trying to control
women and nature!

There is only one way that the right can rise -- lies, propaganda and violence --
and stolen elections which seem to go back to mid-1960's/late 1960's.

[KakistocracyHater]

54. litho-pedia, or 'stone baby'

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,891848,00.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/stone-baby-pics

I saw on some show a woman who had carried a dead baby for something like 40 YEARS!

[SkyIsGrey]

74. Will not happen.

Trying to convince people that never deal with logic or reason would be near impossible, the very few that might be converted will be outweighed by the ones that never will. They will believe what ever they are told to believe and just push any factual information to the side if it interferes with those beliefs, just like the one in the OP.

[defendandprotect]

116. They don't care - that's patriarchy . . .

however, as we've just seen with Cheney protecting his own . . . re his

gay daughter . . . not until it is happening to someone in their family---

[myrna minx]

2. This is why the pithy dismissive anti choice arguments enrage me so.

These women and girls are real people with real health problems--not some hypothetical fantasy. My heat breaks for your grand niece. :cry:

[hedgehog]

3. That doesn't make any sense at all. Is it even medically termed an abortion if

the fetus is dead of natural causes? I wonder if this had more to do with money than anything else.

On edit : I can see the possibility of waiting a day or so, maybe up to a week to see if labor would start spontaneously, but this is malpractice!

[eleny]

7. Sounds like the doctors just didn't give a crap about the real circumstance

[Luminous Animal]

22. Because there are very few doctors left in the U.S.

who:
1) know how to perform D&Es because very few are trained in the procedure
and
2) those who still know how to preform them and still practice tend to get killed

[colinmom71]

36. Technically, yes it is still an abortion...

While the fetus has died, the pregnancy is still active and an abortion is purposely ending a pregnancy with the expected result being a dead fetus. Now, in cases of a fetal demise, insurance companies consider it a medically justified procedure since the pregnant woman is at risk for sepsis should the demised fetus turn necrotic. In fact, I'm lucky to have one of the few insurance coverages that covers abortion under any circumstance, even an elective first trimester procedure.

Most doctors would likely offer to induce labor within a few days of the fetal demise diagnosis to prevent the risk of infection. And yes, the few days wait is to see if the woman goes into labor herself. Plus an early induction offers the patient a chance to deliver her baby and have an intact body for burial and remembrance purposes. But in some cases, a surgical abortion may be necessary, usually for the same reasons a doctor may recommend an ID&X for a termination - health issues on the part of the pregnant woman.

[Shell Beau]

59. Seems strange for sure. Not sure what the south has to do with it either.

If the fetus was dead, they usually make you deliver it. I know 2 people who had to deliver dead fetuses.

[xxqqqzme]

67. Yes, when I lived in West Virginia,

a good friend's daughter in law feared her fetus had died as she had felt no movement for a couple of days. A doctor confirmed her fears. She was told to go home & come back when she went into labor. I was appalled to hear this. I could not imagine the anguish that poor women endured.

[Shell Beau]

69. Sounds like a shitty doctor. Nothing to do with WV unless y'all have

lots of shitty doctors.

The two girls that I know who had to do this were dealt with immediately.

[japple]

82. I'm in Georgia and I work in the OR of a hospital. We do

D & Cs for women with fetal demise quite frequently.

[pnwmom]

107. Smaller towns are the worst. What sort of area do you work in? n/t

[japple]

151. It's an Adventist hospital in a small (12,000-/+) town in

North Georgia. There are jackboots, Klan remnants and other white supremacy groups in this area. Verrrrry conservative.

[pnwmom]

106. There are more fundamentalists and anti-abortion people in the South.

That's what the South has to do with it.

[Shell Beau]

129. Oooh! Mmmkay.

:eyes:

[pnwmom]

138. The top ten most religious states, according to Gallup, are all in the South.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114022/State-States-Importance-Religion.aspx

Overall, 65% of Americans say religion is an important part of their daily lives
by Frank Newport

This is the second in a four-part series on the "State of the States" being released this week on Gallup.com. The series examines state-by-state differences in party affiliation, religiosity, consumer confidence, and employer hiring and letting go, based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking data collected throughout 2008.

