Could somebody possibly help? I'm getting spammed...by....ME:

[Gabi Hayes]

I got a Norton upgrade, and ever since, whenever I open email on outlook express, it disappears as soon as I close OE. I haven't deleted any of those emails, and nothing appears in delete or anti spam folder when I close out....just gone.

also, today, I clicked on a few bizarrely titled emails, and the come from my own
email address. this all started the day after I got the Norton update, for which they had to take my computer over remotely.

they did that again tonight, and said there's no problem....no worms, no viruses showing up, but I'm getting email from myself! obviously something is very wrong, and I clearly can't send emails to anyone.

being ignorant of almost everything along these lines, I don't know where to turn...

the Norton person said it's Microsoft's problem and gave me a phone number, but they close at 6 PM! as if I'll ever get to talk to a human there. dunno what to do about online support there, but I've heard that doesn't work so well.

any suggestions, like trying another antivirus program, or doing a system restore?

the Norton 'helper' said that's what Microsoft would probably suggest, but Norton washes its hands of such things, and would give me no advice on how to do that. I don't have anything of importance on my computer since this happened, so that's not a problem, but I've heard that doing a system restore can result in problems itself.

my ISP said there's no way to check on emails I've sent through OE, and Norton said that they have nothing to do with that, and if my computer was trying to send spam, it would've shown up. I'm skeptical about that, because it's HAPPENING, and Norton isn't picking anything up.

I'd appreciate any suggestions, including websites to check, or phone numbers....whatever.

thanks

EDIT: I checked here for a tech forum, but couldn't find anything. is there another forum here for which this would be better suited?

[cliffordu]

1. It was a thingy like this in about 1996 that led me to using Linux.

I haven't had a Microsoft powered computer in this house since then.

Get off of Internet Exploder at all costs...Get rid of Outbreak Xpress at all costs..Opera is nice...

Linux and Opera are pretty foolproof, free and automatically upgrade.

Linux is easy to use and NO ONE will ever blame another company for their failures.....

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Here ya go ..............

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=242

I had a horrible problem a while back, and the most beautiful people on DU, from all over the world, chimed in to help me.

And THEY FIXED IT!

Bet they fix yours, too.

I hate Norton.

Good luck!

[Gabi Hayes]

4. thanks! will check that

I was on the phone for almost two hours with ISP/Norton

they claim it was a "coincidence" that this just happened to start the day they uninstalled/reinstalled the update remotely

any idea if I can email from yahoo address without spreading virus?

probably not.....

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Listen,

get rid of IE, and start using Firefox. You'll be SO glad you did. And Firefox will bring along all your bookmarks.

And, speaking just for me, I've had GREAT luck with gmail. A very wonderful thing, gmail................

[Gabi Hayes]

15. I've thought about all that many times, but if you knew how lazy I am.....

if I can get rid of this garbage, that's what I'll do, I guess, but I hope system restore keeps me from having to get a new computer, cause I can't afford what I have now.

probably go Mac, as well

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Take it to the Computer Forum here,

and I'll bet they'll solve it for you.

They're amazing. But then, I look at the responses you already got here, and, once again, I fall in love with the people of DU.

But, yeah, go Firefox. It's SO easy, and you can't possibly be lazier than I am.

I'm pullin' for ya................

[Gabi Hayes]

25. ha! you aren't even in the Z leagues compared to my laziness level...

I hope you're right, but I lost my ability to listen to Sirius online, and nobody here was able to help, despite monumental efforts

along with my lazee, I'm not so optimo, either

that said, really gotta go

here's a little gift, in the meantime.....you were around for him...ever hear/see?

be patient...Michael ODonohue presents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roC_JLOcnxE

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. That was SENSATIONAL!

And it reminded me of what a damn genius O'Donohue was. What a trip.

They were so YOUNG!

Thanks, and I hope your problem gets fixed..............

[MADem]

3. I use AVG, I've never had that problem....

I don't know what to tell you--maybe change your account password?

Is it a web-based mail, like hotmail/live mail?

Maybe someone stole your password?

[Gabi Hayes]

7. my ISP is Wide Open West, which also phone/TV provider

dunno how somebody could have gotten my password, as I don't even remember what it is.

nobody has access to it (always here), but maybe they got it during remote takeover? that would be traceable, though, yes?

and what about no records of emails being sent?

I thought there's ALWAYS a trail.

I'd like to know if I'm spamming the rest of the world, too.

[MADem]

21. Maybe they're just "spoofing" your address. Look at the

headers of the mail (file, properties, detail) and see if it's actually coming from your address or if it's a spoof.

[nebenaube]

5. Norton doesn't do remote upgrades....

Your system is now rooted... rebuild!

[Gabi Hayes]

13. I didn't put that correctly. here's what happened:

I got message for free upgrade download....ignored it for a long time, but finally did it, after going to their website---I thought. so you're saying that the message was a fake?

anyway, when I downloaded the upgrade, all systems went red, saying I had no virus protection. I shut off computer, then called Norton. they said the old program wasn't properly removed....that's why no virus protection. I didn't understand what they said about that, but I watched as they removed the old one and re-installed the new one.

It had to be Norton doing that stuff, cause I called them at their phone number, and when I called them tonight, they told me the exact date/time it happened.

did something happen immediately when the virus protection was down?

and is whatever I've got impervious to Norton's scans?

they also said they'd NEVER heard of my particular situation.

that made me feel very confident.

also, AFA as rebuild, does that mean doing a system restore will be useless?

thanks

[nebenaube]

28. well...

Since you are on OE and not webmail it's probably more than a compromised password. Also, while there are spammers who will spoof the return email address; your "spams" have a header that will indicate if your ip address actually sent the message. If the headers show that the spam is actually from your machine then here's what probably happened:

in the time that lapsed between your upgrade notice and the actual upgrade; your system was compromised by a 'drive-by' download that not only infected but also rooted your system. This hack has compromised the "core" of your system and corrupted Norton, i.e. the virus is in the kernel and virtually undetectable there. Upgrading Norton is pointless because the kernel code infects the new version by replacing api calls which effectively bypass anything the Norton upgrade would attempt to perform. You can try to eliminate the malicious code, but it's more like a symbiant than a virus at this point. I would back up any meaningful data and just reformat and reinstall.

System restore is probably compromised as well so might as well rebuild from scratch.

Make sure your firewall is up before you go online... then go to Micro$oft update to apply the service packs.

Once you have everything up to date and humming, do a fresh install of your anti-virus;

then full scans on your hard drive....

then full scans on your back up media...

then only restore the data you actually need.

[TahitiNut]

6. http://www.spamcop.net is your friend ... (and the "From" addy means nothing)

ANY spam hack can send you email with your own 'from' addy.

Use http://www.spamcop.net ... to analyze and/or report. You can, like me, even pay for an email account with them.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. Here are some suggestions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=242&topic_id=21772#21798

[Ohio Joe]

9. Go see The Helper

The people there will see to it you get fixed up, no better free tech support anywhere on the web.

This is the forum you will want to post in, register first.

http://www.thehelper.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

[peacetalksforall]

11. Norton is the worst. But, you seem to have several parallel things going on.

OE - also the worst.

[Gabi Hayes]

14. I've never had a problem with them, but I keep hearing bad things.

also, anybody heard of Avast? a radio show had people discussing it, and they said it's very good. guess I'll check them.....

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. I fix broken/hacked computers for friends.

Check out my post above. After you clean in safe mode and your computer seems better, I would redo the process, but disable system restore before entering safe mode. Re-enable after the second clean. Also, I use Avast. It is very robust.

ON EDIT -- if you want to fully remove Norton, use this tool: http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

[Gabi Hayes]

19. thanks for that, but I don't even know how to do that without some sort of menu/walkthrough

and I have to sleep now.

do mind if I PM you about this tomorrow?

thanks again

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. PM away. I will respond later in the evening again.

I am west coast and get home around 8 PM.

[Wickerman]

12. I don't know the right answer, but I had similar happen

I got on a spam list long ago and get a really *nice* spectrum of email. I hate the ones that come from myself.

I created a rule that sent anything from me to me to a folder I call hold. Another rule sends it to trash after 1 day. If for some reason I would ever send myself an email I'd have a day to retrieve it before it would go into trash.

That's using Thunderbird. Its not perfect and is admittedly only a bandaid, but it sure has cut down on aggravation.

[Gabi Hayes]

17. To Tahiti, Sui, Ohio JOe, and anyone else I haven't thanked, I appreciate

the suggestions

will check on those tomorrow

I'm really beat....gotta go

thanks again

if anyone else has any ideas, please feel free

one last: another thing that happened is my "history" thing only shows "today," instead of going back farther, like it used to. I can't figure out how to reset that.
where do I go to fix that?

