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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:37 AM Original message |
How many lives to support one life? Questions from a 20-year vegetarian. |
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Fovea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:40 AM Response to Original message |
1. Ten Thousand Broccoli. |
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semillama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:45 PM Response to Reply #1 |
75. Who will hear the cries of the carrots? n/t |
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Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #1 |
86. Stupid. |
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Fovea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:18 AM Response to Reply #86 |
160. Will you then eat vat grown meat |
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dorkulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 01:41 AM Response to Reply #160 |
168. I will. It's ethicalicious! nt |
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G_j (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:45 AM Response to Original message |
2. it would be nice to see a thoughtful discussion |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:02 PM Response to Reply #2 |
63. Aren't thoughtful discussions against the rules now? n/t |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:52 AM Response to Original message |
3. i think what you eat is a personal deciscion, if you want to be veggie fine |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:01 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. Who said anything about force? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:08 AM Response to Reply #7 |
9. okay whats the obvious questions that you have |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:19 AM Response to Reply #9 |
14. I think most of the ones in the first paragraph are ones that present themselves readily |
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michreject (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:54 AM Response to Original message |
4. I'm doing my part |
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Vickers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 09:59 AM Response to Original message |
5. My oldest kid has been a vegetarian for about 3 months now. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:14 AM Response to Reply #5 |
11. Well, if it helps, it's probably not easy for her either |
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Vickers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:27 AM Response to Reply #11 |
21. "Instead of deciding that her bullshit and her diet aren't worth her effort" |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:56 AM Response to Reply #21 |
41. well, come on |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #11 |
23. You beat me to the post! n/t |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #5 |
19. If she's on her own to scrounge for food |
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Vickers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:32 AM Response to Reply #19 |
27. We always have plenty of healthy food around for her to eat. |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #27 |
34. I say - put her to work then! |
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jmowreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:48 AM Response to Reply #27 |
36. How much of the bullshit is of the "meat is murder" variety? |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #5 |
20. Twenty-years ago my son an daughter stopped eating meat (for different reasons), but |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
93. LOL - I got so anemic when I was a 20 year old vegan |
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Jane in Texas (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
6. No, I don't believe other species lives are as "rich" as our own |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:15 AM Response to Reply #6 |
12. Can we be said to value our lives more than an animal values its? |
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Johonny (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:19 AM Response to Reply #12 |
15. You are a plant murderer |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #15 |
24. +10 |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #15 |
35. Of course one can make any position look ridiculous by extension. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #35 |
96. What's absurd about it? All humans take life by eating |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:41 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. They've probably convinced themselves of that because plants are NOT sentient. n/t |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:44 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. Plants respond to stimuli |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. A computer can respond to stimuli. Is a computer sentient? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. I do AI research. My answer might disappoint you |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:56 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. That's really cool, I'm a big fan of Terminator. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:58 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. Skynet was supposed to already be self-aware in the movie... |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:01 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. Re: the dog and the broccoli |
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dorkulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 01:46 AM Response to Reply #100 |
169. Maybe, but they taste terrible |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #96 |
104. I didn't say it's absurd. I said that using it as an argument is commonly |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:56 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. I shouldn't be thin-skinned on this (none of us should, but we tend to be) |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:06 PM Response to Reply #107 |
111. I didn't say "should" about anything, but not to be disingenuous, I admit |
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Veruca Salt (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #15 |
53. +1 |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:04 PM Response to Reply #12 |
65. pompous assity strikes again... |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:20 PM Response to Reply #65 |
71. I'm someone who hates to see a life squandered. Who are you not to? |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:39 PM Response to Reply #71 |
74. who are you to judge what squandering is. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:31 PM Response to Reply #74 |