PRINCETON, NJ -- An analysis of more than 350,000 interviews conducted by Gallup in 2008 finds Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, Louisiana, and Arkansas to be the most religious states in the nation. Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, and Massachusetts are the least religious states.

SNIP

The question of why residents of some states (e.g., Mississippi and other Southern states) are highly likely to report that religion is an important part of their lives, while residents of other states (e.g., Vermont and other New England states) are much less likely to report the same is fascinating, but difficult to answer simply.

Differing religious traditions and denominations tend to dominate historically in specific states, and religious groups have significantly different patterns of religious intensity among their adherents. The states have differing racial and ethnic compositions, which in turn are associated with differing degrees of religiosity. Certain states may attract in-migrants with specific types of religious intensity. In addition, there may be differing "state cultures" that are themselves associated with life approaches that give varying degrees of credence to religion as a guiding force.

SNIP

[Shell Beau]

139. I could understand that if this was aborting a viable pregnancy.

But removing a dead fetus from a woman is a different deal. I am not saying this doesn't happen, but I know of situations here in MS where both women were rushed in to get the dead baby out. I also had 2 ectopic pregnancies that had to be dealt with because they were not viable. There was never any issue at all with it. And mine was done at Baptist Hospital.

I see where the religious states may be anti-abortion. That isn't what this deals with IMO. I think either it was a crappy doctor or they didn't have an expert on hand to do the procedure.

[pnwmom]

141. But you've uncovered the problem in your own response.

Carrying out an abortion -- even ending a pregnancy with a fetus that has already died -- requires SKILL. Doctors who are skilled in abortion procedures -- especially late abortion procedures -- don't tend to practice in areas of the country where they not wanted. And much of the South has become a very unwelcome place for doctors who practice abortion.

[Shell Beau]

143. But still I know 2 people who have had it done. And I am about as south

as it gets. So they are around.

[pnwmom]

148. Did your friends live in a major city? If not, they were lucky. n/t

[Shell Beau]

150. No. And I think they would have gotten the same care anywhere in the state.

[Sigh Sister]

87. As a labor and delivery nurse, I can tell you that this

definitely sounds like a malpractice suit.

[Midlodemocrat]

119. Every waiting room in the country states if you are in labor you are to be treated.

This makes no sense.

[defendandprotect]

133. No ...this is traditional .....the actress Debbie Reynolds had TWO of these pregnancies...

I'm repeating this story again because evidently a lot of people don't realize

how common it was that women were carrying around DEAD fetusus!!!

The first time, I think the fetus was dead at 7.5 or 8 months ---

Reynolds did become pregnant again -- but this time the fetus was dead earlier --

and she carried it around for two months or more!

Needless to say, the second pregnancy failed in large part because she was forced

to carry the first one around. Her system was depleted and she was unable to

support the pregnancy.

Not that all that long ago, folks!!!

[bbinacan]

4. Where in the South?

I'm sorry about your niece but don't make blanket accusations about the South. Where are you from?

[michreject]

15. Does it matter

It looks to me like a bouncy to slam the South.

[MagickMuffin]

6. How tragic that this young woman had to deal with this for 5 weeks

I can't begin to think of what an emotional ordeal this had to be. It boggles the mind that NO doctor would do anything about this.

Did they expect her to carry a dead fetus to term, even though it WAS dead?.?.?

Did they NOT think of the consequences of the life of the mother?.?.?

These people are twisted in their logic.

Sorry your niece had to endure this kind of trauma. :cry:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Luminous Animal]

11. Really?

Read this Ms Magazine by Martha Mendoza in which she relates how impossible it was to get a doctor to abort a dead fetus.

http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2004/womanandherdoctor.asp

[Skittles]

9. ?

I can't imagine that "no doctor would touch her" - this sounds like BS

[Luminous Animal]

13. Why don't you do a little research before you cast judgement.

http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2004/womanandherdoctor.asp

[Skittles]

16. I've lived in the south for over 30 years

it sucks but there are decent doctors around

[Luminous Animal]

18. Very only few doctors left who are trained in D&Es

That is why Tiller was so valuable. Hospitals rarely teach the procedure anymore and nearly every other doctor (now mostly old men) who know how, no longer will do them because of death threats. Because, quite clearly, doctors who perform D&Es are murdered.

