Helen Thomas: "Obama Running Scared"

[kpete]

Published on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 by Times Union (New York)
Obama Running Scared

by Helen Thomas

............................

All around the world, governments have long made medical care available for their citizens. Why not us?

Obama clearly has no stomach for the political battle that any single-payer plan would ignite. So he's endorsed a step that would allow the government to provide health insurance coverage -- not health care -- to eligible people. Such government-sponsored health insurance is being considered in Congress as it writes health care reform legislation.

While the public plan option gets full consideration in Congress, the single-payer model has been unwelcome at the White House or on Capitol Hill.
...............................

Nearly all Republicans and some moderate Democrats oppose any public plan option. These are the same lawmakers who receive many government-provided perks including health insurance.

..............................

Obama should tear a page out of LBJ's vote-getting manual and shame the heartless opponents.

The health of all Americans is our business.

more:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/23

[Mari333]

1. knr for helen

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. ditto

[Dawgs]

3. I don't agree that Obama is running scared, but if it pisses him off then I'm all for it.

I think he's doing a great job, but he needs to get mad every once in awhile.

[nevergiveup]

9. I think he is on the edge

He has given it time, played this out and is about to bring down the hammer. The future of the nation is dependent on real health care reform and so is his presidency. Do not underestimate this man.

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. On the edge of handing over more money and power to the health insurance corps, that is.

[Dawgs]

43. I hope you're right.

Democrats would be fools to let this healthcare bill go without a public option.

[The Hope Mobile]

65. yup and they should be doing similar polls to find out how we really feel

on the other issues. It feels like they think we're still center right and I really believe we're much much further left. I think he's in trouble if he keeps ignoring the desires of the majority that elected him.

[imdjh]

48. Some people call that waiting to see which way the wind is blowing

Fortunately, the wind appears to be with us.

[Andy823]

100. I agree.

He has a plan, and he also has to get all the democrats on board since many of them have ties to the health care groups, and are against single payer. When some of his own party are in the pockets of the big money coming from health care groups that don't want "any" change, it isn't easy for him to get things done when it comes to UHC of some kind. I, like you, think he has a plan and we will see that soon. We may not get a single payer system, at least not yet, but we will get something with a public option, and if we get that, and it works as well as it does in other countries, it will not be long before those who are buying all the right wing crap about UHC as being so bad, will see that the right wing was lying like they always do. People will leave their expensive insurance plans and opt for a UHC system. It may take some time, but it will get done if we can get all the democrats on board.

[TheWatcher]

111. Yes, Yes We know.

:eyes:

[lark]

133. Tell us one instance where Obama has put principal over expediency?

Obama is ruled by the corporate elite, just like almost all the other pols. He has not shown the spine or courage of a Kucinich. When will folks wake up and smell the coffee, Obama is totally MOR except when it comes to Wall St. and then he's in their hip pocket. Maybe he didn't want to be that way, but soon as he got in office, it happened.

[Beartracks]

202. "real health care reform"

Yes, we most definitely need reform. Reform means change, new direction, building from the ground up, re-inventing something to make it better. Taking a broken model and making it more widely available isn't reform.

[chervilant]

167. We ALL need to get mad!

Where is the information about the National Strike on July 6?!? We now have the Internet to facilitate worldwide dissemination of information, so why aren't more DUers talking about this?!?

Less than 500 humans on this planet control better than 45% of the goods, services, and natural resources that comprise our world's "economic system." There are better than 6.7 billion people on this planet! That means that 0.000007% of our population owns almost half of everything! Does this strike anyone else as an enormous Ponzi scheme dressed in a thin veneer of legitimacy called "free market capitalism"?!?

We won't get the health care system we deserve until we address the ginormous inequities promulgated by our own economic behavior. Frankly, I think too many of us are too skeered. Gotta have that pitiful paycheck!

[butterfly77]

168. Does anyone remember what Obama said during the campaign...

"WE ARE THE ONES WE ARE WAITING FOR!!!":dem: :dem: :dem:

[chervilant]

169. Yeah, well,

I'm not feeling the love...

[Soylent Brice]

4. i heart helen

[emilyg]

91. +1

[panader0]

5. The proposed "health insurance coverage" will provide zero relief

for those who cannot afford it. The millions of us without insurance are poor, and merely lowering the cost is not a solution.

[snappyturtle]

11. I think you're right. What I see coming down the road is coverage

that will be mandated and will be nothing more than catastropic coverage....high deductibles with a 70/30 pay out. I quit BCBS five years ago because of it and couldn't find anything any 'better'. It did nothing to aid preventive (illness) healthcare.

[dgibby]

20. Mandated AND taxed. n/t

[snappyturtle]

28. OH yes! lest I forget....taxed! nt

[karynnj]

38. What about the subsidies that will lower the cost

- I think on a sliding scale - for those who can not afford it? Even now, there is a level where people qualify for Medicaid. It would seem that you are arguing for the need to redo the threshold for medicaid and the assumed amounts that people should be expected to pay given a specific income level. (Note - I am NOT disagreeing that you and others can't afford to pay the amount it currently costs - it is clearly the case. what I am saying is that the level of subsidy is the problem no matter what insurance (even single payer) were in the plan.

This is not a question of private, goverment option or single payer insurance, it is an issue of what the government subsidy of the healthcare insurance should be.

[imdjh]

54. The problem with Medicaid is that it is charged against your assets

Medicaid will cover you after your are ruined.


Transfer of Assets

Medicaid law prohibits the transfer of assets for less than market value by an institutionalized Medicaid applicant/recipient or anyone acting on their behalf. Certain transfers are allowable, such as the transfer of a home to a spouse or disabled child.

For 5 years from the date of application or institutionalization (whichever occurs later), if you do transfer assets, a sanction, or penalty, is applied. During the sanction period, Medicaid will not pay for your SNF care. The sanction begins the month that you would have been eligible for Medicaid. The length of the sanction is determined by dividing the value of the transferred assets by the average monthly private cost for nursing home care.

To avoid a penalty, talk with your state Medicaid office or an attorney about what you can and can't do with your assets.


Estate Recovery

When a Medicaid recipient in a nursing home or receiving Community Alternatives Program (CAP) services dies, Medicaid files a claim against the estate to recover expenses paid by Medicaid.