83. Of course there's always using enjoyment (and a simplistic sense thereof) as the only criterion. |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 05:26 PM Response to Reply #83 |
147. what factor would you say is more important in living life than enjoyment..? |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 06:50 PM Response to Reply #147 |
150. What are you saying? It's all relative? Fox television news and The New York Times? |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 07:23 PM Response to Reply #150 |
152. you seem like the kind of person who LOVES to hear himself talk... |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 07:30 PM Response to Reply #152 |
153. So why have kids do their homework instead of watching cartoons? |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 07:41 PM Response to Reply #153 |
154. because they are kids. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 07:57 PM Response to Reply #154 |
155. Some people are blind to qualitative judgments (though they make them all the time |
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Petals (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 01:39 AM Response to Reply #155 |
167. No he raises a good point..... |
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Irreverend IX (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 03:32 AM Response to Reply #150 |
158. Shakespeare was "Joe Sixpack" entertainment in his day. |
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noiretextatique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #71 |
103. i like the way you think |
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noiretextatique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #65 |
95. someone who sits and watches tv for thirty years |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 05:28 PM Response to Reply #95 |
148. "i am sick of america's joesixpack mentality" |
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noiretextatique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 06:04 PM Response to Reply #148 |
149. i live in a progressive city with lots of artists, musicians, poets |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 06:57 PM Response to Reply #149 |
151. But if ten million Joe Sixpacks enjoy Singer Twang, he should be the equal |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:06 AM Response to Original message |
8. We'd do more good if we got sterilized and ate a steak every night. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:23 AM Response to Reply #8 |
17. How to cure all human disease, madness, vice, etc.: stop having kids. (Logic?) |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #17 |
61. How to avoid all strawmen: stop reading DU |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:23 PM Response to Reply #61 |
72. I guess I should have used a smiley face. Irony for some, is too hard a case, |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:59 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. On DU? There's no statement that's too outrageous to be taken seriously |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:08 AM Response to Original message |
10. Comparing humans who naturally act on their omnivore nature to "slave proponents 160 years ago" is.. |
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Johonny (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:16 AM Response to Reply #10 |
13. I agree |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:42 AM Response to Reply #10 |
32. You guys sound like you're on Fox! Who said anything like moral equivalence? |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:48 AM Response to Reply #32 |
37. in your opinion it is morally unhealthy etc to eat meat, as to why wear furs, cause they are warm |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:05 AM Response to Reply #37 |
44. You take a single strand of an argument and comment on that. |
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Veruca Salt (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #37 |
56. 'nothing like that nice crisp bacon on a bed of cheese and toasted to perfection bread in the mornin |
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Coventina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:21 AM Response to Original message |
16. *sigh* Here's my post before the flame war: |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:25 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. lol its like youve read the script |
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HopeHoops (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:28 AM Response to Original message |
22. I'm in the 20 year + club also - so is my wife. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:32 AM Response to Reply #22 |
28. i hope not, though neither do puffins, rabbits or deer scream when cut open, as they are already dea |
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quakerboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:14 PM Response to Reply #22 |
69. Yes, they do |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:29 AM Response to Original message |
25. I put as much thought and care into eating meat as I do vegetables and fruits. |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:42 AM Response to Reply #25 |
50. You could be ruining your partners sex life! |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:00 PM Response to Reply #50 |
60. From putting equal thought into eating plants and animals? who knew? |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:13 PM Response to Reply #60 |
133. You won't eat people...... |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:16 PM Response to Reply #133 |
135. oh. oh my. yes, well, there's eating and then there's eating |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #135 |
159. I'm relieved.... |
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Richard D (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
26. Eating meat is . . . |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:44 AM Response to Reply #26 |
51. Now if we could only do something about the oceans. |
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Ron Green (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
29. Public policy could and should encourage just the habits you name; |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. well if the policies try to force people to be veggies, then nanny statism is appropriate |
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Ron Green (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:43 AM Response to Reply #30 |
33. I think that when a typical family week of eating includes |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:51 AM Response to Reply #33 |
38. Education isnt going to teach people that meat dosent taste darn good |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:52 AM Response to Reply #30 |