[Midlodemocrat]

122. Wrong. Every GYN is trained in D&Es. Every single one.

They aren't that different than a D&C.

[sam sarrha]

137. IT WOULD BE A D&X, . called a partial birth abortion..

[Luminous Animal]

21. For the record, I know that there are decent doctors in the south.

But D&Es are surgery and one would need a skilled and practiced surgeon to perform the procedure.

[Shell Beau]

61. That isn't the only procedure either. I have known 2 girls who had

to deliver dead babies.

[Richard Steele]

40. Sounds more like you've lived in "the South" for ONE YEAR , over 30 times.

And that one year hasn't EVER involved anyone you know
needing emergency abortion-related procededures, now has it?

[Skittles]

41. actually, I've known two

but I do live in a metroplex

[Richard Steele]

42. Well, I suppose that Ivory tower you live in must offer a fine view of your metroplex...

Because anyone who says this story "smells like BS"
must be decades away from any actual contact
with those of us who live here at Ground Level.

North, South, East or West: that story happens
to someone in the USA EVERY FUCKING DAY.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

49. what are you gonna do, threaten to kick his ass over the internet?

:rofl:

[Shell Beau]

60. There are tons of decent doctors around.

And I don't know of any doctor that wouldn't want to get a dead fetus out of a woman. I am with you.

[The Doctor.]

89. The geographical composition of medical professionals and ethical standards is labyrinthine at best

To say nothing of the interplay of insurance industry meddling.

It is not uncommon for a person to become lost in a circuit of standards favoring caution over compassion.

[SemperEadem]

81. names? Phones numbers to them?

exactly who and where are they, since you're so convinced that they do exist.

[aquart]

77. That sounds like the truth. Terrorists have successfully terrorized the medical profession.

And our terrorist terrified government has done nothing to stop it.

[Rage for Order]

114. I agree

It makes no sense that a doctor would be worried about removing a dead fetus from a woman's uterus due to the abortion debate. Why not go to the ER and complain of severe stomach pains and try to get the procedure done at the local hospital? At the very least wouldn't they have told her to wait a few days to see if she went into labor, and told her to come back on a certain date if she had not gone into labor yet?

:shrug:

Even the most extreme anti-abortion people wouldn't have a problem with this; I've always heard that their problem with abortion was their belief that one is taking an innocent human life, but if the fetus is dead then that obviously no longer applies.

[Midlodemocrat]

121. Right there with you, sweetie.

Doesn't sound right to me at all.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. "god's will" no doubt.

blech.

That poor girl. Suffering because adults around her were afflicted by the religious disease.

[HockeyMom]

12. They want nothing to do with dead fetuses (or embroys)

even ones resulting from natural causes. That is the mindset. It is too close for comfort for them to an abortion.

I experienced this with my 5 week ruptured ectopic pregnancy in a "christian" hospital in NYC. I am sure my doctor wrote his diagosis on my chart. They didn't want to hear it. I was told, "We don't do abortions here." "We will give you something to stop the bleeding." A pill is going to make a ruptured fallopian tube stop bleeding and heal?

You have to understand this to understand THEM.

[Maraya1969]

44. What did you do after that? I believe that a ruptured fallopian tube will not

re-connected itself, how could it?

I had an ec topic pregnancy that was found out before it ruptured anything. My doctor gave me a shot of a cancer drug that killed it. They were wonderful to me. They had a lot of compassion because they knew I wanted to have this baby. Instead I got an abortion for the health of my being.

When they say that late term abortions should not be provided even if the health of the woman is at stake I want to fucking scream

[Shell Beau]

63. Methotrexate? I had it twice for my 2 ectopics. I was

always led to believe that a ruptured tube was a very life threatening deal. You will bleed to death if you aren't rushed into surgery.

[Shell Beau]

62. I also had an ectopic pregnancy. 2 to be exact. And I was also in a Christian

hospital. In Mississippi. Nothing at all like your experience.