Estate recovery is waived if there is a spouse or dependents who continue to live on the property, the total estate assets are less than $5,000, Medicaid charges are less than $3,000, or in cases of hardship.

Note: This information is effective as of 07/01/2007. Eligibility rules and income/asset amounts are subject to change.

For further information regarding Medicaid, please contact your local county Department of Social Services, or call the Medicaid Eligibility Unit through the toll-free CARE-LINE at 1-800-662-7030.

[MrMickeysMom]

55. Let's compare apples to apples...

State run Medicaid is not equivalent to a single payer Medicare for all health care administration, so there is no arguing a sliding scale for Medicaid, as it doesn't have a dog in this fight.

Instead of multiple insurance plans, we are asking (or at least I am, and about 85% of other Americans) the one plan- Medicare, be a public option for Americans desirous of leaving their private insurance plan. Employers have MUCH RELIEF of the 30 plus percent cost of DOING employing Americans.

The level of this single payer service is comprehensive. Recipients are not only able to have doctor visits and acute care under it, but by paying into this (as it would be a tax, regardless) plan, we are able to afford it, as it's spread across the entire populous. We avoid the MOST EXPENSIVE care that has churned up in the present situation by the over-utilization of patients coming through the emergency room. These people are the under insured or non insured. They over-use emergency room care and pay far more out of pocket expenses not eligible under private insurance. When the present multi-private payers are replaced with govt funded, privately operated (that's how Medicare is in its present form) we see a different base of operating costs. These are covered services payed in, and include negotiated pharmaceutical rates. Result is, we get lower costs of providing services over a larger base of Americans who no longer abuse the most expensive part of the system. This has gone on for SO LONG.

Single payer, when applied will reduce costs, JUST FOR THAT REASON. We then can get even a better handle on the out of control consumption of GDP health care is costing us UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

[jeff47]

81. How 'bout we make sure those apples exist?

"there is no arguing a sliding scale for Medicaid, as it doesn't have a dog in this fight."

Except that the "public option" currently being discussed would have a sliding scale. In the most popular proposal (popular with Congress, that is), the scale slides up to 250% of the federal poverty level.

"we are asking (or at least I am, and about 85% of other Americans) the one plan"

As they say on Wikipedia, . The only recent polling I've seen is not for single payer, but for the above-mentioned "public option", where a public insurance plan competes with private plans.

That being said, Medicare for all would be a superior system. The "public option" goes a long way to getting that to happen.

[MrMickeysMom]

101. Who's proposal are you referring to?

"In the most popular proposal" (with Congress)

I've got a different bushel of apples, apparently than you. Are you a staffer, Jeff?

[jeff47]

118. Not a staffer, just reading what's actually written (nt)

[MrMickeysMom]

191. From which Bill? n/t

[truedelphi]

124. And since every other civilized nation in the world is doing this

There is no reason why we cannot.

Except that the rich would rather have us pay for endless wars, support for Army and Naval bases across the world, etc.

However a whole lot of good a Naval carrier does you when you are sick, unless you are one of the enlisted people aboard that carrier!

[defendandprotect]

93. Point of "universal" health care is that everyone is covered . . .

not a question of "who can afford it!" . . .

We're not looking for more insurance coverage and making insurance companies wealthier --

nor the health care "for profit" industry wealthier --

MEDICARE FOR ALL -- SINGLE PAYER is the cheapest and most practical way to go --

plus turning the system over to preventative health care -- which we desperately need!

There should be NO subsidy for "for profit" health care industry.

[karynnj]

139. Everyone ran on universal healthcare INSURANCE, even Kuchinich

No one ran on government paid health care.

I was responding to someone mentioning that he/she and others can not afford to pay for insurance. I responded with the fact that many plans seemed to deal with those people by helping them pay for whatever insurance they got.

The subsidy I was speaking to was for the individuals, above the income level for Medicaid, who are in the situation that poster described - they can not afford health care insurance - that is true if it is medicare for all, a public option or a private plan. In all cases, there are people who can not afford the full cost.

Think of S-CHIP. The poorest kids are covered with medicaid. SCHIP - pays a decreasing part of insurance for kids starting at the medicaid income threshold up to an income threshold in the SCHIP bill. For lack of a better word, the part paid by the government under SCHIP could be called a subsidy to family getting it when they buy that insurance.

If this is the wrong word, tell me the word that I should have used.

[defendandprotect]

178. Presume I misunderstood your post ....glad we're on the same side . .

[karynnj]

189. Your misreading was due to my inability to make clear what I was saying

as you can see - you were not the only one who thought I was saying something different than I intended. (When there are that many - the fault is mine.)

[jeff47]

75. Um....

How is lowering the cost to $0 not a solution?

[Hello_Kitty]

102. Oh but didn't you know that if you mandate insurance it magically becomes affordable!

That's what the people who favor mandates tell me, anyway. Funny how every one of them has been a person who either has employer or government sponsored health care. They can "afford" their health insurance so why can't everyone? :sarcasm:

[atreides1]

6. Waiting

How long until Helen Thomas is crucified like Olberman and Maher have been for being critical of the President?

tick, tock, tick, tock!

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. Should be interesting. You just know it WILL happen. nt

[ellacott]

13. I won't crucify her but I don't agree with her

That's an extreme opinion that I don't share.

[MNDemNY]

29. Tell me, how exactly has Obama taken the lead in whipping votes?

Obama can, and does do wrong. Extreme opinion??? I don't think so.

[xxqqqzme]

57. That was why it was such

'brilliance' that Rahm was appointed Chief of Staff - remember? Problem is, Rahm, being a loyal dlc dog, has no intention of supporting single payer or a public option. He is following the dlc corporate line faithfully.

[ellacott]

60. Who said he doesn't do wrong? You all only see black and white

Yes, I feel it's an extreme opinion. I don't care whether you think so. Is there no room for a difference of opinion. You all criticize those who defend Obama but you are no better in that you will not tolerate any dissent. The sad thing is that you don't see it.

The Senate knows his position. They know that over 70% of the country is in favor of a public option. They need to step up. I blame them more than the President.

[Mattylock]

138. He's got to be the whip too?

Don't we have congress people that are supposed to fulfill that role?

[FedUp_Queer]

173. Let me translate (for those who don't seem to understand this comment)

He's saying that it is not an extreme opinion that Obama can and does do wrong. I don't think that's an extreme opinion, either. Obama's fallible.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Extreme in what way?

