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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:13 AM
Original message
Teacher Claims Conservative Views Led to Loss of Job
Tim Latham, who has spent the last 19 years teaching students American history and government, spent the past school year at a high school in Lawrence, Kan. — and it appears his first year at the school will be his last.

Latham claims it has nothing to do with his abilities as a teacher and everything to do with his conservative politics.

Latham — who was criticized for not airing President Obama's inaugural address during an American history class — says he first realized during a meeting last September with Assistant Principal Jan Gentry that his personal political views weren't making the grade with the rest of the faculty at the 2,000-student Lawrence High School.

<skip>

During Latham's brief meeting with Gentry, he claims Gentry told him his school-affiliated Web site was "too patriotic." The site has links to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, the Air Force, the U.S. Army and other military-and history-related sites.

"I mean, I teach American history and government," Latham explained. "We had been in school not even a month."

He claims the critiques took a personal turn in October, when class lessons began focusing on the presidential race between Obama and John McCain. One student, whom Latham declined to identify, complained to Gentry that he had been too critical of Obama.

<skip>

Latham also said that Gentry asked him about a "McCain-Palin" bumper sticker on his car.

more . . . http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526060,00.html

Here is his school affiliated web site -> http://teacherweb.com/KS/LawrenceHighSchool/Latham/t.stm

Lots of comments on conservative blogs about this. One of his students is claiming that he compared Obama to Hitler and that is is all over the blogs but I can't find that claim in a legitimate news source.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. If he's pushing his conservative views on his students, he should be fired
No student should be forced to sit through a bunch of bullshit right-wing propaganda.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not showing a Historical Inagural Address of the 1st Black President
is quite a bit more then just conservative views. It crosses the line into censorship and provides a grave dis-service to his students.

The school administration did it's job a fired him

nuff said
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I don't think that alone is enough to fire him
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 10:26 AM by proud2BlibKansan
I didn't show Bush's inauguration in 2005 to my students but I did air Obama's. Should I have been fired for bias?
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Were you teaching
a HS history class? A college history class? An elementary school history class?

I think showing Bush's car being egged as he left the inauguration would have been a great history lesson though. :)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. LOL
No but if I was teaching US History I would have felt obligated to air the inauguration. All of them. Even dubya's.

95% of the kids in our school are minorities. We felt that we should show Obama's inauguration because he is such a great role model for our kids. We also knew we would have had a lot of parents complain if we hadn't shown it. And really, most of the time you make decisions like this based on the community your kids live in. Since Lawrence where this teacher was working is so liberal, he was stupid to not air the inauguration. But is that enough to not renew his contract? I say no.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. How would you show the inauguration to all of your history classes?
If the school admins wanted to dedicate the whole day to the inauguration then they should have rented a big TV and had an assembly or ordered that all the classrooms have the show on. Wouldn't that be a policy level kind of thing to do?

The inauguration itself is kind of like the Kentucky Derby- there is more lead in and follow up than the race itself, a lot more. So at best, he could have only shown the actual inauguration to one class.

I probably wouldn't have shown it. I might have turned the TV on to see if there was anything actually going on, but the class would have been a discussion about the peaceful transfer of power and the alternatives to this way of doing things.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. You can tape it
Some of the schools in my district did air it on large screen TVs for all the kids to see. We are an 80% minority district so it was a big deal here and aired in most of our schools.

I am in an elementary school and my principal is a repuke. She said she didn't think we should air it because we really weren't supposed to be watching TV. Then she said "what if the superintendent decided to pop in that day and saw all of us watching TV?" I reminded her our superintendent is African American and I would be willing to bet he was going to watch it himself and likely wouldn't be visiting schools that day. Then she backed down and said to be sure we had it in our lesson plans and then we could let our kids watch it. LOL
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. He says on his website that he was fired because someone said he compared Obama to Hitler.
And it sounds to me, from HIS own "excuses," that he did some "insinuating," if not actually coming out and saying it.

He also says NOTHING about any of those bullshit excuses in the Fox article. I think he's making all that crap up. I think he's a moron, and a lousy teacher, and I think he did compare Obama to Hitler--if not directly, obliquely.

See post 29 for more detail.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. Well he certainly is not a very good teacher
either deliberately or out of his own inadequacies omitting major facts from the lesson he was attempting to teach - That is what got him into trouble - not an overly inquisitive student (whom he eludes to having an obvious bias)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. That isn't why he was let go. His contract, which was for ONE year, was up.
Show me a school district that's adding full-time teachers. Show me one that isn't CUTTING teachers!

The guy had a contract, and it was up. I'm sure the school said "Well, we can fire so-and-so, or we can just not renew Bozo's contract, there."

They did not "fire" him. That's the big lie. They simply did not rehire him after his obligated time, a one-year contract, was up. Take all the Obama and Palin stuff and throw that in the trash. It's not germane--he's just trying to make it so, but it isn't.