A ruptured tube would require surgery, right? I mean you will go into shock and bleed to death.

[juno jones]

65. That sucks.

Even Catholic hospitals realize that ectopic pregnancies are unviable and will grudgingly do something about it for the health of the mother.

Of course, that was awhile ago. Seeing how fucked up the sytem was, I voluntarily took myself out of the breeding pool 15 years ago. It was pretty hard to navigate the system then, especially for the poor, I can't imagine it has gotten better.

[Omaha Steve]

14. From a former volunteer abortion escort that cares

K&R!

From a former volunteer abortion escort that cares.

OS

[Maru Kitteh]

34. Thanks for doing what you did Steve. You will NEVER understand how grateful

women like me are that you were there for us. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[TheMickster]

26. I am so sorry for the pain

your grand niece went through.

I live in South Carolina and went through a similar situation about 9 years ago. I was sent to MUSC in Charleston. The people there were so wonderful to me and my family.
Me and my husband were given the option of surgery or induction. I chose induction at 24 weeks.
Our daughter, Cassandra, was still born on mothers day in 2000. The nurses dressed her in a little outfit, we held her, they took pictures and put her footprints in a keepsake book for us. Afterwards we were given followup counciling.
I could not imagine waiting around for almost three months wondering if this was going to be the day my dead daughter was going to be born.

[marzipanni]

128. I'm sorry

about your baby, but thankful you were in the care of compassionate people. Your story brought tears to my eyes. :hug:

[xchrom]

27. RECOMMEND

[Saphire]

28. I'm so sorry about your grand-niece. So tragic for her.

[Generic Other]

29. I know someone whose daughter had this happen

She was a Navy pilot's wife. He was in flight school in Florida. The military hospital refused to treat her. The funding for abortions performed at military hospitals had been cut by Congress at the time. Her mother had to go take her to a private hospital. To remove a dead fetus!!

These anti-choicers need to educate themselves.

[omega minimo]

30. So. So. Sorry

:cry:

[dana_b]

31. they are guilty of preventing future children from being born

with their ignorance and stupidity. I wonder if they could even fathom that they had something to do with that?

[Kittycat]

127. Future children? They'd rather the mother die,

than allow her to abort.

[Withywindle]

32. My condolences.

That's terrible. Your poor niece. That should never happen in an "advanced" country.

What people who bloviate about "partial-birth abortion" don't get is that most women who get late-term abortions WANTED the baby. That's why they waited! They were devastated to be told that the fetus was dead, or too deformed to survive long, or would kill her.

No woman should have to endure what your grand-niece did. Not in a civilized country. Not in the 21st century.

There are women who will die specifically because Dr. Tiller is gone. His murderer killed them too. :cry:

[grace0418]

33. It's amazing she didn't get an infection and become gravely ill. My best friend just

found out the fetus she was carrying suddenly stopped having a heartbeat. They knew the fetus was alive a week prior because she'd had an ultrasound. Right away the doctor said she could have the dead tissue removed or wait until it happened on its own, but they advised against waiting more than five days because then she ran the risk of infection. Your poor grandniece had to wait 5 WEEKS?! How awful, no awful doesn't even begin to describe it. I'm so sorry.

[jgraz]

35. Stories like this have no effect on religious psychopaths

You know the response: that's what she gets for having sex outside of marriage (sorry, "marraige"). These lunatics revel in your niece's pain.

[Beacool]

37. I'm so sorry!!!

When did this happen? Was it recently? If it is, it boggles the mind. It sounds like something that would have happened in the 50s or 60s.

What a horrible thing to have happened to your grand niece. How tragic that she won't be able to have other children.

:-(

[ljm2002]

39. Thank you for sharing this tragic and disturbing story...

...it is another illustration of why these procedures must be available.

If only our political discourse were not so poisoned, stories like these could be shared to counteract the barrage of bullshit that is promulgated by the forced-birthers who insist that every abortion is "murder" and those who provide abortions are "baby killers".

[Dorian Gray]

45. After the baby died

in utero, doctors wouldn't give her a D&C? Or D&E? What the hell?