You characterize without supporting that characterization. Without any counter argument.

[ellacott]

64. It's extreme to say he's running scared

[stillrockin]

152. What's extreme about giving us all health care?

[ellacott]

232. Who said giving all health care was extreme?

That doesn't make sense.

[dorkulon]

26. Won't be long now

There should be a lot of pre-made photoshop insult over at FR for them.

[TankLV]

233. Ya got THAT right!!! Helen is 100% Correct on this one - Obama is 100% WRONG!!!

FUCK "saint" Obama on this and many other things!!!

I do and will not EVER support obama on this unless HE supports SINGLE PAYER GOVERNMENT PROVIDED HEALTH "CARE" FOR ALL!!!

NOT "insurance" - CARE!!!

This is MY line in the sand - if he doesn't do this, then I will see a one termer...sorry...I will sit out the next time around...

[BlooInBloo]

7. (facepalm)

[Political Heretic]

115. That's what millions of americans are doing while watching this so-called health care "debate"

[SteelPenguin]

8. It's our own fault

When Democrats make excuses to vote in conservative democrats or DINO's rather than real Democrats who will help provide real improvement to our country, we doom ourselves to what we're getting.

When we embrace people like Arlen Specter into our party rather than support a good Dem like Sestak for Senate, we are begging to not get real health care reform passed.

We've compromised too much to get into a majority, and now too many of our representatives in that majority don't even want to vote for what we need and want.

[kenfrequed]

16. I agree!

Or when the DNC comes to town to try to influence the choice of congress-critters (see also those approved by the DLC) by pushing progressive candidates out of the race.

Or when the local conservative democrats try to convince you that a moderate mush-mouthed weak-willed democrat is more 'electable.'

Or when we buy into the money argument that the mainstream media brings up.

But yeah, moderate should not be a selling point.

[AlbertCat]

34. It's our own fault

Hahahahahahaha!

Like the "people" have a say.

Did "we" embrace Arlen Specter? When?

[Vidar]

39. Bravo Helen! Recommended.

[Forkboy]

135. Bah. Another "purity" projection.

[Jester Messiah]

76. Yes, ideological purity is MUCH more important than being able to accomplish anything!

:eyes:

[SteelPenguin]

78. How bout halfway

I can understand not running every candidate as a completely hard core leftist, but at the same time what's the point of compromising ideological purity if you still don't accomplish anything?

We need real solutions, the american people WANT real solutions, and our blue dog moderates and conservatives are still holding us back.

If we're not going to accomplish anything either way, I'd rather actually put forward REAL solutions to the problems in this country and have people willing to stand up and fight in the public arena for them.

[jeff47]

84. It's a leadership problem, not a rank-and-file problem.

The problems we're having "getting stuff done" are entirely due to Harry Reid.

He's extremely compromised due to his low popularity in NV. As such, he's in 'panic mode' and desperately trying to be both a Republican and a Democrat while being the majority leader. Hence we get a bunch of lame compromises and not a lot of standing up to the Republicans.

Ironically, standing up to the Republicans would probably help his popularity immensely, but he's still terrified that Republicans might say something mean about him.

He needs to go. Party leaders in Congress need to be from solid districts so they don't compromise their party to try and score points in their own district.

Specter's only a problem because the Majority Leader is a wet noodle. Imagine a Ted Kennedy (before he fell ill) as Majority Leader. There'd be no problem with Specter, there'd be at worst a 'public option' health care plan if not single-payer, and there wouldn't be any monumentially dumb bills like the recent vote on Gitmo.

[Jester Messiah]

90. The blue dogs exist for a reason.

Point being that we live in a representative democracy; the blue dogs are moderates because the people in their districts/states wouldn't vote for a hardcore leftist. If you want ideological purity, the place to start is with the voters. Convince the purple-state voters first; their representatives will follow.

[defendandprotect]

95. Nonsense . . . Carter carried all but one Confederate state . . . this is interference . . .

propaganda -- stolen elections -- and campaign finance BRIBERY --!!!

And the handiwork of the poisonous DLC in hatching blue eggs --

DLC-corporate wing of Democratic Party is betrayal of the ideals of the party --

and should be ousted!!!

[jeff47]

119. How 'bout the other D's?

"Carter carried all but one Confederate state"

Ok....how'd Clinton (92), Clinton(96), Gore, Kerry and Obama do with the "confederate" states?

This isn't 1976 any more.

[defendandprotect]

125. Before or after the steals . . .

and while you're thinking about the steals give some thought to the
corporate-press' role in the steals!

2000 and Fox/John Ellis wasn't the first -- just the noisiest.

[Jester Messiah]

141. So, faced with facts, you spew conspiracy theories?

The problem comes into sharper focus.

[RainDog]

158. we need an honest media

instead of the bullshit that passes for information.

as someone who has lived in a nation with universal coverage, I can say that THE ONLY REASON to not want such a system is because someone is either too ignorant/uninformed to understand what it means for them or they are part of an industry that makes money off of the health of the American people (and by, conversely, denying healthcare to many.)

The bullshit that so many have to go through b/c of insurance cos is repulsive. At one point, I was asked to give a statement because the health care provider for a major co. had tried to deny necessary care to so many people that those who were insured at the co. were fighting back.

why should we have to waste our time with bullshit like that when someone is already dealing with an illness in a family or a personal illness?

Does the American govt want to make sure the American people are ready for work? Then they should spend money on health care and education.

It is WRONG. IT IS IMMORAL to put the profits of one industry before the health and well being of the American population.

It's a sign of a sick society, not a democracy - not even a representative one because, the truth of the matter is that there are members of this nation who have to be dragged kicking and screaming into anything that is for the good of this nation, like civil rights or voting rights for women or UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE (because the same people who now blast health care were against unemployment insurance program that JFK pushed through while noting at the time that we were the only western democracy who did not have this program since FREAKING WORLD WAR ONE.

it's too bad that Obama is to the right of JFK on the most basic issues of a decent quality of life for American citizens.

[ihavenobias]

188. FYI: There is an ENORMOUS difference between a "moderate" and a corporatist.

The latter is what we have 9 times out of 10, and that has nothing to do with obnoxious and dismissive "purity" smears. The proof? Look at the so called moderates who oppose a strong public option and then look where they get most of their money.

