LA racially divided on gay marriage new poll finds

[Liberal_in_LA]

Times Poll: 68% of white voters support the right of same-sex couples to marry; only 37% of African Americans agree. Latino voters are split.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/big-racial-divide-remains-in-la-on-proposition-8-times-poll-finds.html

In the state’s continuing political battles over gay marriage, both sides are targeting Latino voters, and a new Los Angeles Times poll illustrates why. Overall, the poll showed, a substantial majority of voters in Los Angeles support the right of same-sex couples to legally marry, with 56% in favor and 37% opposed.


That finding closely tracked the results of November’s election in which Proposition 8, which limited marriage to unions of a man and a woman, won statewide but lost in Los Angeles. But the poll also showed that within the city, views on the issue differed widely among racial and ethnic groups.

White voters were most emphatic in their support for same-sex marriage, with 68% supporting it and 27% opposing. African American voters were strongly against it, with 54% opposing same-sex marriage and 37% supporting it.

Opposition to gay marriage by African Americans was widely seen as a major factor contributing to the passage of Proposition 8. Latinos in the current poll were split, with 45% supporting same-sex marriage and 46% opposing.

Within the Latino population, there were additional divisions: women, the young and people with college educations offered more backing for gay marriage than men, older voters and those with fewer years of schooling. Since the passage of Proposition 8, political analysts have suggested that statewide support for same-sex marriage is only a matter of time, and the poll offered support for that idea.

[donco6]

1. Interesting.

And I think that's all I'm going to say.

[KamaAina]

2. Is this an archive post from last November or December?

'Cause I seem to recall a whole lot of posts on this (spurious) topic from back then. :eyes:

edit: spelling

[EFerrari]

5. It was stupid then and it's still stupid now. n/t

[goclark]

6. If this a reliable poll or if it isn't, what is being done to

change the minds of those that are against it?

Is there an outreach agenda within the African Community to become more aware of the critical need to change their minds?

What about the other minority communities?

What steps are in place to turn the negatives into positives on this critical issue?

[konnichi wa]

8. It says the results track those from last November.

Probably is accurate.

[EFerrari]

9. If they were tracking those numbers

they'd be tracking older voters and Catholic voters, not black voters.

[konnichi wa]

10. Well, the poll seems to be recent. I certainly believe it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/big-racial-divide-remains-in-la-on-proposition-8-times-poll-finds.html

[EFerrari]

17. If the poll is recent, it can't be tracking numbers from NOVEMEBER.

And I expect it's just as "expert" as the bs was then.

[konnichi wa]

19. Uh, 'tracking' means 'agreeing with'

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

72. I put that badly. The numbers from November were wrong.

They were spun.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Huh?

[EFerrari]

18. Niederhauer took Mormon money and shifted the blame to black voters.

It wasn't black voters. Check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3593168

[Captain Hilts]

21. Black voters are socially conservative because of higher church attendance.

I saw that in polling all the time. That's how social conservatives such as Anne Northup won in Louisville.

I would like to see the crosstabs to see what income factors are there.

[EFerrari]

23. That's not what happened in California.

I sat here for two nights with my calculator and the numbers.

It was older voters and Catholic voters, just as the Chron article said. It's sort of fascinating because if you map the precincts that went pro-8 here in the city, at first it looks like minority precincts until you get into the weeds and then you realize, it's a bunch of high density retirement housing. Wild.

[Captain Hilts]

25. But black voters are still socially conservative. Whether or not they comprise a large enough

percentage to turn this vote around is a different issue.

[EFerrari]

70. Older black voters. The kids are not or, they didn't seem to be

when I followed up last November.

[JI7]

22. that refers to funding by organizations, not voter demographics

most Catholics support abortion rights also, but that sure doesn't mean the Catholic Church does.

