Radio host arrested for inciting listeners to "take up arms" against lawmakers

[Bluebear]

Internet radio host Hal Turner -- accused of inciting Catholics to “take up arms” and singling out two Connecticut lawmakers and a state ethics official on a Web site -- was taken into custody in New Jersey late Wednesday after state Capitol police in Connecticut obtained a warrant for his arrest.

Turner, who has been identified as a white supremacist and anti-Semite by several anti-racism groups, hosts an Internet radio program with an associated blog. On Tuesday, the blog included a post that promised to release the home addresses of state Rep. Michael Lawlor, state Sen. Andrew McDonald and Thomas Jones of the State Ethics Office.

“Mr. Turner’s comments are above and beyond the threshold of free speech,” Capitol Police Chief Michael J. Fallon said in an e-mail announcing the warrant. “He is inciting others through his Web site to commit acts of violence and has created fear and alarm. He should be held accountable for his conduct.”...

The blog of the “Turner Radio Network” recounted the matter, then included the following remarks in a section labeled “commentary“: “It is our intent to foment direct action against these individuals personally. These beastly government officials should be made an example of as a warning to others in government: Obey the Constitution or die.”

http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/18735

[DeepBlueC]

1. Good.

I hope he is the first of many.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. I'm with you. Good. nt

[Dramarama]

2. That's what our church teaches?

He needs to go back to Sunday school

[Swamp Rat]

4. He is getting schooled right now.

:D

[Danascot]

37. Hey, it's Swamprat

Haven't seen you here in a rat's age. I just thought of you today as I was reading a piece at HuffPo:

Newt Gingrich Angers the Zombie Reagan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-filipowicz/newt-gingrich-angers-the_b_214131.html

It features a youtube video with a green Reagan ... an entirely inadequate imitation of the awesomeness that is a Swamprat graphic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVr9Pc3bhD8

Welcome back. I hope to see more of your twisted work here at DU.

[intheflow]

46. Swampie, you've returned!

I've missed your wonderful artwork. DU just isn't the same without you! :hug: You must be done with school for the moment for us to be blessed with your presence. Hope you did well! :hi:

[bluethruandthru]

3. It's about damn time!

This right wing hate speech has been allowed to flourish in this country and it's got to stop.

[JBoy]

5. A few spaces just opened up at Gitmo.

"inciting others ... to commit acts of violence ... created fear and alarm".

Fits the textbook description of a terrorist.

[DeepBlueC]

28. hehehe

[dweller]

6. listen ... do you hear that?

the sound of posts being scrubbed at Freeperville, along w/ heads a'poppin.

dp

[struggle4progress]

7. Last week's LBN:

Radio Host Hal Turner Charged With Inciting Injury To Two Connecticut Lawmakers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3906925

North Bergen shock blogger (White Supremacist)Hal Turner arrested, awaits extradition to Connecticut
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3907056

[Bluebear]

21. As you can see a lot of people here didn't know about it.

[OhioBlue]

8. at first I thought this was satire on the anti-choice extremists

that said that about the KS assassin.

note: I use extremists b/c I think there is a wide range of people that call themselves "pro-life". I know there are DUers that consider themselves pro-life but understand the health and safety issues and don't call Doctors and women baby-killers and terrorize them such as the operation rescue crowd.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. He deserves to be busted. Good.

[chill_wind]

10. K & R. n/t

[Amonester]

11. It's about time!!

Home-grown terrorits like that mfer should take notes.

He's not the only one out there, after all.

[marybourg]

12. The charge was " inciting injury to persons or property "

Interesting. I guess that amounts, in the current environment, to yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater. Or not. We'll see.

[malaise]

16. No it amounts to telling others to commit violence

and promising to post addresses. Lock him up.

[marybourg]

22. "Yelling fire in a crowded theater"

is a famous line from a US Supreme court decision which illustrates the type of agitation that is not protected by the 1st amendment.

[glinda]

13. When will the big Media conglomerations be broken up? Freeper talk programs

are no longer "free Speech" when they DOMINATE THE AIRWAVES. Then it falls into "Propaganda" to overthrow the Government. I know. Someone will tell me that is not true or legal grounds. But really!

[MadMaddie]

14. See there is a limit

“Mr. Turner’s comments are above and beyond the threshold of free speech,”

It is time for us to make sure that anyone else that is spewing this kind of crap on the airwaves on either side is looked at. (Not really much to look on the left though)

The irony is the right wing did this to themselves they are on a much larger percentage of radio shows and this was bound to happen...oh well..