39. I assume you are aware that the meat industries are heavily subsidized by our tax dollars |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:02 AM Response to Reply #39 |
42. sorry no state told me what to eat, as i said i grew up eating everything that grew, crawled etc |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:36 AM Response to Reply #42 |
46. I am not saying the state should tell us what to eat |
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NoodleyAppendage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
31. Sorry I can't respond right now, I need to slaughter a calf. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 10:54 AM Response to Reply #31 |
40. It's funny. I never hear "the meat thing." Maybe I'm not listening (very likely) |
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MicaelS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
43. Vegetarians / Vegans / PETAns are like religious zealots |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:12 AM Response to Reply #43 |
45. Gee, I thought it was a serious of mildly provocative questions, not a rant. |
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unpossibles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #45 |
54. You were not ranting one bit |
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G_j (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #43 |
47. wrong |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #47 |
52. To be credible one should respond to what one reads and not what one didn't. I wrote: |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:48 AM Response to Reply #43 |
57. People who eat horses get the same song. nt |
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Ignis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:05 PM Response to Reply #43 |
66. Bullshit. |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #43 |
91. And I find Texans to mostly be loud, obnoxious bigots. |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:40 AM Response to Original message |
48. Why do vegetarians continually devalue the life worth of plants? |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:59 AM Response to Reply #48 |
59. That's a real question! And one worth debate. (Some plants desire to be eaten, by the way.) |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:03 PM Response to Reply #59 |
64. Some animals desire to be injested as well |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:11 PM Response to Reply #64 |
68. Smartly said! Received as well. |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #48 |
89. Ooh, I'd love to see this "evidence." |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #89 |
113. Some evidence for you. |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:31 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. The NY Times article was interesting, thank you. |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:35 PM Response to Reply #114 |
116. Apples and cows |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:37 PM Response to Reply #116 |
118. No, food is sustenance. |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:39 PM Response to Reply #118 |
121. If you choose to use my spirituality as a dismissal of the rational |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:38 PM Response to Reply #116 |
119. Some stun guns are so imperfect cattle have been known to "wake up on the line." |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:43 PM Response to Reply #119 |
123. I fully agree that factory farms and their slaughter facilities |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:55 PM Response to Reply #123 |
130. As always all good points. |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:59 PM Response to Reply #130 |
131. I think you're right about corn fed cattle |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:39 PM Response to Reply #116 |
120. Funny. I'd shitting cow seeds! |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:33 PM Response to Reply #113 |
115. LOVELY! |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:42 AM Response to Original message |
49. "parallel to... slavery"-- Yeah, 'cause my great grandmother is moral equivalent of a pig, chicken |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:02 PM Original message |
"Thinking," as you've aptly shown, is a highly relative term. |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:05 PM Response to Reply #49 |
90. It's comparing institutions, not the subjects of that institution. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:47 AM Response to Original message |
55. I drank a lot of soda and gained because of it. No said anything to me. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #55 |
67. What about vegetarian athesists??? (Yikes!) |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:16 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. I have been an atheist since I was a kid so I have been both atheist and vegan at the same time. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #70 |
73. That's interesting! It may really have to do with who you hang around with. |
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csziggy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 11:51 AM Response to Original message |
58. While I will likely never go vegan, I have cut way back on meat consumption |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:02 PM Response to Original message |
62. When mild, thoughtful questions |
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Seldona (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:47 PM Response to Original message |
76. You compare meat eating to slavery, and claim it isn't 'baldly provacative?' |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #76 |
85. The word was parallel and it had to do with concepts you're not apparently willing to entertain like |
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Petals (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 01:17 AM Response to Reply #85 |
166. Meat eating is more like genocide than slavery..... |
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EOTE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 12:54 PM Response to Original message |
77. A hearty K&R from this omnivore. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:19 PM Response to Original message |
79. This thread has gone almost as expected. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:29 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. Fivegan, though I campaign for humane |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. Of course not. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:35 PM Response to Reply #84 |
117. I realize that the entire nation is not about to |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:49 PM Response to Reply #82 |
102. That's a silly argument. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #102 |
