Seattle's Fremont neighborhood summer Solstice parade - naked (but painted) bikers video.

[lindisfarne]

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/407437_monica20.html

Nice shot of the Lenin statue which a local artist saved from being melted down in Croatia back in early 1990s - then said artist died and statue ended up in Fremont (long story)

[RandomThoughts]

1. It should be noted.

Lenin tried to move central government of communism back to the private sector.

He made the argument of commanding heights, where only industry that had effect on all society, like 'too big to fail', or like how Britain had nationalized coal industry, should be central controlled.

Their is a good documentary from a few years ago called Commanding Heights.

Hard liners got back in power in the USSR a few weeks later when Lenin died.

So Lenin with all his faults also thought on the middle ground.

[lindisfarne]

2. Lenin could be very ruthless however. And, I think if it were investigated further,

you'd see that Lenin only meant the move to be temporary.

Even Marx refused to support the revolution in Russia, saying Russian wasn't far enough along the road to industrializaton for a revolution to be successful.

After the Russian Civil War, economically things were so bad that Lenin did allow some privatization - but it was scarcely meant to be a permanent move. Lenin really did believe in Communism (except everyone was not equal - there was the vanguard of the proletariat).

[RandomThoughts]

3. I do not support Lenin's methods.

I only know that even in communism, most knew their extremism would not last. No extreme system ever does. There is a self devouring part of ideology, when a person defends ideology, often they have to go against it to do it, and they enter hypocricy. Because they have to use parts outside their ideology, which supports the flaws of their own beliefs. But they can't admit it. He was willing to admit it and try to move within the flow of the situation and change some ideology, even if it was a small amount from a person with many flaws.

Also many of the leaders of communism can be explained with animal farm. It is very hard to say a person that benefits you not at all, a peasant or foreigner is your equal, it requires that you do not think at all on self gain. And that is a hard thing for people to do.

[lindisfarne]

4. Read a history of the New Economic Policy. Lenin had not given up the ideology one iota -

he was simply taking a temporary step backward. Any academic history of the NEP will tell you this.
An online lecture I found says this "NEP, like Brest-Litovsk, was an admission of defeat; however, neither was intended as a surrender, but rather as a tactical maneuver to be pursued only until the inevitable change of conditions which would make victory possible". (But read some histories written by experts and you'll see essentially the same analysis.)

I've always said Marx may have been a great philosopher, but he simply did not understand human psychology. Pure communism (which has never been implemented) would never work because humans are fundamentally, self-interested. That's not to say that humans are only self-interested - countries like Denmark, Norway, & Sweden show that you can implement many of the worker (and societal protections) and even have a large degree of governmental regulation of industry, while still maintaining the individual's incentive to work hard to reap personal benefit.

Jumping to the end of that lecture:
No doubt many of the peasants expected NEP to be permanent, and although the Nepmen had fewer such illusions, they too hoped the policy would last for some time. Many Communist Party members feared that NEP might be prolonged and fought to end it before it got out of hand. Perhaps indeed it might have lasted somewhat longer than it did, if it had not been for certain developments which restricted political freedom, in and out of the Party, at the very time when the regime was experimenting rather boldly with economic freedom.

[RandomThoughts]

6. Being willing to even temporarily move a direction

may be giving up the ideology in action, but not in what someone thinks.

Your last paragraph seems to be the reason we need a middle system, where capitalism is supported entirely by greed and self interest, communism is supported completely by lack of self interest.

Since all people currently have both bad and good, a middle system would make sense as working better.

Selfishness defeats communism, and selfishness defeats capitalism. So the battle may not be against an economic system, but finding one that works for the most people, so they can have the time to fight the real battles.

[lindisfarne]

8. I'm completely in agreement that neither extreme (capitalism or communism) can work. n/t

[bertman]

5. Meanwhile, back to the naked cyclists parade. Great video. Cool parade.

WARNING: riding a bicycle while naked can be extremely dangerous for male genitalia, especially when riding with naked, nubile women bicyclists.

[RandomThoughts]

7. LOL, sorry about side tracking on the statue thing. n/t

But I don't get into the naked bike ride, but to each their own without judgment, ride on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCPHteuNXQI