here's what the right has to offer: Pro-English measures being revived across U.S.

[spanone]

In perfect, if Southern-inflected, Japanese, Eric Crafton urged his colleagues on the Nashville, Tenn., City Council to let voters decide whether English should be the city’s official language.

Crafton, who learned Japanese during his service in the Navy, offered this translation: “This situation must change.”

The council’s decision to put the measure on the city ballot set off a bitter and expensive campaign, with Crafton and supporters from the nation’s “official English” movement pitted against the mayor, the governor of Tennessee and the leaders of numerous religious and community groups.

Nashville voters rejected the measure in January, but it won the support of 43 percent of them. Had they prevailed, Nashville would have become the largest city in the country to require that its official government business be conducted solely in English.

“English is under attack,” Crafton said in campaigning for the measure. “The fact that making English our government’s official language is even controversial should give us all pause.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31176525/ns/us_news-life/

[vadawg]

1. i gotta say i dont care what language people speak one to one but

knowing enough english to be able to communicate effectively with law enforcement, rescue, hospitals, businesses should really be the requisite, there is just no way in the world that you can know enough languages to deal with everyone hence we need a unifying language that everyone can speak.

[MineralMan]

3. The second generation here already speaks English.

They translate for their parents and grandparents. The generation after that won't speak the original language beyond simple greetings and polite expressions.

I can see it here in my neighborhood with my Hmong neighbors. Grandma speaks no English. Dad and Mom speak it with some effort. The kids speak both very well. If things proceed normally, their children won't speak Hmong hardly at all.

In the meantime, we have to deal with things as they are, not as we wish they would be.

[imdjh]

11. Speaking of the Hmong

Are there signs of progress in family planning and economic viability there? It wasn't looking so good when I worked in Alameda, but that was a long time ago.

[MineralMan]

22. I can't speak about any but those in my neighborhood,

but they own homes and businesses here. There's a strong Hmong community, which helps everyone make a go of things and there are lots of cooperative enterprises. The young families I'm seeing have two or three children, and education is prized.

We do have some Hmong teen gang activity in the Twin Cities, but it seems limited to teenagers. I don't see much news about any other criminal activity. We also have white, black, and hispanic gangs here.

My neighbor down the street, who's about 45 or so years old, just bought, in a joint purchase with other family members, a new fishing boat, which I went down and admired the other day. Fishing is important to many Hmong, and that boat will be used by all the shareholders in its purchase.

Several families in this neighborhood jointly own a very nice snowblower, which gets used on all their driveways and walks, immediately after the snow falls. If I'm not quick about it, my walk gets blown off before I get to it, just because it's on the way to the next family's house. At the beginning of the spring season, I watched entire families out digging up the dandelions in several yards. They went into a bag and got cooked up, instead of going in the trash.

I like my neighbors. I've learned a little of their language, and can now be polite in it. It's all I need to make friends with the neighbors. Nice people.

[imdjh]

24. Please do not make fun of me for this: What would you do with a fishing boat in M/SP?

When you say Hmong and fishing boat in the same post, I get a mental picture of pointed hat guys hanging over the sides of a big row boat hauling nets. Is that what we are talking about, or are we talking about a bass boat and recreational fishing just like everybody else?

[MineralMan]

26. Just a normal sportfishing boat. Not a bass boat, though.

This one's a very nice 18' Lund. Useful for all sorts of fishing. Bass aren't a big deal for Hmong anglers. They're fishing for walleyes, panfish, catfish, and other more edible species. They also eat a number of non-game species that are stupidly ignored by most anglers. I had some carp that was baked whole at one of their family parties not long ago. Bony stuff, but, if you have one that weighs 15 lb., you can just pick the good, boneless meat off the fish with your chopsticks.

I guess my point is that they're doing just what a whole lot of other Minnesotans do...going fishing. It's recreational fishing, but it's also a food source that is similar to traditional Hmong foods.

You should see the backyard vegetable gardens on their lots!

[nichomachus]

15. You need to rethink that

Dealing with law enforcement, hospitals, and businesses requires an advanced level of language skills. These are situations where you really want to be precise and not to make some subtle mistake that will cause further problems.

I'm fairly fluent in Spanish. I can carry on conversations with friends, order in restaurants, read newspapers, shop, etc. However, if I'm in a hospital trying to explain my problem to the medical staff, I would prefer to do it in English. If I'm trying to negotiate a business deal with someone, I would prefer to do it in English. These are situations where I don't want to make a mistake.

I used to work in a courthouse. About half of the people coming in were Spanish speaking. Many could speak basic English. However, in legal cases, one wrong word can totally change the meaning of what you're putting on the paper and can result in a undesirable outcome. In fact, a lot of native English speakers have problems. It's 100 times harder for people for whom English isn't their native language.

So, while having basic English skills is a good thing, the situations you bring up demand more than basic English.