[pecwae]

46. My condolences.

My unmarried daughter's first child died in the womb at 25 weeks gestation. She was offered surgery within a few days of the death being discovered. We live in The South and encountered no barriers to her getting the care she required.

[knitter4democracy]

47. That's the exact reason the D&X procedure was invented.

For when a baby dies late into the pregnancy and needs to be taken out of her. The D&X is safer than making her deliver the baby on her own and has a much lower risk of infection and negative consequences.

Women don't abort late in the pregnancy just because they changed their minds and don't want to be moms. They do it because of situations like that.

[Raster]

52. An ELECTIVE late-term abortion is almost unheard of. It just doesn't happen.

Almost all late-term procedures are because of health concerns.

[knitter4democracy]

53. Exactly, but that's not what the other side says.

They go on and on about all those poor babies, but just ask them about family members and friends who've had things go wrong. Then you get stories about how their raped sister got the morning after pill in the ER and how their cousin had a stillborn baby and was taken care of by her doctors.

There's a lot of race crap behind this (those poor women of color having all those babies and all those abortions, etc.), and there's a lot of just plain magical thinking.

[Raster]

55. The term "partial-birth abortion" was coined by the anti-choice meme machine.

There is no such procedure listed in ANY MEDICAL TEXT.

[knitter4democracy]

120. That's why I refuse to use the term.

I use medical terms for things, including almost all body parts (have been known to use the word "tummy"). I refuse to use such a loaded term that's crap anyway.

[colinmom71]

85. Well, in medical terms, an elective procedure...

Is any procedure that can be scheduled and planned in advance, even if due to medical urgency. Most all later abortions are, in clinical terms, elective. Though that does NOT mean that they are not medically justified.

Pregnancy terminations due to fetal demise can be planned and scheduled within a few days. In medical terms, that makes the procedure elective but still necessary to protect the patient's (the pregnant woman) long term health. Unfortunately, a D&X may be necessary to achieve the goal of protecting the woman's health should the pregnancy have advanced into the third trimester. But in most cases, an early induced labor birth is the least complicated option...

[dysfunctional press]

48. moral to this story: don't live in the south.

[Kalyke]

58. Why not?

The OP is purposely bashing the South.

This case sounds to be like his grand niece had no or poor insurance and didn't live near a big enough city with a doctor who could perform this service. Has nothing to do with "the South."

[Shell Beau]

64. bull fucking shit

This doesn't happen where I live. MISSISSIPPI

[dem629]

70. I'm not buying it either.

[nxylas]

73. I live in South Carolina too

I don't know about the doctors, but I know plenty of people here who describe themselves as "pro-life" and I can't imagine any of them having moral objections to aborting a fetus that was already dead.

[kath]

79. Did you read this:

http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2004/womanandherdoctor.asp

All those here who are doubting the OP's story really make me ill. Read the story at the fokkin' link!!

And yes, the situation is statistically likely to be much worse in the asshole "Bible Belt" states - I live in one, BTW.

[kath]

80. READ THIS before you go shooting your mouth off:

http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2004/womanandherdoctor.asp

[dem629]

91. Oh wow. Anectodal "evidence"!

[Shell Beau]

101. I am not shooting off anything. I have been in a situation MYSELF!

I have also had 2 friends deliver dead babies. I am going by what I know.

I never said I doubted the story, however it is odd. I think this is the exception rather than the rule. That is not to say it doesn't happen, but give me freaking break. Sounds more like shitty doctors than anything else.

[dem629]

68. Yeah, move to highly ethical Illinois!

[Posteritatis]

102. Ouch! (nt)

[colinmom71]

111. Except for Georgia...

Where we have had, for the last 15 years or so, a wonderful and easy to qualify pregnancy Medicaid program called "Right From The Start". Go to any health department for a pregnancy test (or any test that might show pregnancy), and a positive result will have the health workers there immediately take you to the side and see if you qualify for RFTS. The cap on income is at about 300% of the federal poverty level and then adjusted for family size (yes, the baby on the way is considered).

We have had married teachers with 3 or more kids who qualify for RFTS as supplemental insurance for the pregnancy and delivery costs. And a good number of OB/GYN's here are participating members for the program. I do have to admit though that I'm not sure what restrictions ma have been placed on income caps and such in the current challenged economy. Need to look that up soon.

