Did Air France Flight 447 break up midair?

[babylonsister]

Journalists look at debris of the missing Air France flight 447 after being recovered from the ocean during search operations at Recife's Air Force base CINDACTA III, Brazil, Friday.
Roberto Candia/AP

Did Air France Flight 447 break up midair?

Figuring out what caused the crash could shed light on the safety of composites – new materials replacing traditional metals in many aircraft.

By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the June 12, 2009 edition


New York - Air France Flight 447 may have broken apart in the air, new reports indicate.

A Brazilian newspaper cites unnamed investigators who say an examination of some of the retrieved bodies, which were found as far as 85 miles apart, indicates that the plane may have broken apart before it fell into the Atlantic Ocean on June 1.

The Monitor has not been able to confirm those reports. Still, that possibility adds to the urgency of finding the plane's black boxes. As each hour passes, the signals they send out lose a little strength. By the end of the month, they could fade altogether, turning a difficult search of a mountainous undersea landscape into an all-but-impossible one.

The flight data recorders and any recovered wreckage probably holds the key to the puzzle of what caused the Airbus A330-200 to suddenly drop out of the sky on a routine flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

Finding out what happened is critical to safety experts and engineers, who use what they learn from each accident to prevent others, as well as to increase the safety, reliability, and flexibility of modern aircraft.

more...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0612/p02s07-usgn.html

[timeforpeace]

1. Does a mid-air breakup suggest a bomb?

I know they ruled out terrorism immediately for some reason. Wonder why? Seems even less likely that it would break up due to just a strong storm. Planes would be dropping out of the sky all the time if that was the case.

[onehandle]

3. Not without burn marks. So far none have been reported. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Had it been a bomb somebody would have claimed credit by now.

Unless it wasn't a 'typical' terrorist.

[konnichi wa]

16. I'm not disputing you, I just don't remember...did anyone claim credit on Pan Am 103

many years ago? I know it was eventually traced to some Libyan guys IIRC but wasn't it pretty much a total mystery for a while?
(is 103 the right number?...)

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. I don't remember that anyone did -

and the first thing that came to mind learning about Operation Northwoods was Flight 103.

So, yeah, there are exceptions.

[onehandle]

2. All signs are certainly pointing that way. nt

[harun]

4. Sounds like the black boxes might be in > 20K feet of water. Tough

job ahead of them to find them in that kind of water.

[ladjf]

7. In the future, the black boxes should be configured to be ejected

and parachuted to the surface in case of an impending crash. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

8. and maybe contain flotation devices

so it doesn't go 4 miles under water.

But, maybe it shouldn't be ejected. It should stay with the plane to record everything until (and beyond) the crash.

Or maybe multiple recorders, some of which can eject and float.

[ladjf]

9. Yes. I had in mind utilizing a flotation device and also leaving

at least one box with the main body of the airplane. With a floating location beacon, the ping could be heard for many miles. It light of the crucial need for the data, the cost of engineering the box ejection system would be worth it.

[Statistical]

19. Actually you both are right

The new blackbox system will place cockpit voice recorder & flight data recorder in the same box.

The plane will contain 2 identical boxes, one which stays with the craft and the other which is ejected.

The #1 reason for unrecoverable black box is something in the aircraft crushes it.

[karynnj]

14. Totally different solution is that the info that would go to the black box

is transmitted and stored remotely. This is what various TV people spoke of, mentioning that what is known is information that was transmitted. It might be that black boxes on the planes are technology that is no longer the best we can do.

[ladjf]

15. You might be right. However, the amount of simultaneous data that

is continually collected by the "black boxes" might not be easily transmitted and stored continuously.

I have heard that many of the ships at sea are transmitting their performance parameters continuously to the home office.

[karynnj]

20. If they are not yet at the point of being able to do this - with the redundancy needed to

insure that there are few if any gaps, it is likely they will be at some time.

All of us who are older have seen the amount of data that can be stored or saved enormously increased over our lifetimes. People now routinely carry around devices with more storage than I could access on a mainframe computer - the size of a large room - at a top research arm of major company in 1972. I remember happily trading in a 300 baud terminal for one about 3 times faster in the 1980s. (for taking home to do work)

The interesting thing is that if this were done - in case of trouble, many people could independently troubleshoot it.

[Mika]

5. Happens all the time.

:eyes:

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. I've been mumbling to the housemates that it seems to have been a catastrophic disintegration.

But did it have assistance?

[RamboLiberal]

11. I've been wondering about the composite tail

Remember this is what brought down American Airlines A330 in Nov 91 in NYC.

See reply #25 by leveymg as a good explanation of how composite tail is attached in this thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5812104

And remember they found a large section of intact tail from Air France plane.

[babylonsister]

12. I mentioned this story to my husband

who works in maintenance for an airline, and he also said, if that tail separated, the pilots would have no control over the plane. He said the engines would probably shear off, and the plane would act like a lawn dart. The flight that crashed in Rockaway in Nov 2001 is a case in point.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Check out this thread I posted in LBN - interesting info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3920784&mesg_id=3920784

[cagesoulman]

13. Can we say bomb?

Oh fucking yeah

[uppityperson]

18. Not having burns on the bodies found is more bomb negative that positive. nt