[spanone]

15. great and charge him with incitement of hate crimes

[symbolman]

17. NOW Arrest Limbaugh

At least two out of three of those parameters are met by Limbaugh's conduct.

Remember, Daschle had to Hire Bodyguards because of rants by BoilBoy.. And I am dead serious..

[PSzymeczek]

53. And O'LIElly,

and Glenn Beck, and the savage Weiner, etc.

[Badgerman]

18. Self deleted dupe

[Badgerman]

19. Now if the momentum can be kept going there is a chance! Needed some good news! tnx

[blonndee]

20. Wow. I can't believe this finally happened!

[Dappleganger]

23. Thank goodness they're paying better attention

[CitizenPatriot]

24. proud to say that I called the Secret Service on this clown

a few months ago when he posted a call to kill a certain politician I am rather fond of....

The Secret Service said they had him on their radar, but that he was skirting the lines. I informed them that as a citizen, his rhetoric terrified me, and that was not OK.

I'm tired of feeling this way, tired of worrying about these right wing nut jobs taking away our freedoms and our sense of normalcy. They are terrorizing us with their words and call to action.

I was thrilled when I saw this the first time, and love to see it updated here. thanks for the post.

[DeepBlueC]

29. you've earned your name, CitizenPatriot

:thumbsup:

[CitizenPatriot]

52. thanks!!

:hi: :hi: justice is compelling....:-)

[Dem_4_Life]

25. Good

It is about time and hopefully this is the first of many. Next up Rush!!!

[wan]

26. About time. About Rush?

They had plenty to charge this guy with going back to at least 2006, when he said:
"We may have to ASSASSINATE some of the people you elect on Nov. 7! This could be your LAST ELECTION CHANCE, to save this Republic... Sorry to have to be so blunt, but the country is in mortal danger from our present government and our liberty is already near dead because of this government. If you are too stupid to turn things around with your vote, there are people out here like me who are willing to turn things around with guns, force and violence. We hope our method does not become necessary."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

In 2008
"I advocate parents using FORCE AND VIOLENCE against Superintendent Paul B. Ash as a method of defending the health and safety of school children presently being endangered through his politically-correct indoctrination into deadly, disease-ridden sodomite lifestyles."

In 2005 he posted the names and addresses of three federal court judges on his Web site. The fact that he got away with this makes you wonder about the "informant allegations".

Many here suggest the same charges for Rush et al. There's a problem with that. Unless a specific statement can be quoted to support the charges, the advocacy of anti-gay marriage etc. is not technically hate speech. That we feel as though these peoples legislative and personal preferences are a direct affront on these people constituting hate is not necessarily a factual representation of the individuals perspective. When violence is advocated directly or through symbolism that contains no other meaning, the the ryder truck incident, then we have them dead to rights. Revulsion and what we think from our perspective such rhetoric entails is not a factual or legally meaningful definition. Such definitions are certainly valid for some, and certainly not valid for other right wingers.

If anyone can post a quote by Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Rilly, etc. where they advocate violence of any form, including symbolism, then we can seriously bring charges. The symbolism can't itself be purely a definition from our perspective, such as anti-gay rights = hate speech. Huckabee is quiet honest in his *opinion* that civil rights associated with marriage should be and are protected via civil unions. It is nothing more than his opinion though, and a highly biased one. Many others would criminalize gays altogether. To bring criminal charges requires advocating violence either directly or through unambiguous symbolism. We need to do better at bringing these people down when we can, and whining about taking certain ones down, that don't fit the legal conditions, is a waste of time.

[RufusTFirefly]

30. Frankly, this makes me a little uneasy

This Turner guy sounds very dangerous indeed, but would Jonathan Swift have been arrested for suggesting cannibalism?

I think most of us can agree that as the police chief said, "Turner's comments are above and beyond the threshold of free speech." But who decides where that threshold lies? Technically, the courts do. But will police chiefs in less progressive places start arresting people who advocate views that offend conservative communities? Should Martin Scorsese have been arrested for making Taxi Driver or should Roland Emmerich, the director of Independence Day, be picked up for making a movie that depicts the destruction of the White House and could conceivably inspire copycats?