His contract was up--that's why he's not working there anymore.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. But he wasn't told he was being non renewed because of budget reductions
And they are advertising his job. So they will be replacing him. His job is not being cut.

The truth is you have to screw up to be non renewed. And did this guy really screw up or is he just a conservative in a very blue community? Like I said upthread, I hate conservatives but if that is the only reason this guy was non renewed, I would have to defend him. Hiring and firing teachers based on their personal political beliefs is just wrong.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. You don't have to scew up to be nonrenewed
Teachers who don't have tenure can be fired at the end of their contract year for any reason whatsoever. And they don't have to tell you the reason.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. I am a teacher; I know that
The reality is that unless they have good cause to nonrenew, they will renew you if you aren't tenured, unless they are cutting positions. And they are not cutting this position, as they have advertised for his replacement. It's all about just cause. And my question is - was this just cause on this school district's part?
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. Did he TEACH the lesson CORRECTLY ?????
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 12:38 PM by FreakinDJ
He claims in his own writing he was not renewed over circumstances beyond his control over a lesson in government. IE: "How was Hitler was elected"

As we were talking about fascism (a gov't that allows private property
ownership but maintains strict control over banking and major industry) a
student asked me what governments were fascist. The term was familiar but he
couldn't remember why. I pointed out that Benito Mussolin (Italy) and Adolf
Hitler (Germany) of WWII were the most famous fascist dictators. Another
student made a comment asking how someone like Hitler gets in power. I
explained that he had actually been DEMOCRACTICALLY ELECTED... something many
people don't realize.
He then became a dictator and took over control of
everything. Another student asked how someone like Hitler could get
elected? I stated that people didn't realize he was going to become the
person he did. Germany was suffering worse than any country in the world
from the Great Depression (economic crisis), Germany was still angry over the
Treaty of Versailles (WWI) and Hitler was a very good public speaker and told
the people exactly what they wanted to hear. He made a lot of promises and
appealed to the masses.
http://www.teacherweb.com/KS/LawrenceHighSchool/Latham/h0.stm


How Hitler Became a Dictator
by Jacob G. Hornberger, Posted June 28, 2004



Whenever U.S. officials wish to demonize someone, they inevitably compare him to Adolf Hitler. The message immediately resonates with people because everyone knows that Hitler was a brutal dictator.

But how many people know how Hitler actually became a dictator? My bet is, very few. I’d also bet that more than a few people would be surprised at how he pulled it off, especially given that after World War I Germany had become a democratic republic.

The story of how Hitler became a dictator is set forth in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer, on which this article is based.

In the presidential election held on March 13, 1932, there were four candidates: the incumbent, Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg, Hitler, and two minor candidates, Ernst Thaelmann and Theodore Duesterberg. The results were:

Hindenburg 49.6 percent
Hitler 30.1 percent
Thaelmann 13.2 percent
Duesterberg 6.8 percent

At the risk of belaboring the obvious, almost 70 percent of the German people voted against Hitler, causing his supporter Joseph Goebbels, who would later become Hitler’s minister of propaganda, to lament in his journal, “We’re beaten; terrible outlook. Party circles badly depressed and dejected.”

Since Hindenberg had not received a majority of the vote, however, a runoff election had to be held among the top three vote-getters. On April 19, 1932, the runoff results were:

Hindenburg 53.0 percent
Hitler 36.8 percent
Thaelmann 10.2 percent


Thus, even though Hitler’s vote total had risen, he still had been decisively rejected by the German people.

On June 1, 1932, Hindenberg appointed Franz von Papen as chancellor of Germany, whom Shirer described as an “unexpected and ludicrous figure.” Papen immediately dissolved the Reichstag (the national congress) and called for new elections, the third legislative election in five months.

Hitler and his fellow members of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party, who were determined to bring down the republic and establish dictatorial rule in Germany, did everything they could to create chaos in the streets, including initiating political violence and murder. The situation got so bad that martial law was proclaimed in Berlin.

Even though Hitler had badly lost the presidential election, he was drawing ever-larger crowds during the congressional election. As Shirer points out,

In one day, July 27, he spoke to 60,000 persons in Brandenburg, to nearly as many in Potsdam, and that evening to 120,000 massed in the giant Grunewald Stadium in Berlin while outside an additional 100,000 heard his voice by loudspeaker.

Hitler’s rise to power


The July 31, 1932, election produced a major victory for Hitler’s National Socialist Party. The party won 230 seats in the Reichstag, making it Germany’s largest political party, but it still fell short of a majority in the 608-member body.

On the basis of that victory, Hitler demanded that President Hindenburg appoint him chancellor and place him in complete control of the state. Otto von Meissner, who worked for Hindenburg, later testified at Nuremberg,

Hindenburg replied that because of the tense situation he could not in good conscience risk transferring the power of government to a new party such as the National Socialists, which did not command a majority and which was intolerant, noisy and undisciplined.
Political deadlocks in the Reichstag soon brought a new election, this one in November 6, 1932. In that election, the Nazis lost two million votes and 34 seats. Thus, even though the National Socialist Party was still the largest political party, it had clearly lost ground among the voters.