[imdjh]

20. There are protections in place for that circumstance, are there not?

I think that the objection being made in the English Only argument is about the cost of the fairly recent demands that in essence a person be able to choose to live without English. The idea that a person dealing with the courts who doesn't speak English as a first language has special needs which must be met to ensure the integrity of the process is pretty well established, and I haven't seen anyone challenging that. Demanding that a person speak English to pass the drivers license test and demanding that he speak English to defend himself in court are not the same thing.

[vadawg]

29. being able to understand simple commands in english would suffice at times

or being able to tell an EMT in english that granny was shaking and fell to the floor would help. Whatever language is used it needs to be universal to be of any good, and as an earlier poster said kids that grow up here tend to speak both languages so it might not be a problem in the future.

[marmar]

2. "English is under attack"

Good f**king grief don't these people have anything better to do?

[MineralMan]

4. Nope. They lost. They're losers.

They're still stuck on the old meme.

[BolivarianHero]

28. Oh noes..Teh inglish is dieing...

Your going 2 have too learn Spanish to make it hear in America. So their u go, we have to make teh inglish are offical langage.

[Towlie]

5. That's not "pro-English". Pro-English means respect for proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar.

Crafton and his supporters are just against foreign languages.

I tend to be pro-English myself, but I usually get called a "spelling Nazi" for my trouble. :cry:

[spanone]

7. that's why 'us nashvillians' rejected it

[Mrs. Overall]

9. Yes, all of the republicans in my family who are "pro-English" have the most atrocious grammar

in both speaking and writing. And that's partly because they scorn and make fun of education--"academics is highfalutin."

[imdjh]

6. I see nothing false about Inhofe's statement.

“A nation of immigrants needs one national language,” Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., said last month in introducing legislation that would make English the “national language” and declare that “there is no entitlement to receive federal documents and services in languages other than English.” - Inhofe



Which is not to say that everything he says is true, simply that I see nothing false in this one statement.

[spanone]

8. so u.s. citizens that don't speak english should be denied entitlements? really?

[imdjh]

14. Cart before horse there.

People should have a basic command of English to become US citizens. People born here are presumably educated in the US schools and would therefore speak English.

People who are not US citizens aren't eligible for entitlements, are they?

[spanone]

16. well, you may not be a citizen if that were the case.

[Mrs. Overall]

10. Wow, you get an award for being the first DUer to ever come to Inhofe's defense.

[imdjh]

12. I thought he was Hawaiian until ten minutes ago. nt

[Still Sensible]

32. Inhofe is one of the senators of my state

along with Tom Coburn. Together they make up the worst duo in the country bar none.

What Inhofe said is not entirely wrong EXCEPT that it is coming from a place of pure bigotry against Hispanics. Inhofe is as anti-immigrant as Lou Dobbs... and that's saying something. Every chance they get they try to blame every ill imaginable on people they label "illegals."

Personally, I support efforts to require some level of english proficiency while at the same time supporting the states providing whatever is necessary in translated materials to those that need them. It is certainly true, IMO, that any immigrant will be able to better function in our society with an ability to speak the language.

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Let's be damn honest. It's NOT "pro-English" it's ANTI - Hispanic (and other cultures).

It's desperate bigotry. The world is changing, the US is changing and the old white guys of the right are in a deep, dark, state of panic.

[vadawg]

17. so whats your solution, everybody has to learn spanish, its the same thing just a different language

there has to be a unifying language for government and services, do you have any idea how much of a nightmare it is trying to explain stuff to someone who has very little or no command of the language you converse in.

[Mrs. Overall]

18. There are countries that have more than one official language.

Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, just to name a few.

And, they have street signs and official documents in two or more languages (and nobody freaks out).

[Gwendolyn]

25. Not in Canada.

The English portion of Canada provides Government-related forms in both English and French. If you want to walk into a Government building in Alberta, you most likely won't find anyone to help you in the French language.

In Quebec, all Government-related forms are in French only, since that is the official language of the province. All road signs are in French. You may or may not get a Gov. official who is able to help you in English if you are newly emigrated. But you can't count on it.

[spanone]

19. so tell me, how have we survived over 200 years as a 'immigrant nation'?

[vadawg]

30. i think its pretty easy, as it seemed everyone learned english or as best they could

or they didnt deal with government or anybody else.

[spanone]

33. well, there you go, i'm convinced

:sarcasm:

[imdjh]

34. So are you saying that it doesn't matter what language the people of a country speak?

Are you saying that a common language isn't essential to a culture and country? Are you saying that, for example, the effort to keep some languages from dying has no value as long as they all understand what's on the government forms?

[imdjh]

23. So fuck Quebec?

[Orsino]

31. Even more than that, it's anti-WORK.

It's a way to rally the base while avoiding substantive issues.

[BolivarianHero]

21. That's funny...

Most people who treat the English language with respect when they use its written form tend to be leftists, social liberals, and the odd Buckleyite conservative. And to be quite honest, I don't how anyone can take pride in being unilingual; I feel down on the fact that I'm not more fluent in French and in Spanish.

[juno jones]

27. Fine, they can take the first lessons.

And I WILL be rapping knuckes with a steel ruler for chronic spelling errors.

It would be nice for Americans to actually learn english if we're gonna cram it down everyone else's throats.