The OP's niece, had she been here and on RFTS, would never have faced such cruel and inhumane treatment. I do suspect that money played a role in her denial of care. It can be very difficult to get abortion services cleared by Medicaid in general, but considering the medical necessity at the time, I doubt any doctor would have denied care knowing that they would be reimbursed sooner or later...

[Bryn]

50. ....

never mind.

[spanone]

51. so the so called pro life advocates would have been fine if your niece died too.

how is that pro life?

[geiger]

56. Thank you for sharing this story.

I just read a story about Margaret Sanger, submitted for an assignment in a leadership class I am taking. I had forgotten or maybe never known the sacrifices this woman made to help make other women safe.

[Kalyke]

57. What's "the South" have to do with it?

I live in "the South" and, sadly, know a couple of people who have had to have late-term abortions because the baby died.

It sounds like your grand niece's problem was more lack of health insurance and access to good medical care than because she's in "the South."

[shifting_sands]

75. It doesn't happen?

You are nuts if you think this doesn't happen, it happened to me and I had to wait until the baby was ready to be born, my still born baby. They wouldn't give anything to expel the pregnancy. I think it's wonderful that it never happened to you or anyone you know and because of that you say it doesn't happen? Do a little research because there are women out here who suffer and have been forced to suffer.

We don't have a problem sending our sons/fathers/brothers off to kill children in some foreign country just because those children were caught in a cross fire. Better than 50 percent of Iraqis' were women and children and we have killed thousands of them, but god help anyone who touches a fetus, who is not even a living thing yet. What is the matter with us?

A friend of mine died because of back street abortions 40 years ago, she would have lost it anyway because her father beat her half senseless before he took her to a dirty doctor to get the abortion. If you don't believe in abortion great, don't have one, but don't get into the face and shoot down those that do believe in abortion.

[Kalyke]

104. Um... I didn't say it didn't happen.

My objection was to the in "the South" comment added - as though the ONLY place in the United States where people are

A. Forbidden from having a late-term abortion because the fetus is dead;
B. Racist
C. Stupid
D. Unknowing of Civil War history

...is in "the South."

I think it happens ALL OVER - not just in "the South."

There are far too many South-bashing threads on DU and far too many threads that stick in South-bashing for no apparent reason. This is one of them.

The point of the story is that the woman couldn't get care. The OP should have just left out the in "the South" part.

[sonias]

71. Oh my this is horrible

:cry:


Sonia

[norepubsin08]

72. Every one of those God Damn Doctors Should Have

their Physicians Licenses revoked!!!!!!!

[NorthCarolina]

76. Maybe you should forward the details of this to Rachel Maddow at MSNBC nt

[wolfgangmo]

83. This is hilarious

A whole bunch of you are having a texas pissing match over whose state or region has the best crappy care in a country without single payer health care.

What a riot. It's like listening to a bunch of bums in a bar arguing over whose life if more fucked up. It would be pathetic if it weren't so ironic.

[livefreest]

84. seems cowardice is king in those places. but it's not surprising when fearing God, not loving God,

is the rule. it's just like fearing any other supernatural being.

[demo dutch]

86. Wow she could have died

[get the red out]

98. Just a female, who cares, just property

I can't put into words how I hate the religious right.

I am sure they think GAWD smiles every time a pregnant woman dies.

[demo dutch]

108. Sometimes is really depressing to live in the US

[yodoobo]

88. Where exactly in the south?

Did everyone deny her care?

Where in the North did they provide care?

I believe you of course, but its hard to take much from this with so many generalities.

I'm now living in south. A blue state. Previously I lived in the North which was a red state.

[HillCountryGal]

90. This is such a terrible utterly unnecessary tragedy.

My heart breaks for this young woman and all those who love her.

:cry:

[backscatter712]

92. How the fuck can there be ambiguity in dealing with a dead fetus?

How can a doctor go all chicken-shit because he thinks it's "too close to an abortion"? All he has to do is give the poor woman an ultrasound. Aim it at the fetus, look at the heart. Heart not beating? Fetus is dead. Get it out.