Attempting to remedy the chaos and the deadlocks, Hindenburg fired Papen and appointed an army general named Kurt von Schleicher as the new German chancellor. Unable to secure a majority coalition in the Reichstag, however, Schleicher finally tendered his resignation to Hindenburg, 57 days after he had been appointed.

On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Although the National Socialists never captured more than 37 percent of the national vote, and even though they still held a minority of cabinet posts and fewer than 50 percent of the seats in the Reichstag, Hitler and the Nazis set out to to consolidate their power. With Hitler as chancellor, that proved to be a fairly easy task.


The Reichstag fire

On February 27, Hitler was enjoying supper at the Goebbels home when the telephone rang with an emergency message: “The Reichstag is on fire!” Hitler and Goebbels rushed to the fire, where they encountered Hermann Goering, who would later become Hitler’s air minister. Goering was shouting at the top of his lungs,

This is the beginning of the Communist revolution! We must not wait a minute. We will show no mercy. Every Communist official must be shot, where he is found. Every Communist deputy must this very day be strung up.
The day after the fire, the Prussian government announced that it had found communist publications stating,

Government buildings, museums, mansions and essential plants were to be burned down... . Women and children were to be sent in front of terrorist groups.... The burning of the Reichstag was to be the signal for a bloody insurrection and civil war.... It has been ascertained that today was to have seen throughout Germany terrorist acts against individual persons, against private property, and against the life and limb of the peaceful population, and also the beginning of general civil war.
So how was Goering so certain that the fire had been set by communist terrorists? Arrested on the spot was a Dutch communist named Marinus van der Lubbe. Most historians now believe that van der Lubbe was actually duped by the Nazis into setting the fire and probably was even assisted by them, without his realizing it.

Why would Hitler and his associates turn a blind eye to an impending terrorist attack on their national congressional building or actually assist with such a horrific deed? Because they knew what government officials have known throughout history — that during extreme national emergencies, people are most scared and thus much more willing to surrender their liberties in return for “security.” And that’s exactly what happened during the Reichstag terrorist crisis.


Suspending civil liberties

The day after the fire, Hitler persuaded President Hindenburg to issue a decree entitled, “For the Protection of the People and the State.” Justified as a “defensive measure against Communist acts of violence endangering the state,” the decree suspended the constitutional guarantees pertaining to civil liberties:

Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications; and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.
Two weeks after the Reichstag fire, Hitler requested the Reichstag to temporarily delegate its powers to him so that he could adequately deal with the crisis. Denouncing opponents to his request, Hitler shouted, “Germany will be free, but not through you!” When the vote was taken, the result was 441 for and 84 against, giving Hitler the two-thirds majority he needed to suspend the German constitution. On March 23, 1933, what has gone down in German history as the “Enabling Act” made Hitler dictator of Germany, freed of all legislative and constitutional constraints.


The judiciary under Hitler

One of the most dramatic consequences was in the judicial arena. Shirer points out,

Under the Weimar Constitution judges were independent, subject only to the law, protected from arbitrary removal and bound at least in theory by Article 109 to safeguard equality before the law.
In fact, in the Reichstag terrorist case, while the court convicted van der Lubbe of the crime (who was executed), three other defendants, all communists, were acquitted, which infuriated Hitler and Goering. Within a month, the Nazis had transferred jurisdiction over treason cases from the Supreme Court to a new People’s Court, which, as Shirer points out,

soon became the most dreaded tribunal in the land. It consisted of two professional judges and five others chosen from among party officials, the S.S. and the armed forces, thus giving the latter a majority vote. There was no appeal from its decisions or sentences and usually its sessions were held in camera. Occasionally, however, for propaganda purposes when relatively light sentences were to be given, the foreign correspondents were invited to attend.
One of the Reichstag terrorist defendants, who had angered Goering during the trial with a severe cross-examination of Goering, did not benefit from his acquittal. Shirer explains:

The German communist leader was immediately taken into “protective custody,” where he remained until his death during the second war.
In addition to the People’s Court, which handled treason cases, the Nazis also set up the Special Court, which handled cases of political crimes or “insidious attacks against the government.” These courts

consisted of three judges, who invariably had to be trusted party members, without a jury. A Nazi prosecutor had the choice of bringing action in such cases before either an ordinary court or the Special Court, and invariably he chose the latter, for obvious reasons. Defense lawyers before this court, as before the Volksgerichtshof, had to be approved by Nazi officials. Sometimes even if they were approved they fared badly. Thus the lawyers who attempted to represent the widow of Dr. Klausener, the Catholic Action leader murdered in the Blood Purge, in her suit for damages against the State were whisked off to Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where they were kept until they formally withdrew the action.
Even lenient treatment by the Special Court was no guarantee for the defendant, however, as Pastor Martin Niemoeller discovered when he was acquitted of major political charges and sentenced to time served for minor charges. Leaving the courtroom, Niemoeller was taken into custody by the Gestapo and taken to a concentration camp.