The End

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[napi21]

15. I don't know about "shame" but I think a lot of people are missing

a side of Obama that he rarely lets show. It looks to me like he doesn't want to TELL lawmakers what to do but have the total HC Plan be a combined effort of Congress, BUT if they can't or won't get it together, that well hidden side of Obama will emerge. I've only seen that "don't F with me" side twice and even then it was easily missed. Once when Joe made that joke about Justice Roberts, and once with the reporter at the presser who kept badgering him on why it took him so long to make a statement on some important issue and he finally responded "Because I like to think before I make a decision!" That comment shut that reporter up immediately!

During the campaign I read a description of Obama as being like a boxer who bobs & weaves while letting his opponent throw punches and tire himeself out. Then when he sees an opp;ortunity...WHAM! he throws the KO punch. I think he's now in the process of letting the opponents tire themselves out.

[snappyturtle]

32. It's the bobbing and weaving that bothers me. Let's face it, the subtlety of

the President is way beyond many and frankly a waste of precious time. Your two examples didn't take time; the President was fairly quick to strike back. However, I hope you are right.

[snappyturtle]

33. dupe

[defendandprotect]

127. Good thing John Kennedy didn't hide his feelings about Segregation, Inc. . ..

I'd hate to have had anyone guessing on that one!

[demodonkey]

17. Helen ROCKS.

Single payer healthcare for ALL. We can't afford NOT to do this.

[DrDan]

18. Helen speaks for me - Go Helen!

why are we saddled with these spineless D's - either on the take of the insurance companies or no spine for a battle with the R's and blue-dogs

[tekisui]

19. knr!~

[jgraz]

21. "Obama clearly has no stomach for the political battle"

Helen just hit on my biggest disappointment with Obama. It seems he wants to somehow glide through this presidency without having to really fight for anything. His lofty speech about bipartisanship is completely the wrong way to go and insures that, whatever we get, on whatever issue, it will be polluted with Republican ideology.

[truedelphi]

126. Wasn't it weirdly upsetting that the

Real bipartisanship that is very much needed is not with those Repugs outside the party, but with the more progressive members within the Democratic Party.

Why is he listening to the Republicans more than to Howard Dean or Kucinich?

[defendandprotect]

129. Because the DLC is anti-single payer, anti-Kucinich and anti-Dean . . .!!!

Was that not clear in 2004????

And 2008???

The Repugs and Dems seemed to have been working together on Dean --

couldn't have been done without DLC --

and THEIR private corporation for presidential debates also pushed Kucinich out.

The more money you've collected from corporations the more favorable position you're

in with corporate-press -- they get 80% of that campaign finance BRIBERY money!

[Enthusiast]

227. It is not like President Obama

will suddenly be attacked on the MSM for taking an unpopular position. I mean on every TV channel they have GOP talking heads attack him for everything, anyway. Point is, every Obama critic has great credibility in the eye's of the MSM. So, to President Obama-do want you should, you are already receiving 24/7 criticism.

[malaise]

22. Bravo Helen

Obama should tear a page out of LBJ's vote-getting manual and shame the heartless opponents

[Karmadillo]

23. If we withhold money and votes from the Democrats who don't vote single payer, and

if we start taking to the streets to show that we're serious, we'd stand a much better chance of getting what we want. If we have billions and billions for the Forever War and billions and billions more for bank bailouts, we have the money to address our concerns on health care, education, jobs, and the environment. We have to stop pretending our elected "leaders" know what's best for the country. We have to push our issues into the national consciousness.

[Demeter]

41. It's Going to Take at Least a Week of General Strikes

Something anybody and everybody can do, anywhere in the nation.

[defendandprotect]

130. Why would any Democrat still be giving money to a party supporting these criminal wars??????

They're bankrupting our Treasury for one thing --

but, additionally, behind these wars lots of crap goes on -- crap that is

destroying our Constitution/freedom.

[truedelphi]

134. I will be there. n/t

[dgibby]

24. Time to round up the Blue Dogs and other DINOS and explain the facts of life/

He had no problem getting their votes on the war funding supplemental. No doubt the same strong arm tactics would work just as well for health insurance reform.

[defendandprotect]

131. The DLC is hatching these little blue eggs . .. you have to put a stop to that . ..!!!

[MelissaB]

25. K&R

[Romulox]

27. Obama is using "moderate Dems" to play Good Cop/Bad Cop; Obama doesn't support Single Payer either

but it is convenient for him to blame some third party for single payer's failure rather than admit to his liberal base that he is one of the "moderate" Democrats who oppose it.

[salguine]

30. Careful, Helen...you'll stand accused of wanting a pony.

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. +1

:evilgrin:

[QC]

160. Poutrage, too. n/t

[karynnj]

31. The problem is that there is a majority of people who want to keep the plan they have

fearing an alternative single payer plan would be worse for them than what they have.

This is a problem caused by where we started. It is no mystery why every serious Presidential candidate - Dean, Kerry, Edwards, Biden, Clinton etc all - just like Obama - promised that people who liked what they have can keep it. By its definition, single payer does not do that. This is also why Sanders does not yet have a co-sponsor on his bill.

Obama is supporting a public option and the House bill that includes it. She could argue for him to more aggressively back that, but it is silly for her to blast him for not supporting a plan she thinks best - when he does not agree. That is where the LBJ analogy fails. LBJ twisted arms to get votes for the plan he wanted. The correct analogy would be for Obama to consider doing so for public option - and it may come to that.

[Echo In Light]

37. The problem is that there's a majority of people who believe anything their govt says

[karynnj]

47. This has little to do with what the government said

It has to do with fear that what they have - which they value - could be replaced by something inferior. (A thought the RW media has been feeding)

[Echo In Light]

56. Exactly. People making fucked choices based on disinfo.

You don't think key govt reps are aware of the various types of disinfo being used against the public mind on something this big?

The sad thing is it actually takes so little.

[Enthusiast]

228. +1, for Karynnj and Echo

This is why media reform is key. How many times have we heard GOP talking heads tell us the American people don't want single payer, even in the face of these poll results.

[bvar22]

50. You will have to provide a link.

If given the choice between Medicare, or private For Profit Health Insurance, I simply can NOT believe that a large majority of Americans would choose private For Profit Health Insurance.

Medicare for ALL (HR676) in The House has 93 Co-Sponsors, so there might be another reason ($) why Sanders Senate Bill is lacking Co-Sponsors.

