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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:13 PM
Original message
This is a total betrayal
I understand having to defend the law as the executive branch. I can understand why the Obama administration decided to defend DOMA, though they could have decided not to. What is a betrayal is that for the second time in a week or so we have the rational basis test being advocated as a test for laws discriminating against gays.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-doma.html

Gays don't deserve same scrutiny in court that other minorities get

Because DOMA does not restrict any rights that have been recognized as fundamental or rely on any suspect classifications, it need not be reviewed with heightened scrutiny. Properly understood, the right at issue in this case is not a right to marry. After all, the federal government does not, either through DOMA or any other federal statute, issue marriage licenses or determine the standards for who may or may not get married. Indeed, as noted above — and as evidenced by the fact that plaintiffs have married in California — DOMA in no way prohibits same-sex couples from marrying. Instead, the only right at issue in this case is a right to receive certain benefits on the basis of a same-sex marriage. No court has ever found such a right to federal benefits on that basis to be fundamental — in fact, all of the courts that have considered the question have rejected such a claim. (And even if the right at issue in this case were the right to same-sex marriage, current Supreme Court precedent that binds this Court does not recognize such a right under the Constitution.) Likewise, DOMA does not discriminate, or permit the States to discriminate, on the basis of a suspect classification; indeed, the Ninth Circuit has held that sexual orientation is not a suspect classification.

Argues Republican position on how judges should review cases

DOMA therefore must be analyzed under rational-basis review. Under the highly deferential rational basis standard, moreover, a court may not act as superlegislature, sitting in judgment on the wisdom or morality of a legislative policy. Instead, a legislative policy must be upheld so long as there is any reasonably conceivable set of facts that could provide a rational basis for it, including ones that the Congress itself did not advance or consider. DOMA satisfies this standard.

end of quote

This isn't just about DOMA and DADT (the other policy the administration defended in this manner); it is about every single, solitary, anti gay law that is now or ever will be passed by any legislature anywhere at any time. Mississippi decides gays should be banned from living within 1000 feet of children, this argument will be used to uphold the law. Utah decides that gays should pay more taxes than straights, this argument will be used to uphold the law. North Carolina decides gays can't be employed as teachers, this argument will be used to uphold the law. Rational basis actually means no basis at all. It renders the 14th Amendment null and void as to gays now and forever. This defines betrayal. It is one thing to defend these laws, it is quite another to make this argument while doing so. It leaves open the question, does Sotomayor believe in this argument?
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. shut up and look at photothreads of puppies.
Don't mind that bus.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Someone needs to ask Sotomayor the question
My guess is that no one in the Obama administration did.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. This shows why equal rights are never given, and always have to be
taken. The majority always has ways of rationalizing why the minority isn't really denied equal rights, and doesn't deserve equal rights, or even consideration under any framework that might lead to the conclusion of equal rights.

The majority will always rig the rules to guarantee that rights are denied, and are never even a possibility.

That's why civil rights is always such an angry fight. We have to fight to change the rules to make equal rights possible, and then to make it part of the discussion, and then to make it happen.


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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sure it won't be the last.
It's becoming a pattern.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's certainly a puzzling position
I don't think that "suspect classification" or "strict scrutiny" is the right class to put this case in, and most state courts (except California) have not done so. The consensus of state courts seems to emerging that the right class of cases is "semi-strict scrutiny" which has generally been used in gender discrimination cases.

It seems that arguing "rational relationship" risks setting back marriage equality by decades, and the Supreme Court has already accepted that reasoning in the DADT case.

Even if the administration wants to put these issues in Congress rather than have them decided by the courts, the least damaging way of doing that is arguing "semi-strict scrutiny" and then saying that the case fails the semi-strict scrutiny test.

Using "rational relationship" seems particularly dangerous, especially in light of Lawrence v. Texas. I also think the DADT case should have been a "strict scrutiny" case under the rubric of "fundamental rights" while the DOMA case should be semi-strict scrutiny.

I'm puzzled about the DOJ's insistence on arguing rational relationship in these cases. That said, I definitely would not call it a Republican position. These doctrines transcend political affiliation.

Also, in the marriage context, it is possible ironically that applying the rational relationship test can be a good thing, as it was in Massachusetts, wherein the court applied that test and found there was no conceivable rational basis for marriage discrimination. But as you point out the problem is with precedent the application of this test poses for future cases in other areas of life.

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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. The administration does not "have to" defend the law
Clinton, Bush, and Reagan all opposed laws in court.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very chilling. I'm growing ever more concerned about Obama and his actions
on the economic front certainly but his position on gay rights is especially troubling.

John Aravosis is a glbt advocate I've always followed with great interest and I'm glad he's getting some play on DU.

K and R, sadly.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bigotry is almost always perpetuated by "reasonable people." It's rarely the mouth-breathers...
... who drive policy.

In the past, "reasonable people" (often supported by their churches) told us why slavery wasn't inhumane, why black people and white people needed to be segregated, why women were not properly suited for certain roles in society, and why it was unwise for people of two different races or religions to marry.

Throughout history, it's all been very civil. And horribly corrosive.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Always in the interests of "meeting in the middle"
Minorities of all stripes always end up crushed underfoot in the rush to meet at the center.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why are so many people seemingly oblivious to the fact that a politician's job is to LIE?
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BLS Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. This....
I'm actually astonished at how many of you are starting to realize that Obama is a POLITICIAN.

You didn't really think he was gonna do all that stuff he promised..........Right??? :wtf:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. A symptom of insanity is repeating same behavior over & over, each time expecting different results
= America
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. it's disgusting and I'm disgusted. And angry.
flood the WH with comments.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. the wheels on the bus go round and round,....
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's only been 4 1/2 months!!!!!1111
Obama hasn't had TIME to not directly subvert civil rights for gays.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thank God Hillary didn't get in.
:sarcasm:
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