The Nazis also implemented a legal concept called Schutzhaft or “protective custody” which enabled them to arrest and incarcerate people without charging them with a crime. As Shirer put it,

Protective custody did not protect a man from possible harm, as it did in more civilized countries. It punished him by putting him behind barbed wire.
On August 2, 1934, Hindenburg died, and the title of president was abolished. Hitler’s title became Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor. Not surprisingly, he used the initial four-year “temporary” grant of emergency powers that had been given to him by the Enabling Act to consolidate his omnipotent control over the entire country.


Accepting the new order

Oddly enough, even though his dictatorship very quickly became complete, Hitler returned to the Reichstag every four years to renew the “temporary” delegation of emergency powers that it had given him to deal with the Reichstag-arson crisis. Needless to say, the Reichstag rubber-stamped each of his requests.

For their part, the German people quickly accepted the new order of things. Keep in mind that the average non-Jewish German was pretty much unaffected by the new laws and decrees. As long as a German citizen kept his head down, worked hard, took care of his family, sent his children to the public schools and the Hitler Youth organization, and, most important, didn’t involve himself in political dissent against the government, a visit by the Gestapo was very unlikely.

Keep in mind also that, while the Nazis established concentration camps in the 1930s, the number of inmates ranged in the thousands. It wouldn’t be until the 1940s that the death camps and the gas chambers that killed millions would be implemented. Describing how the average German adapted to the new order, Shirer writes,

The overwhelming majority of Germans did not seem to mind that their personal freedom had been taken away, that so much of culture had been destroyed and replaced with a mindless barbarism, or that their life and work had become regimented to a degree never before experienced even by a people accustomed for generations to a great deal of regimentation.... The Nazi terror in the early years affected the lives of relatively few Germans and a newly arrived observer was somewhat surprised to see that the people of this country did not seem to feel that they were being cowed.... On the contrary, they supported it with genuine enthusiasm. Somehow it imbued them with a new hope and a new confidence and an astonishing faith in the future of their country.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp




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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. You need to apply for his job! NT
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. They are? I missed that in the article.
I found the reason he said he was fired on his own website. It said nothing about the Palin bumper sticker OR the "overly patriotic" website OR not showing the inauguration. It said nothing about his conservative views not being in lockstep with the administration.

All he said is that he was accused of comparing Obama to Hitler, and it's the fault of some mean old troublemaking girl in his class. I posted his screed in post twenty nine.

The guy sounds like a stupid fucking nitwit. Unless Lawrence High, "the Home of the Chesty Lion," is in the habit of graduating functional idiots, they did a good thing getting rid of that guy. He writes like an adolescent -- a STUPID adolescent.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. We'd have to know more than the article offers to consider your assessment sound.
Even when there are outs like contract expirations, there are decisions made and reasons for those decisions. If they didn't renew any of the one year people, then they should have said so in their defense, as that statement would not violate any of their confidentiality (ass covering) policies.

If they chose to get rid of Latham because they don't like his bumper sticker, then while it might not be actionable, it's still wrong. In the course of my work, I have the occasional opportunity to punish someone I suspect of being a right wingnut. I see rising above that urge to be part of being a liberal.

I can name a couple of professors currently working who in my opinion have no business teaching college (and by extension any school). But the reason I would fire these people (two in particular) is because they teach myths, distortions, or outright lies, not because of their view of the facts.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. The best and brightest young teachers are getting the axe all over
--and they aren't contract workers, either. Last hired, first fired. If they have five contract teachers, but they have a greater need for the four that teach math and science, then social studies has to go.

I don't think this guy has a case. He knows it, too, that's why he's inventing a myth of persecution in hopes of muddying the waters and getting conservative activists to make a stink on his behalf.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. The school district is replacing him
So he is not being fired because they need to let Social Studies teachers go.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #27
40. You keep saying that, but I've read the article twice and haven't found that part.
Can you point me to the bit I am missing?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. I thought that was in his statement?
Maybe I saw it on his Facebook page. There are a lot of links for this story but I only posted the one to the MSM story.

I will go back and find where I saw that. But my Internet access is messed up today so it might take awhile. I am posting from my phone now and can't copy and paste links. So give me some time.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. +1
"I see rising above that urge to be part of being a liberal."

Amen.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Gotta love "right to work"
Perhaps Mr. Latham could complain to his union. (But somehow, I suspect he's not a member.)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Even strong union places usually have no problem with the "one year tryout"
Sometimes, people look good at the start, and turn out to be flakes. My town has aggressive teacher union reps, but they don't have a problem with the old "taste and try, if you don't like, don't buy" approach to new hires.

