The return of the confederate flag on the pickup truck

[Cyrano]

Years back, I posted about some local guy in a pickup truck who has a huge American flag and a Confederate flag standing tall and streaming in the wind on the bed of his truck. The first time I saw it I thought the truck belonged to a Robert E. Lee descendent on steroids.

I’ve seen this truck more than half a dozen times during the Bush years and today I saw it again. There were times during the Bush rein when the confederate flag wasn’t there. But today it was back, blowing in the wind and in the faces of everyone who considers it a symbol of racism. (And please, spare me the Southern heritage crap.)

So here’s my point. Within the past week, an abortion doctor has been murdered by a wingnut. A guard at the Holocaust Museum has been murdered by a wingnut. And the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Dept of Homeland Security have both predicted the rise of American right wing terrorism, much of it due to Obama’s election. (Look up the Southern Poverty Law Center on Google. The info is well worth it.)

We can’t ignore Al Qaeda. But as Oklahoma City and the disgusting display of show-business and disrespect outside of Terri Schiavo’s hospice seemed to demonstrate, lunatic right wing Americans are a bigger threat to us than our foreign enemies can only envy.

Today, I again saw the pickup truck with a waving confederate flag that somehow looked newer, larger, and was placed higher than the American flag alongside of which it was flying. The nut that owns the truck and flags has the right to make his public statement(s).

So here’s my question. Should I wait to see a swastika flying alongside the other two flags before I start to worry? (And please, spare me the paranoia crap.)

[AspenRose]

1. It's hard to ignore, I know.....believe me, I know

I've seen them in Delaware, in New Hampshire, in West Virginia, in New Mexico.

The best thing to do is ignore it. For sanity and blood pressure's sake.

[Cyrano]

2. I know you're right. But it's so difficult to ignore bigotry and hatred when

it's being blatantly thrown in your face.

I remember that many years ago, driving through the rural south with a New York license plate was like putting a target on your back during deer hunting season.

Yet, it seems the haters know that as much as we despise them, we won't assault them. Perhaps this is because we are more civilized than they are. Or, perhaps it's because we're fools who don't grasp that those "showers" are actually gas chambers.

Oops. Did that sound a bit extreme. Sorry about that. I'm sure it would have sounded just as extreme to those who thought they were being herded into showers.

[Posteritatis]

3. I see far too many Confederate flags in Canada as well

Granted, the further right you go here the more "we must be a good client state" you get, so..

[BolivarianHero]

88. Whereabouts?

Don't see any here around Ottawa.

[Peacetrain]

4. Flying the Confederate flag.. a defeated break away insurrection.. hmmmm sounds UnAmerican to me

just saying

[Cyrano]

14. That miserable rag that we refer to as a Confederate flag is today,a symbol of hatred

"A defeated break away insurrection." Spare me what is either naivete, or ignorance.

Either you don't understand the motives of those who display that flag, or you do understand their motives and trying to pull off a "Who??? Me???"

I prefer to believe that you are just naive and unknowing enough to buy into the crap they're selling.

[Peacetrain]

35. What the hell are you ranting about?

Listen up bucko, you might want to clean those eyeglasses before you put your foot in your mouth again. I am going to assume (which will probably make an ass out of both of us) that you misread my title.

If you think flying a confederate flag like you would fly your country's flag is not unAmerican, then I have some questions to ask you about your motives.

[Peacetrain]

36. And let me add to that

In certain areas of this country...and it is just not the south.. people are putting up the bars and stars and swearing allegiance to it. If you cannot stand beside me on this, and call that out as UnAmerican..Then you and I will be doing a dance the rest of the night here, that might get us both banned.

[Ghost in the Machine]

47. What I've noticed here in East Tennessee is that rednecks identify themselves with that flag..

That's all it is to them... a redneck symbol... they don't know the history of the flag, and most probably don't care. They're the "good ol' boys" who like to go muddin' & huntin' & fishin' & 4 wheelin'... funny thing is, I lived in South Florida (Homestead/Florida City area) & Georgia (just west of Atlanta) and the same thing held true there. I've never heard anyone swear allegiance to it, either...

Admittedly, some racist groups, like the klan (klowns), adopted the confederate flag. That doesn't make everyone who flys the flag a racist.


Are we doing a Tango, or a Waltz? As long as it isn't the "stanky leg", I'm down with it...