[Captain Hilts]

31. This comment makes no sense. nt

[EFerrari]

73. You're right. It doesn't. lol

What I meant was, the numbers from November weren't good. When I sat here and went over the numbers that were spewed all over the media, they made no sense. Then, a day or so after the election, the information started coming out that it was largely older voters and Catholic voters that made the difference for H8, not black voters.

Hell, do you remember all the problems in Los Angeles County during the primaries? They STILL don't have a clean vote total there, afaik. In fact, there are two DUers who have been working a recount there.

[FrenchieCat]

3. This is polling Los Angeles?

Why just Los Angeles?

[EFerrari]

4. And taking the raw numbers of black voters without considering age

doesn't work. Alameda Co, with the highest % of black voters in CA, rejected H8.

[Captain Hilts]

12. They did note age and that opposition goes up with age. nt

[JI7]

13. black voters only make up about 5-6 percent of voters in Alameda

whites make up over 50 percent.

california as a whole has a pretty low percentage of black people than many other states.

[EFerrari]

20. Alameda Co. has a higher % of black voters than L.A. County. n/t

[JI7]

27. do you have numbers for that, i think LA is about 10 percent and Alameda is about 6

percent.

[EFerrari]

69. Not any more, sorry. I got them initially from the SOS's office

and from the census. ETA: And in honesty, I haven't even looked at those numbers since November.

[FrenchieCat]

78. More like almost 15%!

Latino 19%


White 40.8%


Black 14.5%


Asian 20.2%

http://www.muninetguide.com/states/california/Alameda.php



In LA County, Blacks are 9.5% of the population, Hispanics, 47%!
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06037.html

[FrenchieCat]

28. Thank you, from Alameda County!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

74. You guys did great! My old home district!

:hi:

[glowing]

7. Very odd to see minorities reject civil rights n/t

[Fire1]

15. Equal Rights. n/t

[glowing]

35. isn't it also civil rights?

[donco6]

40. Yes.

But you won't get any more than that silly phrase from her.

[Starry Messenger]

77. Obama calls them Civil Rights.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/CIVIL_RIGHTS/

Guess you'd better write to the White House and tell them to fix it to your liking.

[Raineyb]

83. So you think that black people automatically defer to Obama? n/t

[queenofcups]

87. I don't know about Hispanics, but it is very common for people

in the Black community to bristle at the inclusion of gay rights as a civil right. I listen almost exclusively to a Black talk radio station and there is rampant homophobia. And so it should come as no surprise that the highest rates of new HIV cases (if I remember correctly) are with Black women. Probably the whole down-low effect.:(

[ismnotwasm]

14. Blacks in LA county make 9.5%

6.7% in the entire state of California. So I would love an explaination on just how "Opposition to gay marriage by African Americans" could be seen as a "major factor" in the passage of prop 8.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06037.html

[konnichi wa]

16. It passed 52 to 48 percent...are you seriously claiming that a 5 or 6 percentage

voting bloc could not be a 'major factor' ?????

[ismnotwasm]

24. No

I want an explanation. Do you think all blacks voted? And if they did, did all blacks voted for prop 8? And even if they did, which is highly unlikely, why are we not pointing the racial finger at a whole lot of white folks who voted for it, since they have the statistically powerful votes?

If I use statistics without white privilege blinding me, looks to me like a whole lot of white folks have a homophobia/hatred disorder.

[konnichi wa]

29. I don't see a 'racial finger pointing', I see a statistic. You can attach whatever sort of

sociological agenda you wish to it...facts are facts. If you want to deny that for the most part African Americans are more homophobic than the general population, go right ahead...you will just be wrong which is nothing to be ashamed of.

[ismnotwasm]

37. African Americans are more homphobic?

Really. Why do you say that?

[konnichi wa]

39. Uh, because it's an incontrovertible fact?

Yeah, that's the reason. Good god I hope you're not going to deny it...
:eyes:

on edit: I assume you're in agreement that older people are generally more homophobic and that we can make that observation without being labeled 'ageist', right?

[ismnotwasm]

41. A fact based on what?

That's what I'm asking I guess. Statitics? Antedotal stories? Some shit you just made up? What?