Everybody...Everybody I know who is approaching 65 can not wait to tell their For Profit Health Insurance to Kiss MY Ass!

[defendandprotect]

97. They can keep their plans . . .

[LuckyLib]

212. They want to keep the plan they have until it screws them or they lose their job.

Then they'll be singing an entirely different tune.

[SammyWinstonJack]

236. Exactly!

[Echo In Light]

36. It isn't a matter of not having the stomach for the political battle, it's institutional collusion

Everything about the corporate/state nexus that owns and controls this country is one, big inside job. Hence the required M$M to sell the public the movie script cover story for it all, 24/7.

Bush/Cheney were no more "incompetent" than Dems are "cowardly." Those are the preferred, establishment endorsed, phony 'criticisms' that strategically never cross into collusion/conspiracy territory.

[karynnj]

40. Or maybe there simply isn't majority support for single payer among the population

This, as much as insurance industry pressure, might be why Sanders has no co-sponsors. This is not an obscure issue or an obcsure bill.

2. <111st> S.703 : A bill to provide for health care for every American and to control the cost and enhance the quality of the health care system.
Sponsor: Sen Sanders, Bernard (introduced 3/25/2009) Cosponsors (None)
Committees: Senate Finance
Latest Major Action: 3/25/2009 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.

[Demeter]

42. 85% ISN'T a Majority?

[karynnj]

45. 85% are NOT in favor of single payer

The recent NYT/CBS poll had 72% backing a PUBLIC OPTION COMPETING WITH PRIVATE OPTIONS. The NYT article is well written and clearly explains that. I have never seen a number higher than 49% for single payer - and that was in a survey where about 8 alternatives were mentioned and respondents could say yes or no to each. It was the lowest percent yes of all the possibilities. A better survey would ask single payer vs a mix of private alternatives (with or without a public option).

Can I have a link to teh 85% number that gives the question as asked?

[bvar22]

52. That poll is misleading.

72% support the Public Option over NOTHING.
I do too, but I'm a SOLID supporter of Medicare for All when THAT is my option.

[karynnj]

70. It read to me like it was a poll of having a public option in the mix vs not having a public option

in the mix or the status quo for all people not on a current government plan. It is true that many who would support single payer would say yes to that public option question. (I mentioned it as it had the highest % I recall seeing)

My point is that there are not 82% in favor of single payer in any survey I've seen.

[bvar22]

108. Which would you prefer for your basic Health Care?

a) Private For Profit Health Insurance?

b) The much talked about but so far undefined and vague "Public Option"?

c) Medicare plus the ability to add on additional coverage from a For Profit?

I wonder how THAT question would be answered by a majority of Americans.
(Not really. I KNOW how the great majority would answer.)

[karynnj]

128. I think that , with b defined better as you correctly note hasn't been yet, would be a fantastic

question for a poll.

That would establish what people really want in a way that the existing polls, to my frustration, don't. This is a case where knowing what people really want and what they are completely unhappy with (different question) should be known. It seems though as both sides prefer not having clear information.

[bvar22]

162. And THAT is very troubling.

"It seems though as both sides prefer not having clear information."

Actually, there are three sides, though most don't know that.
I wouldn't know that HR676 (Medicare for ALL) in the House has 93 co-sponsors if I didn't haunt DU.
The Corporate Owned Media certainly isn't talking about it.
The Corporate Owned Democrats ("Centrists/ Half Republican") aren't talking about it either.

There IS one side that is clearly defined, and that is the side represented by the The Left...Expand Medicare to include ALL.

I fear the Public Option is purposely being kept vague so that they can pass a Trojan Horse for the For Profit Insurance Industry, and then slap themselves on the back in self-congratulation while screwing over the Working Class once again.
If this is what happens, REAL Health Care Reform will be delayed indefinitely.

Thank God we SAVED the Wall Street Banks !!!

NOW we have Your Children’s Money too !!!
And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it!
Now THIS is “Post-Partisanship” !
Better get used to it!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!

[sandnsea]

145. Astonishing isn't it

People with college educations, lawyers, doctors, journalists - why do they just blatantly lie like that and do they really think we are so stupid as to not be able to figure it out. Helen's done that on a couple of issues over the last several years. I just don't get it.

[redqueen]

69. Where is the "85%" from, please?

[Echo In Light]

53. People making choices based on propaganda, bias and disinfo = All American

Hence the choices are as fucking lame, asinine and empire-friendly as they usually are.

[defendandprotect]

98. Or maybe it's campaign finance BRIBERY . . .. ???

[madrchsod]

153. really? i guess those millions on medicare do`t count

i`m going on medicare in 2.5 years and i can`t wait. i`ll pay a supplimental and enjoy excellent care without some insurance company hacks questioning my doctors decision on my surgeries.

[Imagevision]

44. Helen, a very savvy lady...

[bvar22]

46. WOW. Helen must read DU.

My biggest disappointment is his lack of will in using the Bully Pulpit to rein in the Conservative Democrats in Congress.

Can you imagine how LBJ would have dealt with the traitorous Blue Dog coalition?
Can you imagine Joe Lieberman standing up and blocking LBJ's agenda?
or Harry Reid?
or Evan Bayh?
:rofl:
They would have been dog meat before sundown.

Obama needs to find his inner LBJ.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5893968&mesg_id=5894738

K&R for Helen Thomas.

[FunMe]

112. His Inner LBJ

I love that!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. Helen is a PUMA

[camera obscura]

58. Yeah, who can forget all her support for McCain/Palin.

[valerief]

51. kick

[donheld]

59. Obama should ...shame the heartless opponents.

Indeed he should. he's got the political capital to do just that. This is my main problem with the President.

[GliderGuider]

62. Obama discovers realpolitik

Moving up the power ladder to the presidency isn't just a quantitative move. The role is qualitatively different from merely sitting in the Senate. Obama now has his hands close to the levers of power, and has by now discovered that there are a lot of stakeholders he didn't know about before he took the oath of office. You don't get to become (or stay) President unless you bow to the interpretation of reality as expressed by the oligarchy. That group forms the pinnacle of the pyramid of Guardian Institutions that define and protect our cultural story. Because they are the ones who profit from its stability, they will not let anything destabilize their position if they can help it -- least of all a johnny-come-lately outsider President with populist leanings.

Anyone who is surprised by the way this presidency is unfolding hasn't been listening for the last 60 years.

