Do the math: RAISE TAXES for a public health care option!

[Puzzler]

How much does the average American (who has health insurance) spend per year on health insurance? And how much would taxes have to be raised, on average, to cover this cost?

I bet you that the average tax increase would be way less that the average health insurance premiums people already pay. Way less.

[redqueen]

1. Repeal the bush tax cuts.

Those should never have been passed in the first place.

[msongs]

2. reduce the war budget & welfare to the military/industrial complex first nt

[Butch350]

17. That's a can of worms that won't be open for discussion...

When will some people get it? You don't fuck with the denfense budget.

[lindisfarne]

3. Oh. Gee. What an idea. That will convince the Republicans. Sorry to be so sarcastic, but come on -

it's been done. Lack of that information is NOT why it's so difficult to take profit away from the private insurance companies. You make health care more cost-effective - that is lost profit for them.

[dipsydoodle]

4. That's how the UK's NHS is funded

and has been so since 1948. I've quoted the rates here many times and they seem to be much much lower than you pay for private health insurance.

I'm equally sure that all of your successive adminstrations have been fully aware of that fact too. I don't think that there can be any doubt that the insurance companies have effectively got your government in their pockets as they say.

[Puzzler]

8. My point exactly...

... you'll see that very recently the opposition has shifted its argument. They are no longer arguing against the public option in principle. Rather, they are arguing about the cost. Herein lies the "raise taxes" argument. If the average American has MORE money at the end of the year, due to higher taxes and ZERO health insurance expenses, then the GOP's "cost" argument rings hollow.

[mwooldri]

19. Cost? Look at UK NHS vs US Medicare.

The figures speak clearly. US Medicare covers 46 million people, doesn't cover everything (basically requires additional insurance), and cost $400 billion in the 2008 budget. The UK NHS covers 60 million people, covers nearly everything and costs less than $200 billion in the 2008 budget. Medicare pays $8700 per person per year, NHS pays $3300 per person per year. These figures are likely skewed because Medicare covers people over 65, those most likely to use healthcare whereas the NHS covers everyone.

Who says we can't afford healthcare for all? All we need to do is change the Medicare tax - fix it at a rate that can cover everyone and have the government self-insure the nation. For better savings the government should administer the plan too and purchase a good number of health care providers - providing service direct is cheaper than contracting.

[Oregone]

5. Screw that Mr Canuck

Look, you are in a different world with a functional single-payer system. Its not exactly easy to convince people to pay more for a mixed-market, patchworked system that will still leave people falling through the cracks (especially the ones remaining on private insurance). Until they are serious about a real solution, no one needs to pay more all around. Raising taxes that may get diverted in the form of subsidies to private corporations' shareholders as profits is just bad policy.

You do realize that this public option is going to create some strange bastardized market system that has no evidence it will work to control costs? It will be "uniquely American" with the private insurers still at the helm.

I think they need to raise taxes in the US and fund a whole lot of things that Canada does. They wont. Thats why I live in Canada

[JDPriestly]

6. Puzzler, you've got it!

Americans seem to think that they will continue to pay for their health insurance AND also for other people's health insurance. The fact is that in the end, they will pay less and, not only will they have health insurances, but so will everyone else. That's the way it should work. They won't pay their private insurance plan plus. They will pay a rate, get to choose their insurer and everyone else will have the same choice. The insurance companies will have to reduce their overhead in order to compete. Considering how much of the health dollar goes for the overhead of the insurance companies, that will bring a lot of savings.

[dipsydoodle]

10. Out of curiousity

do you think that if it was proposed that taxes were raised to provide single payer there would be resistance from some < selfish bastards > who didn't believe they should pay tax for the healthcare of those unable to pay - children, the unemployed, those retired etc ?

For comparison everyone in the UK is covered , contributing or not , from cradle to grave.

If you should wonder why I should use the word contributing it because that's how the specific tax is classed here in the UK - its never been called tax even though it is.

[Puzzler]

11. Those "selfish bastards"...

... will have the option, of course, of continuing to pay thousands of dollars per year for private health insurance if they wish.