Peace,

Ghost

[Peacetrain]

48. Its a two step Ghost

:hi:

I live in Iowa, and we have the skinheads, and neo nazis.. here.. and they swear allegiance to the swastika and the stars and bars.

That is why I said, this is not just something that happens in the south, and it is the swearing of allegiance to that said same flag for reasons of hatred of a group by virtue, of race, religion or creed, nationality. I hoped I had made that clear in that second post

"In certain areas of this country...and it is just not the south.. people are putting up the bars and stars and swearing allegiance to it. If you cannot stand beside me on this, and call that out as UnAmerican.."

I was also responding to being called naive on the subject.. You would have thought a new pope had been elected with all that smoke coming out of my ears

[Ghost in the Machine]

55. *whew*!

:hi:

[AspenRose]

16. You're right

Isn't it ironic that some of the ones who yell "America-Love it or Leave It!" or "Proud to be an American!" the loudest also have stars and bars stuck or flying somewhere near their domicile.... :crazy:

[gratuitous]

5. One wonders . . .

With gas prices inching (or footing) back up again, and considering the rather poor gas mileage a pickup gets, why this guy is so anxious to hurt his vehicle's aerodynamics in order to render even more tribute to the oil companies. Probably rails against having to pay taxes to the gubmint, but doesn't think twice about paying more for gas.

Probably nothing to worry about yet; but do keep an eye on it. My guess is that this is a person blissfully oblivious to anything approaching self-awareness.

[mitchum]

6. What? He had a white flag flying from his pick up truck?

That's the true confederate flag

[Cyrano]

8. Sorry, it wasn't a white flag. And if you didn't notice, the Civil War has never really ended.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alcibiades]

11. Sure it did

The south lost, and surrendered. Folks who wax nostalgic about the lost cause nonetheless don't have the stomach to fight it again, they just want to rile folks up.

Real southerners, as patriotic Americans, should acknowledge two points made loudly by southern opponents of secession at the time: secession is was a colossally bad idea, and Calhoun (and slavery, though few really still defend that openly), states' rights, state sovereignty and all the rest are wrong, stupid and treasonous.

[jberryhill]

53. Rofl /nt

[tcfrogs]

7. They've never really gone away to begin with n/t

[rebel with a cause]

64. I live in an area where the North meets the South

and you are right, they never have gone away. It is funny, or maybe not so funny, but when you see that pick up you know what kind of person is behind the wheel and you don't want to know them. We saw one the other night that had an accompanying sign that said "Fear This" on it. Now what exactly did that mean? To fear them and their flag or what? We just shook our heads at the ignorance of it all and passed them on the highway to nowhere. :shrug:

[mwb970]

69. Um, it wasn't from this outfit, was it?

http://www.fearthis4life.org/

[rebel with a cause]

71. Nope. I don't think so.

It came from this web site. http://www.fastdecals.com/quikstore/fear

The decal displayed is shown on the page. http://www.fastdecals.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=Fearthis02_nofear&category=&keywords=fear&hits_seen=&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=

The decal was plainly tied to the large confederate flag decal under it. This is the attitude of many here in 'Illinois Dixie'.

(Edited to add: take note of the "Grim Reaper" decal at the first link. It says it all!)

[Mari333]

9. Ive seen plenty of them in Michigan, which makes no sense

because its Michigan..I mean, ..wtf.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

65. Well, what flags should fly in MI

on the trucks of the racist, disillusioned, and psychotic?

We haven't gotten our butts kicked in a war on MI soil since the War of 1812.

And nobody knows what flags flew then.


:hi:

[michreject]

85. The auto manufacturers brought a lot of people from the south

To make cars. They're still loyal to their region.

[Arctic Dave]

12. There is a trailer around town that has a US flag and a cunfederait flag.

I can only imagine the IQ level of the inhabitant.

[Statistical]

40. Oh the irony. n/t

[BeeBee]

13. I live in liberal Northern California...

and we get 'em here too.

[Cyrano]

15. Yep. It's really hard to keep the disease of ignorance from spreading.

[AspenRose]

17. Is Sacramento fairly conservative? Or is it purple?

I think of it as being conservative because of the past connections to that Limbaugh person.

[Taverner]

20. Purple. Blue in the center, red in the outlying areas

[Obamanaut]

18. There were several approved flags of the confederacy over a

period of time. What is normally seen on bumpers, Florida interstates, etc. was not one of them.

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

[Cyrano]

21. Spare us the sophistry

Whichever version you want to talk about, we all know it when we see it. And we all know exactly what it stands for in today's world.