[chervilant]

171. 60 years?!?

We humans have been doing this throughout recorded history! We have firmly cemented hierarchy into every social construct we've ever developed! By definition, hierarchy begets oligarchy. And, we will have to do more than listen if we hope to evolve beyond our species' stultifying spiritual adolescence...

[GliderGuider]

187. Very nice. I agree completely,

If you read the entire article at the "Guardian Institutions" link in my post above, you'll find I've plowed that ground already. I narrowed the time horizon down to 60 years so that I didn't have to get caught up in arguments over evolutionary psychology, game theory and human nature. Eisenhower's evocation of the Military Industrial Complex is far enough back in American history to make the point.

[chervilant]

238. Yes...

and at the risk of sounding pedantic about our species: insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

[Enthusiast]

229. Yup. GliderGuider, we are not

supposed to think about that.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. Helen is so correct

[newtothegame]

66. The intergalactic chess game that everyone on here keeps talking about will work out. I promise. n/t

[bvar22]

106. Chess....

a game where Pawns are sacrificed to protect The Royalty.

Really sucks when you are a Pawn who can't afford Health Care.

[rucky]

165. can't play chess without the pawns.

[liberation]

180. Actually... yes, you can...

... depending on the strategy, it is quite common to have sacrificed all your pawns after a few moves.

"Pawn" means "expendable" not "indispensable"...

The only piece you can't play chess without is the king ;-)

[Libertas1776]

67. I had

the absolute pleasure of meeting Ms. Thomas once; she is a real American hero.:patriot: When she is right, she is right, especially on this subject. Its a shame that she, along with the great Walter Cronkite and any other remaining vestiges of real journalism are in the advanced twilight of their years. When they are gone, I just don't know what we'll do. :scared:

[madfloridian]

68. So HT is opposed to the public option?

[QC]

71. OMG!! PUMA!!!11! ALERT ANG IGNORE!11!!! PONY!!!1! PUMA!!!!!1!!!!!11

[Forkboy]

137. LOL

[madrchsod]

154. PING ! PING !

[Lex]

166. .

:thumbsup:

[OwnedByFerrets]

72. Thom Hartmann's entire show is about health care today.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

73. I love Helen and always have. IMHO She's wrong though about his running scared. I believe

he's doing exactly what the corporations want him to do.

[democracy1st]

183. thats why the puppets must be called out

[Enthusiast]

230. No, not exactly. I feel President Obama

is faced with what GliderGuider describes in post #62. President Obama doesn't want to be a corporate lackey.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

235. The fact of the matter, if you agree with #62 he is owned. We don't know if he doesn't or does

want to be a lackey...we don't know him personally to know his intent. I will stand by what I said.

[Jester Messiah]

74. Some of these posters are as bad as the damned freepers.

They want a king, not a president. Presidents have to compromise and reach consensus with legislators who may not share their agenda. Throwing these childish tantrums doesn't solve a damned thing.

[redqueen]

79. I think a good deal of people here don't quite get how politics works. (nt)

[Captain Hilts]

195. I'll bet you have health insurance. I don't. nt

[bridgit]

77. Oh, got it, now it's called "Running Scared" when it used to be balanced, lawyerly...

informational, worldly, humanistic, speechifying, and don't forget Ray-Ban/3pt shot cool...until it came time to speechify over an issue HT cared for

[EFerrari]

143. It used to be support for universal healthcare. n/t

[Arkana]

80. I don't agree with Helen.

After this morning's press conference, I REALLY don't agree with her.

Obama's committed to getting the public option and he wants it to be able to compete with private insurers. That's what we wanted, isn't it?

[dflprincess]

85. No, we wanted single payer

and improved access to health care not continued support of the profit insurance companies who do their best to block access.

[jeff47]

87. Who are "we"?

Single payer is what you want. I happen to agree that a "Medicare for all" plan would be superior. But we botched it so badly in 1993 that the public isn't there. OTOH, there's strong support for a 'public option' that could easily be morphed into single-payer once the FUD is replaced with real data.

[dflprincess]

92. Apparently not the "we" you think want only a "public option"

because, God knows, those campaign "contributions" the private insurers give must be protected.

And, Medicare for all is single payer.

[Hansel]

116. And yet, Obama won without once advocating for single payer.

His campaign promise was to provide affordable health care coverage for everyone who wants it.

[dflprincess]

136. What choice did we have?

I didn't vote for Obama because of vague promises of "affordable" (whatever the hell that means) health "care" - even then it was clear he was looking for a way to save the insurance companies. I voted for him because he was not John McCain.

[defendandprotect]

88. Have you not been listening? Single Payer/MEDICARE FOR ALL --

[TankLV]

234. ESPECIALLY after this I REALLY support HELEN!!! FUCK Obama and his quizzling stances...

I've ALWAYS agreed with Helen - Helen speaks for ME - obama - not so much...

[Peacetrain]

82. Sorry Helen..you have it completely wrong this time!

[defendandprotect]

89. Where is Helen wrong?

[Peacetrain]

107. Obama never ran on single payer.. so the idea he does not have stomach for the battle

is magical thinking. Taking her perspective, one Obama did not run on.. assigning her perspective and hopes to Obama and then
finding fault because he is not running single payer?

[bvar22]

110. Obama DID promise to "listen", and give all sides a seat.

He keeps saying we would have to build a Single Payer System "from scratch", which isn't exactly true. We already have two successful Single Payer Systems up and running.


So far, he has turned a deaf ear to those petitioning for expanding Medicare to cover ALL Americans in spite of the fact that it has 93 Co-Sponsors in The House.

[Peacetrain]

117. Well that is a different subject.. whether he is giving all sides equal

"listening" time.. again.. helen thomas who i love, is off on a magical mystery tour with assigning to Obama a position he did not have, and then basically calling him a coward for not upholding the position he did not have??

[defendandprotect]

132. Obama isn't reinventing the wheel. . . the entire world has universal health care for citizens . . .

Obama has to stop pushing insurance company and "for profit" health care --

but, unfortunately, they're the very people who provided the campaign finance

BRIBERY -- !!!

I didn't see Obama running on secrecy or torture, either . . . but he's done a

lot to protect those positions lately!!!

What matters is that we do the most practical and cost-effective thing -- and that's

MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!

Try explaining why we need a system with insurance companies and "for profit" health

care corporations -- other than that they've made their case with money?