Here's why the guy himself says he was fired--in his OWN words, on his own (really amateurish) website. Funny how he has since embellished this story -- in this statement that he wrote on the school website, he says it's because of the "rumor" below, but notice that there's no mention of his excessively "patriotic" website or his McCain Palin sticker, which are the reasons he gave in the Faux News article...he thought that shit up later, apparently.

This guy's main problem, I think, is that he's Not Too Bright--he writes like an overly earnest teen-ager: http://www.teacherweb.com/KS/LawrenceHighSchool/Latham/h0.stm


There has been a rumor going around that the main reason I was non-renewed is
because I supposedly compared Obama to Hitler. I have been receiving some
pretty nasty e-mails about it so I feel I must speak.

This is completely and totally false. I NEVER compared Obama to Hitler.

This is what happened and where the rumor comes from:

In a good GOVERNMENT class you learn about ALL forms of government. On one
particular day we were discussing the various forms of government; i.e.
Democracy, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, etc. The difference between
dictators, Prime Ministers, and Presidents, etc. We talked about many
differences between the Democratic and Republican platforms. You have to
understand I had VERY GOOD students who asked great questions leading to
great discussions.

As we were talking about fascism (a gov't that allows private property
ownership but maintains strict control over banking and major industry) a
student asked me what governments were fascist. The term was familiar but he
couldn't remember why. I pointed out that Benito Mussolin (Italy) and Adolf
Hitler (Germany) of WWII were the most famous fascist dictators. Another
student made a comment asking how someone like Hitler gets in power. I
explained that he had actually been DEMOCRACTICALLY ELECTED... something many
people don't realize. He then became a dictator and took over control of
everything. Another student asked how someone like Hitler could get
elected? I stated that people didn't realize he was going to become the
person he did. Germany was suffering worse than any country in the world
from the Great Depression (economic crisis), Germany was still angry over the
Treaty of Versailles (WWI) and Hitler was a very good public speaker and told
the people exactly what they wanted to hear. He made a lot of promises and
appealed to the masses.

About 15 minutes later into the class we were discussing McCain and Obama
again and what people liked about them, what each ones chances were of
getting elected, etc. And yes, I did mention, that the best thing going for
Obama was that he was an eloquent speaker, people were unhappy with the wars
in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the economy was looking bad. ALL points being
covered in the news every day, by every political pundit in the world.

There is a girl in that particular class who LOVED to argue and who was a
major Obama supporter. Made for good debates sometimes, sometimes
frustration. This is one of those frustration times. THE STUDENT HERSELF is
the one who, after I made the above statement about Obama, that said "so
you're comparing Obama to Hitler?" As soon as she said it, before I could
even speak, several other students (who were used to argueing with her)
stated that is not what I said. I myself repeatedly said no I was not
comparing the two. I did admit that the "situation" for them to get elected
is similiar
but I in no way thought that Obama was in any way like Hitler. I
repeated that statement more than once since she wanted to argue it, no I WAS
NOT comparing Obama to Hitler. I pointed out that those situations are
common in many elections; i.e. using the economy, an unpopular war (see
Vietnam), etc. in order to gain support for an election. Not good enough, she
went straight to the Asst. Prinicipal and said I was picking on Obama and
comparing him to Hitler. I was called in, I explained everything that
happened exactly like I have just stated, and I thought, that was that.
Evidently not.

That is the true story. You decide for yourself.




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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. I didn't like his story either BUT
was he penalized for supposedly comparing Obama to Hilter? Did they investigate? The vp could have easily interviewed other kids in the class to find out if he indeed had compared Obama to Hitler. If it happened the way he reported, he didn't do anything wrong. But if the student is right, he was wrong. Now is that enough to non-renew him? I say no.

I am also assuming the teachers in this district have a contract that lays out the procedure for non-renewing teachers. If the district violated it, he should get his job back.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. They should non-renew him for being stupid. If that is how a typical high school teacher writes,
then I am frankly quite surprised that more kids nowadays don't have difficulty succeeding in this world.

His little rant sounds like something written by a pissed off cheerleader who didn't make the varsity squad.

His reasoning for his firing, when he wrote that screed, was quite simple. One single reason, (very) simply put. Now, he's had time to think about it, and he's gilding the lily in the FauxSnooze piece. He's racking his little brain, trying desperately to come up with additional "slights" to pile on that will justify his "I'm a beset conservative" POV.

I think he "insinuated" that Obama was like Hitler, and that was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Who knows what else he "insinuated" over the course of the year? The fact that the guy admits that he "favored" McCain-Palin is telling. Did he only favor them "a bit," like he didn't "really" (even though, like, ya know, the "circumstances" are similar) compare Obama to Hitler?

Children do not need to learn history, government and social studies from people with a virulent POV. If the teacher can't keep that shit at home--and IMO, that includes bumper stickers (certainly, they have the "freedom" to display them, but the decision to so do goes to their pisspoor judgment) they're just not good teachers. They're indoctrinators.