124. If Iyou get to California, let me have you tour the odious NEW vineyards |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:48 PM Response to Reply #124 |
126. Man, you really hate vineyards. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 01:48 AM Response to Reply #126 |
157. It's not just that I hate vineyards, it is that they are eating up |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:55 PM Response to Reply #124 |
129. If I get to California? Check my profile. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #129 |
139. No that is simply not true. |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:35 PM Response to Reply #139 |
142. Marin County hobby farms are for the amusement and tax benefit of the wealthy. |
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paulsby (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
80. you are making anti-scientific claims |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #80 |
87. If you'll note, I never told anyone to do anything. If the answer to a few |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:39 PM Response to Reply #80 |
122. Much of the reasoning of the vegetarian crowds is really not scientific. |
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superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:46 PM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Is it a really an either/or between vineyards and animal exploitation? n/t |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:51 PM Response to Reply #125 |
144. I am trying to puzzle my way through this. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
81. As a meat eater, when I support locally raised beef and chicken, |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #81 |
88. Real arguments. Good ones. Rational and real. Not tongue gnawing, etc. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:50 PM Response to Reply #88 |
127. I eat far less meat than my parents ate. |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:22 PM Response to Original message |
92. The thing I remember about being a 20 year old vegan |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:37 PM Response to Reply #92 |
94. Comparing, paralleling, relating, equating, etc. Different terms with some overlap. |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:44 PM Response to Reply #94 |
99. How are they parallel? In what way? |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:00 PM Response to Reply #99 |
109. Parallel is a word meaning there are correspondences that "line up." |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 12:10 AM Response to Reply #109 |
156. If you want to communicate your point |
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pipi_k (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 02:56 PM Response to Original message |
106. Trying my best...gave up beef three years ago |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #106 |
112. I've lived in Cajun country for all of the 20 years I've been meatless. |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 03:52 PM Response to Original message |
128. Harvesting an acre of wheat kills THOUSANDS of small mammals |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:05 PM Response to Reply #128 |
132. Another real argument. Not a bad one. For the debate floor. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:14 PM Response to Reply #128 |
134. But wait. What are we feeding the cattle and pigs??? Don't they eat the corn and the oats and |
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mainer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 05:14 PM Response to Reply #134 |
145. The study quoted compares grazing meat animals to vegan diets |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 05:21 PM Response to Reply #145 |
146. Makes sense. But note, it compares all vegetarian consumption to a percent of meat consumption. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:18 PM Response to Reply #128 |
137. An acre of harvested product provides more enduser calories when fed to people |
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EndersDame (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:16 PM Response to Original message |
136. Have you ever been around Cows or Chickens.... |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:31 PM Response to Reply #136 |
141. We bred them stupid and docile. So morally you might have a point. |
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dorkulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 03:10 AM Response to Reply #141 |
170. Big difference between growing muscle tissue and "lobotomized livestock". |
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AllieB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:24 PM Response to Original message |
138. I was a vegetarian for 10 years. It's easy being a vegetarian at 20. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:54 AM Response to Reply #138 |
165. 2 minutes of sun midday during summer months in northern climates gives you |
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AllieB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:36 AM Response to Reply #165 |
172. Vitamin D deficiency is common in cold climates. |
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proteus_lives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:29 PM Response to Original message |
140. To each their own. |
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skip fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-15-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #140 |
143. Hmm. Science would debate some of your later points concerning level of consciousness. |
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dorkulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 03:17 AM Response to Reply #143 |
171. I think there's solid evidence we are the smartest animals around. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:52 AM Response to Reply #140 |
163. At least make sure the animals you ate had good lives - treated and slaughtered |
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4lbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:42 AM Response to Original message |
161. I don't eat beef or pork as much as I used to, but I do eat poultry and fish regularly. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:50 AM Response to Original message |
162. Animals should be treated humanely and slaughtered humanely. Americans eat far |
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Petals (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:54 AM Response to Original message |
164. Are we talking my life or yours? ;) N/T |
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Mari333 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:47 AM Response to Original message |
173. I like your OP. |
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