[earth mom]

199. Who gives a fuck what Obama ran on in this case? There comes a time to do the right thing

by the people who elected him.

There is NO way in hell Obama could have won without all those votes from the middle class, working class and poor.

He needs to remember that and grow a backbone and tell the fucking insurance companies to fuck off!

The insurance companies have FUBAR health care in this country for far too long.

Enough is fucking enough. :grr:

[ProSense]

201. "Who gives a fuck what Obama ran on in this case? " Obama? And, you can't be serious

There is NO way in hell Obama could have won without all those votes from the middle class, working class and poor.

Did you forget that he won campaigning on deliver a public option, not single-payer?

[earth mom]

204. There comes a time to do the right thing. How in the HELL can anyone argue with that?!

No doubt YOU have great health care and could give a damn about the suffering of millions. :puke:

[ProSense]

205. The right thing? Oh please.

Keep whining (and puking). He campaigned on a plan and is working to deliver it.

[earth mom]

206. Obamas plan is bullshit and everyone knows it. Good luck in 2012. nt

[ProSense]

207. Ooooh! Oh brother. n/t

[ProSense]

209. Here:

scary

[earth mom]

237. I don't click on links like that. nt

[tom_paine]

83. K & R

[vinylsolution]

86. Helen speaks for all of us....

.... she's a national treasure!

[Wizard777]

94. God Bless Her Golden Heart!

[Individualist]

96. Brava Helen! 84 recs so far. :)

[defendandprotect]

99. Sent Helen's comments along to White House . . . contact . . . here . . .

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

[DFW]

103. And Helen was there, chronicling LBJ while he was doing it

She is so right--all this resistance is coming from legislators who will never have to worry about
health care in their lives.

Wanna bet members of Congress wouldn't be very receptive to a bill that give them the health care
accorded to those US citizens with the least amount of health care, rather than the most?

[mnhtnbb]

104. Americans will get single payer when they get in the streets. Good on you, Helen.

Remember the comment from the French citizen in "Sicko"?

The difference between the French and Americans is that the French government is afraid
of its citizens and Americans are afraid of their government.

[Solly Mack]

105. K&R for Helen

[Just-plain-Kathy]

109. I want to but stock in the insurance company that will get this government contract.

I wonder if we have dems who are connected to insurance companies the way we have repukes in the oil/defense/investment industries.

[mnhtnbb]

114. Bingo. Check out Sen Ben Nelson's (NE) background

http://www.campaignmoney.org/node/269764/print

[MasonJar]

113. I love me some Helen! I would hope this article alone would spur Obama, but it will not.

Hw just is not a reformer in any sense of the word. Forget LBJ and FDR and JFK and MLK, Obama looks more like GWB with every day that passes.

[earth mom]

200. Who cares because he's got such a cute puppy!

:sarcasm:

[Blackhatjack]

120. The Problem Is The Anti-Public Option Members HAVE NO SHAME....

They sold their souls for the lobbyists' dollars long ago, and now they have no hesitancy about lying through their teeth to keep the 'gravy train' of campaign contributions and other perks rolling.

[AlphaCentauri]

121. Bravo Helen, thanks for saying it

I would vote for you next time

[RoccoR5955]

122. WTG Helen. Tell it like it is.

At least there are SOME real journalists out there!

[happygoluckytoyou]

123. SEND YOUR OPINION AT WHITEHOUSE.GOV ..... it only takes a minute to help make a point!!!!

[TBF]

140. K&R n/t

[jannyk]

142. Big k&r for Helen!!

[bunkerbuster1]

144. A rather trollish headline

A fairly thoughtful piece, though, from Helen.

[RBInMaine]

146. So where is the door-knocking, marching, calling congress members, etc. to get public healthcare????

[RBInMaine]

147. Public Option is doable, not full single payer right now. However, that would be a big step.

[Hansel]

148. Obama has never advocated for single payer.

During the campaign he promised affordable health care coverage for everyone who wanted it. He was honest about what he was going to work for and seems to be doing what he said he would do.

So why is it "running scared" that he is not advocating for something that he never utter a word of support for when he ran for president?

Helen must have been indulging in wishful-thinking if she thought Obama was going to advocate for single payer once elected. He was pretty clear that it was not his goal.

The whole thing seems suspiciously like a strawman.

[madrchsod]

149. obama does`t have the power that lbj had and never will.

[Riverman]

150. I LoveHelen Thomas! Nails It, just like Obama's Doctor!

I love Obama and voted for him, but I now doubt that he has the stomach for making any decisions or fighting vigorously for anything that he stood for in prior campaigns (President, Seantor and State Senate)or more importantly - for what is the right thing to do.

By not even considering Single-Payer, he and the health insurance financed Democratic Senators and members of Congress, have handed the Republicans a huge gift. Since there is no debate about Single-Payer, now the debate has shifted to No Public Option. Obama is a major disapointment on so many critical issues, that I just don't see him holding his high public approval ratings and for taht matter holding a coalition together (as he assembled in the last election in 2008) to be able to get re-elected in 2012. I would not be surprised if he is challenged by a moderate democrat in the 2012 primaries - someone who might be able to paint him as right of center, more of "republican light."

Single-payer will be implemented in the United States - sooner or later. I hope sooner!

[AtomicKitten]

151. It ain't over til it's over. It's premature to pass final judgment on a work in progress. n/t

[Deep13]

155. National (socialized) health care would eliminate unnecessary expense.

That would save a lot of money. Clinics and hospitals would need no billing departments, no collection agencies and no need to pad the bill for insured patients to pay for charity work, usually done at a time of crisis in the E-room. There would be no need to advertise, to go scrounging for cash from philantropic foundations. We would pay for health care through our taxes. The clinics and hospitals would provide health care and the Feds. would pay their expenses.

[seabeyond]

156. i did not see an afraid obama today at presser. n/t

[madrchsod]

157. du loves "our" helen.....

[iamthebandfanman]

177. yeah, because she speaks the truth.

not what everyone wants to hear.

[slipslidingaway]

159. Thanks for speaking the truth - the campaign promise to bring

all sides to the discussion table has not been met.

Real reform requires a real debate, not exclusion of the system that will bring health care to everyone at the most affordable price.