[konnichi wa]

43. If you don't believe it, you're in denial. And I can't even imagine why.

It's not even a pejorative accusation, it's just a fact of life.

[ismnotwasm]

57. Dude

Based on WHAT??

And no, It's not my personal experience that blacks are "more homophobic". Perhaps we have different life experiences. Hmm?

[Raineyb]

66. Then you'd better have something to back it up with. Otherwise it's racist bullshit you've pulled

out of your ass.

I'm waiting.

[Dramarama]

50. Cornel West has said this 2

[Number23]

59. You should check your facts first before misquoting my man, Dr. West

Given the intensity of feelings toward homosexuality in the black community, many have suggested that homophobia is more virulent and rampant among black people than in the wider heterosexist American society. Though the rhetoric surrounding Black homophobia may suggest that this is the case, the fact do not bear this out. On the one hand, there have been no persons more ardently homophobic than White televangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell or political commentator Pat Buchanon.

...On the other hand, while homopbobia is certainly pervasive in the black community, there have been significant black voices that have forthrightly supported gay and lesbian rights. Civil rights leaders such as Jesse Jackson, Joseph Lowery, Coretta Scott King and Benjamin Chavis have all publicly decried discriminatory policies and behaviors toward gay and lesiban persons. ... In addition, the Congressional Black Caucus as well as its individual members, has consistently rejected legislation that would discriminate against gay and lesbian persons, and it has openly supported gay and lesbian rights.

African American religious thought
By Cornel West, Eddie S. Glaude 2003

[Dramarama]

61. But.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bNJD8g1e-QQC&pg=PA403&lpg=PA403&dq=Cornel+west+gay+black+community&source=bl&ots=9vTj-tAb8o&sig=Qcixke8wvfqxbh1EvNj1xrBLmsA&hl=en&ei=PE48SurEFJC4swOtjNTzCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

"My view is that I have to recognize deep homophobia inside of me, because I grew up in the Black community, in the Black church, on the Black block, and there's a lot of homophobia in
all three sites"

[Number23]

63. The link you sent is just a general one

I can't find the particular quote you referenced.

[Dramarama]

65. The Cornel West Reader

page 403
2nd paragraph

[Number23]

68. I'm sorry, I can't find that quote anywhere. And not only that,

but every quote I CAN find from Dr. West is complementary and completely in line with the sentiments of the quote that I gave you.

[Raineyb]

81. :cough: Bigotry :cough:

[Number23]

52. And there you have it folks!

f you want to deny that for the most part African Americans are more homophobic than the general population, go right ahead

We ALL knew it was coming and there it is.

[konnichi wa]

54. I tried to say it outright as plainly as possible. Are you trying to deny it?

I find that extremely incredible.

[Raineyb]

82. Yes your bigotry is coming out loud and clear.

It was outright and clear. We got it.

[kwassa]

48. I think attributing the passage of Prop 8 to black people is racist.

Can I be any more clear?

to attribute the passage of Prop 8 to a small percentage of the total vote is to deliberately select out that group among all the others that voted for that same proposition.

There is no excuse for that, other than prejudice.

[konnichi wa]

53. Well, there are people who can extract extreme racism from a peanut butter sandwich.

Doesn't make such an opinion valid.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Extreme racism?

I don't know what it is exactly about how you're choosing to express ideas, but I have to ask, what do you mean by extreme racism? Lynchings? Church bombings? Racial murders? And there are people comparing them to peanut butter somewhere?

I missed that shit.

[Raineyb]

79. What he means is that any mention of racial overtones is extreme racism

No one, as you noted, used the word extreme racism, mentioned lynchings, bombings or racially motivated murders. However, apparently, the poster is under the opinion that he can make blanket, ignorant, comments about black people and not expect anyone to call him out on it. When you do you're accused of bringing extreme racism into it. I guess calling him out on his racist comments is akin to calling racism over a peanut butter sandwich although I've never seen anyone do anything like that.