It's not that fucking difficult for a trained physician....

[get the red out]

100. My mother had a fetus die in the womb

I was about 6, I am 44 now. She had to have the procedure to remove it, there was no question it was dead, and no question that the Doctors would take it out. This was in Kentucky 38 years ago! There wasn't any talk of killing the already dead fetus. My Mom was heartbroken but certainly didn't question the doctors, why would she? My sister was born 3 years later, if they had left the dead fetus maybe I wouldn't even have a little sister, maybe I wouldn't even have had a feisty 73 year old Mom!

The horror of this in amazing. I knew abortion was only technically legal in the south, but I had no idea the South, where I live, was so third world that they would destroy a young woman's fertility because they wouldn't remove a dead fetus out of fear of religious nuts. How sickening! I wonder if all these big white male Rush fans would stand by peacefully watching their wife of daughter die for the sake of a dead fetus?

[blackbart99]

99. I hate too bring this up....but...

Was she black...asian...mid-eastern...???? No insurance???? Not enough detail to really tell what
these Dr's were thinking. My bet...its racial and economic prejudice. Mixed with the fear of
a malpractice suit if they even touch this girl. Shameful either way. I'm embarrassed to be an
American today.:yoiks:

[sam sarrha]

136. THEY DIDNT WANT TO GET SHOT IN THE HEAD BY A FUCK'N CRAZY CHRISTIAN..!!

[Deep13]

103. RWers think this kind of think is necessary...

...to scare young women into not having sex. It is basically a way to reinforce paternal, tribal control over women.

[PatSeg]

105. I'm so sorry for your niece

And I assume no one in the medical profession will take any responsibility for this unbelievable tragedy.

[greiner3]

109. my ex had a D &C on a 22 week old "Baby;"

Because her child molesting OB-GYN dr never checked for a heart rate. If he had, he would have found a lot earlier that she was actually carrying 'Stuff' and not a baby at all. It was 6 pounds of pre-cancerous growth due to a condition called Tropoblastic Disease. This procedure, if Roe vs. Wade is overturned, would have prevented her from terminating what all the tests had called a healthy baby.

Gross part;

I saw my ex on the gurney just prior to surgery. Her hips were slightly raised and when I looked I saw what I at first believed to be globe sized green grapes laying on the gurney. They were not grapes and when I looked closed I saw that these green things were moving and you could see veins and arteries within. After an autopsy was done, we were told that there were no recognizable fetal parts.

[Chorophyll]

110. OMFG. I'm so sorry.

We are turning into a Third World country when it comes to reproductive health (among other things.) I'm so sorry for your niece.

:grr: :cry:

[sasquatch]

112. Has she at least moved out of the South?

[jazzjunkysue]

113. "Right to Life?" That's protecting who's rights? The life of a corpse?

That's absolutely gruesome. I'm so sorry for her.

[defendandprotect]

115. Every possibility that had her grandfather not taken her north, she might have lost her life!

You couldn't be making clearer how necessary abortion is to the "health/life" of the
pregnant female!

The GOP/Grand Ole Patriarchy doesn't give a fig for the lives of women --
And, organized patriarchal religions are the underpinning for patriarchy and their
insane war on women.

Your story is, I think, something we're going to see more often -- again!

I remember that Debbie Reynolds, the actress had this happen to her in her second
marriage. A pregnancy where the fetus was dead and you couldn't get an abortion.
She had to carry the dead fetus for months.

Obviously also damaged her health -- because while she did get pregnant again, the
fetus died even earlier and she still had to carry yet another dead fetus to delivery.

Just recently here, someone posted an article where a woman was suffering a miscarriage
and the hospital wouldn't take her in because they were so afraid of being accused of
performing an abortion!!

Patriarchy cheapens the lives of women and actually threatens it.

[ejpoeta]

118. too bad a girl like that can't sue someone for spreading lies and causing her to

be unable to have children now thanks to their bullshit.

[onestepforward]

123. My deepest condolences to your niece and family.

Every person should have access to proper medical care in a timely manor along with compassion for those in need. It's a horrific story and I hope for healing for your niece, both emotionally and physically.