[QC]

161. I WANT THOSE DAMN FLOWERS BACK!!!1!!1!!!!

[girl gone mad]

170. Another one for the list.

[Divine Discontent]

163. AMEN!!! PTL for Helen! OUR HEALTH IS NOT FOR SALE! Demand healthcare not insurance President Obama!

[rucky]

164. Simple truths like that last line don't die easily.

Yay for Helen!

[swilton]

172. I think the Democrats know how the public feels

Asking them to do more polls on how the public feels about public options/single payer is analogous to saying we need more studies about global warming. There is a big difference between knowing what is just or right or good public policy

AND HAVING THE WILL (AKA BALLS, CAJONES, BACKBONE, OR ANY OTHER PART OF THEIR ANATOMY) TO DO IT. :argh:

[Joe Chi Minh]

174. K&R

[emald]

175. NO LESS Than single payer.....NOW....

The reduced costs of single payer make it the only real choice. That all of us would be covered makes it the only real choice. It is the only real choice...health care for all now.
And I just have to add that obtaining massive profit from health care is beyond reprehensible....it's evil, ugly.

[chill_wind]

176. Good for Helen. I'd love to think she pissed him off

a little before his press conference., From the reports of some of his feistier retorts, maybe she did.

[neuvocat]

184. I was thinking the same thing.

[shellgame26]

179. well said

[Double T]

181. BO and his corporate ass kissing administration will bow to the HMOs, PPOs, hospitals, BIG pharma...

and the rest of the health care industry and pass a watered down version of something that is supposed to be universal health care. Meanwhile the health care costs will continue to escalate and in the end business as usual will result on the SOBS. Nice won't get health care reform; kicking ass might stand a fighting remote chance. I wish someone would step into the ring for OUR side.

[G_j]

182. glad to K&R!

[Wednesdays]

185. K&R

:kick:

[BlooInBloo]

186. Can somebody refresh my memory please? Did Clinton campaign on single-payer?

[Tarheel_Dem]

194. No. But apparently we're not supposed to mention it cause it might be seen as

"rehashing the primaries" and get deleted. I'm sorry, but I have no respect left for Helen, as she wrote her first hitpiece only 24 days after Obama's inauguration. She's got issues.

[Stinky The Clown]

190. I love you Helen. This may be rec #184, but no less sincere than rec #1.

[balantz]

192. It's plain to see they are owned by the insurance industry. They work for them, not us. n/t

[Suji to Seoul]

193. Don't ever die, Helen. We lost Molly already, we can't lose you too!

k&r

[ProSense]

196. Wait, Obama is running scared over something he never promised?

Nearly all Republicans and some moderate Democrats oppose any public plan option. These are the same lawmakers who receive many government-provided perks including health insurance.

So lets fight for single payer? Not only is this a desperate attack, it doesn't even make sense: "government-provided perks including health insurance."

Is that what he should be fighting for?

Seriously,

:rofl:

[northofdenali]

197. Helen Thomas -

I wish there were millions of you.

[ProSense]

198. For those interested in Obama's position

Krugman

[earth mom]

203. Helen ROCKS!

:yourock:

[Just-plain-Kathy]

208. 202 recs...It's nice to see so many people agree with Helen. ...n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

210. Well written.

[ProSense]

214. Yes, by some people's standards

While the public plan option gets full consideration in Congress...Nearly all Republicans and some moderate Democrats oppose any public plan option.

Too funny!

[Douglas Carpenter]

211. I am quite reserved about any criticism of President Obama, but on this I 100% agree

[farmboxer]

213. Helen is correct.

Shame on America where the rich rule.

[earcandle]

215. Inmpeach everyone of them then because they are not doing their job which is to use

our money to take care of us and do what we want.

Hey kids, this is our money.  We work and pay taxes and they
use those taxes to do what in our name?

Look, tantrum and victim is not where it is at.

We got to get over whatever imprinting we have that make us
fear people who happen to have bucks and 
pull the trap door on them.  We can raise our own capital by
saving our money at at rate of 14%
as was done in the 50's.  Want to take taxes back to the
fifties, fine if you raise interest rates for
the public so we can have our own capital and get back to
having healthy lives not subjected to these
sickos' fantasies. 

Please.  They need help.  They are begging for it, indirectly.
 Do it.  

Do what?  work tirelessly and tell us what to do to help. 
Do what the Iranians are doing.  Talk to our people.
Use language to get our needs met. 

[bjobotts]

216. Sen, McCaskill D-MO. called single payer supporters "the far left".

[bjobotts]

217. She supports public option but clearly doesn't know the difference

[bjobotts]

218. Senators say it's off the table, not an option but can't justify 'why'.

[bjobotts]

219. There is no reform without at least a public option.Easy to see whos bought and bribed by this issue

[bjobotts]

220. If public option so bad why did lobbyists spend so much to prevent it

[bjobotts]

221. "We can't continue to deny care, cheat the people and make huge profits if

[bjobotts]

222. if congress introduces a public system of HC ins. How dare they end our profiteering"

[bjobotts]

223. The middle class is sitting like the frog in the heating water, slowly losing everything so as not t

complain...or jump out of the water when it finally boils.

[bjobotts]

224. Do not forget the senator's names causing your demise at the hands of the corporatists

[Enthusiast]

231. Yup, I heard it.

And it was just one more lie.

[GreenTea]

225. Very sad but true, this is what we are stuck with a prez afraid of what the tiny repug minority

and the insurance companies, while democratic senators have accept big money from the insurance corporations and are against any public option - TEN "Democratic" senators, as Ed Schultz tells us, and exactly who they their name & states...on The Ed Show show on MSNBC.

While Obama should be ramming single payer health care right down the filthy greedy insurance companies and the slimy minority republicans throats...the elitist selfish bastards!

But Obama won't do anything too bold, he's in that D.C. media bubble and believes the republicans threats & bluffs as so many idiot frightened, spineless Dems do...Kick the fucking republicans asses...

If single payer is not put forth and passed by the democrats...they will be the ones we blame and will NOT forget at voting time....

There are plenty of progressive Dems running against these sitting Dems in the up coming primaries. Kick all the Dems out who don't support health care single payer, again there's plenty of other Dems to choose from.



www.bartcop.com

[jeanpalmer]

226. I wonder if Helen has considered

the fact that Obama might be hedged in by government finances. When you're running a $1.8 trillion deficit and the economy is in a freefall, it's hard to make drastic change that might result in economic chaos.