Good teachers teach children HOW to think. Bad ones teach them WHAT to think.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. But is that in the contract?
Can they fire a teacher for being stupid? Seems like the smart thing would have been not to hire him in the first place. It's not like stupid all of a sudden hits. LOL
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Lots of teachers make a "good appearance" at the outset.
Sometimes they get tired of the classroom, some can't handle the routine or the stress, some realize, after four years of college, that they HATE the work, they hate the kids, they hate the "school clique," and some can put a respectable sentence together in a verbal exchange but once they start putting pen to paper, you realize that they have the soul and writing talent of a seventh grader.

This assclown is one of the latter--plus, I do think he doesn't know how to leave his politics at home.

Like I say, the good ones don't teach kids what to think, they teach them how to think. He just wasn't a good one.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #41
67. Well, his writing is significantly better than that of my daughter's 11th grade HONORS English
teacher.
Her writing and her assignments are pitiful. And this in a "Blue Ribbon" school... :banghead:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. How sad. Your daughter's teacher must write like a middle schooler, then! nt
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. yes he was a member
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 11:22 AM by proud2BlibKansan
on edit: All labor laws don't apply to teachers. I teach in a union state but our union membership is voluntary since we are public employees. It is also against state law for us to go on strike.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. I didn't show it to mine, either.
Of course, no one pretended that it was part of my job to do so. We acknowledged that it was happening, I set my computer to live stream if the server could take the overload, and then we went on with other business. We didn't connect until it was over, and the talking heads were rehashing. Too many other classrooms trying to live stream at the same time. No one in the room was devastated. It's not like they hadn't had ample time to discuss the election, and the ramifications, since the first day of school.

They knew it would be replayed.

It sounds like this teacher crossed a line by allowing his personal politics to bleed onto school grounds. That shouldn't happen. The offense is that a person in a position of influence used that position for political purposes with minors. Not that he didn't turn on the tv in the classroom.


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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Would it be the same for left-wing propaganda? n/t
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 10:22 AM by Fountain79
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I don't see any evidence that he did that
Of course if he did compare Obama to Hitler, then he needs to be fired. But I can't find proof of that either.

The underlying unknown here is that Lawrence is a very liberal community and a conservative teacher wouldn't be tolerated there by many parents. And if he really was fired just because he is a conservative, as much as I loathe them, I have to side with the teacher and say this is unfair.

A lot of 'ifs'. LOL
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yup, fire the dude...he is a Cancer causing asshole....polluting young minds with Pub Shit
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 10:32 AM by opihimoimoi
is despicable and deplorable...

He is out of touch with changing times

******

I suspect he violated the Hatch Act with stickers on his car...etc...
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. isn't his union helping him with this?
oh yeah. that's right, conservatives don't believe in unions - they think employees should deal individually with employers. Unions only protect bad employees.

They also believe in at-will employment.

In that case, I'd just tell him to suck it up and find another job
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yes his union is involved
They are claiming his first amendment rights were violated. I find that a strange defense for a teacher (I don't believe teachers have first amendment rights to indoctrinate kids) but I was glad to see he was a union member.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. I hope the irony isn't lost on him
someone whose ideology is opposed to unions being defended by one
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, fachrissake....his first year at the school will be his last
Last hired, first fired. That's how it works.

No one gives a shit if he taught at HARVARD prior to his being hired by a particular school district. It's all about tenure, and time on the payroll.

What a dipshit. Any excuse but the obvious one.

Hell, in NH a new teacher with cancer got the axe. She's got something to cry about.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. She does, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference
Everybody feels sorry for her but the school has every legal right to fire a nontenured teacher.
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Riley18 Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. As a first year teacher the district does not have to renew his contract.
The district I teach in has the option for the first three years to not renew for the following year. Once a teacher has tenure then it is different. He may not be the great teacher he claims he is....just saying:)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. GOOD! Fire them all. Maybe them they'll get out of the way.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
19. My best history teacher in high school was a conservative
I said "best" on purpose. He was the best, not my favorite, the best. By being the best he became in retrospect my favorite.

He was no nonsense in a school with an excess of nonsense. He was a teacher of history because he believed it to be important, because he loved it, unlike some other teachers of history who believed it to be an easy degree with an easy paycheck, or something one does in between coaching team sports.

I despised him at first. But it was his love of this country and his love of history that kept me from getting bored with education. He would argue with you, whereas the clock punchers would simply declare you to be wrong or disruptive. He would teach you how to argue, whereas the justshowingup teachers would disallow legitimate differences of opinion. He was assertive, they were doctrinal.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Was his name Mr. Vose?

:shrug:

He was my history teacher at school, and it sounds like how I would describe HIM.

Very conservative*, but an awesome teacher.