Seriously, though, there are ways around this. On idea possibly, is to give some of those selfish bastards a tax deduction for not using the public plan. However, I suspect that many selfish bastards will rapidly opt for the public option when they realize that they can literally save thousands of dollars per year by using it.

[JDPriestly]

7. Puzzler, you've got it!

Americans seem to think that they will continue to pay for their health insurance AND also for other people's health insurance. The fact is that in the end, they will pay less and, not only will they have health insurances, but so will everyone else. That's the way it should work. They won't pay their private insurance plan plus. They will pay a rate, get to choose their insurer and everyone else will have the same choice. The insurance companies will have to reduce their overhead in order to compete. Considering how much of the health dollar goes for the overhead of the insurance companies, that will bring a lot of savings.

[annabanana]

9. Absofriggenlutely. . a little additional deduction.. hardly be noticed.

Save us all bundles!

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Doing the math ...

If someone pays $400 $222 per month for a private insurance plan (based on new information from post #14 below) that comes out to $13.33 $7.40 everyday or $2.50 $1.39 per hour worked (40 hours a week for 4 weeks)

Now, if you add a deductible and prescriptions, obviously it would be more.

But, all things being equal:

PRIVATE PLAN
Cost:
a. $2.50 $1.39 per hour (40 hour week for 4 weeks every month)
b. may increase according to insurance whimsy
Deductible: extra
Prescriptions: extra
Coverage:
a. subject to denial by insurance whimsy; doctor's opinion not considered
b. must be employed
c. might not be transferable to new job
d. available only to those who can afford it

PUBLIC OPTION
Cost:
a. $2.50 $1.39 per hour (40 hour week for 4 weeks every month)
b. may increase/decrease according to ability to pay (sliding scale)
Deductible: based on ability to pay (sliding scale)
Prescriptions: based on ability to pay (sliding scale)
Coverage:
a. subject to doctor's approval
b. employment status irrelevant
c. fully transferable to new job/change in employment status
d. available to every American citizen

I know I missed something.

[ddiver]

14. You missed this, an average household of 2.5 people spend $2664/yr not $4800.

This is according to the U.S. Dept of Labor.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. So, it's even less. Thank you. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

18. I updated it using the $2,664 figure. Do you have a link for that number? n/t

[Uben]

15. I'm sold!

Try paying $15,000/yr for a $5000 deductible policy. DO the math, that's $7.21 an hour for insurance premiums!

52 wks X 40 hrs=2080 hrs

$15,000 divided by 2080=$7.21/hr

That's what I have to pay because my wife had the unfortunate experience of contracting breast cancer in 2003.


My wife and I are retired, but are too young for medicare (still 7 yrs away)

They want it all....every dime, every penny. What they don't want, the oil companies do. Of course, that's after the banking industry took 50% of our savings!

Where did it all go south?

[elocs]

13. I've always said, $10,000 for private heathcare, or $10,000 increased tax for universal healthcare.

What's the difference except everyone is covered with universal healthcare.

[slipslidingaway]

20. Why should we pay more taxes so people can buy private

insurance???

[eridani]

21. I don't mind having my taxes raised for actual care

I really do mind having them raised to subsidize useless shitstain middlement.

[Festivito]

22. Public option is HALF the cost, not more, i.e. LOWER taxes.

and cover everyone for everything.

Other countries pay about $3000 per year per country-person for full health care that covers everyone, even tourists.

We were paying $6000 per American per year, and now we're paying over $8000. Yet, 40 million Americans supporting that 8K figure do not have health insurance. Add that there are more uninsured now, and a new class of underinsured.

The additional cost goes to insurance companies, for denial of care, care we need. It's ludicrous.

$$*persons= Total HC Cost
8K * 300M = 2.4T$

Add 1T$ over 10 years or .1T$/year we'd pay 2.5T$ according to Kennedy plan and still leave people uninsured.

3K * 300M = .9T$
Covers everyone for everything.

SAVING 1.5T$ per year.

Covering everyone.

That, sire, is a tax break, not a tax increase.

Do the math, indeed.