[Captain Hilts]

30. The article said there is a racial divide. It's not saying failure of Prop 8 is the fault of black

voters. It's saying that black voters, by a higher percentage than white voters, oppose gay marriage.

That's all.

[ismnotwasm]

38. Well, thank you for the explanation

I was just thinking about the horrid bullshit that tend to go along with these kind of statistics.

[Mari333]

26. If Obama came out fully in favor of gay marriage,

this poll would change. He sets a bad precedent.

[konnichi wa]

32. He STILL hasn't repudiated his own DOJ's nasty brief.

grr

[Number23]

33. So all black people will be swayed by what Obama says?

[Mari333]

42. I personally think it would be helpful with many people

of any colour. a lot of people listen to him .

[Number23]

49. But it's interesting that you made that suggestion in a thread where "black people don't support

gay marriage" is the critical theme. AGAIN.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

80. Yes

Obama is the "head" black and we will follow what he says, no matter what.

<SARCASM>

[Number23]

34. Threads like this are always like sunshine

[EFerrari]

75. No fucking kidding. We went over this with a flea comb in November.

I guess all the posters that are STILL claiming black voters passed H8 missed those fifty threads and still fall for bullshit headlines.

ARgh.

I don't think I have another one of these threads in me. :puke:

[Dramarama]

36. people with college educations offered more backing for gay marriage

:shrug: Take that Freepers

[konnichi wa]

45. Absolutely...but be careful, that observation will offend a segment of readers.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

84. I'm sure it's helpful to support gay marriage by labeling black people as homophobic

can't see how that would backfire. :eyes:

[Howardx]

86. its a sure fire winner

:sarcasm:

[NMMNG]

44. Of those against same-sex marriage, how many would say

that their "deeply held religious beliefs" (a.k.a. "tradition", "protecting traditional marriage" or other such thing) were the basis for their position?

It's not about race/ethnicity at all. It's about bigotry--almost entirely religious bigotry--pure and simple.

[konnichi wa]

46. There are many overlaps in ethnicity, religiousity and culture.

A Venn diagram would be instructive...but it would piss off a lot of people who think they have exclusivity in the high ground.

[NMMNG]

47. Some groups seem to be more religious than others

and/or to take their religion more seriously (it's a bigger part of their community). But religion is still the primary root of this problem, not race/ethnicity.

[konnichi wa]

51. As you say.

:D

[-..__...]

55. I disagree.

Religious beliefs might be a primary factor, but the macho male image (and the domination of females), factor accounts for quite a bit of the opposition also.

[marmar]

58. This thread has become tragically predictable.....

...... Rash generalizations, accusations and nastiness.

[Number23]

60. Like I said, these threads are like sunshine. Causes the roaches to scatter from their hiding spots

[Raineyb]

67. Feels just like November 5th all over again.

Gee can we thank the OP for nothing yet?

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Blacks make up only 6.7 percent of the population in California

There is a lot of blame to go around for the passage of prop 8.

Hopefully some people here won't blame it all on black people.

[AntiFascist]

71. That's interesting, but...

Latino voters are the key demographic to target in California. There should be some sort of outreach to the Latino community explaining that it is wrong to allow a bare majority of voters the ability to deny a protected minority any of their basic rights. Many could be sensitive to issues involving basic rights of illegal aliens or those carrying green cards.

[ContinentalOp]

85. I said it back then and I'll say it again

It's not that black or latino voters singlehandedly passed 8. But if you look at the breakdown of white voters for and against 8, the results very closely tracked party affiliation. It's with the black and latino voters where you're seeing a significant chunk of Democrats who voted for 8, and I think that's an issue of concern and shows an area where arguably more progress can be made. You're not going to change the mind of right wing Mormons but we should at the very least be able to get everyone who voted for Obama on the right side of this issue, right? :shrug: Is that racist?

[anonymous171]

88. Not this shit again. nt