* not conservative like the whackos today...I'm talking old-school conservative.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. He went by his military (ret) title. Very southern. I want to say Colonel Scott
But I might be getting confused with Rocky Horror Picture Show.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. This guy was retired Navy.
And despite the obvious connection, I never saw him in fishnet stockings.

:P

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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
69. Two of my favorite *and* best profs were
One in history and one in political science. They were both very good at keeping their politics out of the grade books. Didn't bother trying to hide them in or out of class, but they both refused to evaluate based on them (though they both did encourage people to back up their own views). One of them got a few teaching awards; students would try to get into his classes months in advance, and a C from him felt like an A+ in other courses.

The history prof also taught one of my favorite high school teachers. I could never get heads or tails of his views because he was a Scary Motherfucker You Don't Talk About That To type of guy, but he had some substantial teach-fu. One of his gimmicks was asking some basic question about an event - what happened here, who did X, etc - and, upon getting the correct answer, asking people to explain why that happened. If they did that, he'd ask them the same thing for the preceding event in the chain, and so on and so forth. If you could follow something three or five links back, only then was he satisfied that you got it rather than just memorized the trivia.

I've had some grade-based-on-your-views instructors both in high school and college (one last year wrecked my graduate degree and several classmates', for which I'm still fuming), but those guys were not among them.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. It sounds like he couldn't keep his politics out of the classroom.
If the administration had spoken to him about it, and he was unwilling to tone down his approach, they didn't make any mistakes here. It's not his "views" that are the problem, it's his presenting those views to his students as facts.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Because he didn't air the inauguration?
What other evidence do you see that he "couldn't keep his politics out of the classroom"?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. Maybe because he uses language like this to describe a student.
There is a girl in that particular class who LOVED to argue and who was a
major Obama supporter.


That sentence alone has "Waaaah, waaaaah!" written all over it.

This man is an idiot. If they videotaped the classes, I'll bet you a donut that he'd be caught on tape, if not flat out comparing Obama to Hitler, smirking mightily while he said "Oh no, but the 'circumstances' of their elections are the same."

If it walks like a duck, it's a duck. This guy is quacking like mad.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. It was mainly this:
"Latham says he supported McCain because of the Arizona senator's military service and lengthy political experience. He admitted to offering students critical viewpoints of Obama due to his lack of experience compared to McCain."
... and that's from Fox News.
It doesn't mention him "offering critical viewpoints" about McCain.

Yes, I may be reading more into this than I should, but the article was clearly written by people who agree with this teacher, and it still doesn't make him look like he was discriminated against for his "views" rather than his behavior.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. They said his website was "too patriotic". What the fuck does that mean?
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 11:13 AM by imdjh
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
42. I agree. You don't write paragraphs about how you really didn't compare Obama to Hitler,
and blame a student for being a troublemaker, if your hands are clean.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. I doubt anyone described his website as "too patriotic."
I'm betting it was more along the lines of "too jingoistic."

:eyes:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Because there are flags on it?
What makes it "jingoistic"?
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
64. I'm guessing his "What I Think" and "Links" pages were something
before they were scrubbed.

Just a guess.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. It's blocked on the way back machine
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 01:03 PM by noamnety
but I suspect you are right.

I would have loved to see his "terrorism" page. :eyes:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. LOL That was the first link I went to as well
And I was disappointed there was nothing there.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. I think he made that up entirely, myself. They might have said "too amateurish" because that's the
truth!

His own words on his website list just ONE reason for his firing--he insists that he really DIDN'T compare Obama to Hitler.

That's the only reason he gives. None of this other "boo hoo" stuff about his conservative views. Nothing about the website, nothing about the McCain-Palin sticker, nothing about the Inauguration, nothing about school administrators criticizing his views, nothing about anything--except calling Obama Hitler. And then he blames some troublemaking girl in his class for his woes!

Funny how the story changes as time passes. You don't see a word about Obama and Hitler in the Fox piece--but that is ALL you see on his website.

I say go back to the beginning. That's usually where the truth lies.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
43. Conservative views have led THOUSANDS of teachers to lose their jobs.
I guess he didn't mean it that way though.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
44. There's not enough evidence for me to judge one way or the other
His website is certainly patriotic, but that's no reason to fire the man. I do see that the site was updated yesterday, so perhaps he scrubbed the more outrageous stuff.

He certainly comes across as conservative, but again, that's no reason to fire him.

Not taping and playing Obama's inauguration speech is poor teaching, but certainly not enough to fire the man.

It really comes down to what he did in the classroom, and without objective evidence of his actions, I don't see a reason to be fired. Kids can and do lie about goes on in the classroom. Thus I would like to see some objective reports as to why this guy was fired.

It's also well known that conservatives like to make themselves out to be political martyrs when the real reason that they were fired was due to their incompetence. Again, objective administrative reports would be the only way to determine the matter.