[Obamanaut]

22. Damn! I truly feel chastened now. (hangs head) nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. He's got a point.

Every time the confederate flag is brought up, some smart ass mentions that it wasn't really the flag during the Civil War.

It's like every time somebody posts a story about some paleontological find of a 100 million year old dinosaur fossil, some jackasses decide to keep telling that joke about how it's impossible because the world is only 6,000 years old.

Every single fucking time.

[Obamanaut]

26. And the only reason anyone starts a thread about the confederate

flag, is because he or she knows it will stir shit up. It's obvious. It happens every time. It gives all the sanctimonious supercillious dickwads an opportunity to feel superior posting about how it's a symbol of hate, or that only in-bred rednecks have it, or something to that effect.

Have a nice holier than thou day.

[Mudoria]

31. Exactly!

[Hugabear]

33. Oh please! The Confederate flag absolutely IS a symbol of hatred nowadays

And the fact that ANYBODY would defend it here on DU is appalling. Spare us the "sanctimonious supercillious dickwads" lecture. There is only one reason why anybody would display the Confederate flag so prominently, and that's to intimidate others.

[Obamanaut]

37. My point is this. The only reason anyone starts a thread on this

subject is to stir shit up.

Additionally, the main reason, IMO, that anyone displays a confederate flag prominantly is likewise to stir shit up.

People like to stir it up, but hate to be called on it. So spare me the "faux" outrage (so many here don't like to use "false" or "phony", possibly so readers will imagine they have some sort of "uber" intelligence.

[Hugabear]

51. Only purpose is to stir shit up?

Oh really? And who exactly would be getting stirred up? So now people can't make simple observations here on DU without considering who they might stir up first? Fuck, there are LOTS of comments that get posted on DU every single day that could be considered "stirring shit up" to certain people.

If anybody gets "stirred up" over a topic about the Confederate flag, then there's something fundamentally wrong with that person. And it does seem like you cannot have a discussion about the Confederate flag, even here on DU, without some people rushing in to defend it saying that it's a "symbol of heritage not hate" or "it's not even the real Confederate flag" or "the US flag has been waved by hate groups" - which the poster immediately below me did!

[Obamanaut]

59. Absolutely. And it has worked again. The folks who get really

steamed and vent their "faux" outrage are the anti-south people, the ones who jump right in and condemn any and all who might pass through the doors of walmart with statements such as "Ooh, I wouldn't dream of setting foot inside there", "haven't been in one in seven years", "why do you even go in one"...


No, they get a sense of camaraderie by joining in denouncing whatever is the disdain-du-jour. These are the ones who get the most riled up.

[nini]

45. Exactly.. this topic comes up by the same people all the time

There's no reasoning with them as to the intent of the person is in question NOT the flag itself.



What flag is seen here? Why, it's the stars and stripes - using the same logic that comes up time after time in this stupid endless debate - this means the US flag is also a symbol of racism.

[TankLV]

76. umm - BECAUSE IT IS A ONLY A SYMBOL OF HATE & ONLY INBRED REDNECKS HAVE IT!!!!

and yes, ONLY DICKWADS TRY TO DEFEND THAT FUCKING RAG...!!!

The TRUTH hurts, ya know...

DEAL with it...

[TahitiNut]

63. The Confederate Navy Jack is preferred by Navel-gazing Jack-asses.

:shrug:

[Taverner]

19. Someone here had a banner they made with the Confed flag on fire

And said something like "Burn that rag"

I would love to have a bumper sticker that said exactly that

[AspenRose]

23. Will this do?

http://www.stickergiant.com/get-over-it-you-lost_j18.html



:-)

(Of course, this wouldn't be as pertinent if they're flying it somewhere up north or out west)

[Taverner]

24. LOL I love it!

If they have a magnetic one, I will take it with me when I travel in the South and affix it to my rental car

[Cyrano]

27. Ummm, I wouldn't do that.

I lived in the rural south for a while. At least long enough to know how dangerous it would be to put that bumper sticker on any car you're in.

[Taverner]

28. I can take care of myself

:)

[annabanana]

61. So.. terrorism works huh?

Ya gotta love those places where the law can't (or won't) protect you.

[Ilsa]

42. Let's see if they can read the print on this one:

[Ilsa]

29. Here's one you can bring out when you see him:

[leftofthedial]

30. Southern heritage lives!

In Dixieland I'll take my stand, to live and die in Dixie!