[Kali]

20. I second the advice to go ask in the DU computer group

also get rid of Norton. You might have reset something in OE that needs to be changed - I think in tools - options - send is a box you can tick that says "save a copy of sent messages in sent folder"

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Some missing info here...

You're using XP or Vista?

You've got a Yahoo webmail account, but you're using Outlook Express-- are you getting POP3 Yahoo mail into Outlook or is that another email addy?

Anyway, first thing I would do is use System Restore-- it has saved my life several times, and I don't know of anyone who has had problems with it. If you're using XP, click the Start button and then "Help and Support." You should see a link to Restore over on the right side of the box. With Vista, I don't know for sure but it's probably something similar.

Follow the instructions and pick the Restore date closest to when you upgraded Norton. Hopefully, you'll see dates there-- some computers have the defaults changed so they don't automatically index for restore.

If that solves the problem, and you haven't done anything else around that time, it's probably Norton that caused the problem. Don't take them seriously when they say it's not their fault-- these things are so complex EVERYONE refuses to accept the blame whenever they think they can get away with it.

If that's the case, dump Norton. It's great for companies with geeks on call to solve problems, but for home use it sucks-- uses far too many resources and causes too many problems to be worth the cost. I've used free Zone Alarm and AVG on broadband and dialup and had very few problems for over 10 years.

Everyone (including me) complains about Outlook and Explorer, but they're rally not that bad, and Outlook Express has some neat features not found in even the better mail programs. Just go through the menus and make sure Active X is turned off on both of them. Norton may have turned them on in order to upgrade you, but they are usually unnecessary for normal use, just a great way for hackers to get into your system. Not one of Microsoft's better ideas.

If you feel adventurous, you can download Opera which includes mail and a veryy good browser in one app, or Thunderbird for mail. Both are free and somewhat more secure than what you're using.

[TheMadMonk]

23. Step one: Uninstall Norton, but save the install media. You will want it later.

(I'm assuming you have the Windows firewall turned on. If not, turn it on.)

Step 2: Install AVG or another reputable free antivirus product.
Step 3: Install a decent third party browser and email client. (I use Firefox and Thunderbird.)
Step 4: Install several reputable freeware spyware detection/removal apps. The more the merrier.
Step 5: Take your Norton install media and cook it in a microwave.
Step 6: Enjoy the lightshow.

[Gabi Hayes]

26. really gotta go now....falling asleep at the wheel here, but in response to

all the recent posts, thanks very much again, and I'll reply tomorrow, if I haven't done something worse to this thing than has already happened.

[notesdev]

27. I'm convinced these companies play both sides of the game

On the one end, selling security software to you.

On the other, selling your data to the very kinds of people whose behavior might cause you to go buy security software.

Honest business in the USA is dead and buried, so one pretty much has to assume the worst until proven otherwise.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. I've also gotten spam mails from "Me"

A computer wiz showed me how easy it would be to send someone a spam mail from "themselves". Apparently, once they get your address (and they can intercept it, for example, if you get mass e-mailings), they go through a third-party computer to send spam mail that lists the recipient as the sender. Not much you can do about that, it seems, except get a new e-mail address (which I did).

[guruoo]

31. Are you SURE that was a legit upgrade? ....

or a rogue virus installing program...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=antivirus+system+pro&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=antivirus+system+pro&aqi=&fp=1&cad=b



I picked up a virus last week (net-worm.win32.koobface.qr , installed by exploit.win32.piedf.axy).
This in turn installed a rootkit, (using trojan-downloader.win32.fraudload.wbus)that then proceeded to
shut down both my antivirus, and firewall systems, as well as tie up processor resource
so badly that i could not use my machine at all..
I finally got things working again by disconecting from the network, rebooting in safe mode, and running a system restore (using the oldest dated restore file available on my machine).
After that, i rebooted normal, then immediately went to the firewall control panel and placed a block on all
but the most essential apps, and ports. I then reconnected the network, launched firefox, updated my anti-virus, updated firefox, updated the OS, then switched off both java and javascript.
After another normal reboot, , I resumed normal web use, and just sat back and waited for the creepy code critter to make it's next move.
And about 18:20 the next day it did just that. Fortunately, the blocks I placed in the system did their job of keeping the trojan from causing further damage, and/or contacting it's mother ship long enough for the antivirus to locate, and quarantine the remaining bugs in the machine, which, ironically, were located in the system restore file created the day the virus went active, two days newer than the file i used for system restore!

Asus EeePC
Firefox 3.0.11
Zonealarm Pro (w/kaspersky antivirus engine)