I find it hard to believe that a teacher in Kansas, even in Lawrence, would be fired for being conservative or patriotic. My sneaking suspicion in this case is that the guy wasn't meeting the standards of the school and the district and isn't getting his contract renewed. If he is being fired simply for a conservative, then the actions of the school are simply wrong, and this guy should win the lawsuit lottery. However if he was interjecting too much of his politics into the classroom, then he needs to be canned, and he needs to stop whining.
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cagesoulman Donating Member (648 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. I think he was fired for his LAME study habits info.
http://teacherweb.com/KS/LawrenceHighSchool/Latham/hf4.stm

Who fucking rewrites their fucking notes? Just read'm over, morons.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Um, smart people?
Jeez louise. I've rewritten my notes for my PhD (in History, btw) about a million times.
For some people, rewriting things helps the notes stick in their brain. But you're so flippin' smart, I'm sure you knew that.:eyes:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. I rewrote mine when I was a student; it's a great study technique
And there is research behind this. When you write anything down you are sending a signal to your brain.

Learning styles also come into play. Some students learn more by rereading the notes while others are helped by actually reading them AND copying them.
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geek_sabre Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. I do... nt
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
71. I rewrote my notes to study for preliminary and comprehensive exams in my PhD program.
Great way to review. Frankly, more students need to do this.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. This guys just a dumbass regardless of what his political views are
fox news is always trying to couch every story they run in terms of liberal v. conservative. That is easy for their stupid audience to grasp and feel resentment over. Not that anyone of them could ever define exactly what a "liberal" or "conservative" actually is.

So this dumb teacher, for whatever reason, comes off a little to partisan in his class discussions. Students bitch. The district decides on balance, with all the other problems they have, they don't need this kind of controversy in their classrooms so when the guy's contract is up for renewal they say no. I'm not sure they even gave a reason, or were required to do so.

So the asshole whines about the non renewal, citing the Obama = Hitler thing, and fox gets wind of it. They send a reporter out to interview him. Dumbass goes on a roll and blurts out every paranoid fantasy he has dreamed up in his fevered little mind since he got non renewed (McCain bumper sticker, "patriotic" Web site, didn't show inauguration), or maybe things has has believed his whole life.

Fox reporter, listening to all this whining, believes she has died and gone to heaven (How easy is it to fit this story into the fox mold) and ties this entire bundle up into yet another persecuted "conservative" (whatever the hell that is).

He should be shitcanned just for being frickin ignorant. Besides, he looks like a coach with that crew cut.


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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
53. Prayer doesn't belong on his school website:
Here's what I found, poking around there:

"Prayer Wheel

"Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us.
Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. Amen."

Prayer :

When you read this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer
for our ground troops in Afghanistan, sailors on ships, and airmen in the air,
and for those in Iraq. If you haven't learned to pray then ask someone how.

Of the gifts you could give a US Soldier, Sailor, Coastguardsman, Marine
or Airman, prayer is the very best one."
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Good find. I agree it shouldn't be there.
But is that enough to non-renew him?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. I suspect that wasn't the only thing.
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 01:06 PM by noamnety
It looks like he was using his website to proselytize to his students. That should have been cause for a reprimand on its own, and should have had an immediate fix on his part. Who knows how much of that he was doing in the classroom as well. It certainly shows bad judgment and an inability to distinguish appropriate teacher behavior in a public school. And it's scary if the CIVICS teacher doesn't get the concept of separation of church and state. That alone would make me question whether he's qualified to teach that subject.

Along with that, it looks like he was trying to militarize and recruit his students as well.

Given the poor judgment there - where a teacher has time to edit their words and think about how they should present themselves before they publish it on the school site, I suspect his words in the classroom where he doesn't have a chance to edit were probably far more inappropriate.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
60. The "What I think" link brings up a blank page.
I think the "what is a soldier" link is objectionable to school officials because it shows firearms. It seems they're terribly squeamish about any images or discussions of weapons.
I've seen teachers redirect innocuous student discussions of general characteristics of particular weapons. It's rabid fear of firearms, I think.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
74. He probably scrubbed it. Either that, or he doesn't think! nt
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geek_sabre Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. I read that he
had the students read & discuss the inaugural speech that day in class, which is appropriate, and gives each class the same experience. Its not like the students will never have the opportunity to see it (paging youtube?)

I hope his non-renewal was just a coincidence.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. Our son's ultra-conservative history teacher
gave him shit all year long, especially during the election. There was one point in time where ds really wanted to drop the class and pick it up next year, even though history has always been his favorite subject and best class.

I encouraged him to stay--why? Because I know that conservatives are everywhere and the earlier ds learned to deal with them the better. Ds not only ended up with a 112 average in the class, but his teacher nominated him to go on a special trip to DC which only certain kids in this district may go on (only by teacher nomination). While their views are worlds apart, the teacher made it very clear to ds at the end of the year that he respected my son because he took his job as a student seriously AND loved the subject, even if taught from an opposing point of view.

I guess the point is that it's possible for learning to happen even in an antagonist environment, but it takes the right kind of attitude to do that.
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