If you don't like it,

Look away, look away, look away Dixieland.

[AspenRose]

34. I'm all for southern heritage....the south has lots of things to be proud of and for

My family is from the south and I grew up in Texas. Therefore it doesn't benefit me to broadbrush anyone. But:

1. Why would you be so PROUD (Pride? Is that the appropriate thing to feel? I don't know!) of being on the losing side of a war, that you feel the need to display the flag from said war at every opportunity, and

2. As others here have already pointed out, this symbol has been displayed all over the US and Canada, not just the south. So why use a symbol of the south when you're up north or out west, unless that symbol is also being used in a provocative way to stir up shit.....er, I mean, to stand for something else?

Showing proper respect for those who died in the Civil War (on both sides), having respect for the sacrifices made, and all that this entails, has nothing to do with (and isn't even remotely related to) what the OP is describing.

[leftofthedial]

39. I don't understand your logic. The US lost in Viet Nam.

The US arguably lost in Korea.

Was the US supposed to go hide its flag in shame until it finally "won" a war?

As for #2, people carry symbols of other locations with them *all the time*. Ever been to a Cinco de Mayo celebration in a US city, or eaten at a Mexican restaurant? How about a "Texas steakhouse" or barbecue joint in, say, Illinois?

I think to nearly all those who display it as described in the OP, the flag in question represents either authentic--if jingoistic--Southern regional pride or a non-geographical "redneckedly" (if I may invent a term) rebellious attitude.

Those who are truly and confrontationally racist are FAR more likely to belong to one of the hate groups who use, not the Southern flag, but the Nazi flag (or variations on it), "christian" crosses, or *the US flag* as the primary symbols of their twisted hate.

Indeed, having disagreed with them frequently over the years, those DUers who periodically go out of their way to make an issue of the "Confederate" flag are the ones who seem unable to let go of the past (poor winners after 140+ years! :shrug:) and who harbor a rancid bigotry of their own.

[proteus_lives]

50. Korea is is not clear-cut.

We fought the Chinese and the North Koreans to a standstill and Stalin and Mao were the reason the war went on for three years. By year two, the leader of North Korea was begging to be allowed to end the war.

[leftofthedial]

67. hence the qualifier "arguably"

[Hugabear]

57. If you don't understand that the Confederate flag represents hatred, then you're an idiot.

There's a HUGE difference between comparing the Confederate flag and the flag of any other country. The Confederacy was never a bonafide sovereign nation - it was a treasonous secessionist movement whose primary purpose was the preservation of slavery. If you don't believe that, then read some of the articles of secession written by some of the seceding states.

And yes, prominent displays of the Confederate flag are meant to intimidate others, to serve as a "FUCK YOU" to society. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognize that the Confederate flag is seen as a hateful and oppressive symbol to a large number of people in this country.

[Dramarama]

66. +1

[leftofthedial]

70. and you have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognize

that the Confederate flag is NOT seen as a hateful and oppressive symbol to a large number of people elsewhere in this country.

Live and let live. Focus on the real racism and hatred that threatens us, and stop jerking off over a piece of cloth or vinyl.

[Hugabear]

75. You mean people like these?

Spin it how you want, but the Confederate flag IS a racist symbol nowadays, I don't give a fuck what you or any other apologists say. How can you honestly expect to "focus on real racism" when you're bending over backwards to defend one of the worst racist symbols in our modern era?

[leftofthedial]

79. Symbol of hate? So is the stars and stripes,

based on your own photos.

The problem is the HATE, not the piece of cloth.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hugabear]

87. Please stop defending the Confederate flag

It represents one of the most reprehensible eras of our country's history. And nowadays it is used primarily to intimidate others. I really have to question the motives of anyone who would defend the Confederate flag so vigorously.

[TankLV]

77. Get a FUCKING CLUE...

that flag is only defended BY THE RACISTS AND BIGOTS!!!

ONLY THE RACISTS AND BIGOTS REFUSE TO SEE THAT FUCKING RAG AS RACIST AND HATEFUL!!!

[leftofthedial]

80. Get a fucking CLUE!

Only pedophiles and practitioners of bestiality make absolutist generalizations.

[BlooInBloo]

73. A liar, more likely.

[leftofthedial]

81. hated by a degenerate scat eater, more likely.

[Libertyfirst]

43. Right on!

[Ilsa]

32. The Stars and Bars was the first official flag of the Confederacy:

The first official flag of the confederacy was the Stars and Bars, and was reported to the provisional congress of the C.S.A. by the flag committee on March 4,1861.