[montanto]

31. You're gonna have to run that comparison

of Hal Turner and Jonathan Swift by me one more time. Swift is sarcastic, not really suggesting that the Irish eat their own kids, while Turner is really preparing to release addresses of people he doesn't like and has already singled out in public/on air. BTW there may be a heightened sense of danger right now considering recent murders perpetrated by hate rhetoric spewing r-wingers. The perception may be that if we act before idiots kill, if we send the message that hate speech is not the same as free speech when it leads to action, we could save some lives (like Swift was trying to do).

[RufusTFirefly]

33. Right. But my point is that some people don't "get" satire or nuance.

Remember the recent story that suggests that right-wingers think Stephen Colbert is seriously espousing their views, just as Archie Bunker's satirical rants had true believers who didn't get the joke. That was my point.

[MNBrewer]

48. Are you saying Turner was merely being satyrical?

[RufusTFirefly]

49. No. And the word is satirical. Satyrical would mean something else entirely.

I'm suggesting that satirists could be swept up in the same arguably justifiable hysteria to crack down on people who go beyond some ill-defined threshold. If you operate with a "I know it when I see it" standard, you run the risk of silencing legitimate, albeit offensive speech. The purpose of the First Amendment, after all, is to protect the stuff we don't approve of. It's easy to protect the stuff we do approve of.

Jeez Louise. Maybe I'm losing my touch, but obtuseness seems to be on the rise here.

[MNBrewer]

51. Thanks for the spelling correction, and

I don't share your concern on that issue. Satire is one thing, incitement is another. I think the courts can sort it out.

[Seldona]

36. This isn't about his views, it is about advocating violence.

Threats are not 'views' in my opinion. And yes if someone makes a threat on a progressive website they should be held accountable as well. This isn't a bi-partisan issue.

We don't get to go around yelling fire in crowded theaters, and we don't get to threaten people with violence for any reason, let alone political reasons. That cranks it up to whole new level. The guy was going to post personal information along with comments like the ones in the op. No sympathy here.

[pitchforksandtorches]

32. String him up

[Union Yes]

34. Make an example of this Fascist pig.

[burning rain]

35. He can work on his memoirs in the pokey.

Call 'em The Turner Diaries?

[sniffa]

40. That's what I thought of when I saw his name

I bet his real name isn't even Turner.

[OneGrassRoot]

38. Did Hannity, Limbaugh, anyone mention this as far as you know? n/t

[Mika]

39. If/when Hugo Chavez's gov did/has done this, there would be/are DUers howling 'dictatorship'. n/t

Shoe, meet foot.

[NNN0LHI]

54. Which only goes to prove don't take seriously everything one reads on an anonymous web site

Not much else.

Don

[louis-t]

41. Rush will call him a 'leftist'.

[syberlion]

42. Setting a Precedent, then Rush, Hannity, etc.

When you sited the times that Rush said similar things, I noticed it was when King Little Tree was in power, so that's one reason why he has enjoyed the latitude to say the scree he's spewed over the air waves.

First, we have to re-establish the difference between free speech and speech set to incite violence. I suspect this arrest already has a hive of lawyers buzzing at Faux News, Clear Channel, and other bastions of Right-Wing-Nut Hate Speech factories... I am sure once Hal Turner is convicted, you'll see a definitive change in the MS versions of the Right-Wing Hate Speech. I suspect those not willing to bend to the rule of their right -wing corporate masters, they'll end up blogging until they too will get arrested for the same thing.

My prediction, Rush will "retire" siting health issues, Hannity will do infomercials for hair products, and O'reily will be the one to end up web-casting until he's arrested.

[EOTE]

43. The Freepers are crushed!

Seriously. 90% of their comments express how outraged they are over this and what a terrible double standard those on the right are subjected to. Check it out for a quick laugh:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2264639/posts

[BuyingThyme]

44. Another day, another Puke terrorist.

[NewJeffCT]

45. Before his website was taken down, it was filled with anti-Semitic screeds

from his supporters after learning of his arrest... this was reported on local radio in Hartford.

[ClayZ]

47. K and R

[tomm2thumbs]

50. Run, Hide. They are coming to take your guns!! (repeat over and over till you believe it.)

Oh, I forgot I'm in a reasonable place inhabited by people with brains.

How refreshing is that?

[scentopine]

55. Sean Hannity Palling Around with Terrorists

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050620/blumenthal

Now I remember where I've run across Mr. Turner before.

The right wing is newly emboldened and they are buying guns like crazy. The media is doing what they do best, aiding and abetting by building a market around the stupid and the ignorant. Its like free money.