[slackmaster]

124. The pro-lifers insist that Dr. Tiller performed abortions for women who suddenly decided to abort

At an advanced stage of pregnancy for convenience.

:argh:

[Raster]

130. The anti-choicers insist that Dr. Tiller performed abortions for women who suddenly decided to abort

When WE--the pro-choice advocates--use the term "pro-life" we support their false meme.

They are NOT "pro-life," they are ANTI-CHOICE!

[slackmaster]

140. How about eschewing all of the imprecise, inflammatory, propagandistic bumper sticker labels?

The English language is a wonderful vehicle for communicating nuanced ideas.

I know or know of:

People who think abortion at any time for any reason is wrong, and that it should be banned.
People who think abortion at any time for any reason is wrong, but that banning it would do more harm than good.
People who are opposed to abortion in their own lives but do not wish to impose their will on anyone else.
People who think abortion should be legal at any stage of pregnancy.
People who think abortion should be legal at any stage of pregnancy, and that government should provide it for free to any woman who wants it.
People who think the law is just fine as it is now, with federal protection up to a point and state regulation after that.
People who don't give a flying fuck one way or another.

And on and on and on.

[Raster]

142. I think CHOICE and ANTI-CHOICE sums it up just fine.

Do you support the right of a woman to make a reproductive choice, or not?

Seems simple enough to me.

[slackmaster]

144. I think there are two kinds of people in this world

People who think a complex issue can be broken down into black vs. white, and those who do not.

I support reproductive choice, with the performance of medical procedures regulated by the states.

[Raster]

146. I think there are many kinds of people in this world, just as many kinds as there are, well, people.

I think some people deliberately avoid breaking down issues into base components, and then others--for one reason or another--avoid seeing issues in any other fashion than black or white.

Reproductive choice IS a black or white issue. You support the right of a woman to control her body and her reproductive choice or you do not. It really is that simple.

Just out of curiosity, what medical procedures would you like to see regulated by the states? Pregnancy terminations? How would you like to see them regulated? And isn't that really just another way to say ANTI-CHOICE?

Anti-choice = Pro-death:kick:

[slackmaster]

147. All medical procedures are regulated by the states right now

Which is as it should be in the interest of public safety.

Pregnancy terminations? How would you like to see them regulated? And isn't that really just another way to say ANTI-CHOICE?

I don't want someone other than a trained, licensed practitioner performing pregnancy terminations (other than those that can be accomplished by swallowing a pill, and those should be dispensed by trained, licensed pharmacists).

Are you saying that makes me "anti-choice"? If so, it's a fine example of the imprecision of such simplistic, absolute language.

Or do you think just anyone ought to be permitted to hang out a shingle and offer abortion services? Or rhinoplasty? How about tattoo removal?

[Raster]

149. I completely agree, except for tattoos.

:sarcasm:

[Bettie]

125. Poor girl!

The depth of the depravity of these people never fails to amaze me. On so many levels what happened to her is wrong.

I'm so sorry for her. Losing a baby that you wanted is such a terrible pain.

[onestepforward]

126. My deepest condolences for your niece and family.

It is a heartbreaking story. Your niece should have been taken care of medically and compassionately. I wish her emotional and physical healing.

[barbtries]

131. what a horror story

i am so sorry. :cry:

those bastards. i can hardly believe it.

[defendandprotect]

132. And that's why I also often ask . . .

"Has the South set women free yet?"

It wasn't just African-Americans -- it was anyone of color -- homosexuals

and women, Jews."

The whole KKK "Christian" shebang!

[liberal N proud]

134. Poverty stricken is the key here

Women of means can get any medical service they are willing to pay for. Once again it is Americas poor who suffer because of the right wing. This on their phony morals.

[Samantha]

135. Woman should take a page out of the 60s playbook

Refuse to have sex with any Republican, right-wing extremist, conservative Dem or Independent or simply anyone who does not support a woman's choice in matters such as these. Worked pretty well to a certain extent. Some conservatives openly complained it in the press.

[slackmaster]

145. That's horrible

Even the people who vehemently oppose abortion have no business opposing medical treatment in a situation like that.