When the Stars and Bars was first raised over the capitol building in Montgomery, it contained seven stars, representing the Confederate States. By the third week of May two more stars were added to the Stars and Bars, representing Virginia and Arkansas. In July the addition of North Carolina and Tennessee increased the number to eleven and finally the admission of Kentucky and Missouri in December brought the circle of stars on the Stars and Bars to thirteen.

snip

The Stars and Bars was used as the official Rebel flag from March 1861 to May of 1863. The pattern and colors of the Stars and Bars did not distinguish it sharply from the Stars and Stripes of the Union. Consequently, considerable confusion was caused on the battlefield. So, the Stars and Bars was replaced by the Stainless Banner in 1863.



The Stainless Banner (I put a blue border on it so it would show up on DU's white page.)

http://arebelflag.net/stars_and_bars.htm

The "battle flag" is a symbol of racist hate. These yahoos are too stupid to get the right flag.

[Obamanaut]

38. Run like the wind! Save yourself! Do not try to explain the differences

in the flags here - you will be chastened. See post 21.

[Ilsa]

41. Duly noted! Hey, it's also a part of American history, but I don't fly

noncurrent flags like the nauseating rebel-wannabees. Like you, I was pointing out how idiotic the battleflag-wearers are about their flag. I guess some people are having a bad day.

[Hugabear]

52. Confederate flag, battle flag - big fucking deal

They both represent a traitorous movement in our country, one that was dedicated to the enslavement of others. Nowadays the only reason anybody publicly displays the Confederate flag is to intimidate others, a big "FUCK YOU" to society.

[armyowalgreens]

74. The confederacy was really nothing more than a bunch of slave lovers...

I don't see why anyone would be proud of any aspect of the confederacy. I consider it a page of ignorance and greed in the history book of america. Nothing more.

Anytime I here someone talk about how the south will rise again, I think they must want slavery and racism. Because that's what the confederacy was. A slave state.

There was nothing good about the confederate states. The entire reason for their existence is a stain on human history. It's embarrassing, frankly.

My point being, that any flag of the confederacy is a flag of racism and slavery. You can't sugar coat shit and expect it to taste nice. Sorry.

[bertman]

89. armyowalgreens, that is the absolute worst, most ignorant broadbrush attack on southerners

that I have ever read. And that's saying something.

[kcass1954]

44. You been driving down Griffin Road in Davie?

Big silver jacked-up RAM truck - driver has a serious case of LDS. I see this particular truck at least once a week - sometimes twice - on Griffin somewhere between 61st Avenue and University Drive.

[Cyrano]

60. Nope, it ain't a silver RAM. I'm seeing a different idiot with the same agenda.

[Xenotime]

46. So true.

Just look at how many NRA members there are. Get them all together at a teabag party and there are the makings of sinister. Sprinkle in a wingnut leader and there could be problems.

[sarcasmo]

49. Saw one today in the back window, it was in a truck. Told the wife that is like shouting to the

World you are a racist when you have a rebel flag in your truck.

[jberryhill]

54. I taught my kids...

That it is the Universal Symbol Of Stupid People, and that if you are really stupid, the government makes you display it.

I was kidding but they didn't realize it (I started early with sarcasm unfortunately).

Months later we were traveling in an area where they show up from time to time, with the windows down, and one of my sons shouts, "Hey, look Dad, that guy has the Universal Sign Of Stupid People on his truck!"

Oy.

[sarcasmo]

62. Kids can get away with saying that stuff at times, nice.

[madeline_con]

56. Start worrying immediately! Why wait?

:eyes:

[spin]

58. When I lived in the Tampa Bay area, I remember a truck...

like the one you described.

I wonder if t was the same one.

[AlCzervik]

68. the flag of losers, let them fly it. You lost, suck it.

[BlooInBloo]

72. Bigots love nothing quite so much as being bigots.

[Horse with no Name]

78. I ventured onto Topix

because someone I know was mentioned and I wanted to see what was said, and I was APPALLED at the blatant racism and hate that is allowed to permeate that site.
It takes less than a 6-pack of lunatics to inflict terror in this country. And they generally ain't brown folks.

[orleans]

83. hate map:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

[deaniac21]

84. get a life.

[Cyrano]

86. deaniac21. It's hard to respond to your post, but let me try.

Oy.

[bertman]

90. Brick. Meet windshield.