Something stinks and it smells a lot worse than a mere sex scandal.

[Bjorn Against]

So Mark Sanford tells us that he was having an affair with a woman in Argentina. He wants us to believe that he was so deeply in love that he abandoned his state for nearly a week without telling anyone where he was going just so he could spend a final few days with the woman he loved. He wants us to believe that he spent the last days crying at her side because he had to leave her. He wants us to believe that this affair was what his whole trip to Argentina was all about. Well I don't buy it for a minute.

When Sanford came back from Argentina this morning he had to have a cover story, his staffers had just told us that he was on a hike on the Appalachian Trail and it was obvious to all that this was a lie. There is no way that Sanford could have spun this story in a positive way, if he had tried no one would have believed him and people would be digging very deeply into his story. And so Mark Sanford “came clean” and admitted to an affair. But did he really come clean? How do we know that he is telling the truth about the affair? Is it possible that he may have been involved in something much worse than he is letting on but is trying to distract us? Why should we believe that this woman was so important to him that he would risk his political career to travel to another hemisphere to be with her? If he wanted to be with her so badly why didn't he fly her to this country where he would have been much less likely to get caught? Is there a reason that she couldn't have traveled here? Or perhaps more importantly is there a reason that Mark Sanford had to go to Argentina, and if so how do we know the reason he had to go down there was solely about this woman?

There are some serious questions that need to be asked here. First we need to find out if this woman even exists, because as of right now I have seen no direct evidence that she does. If she does exist then who is she? What financial connections does she have? Does Sanford have any financial interests in Argentina? What was Sanford doing on his trade mission last year?

We know that Sanford referenced Argentina in many speeches that he has given in the past, he obviously had an interest in Argentina's economy and I want to know why. We need to look beyond the sex scandal and try to get to the bottom of what really happened because this story stinks, and I don't think it is about sex I think it is about money.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Normally, I'd agree with you,

because it's always "Follow the money."

But, watching this guy melt down today, I think it's a love affair, and I think it's ended badly ..................

[Bjorn Against]

4. There may be an affair, but how do we know there is not more than that?

If this woman does indeed exist we need to find out how he knew her and what kind of financial connections she may have had. There very likely was an affair involved, but that does not mean this is just about an affair and nothing else.

[Mojorabbit]

8. There is a statement from his wife on the

statesman's website where the emails were published. I think he probably just fell in love and acted on it and it all blew up in his face.

[Bjorn Against]

10. I still think we need to ask the questions.

There is no doubt that Sanford had an interest in Argentina's economy, he has referenced it in several speeches. That doesn't necessarily point to a financial scandal, but it gives us a hint that he may have a major interest in Argentina beyond a woman. Maybe it is just an affair, but we know that he had his staff lie about the trip, and I see no reason to believe that he is telling the complete truth now.

[malaise]

18. I think the interest was his mistress

All his trips revolved around seeing her.
Seriously I think he lost his head, career and probably his family over this one.

[ControlledDemolition]

23. His mistress may be a mister? n/t

[anigbrowl]

29. Even if that were true, why the sudden urgency?

Is dealing with an exotic boyfriend somehow more urgent than dealing with an exotic girlfriend? His career is likely in tatters anyway - if he were gay it'd be a bit more scandalous (by GOP standards anyway) but not that much more. Ted Haggard got through that one. The panic dash (by someone with enough experience of government to know it would attract curiosity and comment) speaks to me of something that would would involve jail time if left unattended.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

56. The head he used for thinking

was not involved in this deal :)

[smirkymonkey]

63. I agree with you - I don't think someone in that position would do

something so stupid just for the sake of an affair (I agree that he would have flown her here instead and found a closer rendezvous spot). Unless, of course, he's batshit crazy. That's the only explaination I can think of. I think there's more to it though.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. Absolutely,

but I think the coverage of this whole matter has just begun.

We'll know everything shortly...................

[calimary]

44. My husband swears there's still another shoe that hasn't dropped.

At first, when all we wondered about was a "Where's Waldo" game on "Hiking in the Nude Day", he said he was sure there'd been an affair. But he thought it was going to turn out to be a gay affair. He still thinks there may be something like that hidden up the road with this one.

[Historic NY]

2. What interests does he have in that foreign country? Has he involved the state.

Why is he carrying on in secrecy with a foreign government? Many questions that need to be investigated by the State & perhaps the Justice Dept.

[LostInAnomie]

3. "Is there a reason that she couldn't have traveled here?"

She's married and has two kids.

"How do we know that he is telling the truth about the affair?"

What possible upside could there be to for a married man to admit an affair with a married woman? Especially, when that man is an elected official, and has 4 kids of his own.

Read his emails to her. He does seem to have fairly strong feelings for the woman.

[Bjorn Against]

7. He is married has four kids and a state to run.

He was not in much of a position to travel either.

There is only one possible upside to him admitting to this, and that would be if the real story is even worse. If he can distract us with something that is scandalous then he may hope that we will look away from something that is even more scandalous. Let's face it if you disappear and your staff lies and says you are on the Appalachian trail when you are really in Argentina there is no good way to spin it. And make no mistake about it his staff knew where he really was, if they didn't then there would have been search parties all across the country looking for him. A Governor can not just disappear for six days without the National Guard being called into search for him, they knew where he was and there was clearly some sort of cover up going on.

[LostInAnomie]

9. Personally, I think that he probably went down there to convince her to keep quiet...

... or go into hiding. Sanford probably was planning on running for President. He probably went down there to throw a little cash around and make sure that she doesn't appear during the campaign. I wouldn't doubt that he figured he could get away over Father's Day weekend without being noticed, do what he had to do, then get back. He probably didn't figure that his disappearance would become a national story.

[Bjorn Against]

12. Maybe, but I don't see any reason to believe his version of events.

I am not saying there was not an affair, I just have a hard time believing this is limited to an affair. I don't think it is possible for a Governor to just disappear for six days without anyone noticing, Governors have a lot of people who want to talk to them and people tend to notice when they are not around. He was extremely stupid if he thought he could get away with flying to Argentina just to be with a woman.

[anigbrowl]

31. That doesn't really make sense though

This guy was a congressman for 3 terms and has been governor for several years. To disappear for several days and imagine that it wouldn't attract comment is hard to believe. If he'd left Friday night and been back Monday morning I'd see your point, but Sanford has been in public office long enough to know it limits your privacy.

I mean, if you or I disappeared without explanation for 5 days (neither of us being remotely famous), would we be that surprised to return and find someone had filed a missing persons report, or have a voicemail filled with 'where the hell are you?' message? Heavens, I'm one of the more introverted people I know and there's no way I could go off on such a jaunt without making waves.

[Jester Messiah]

59. Slightly o/t, but...

Why does anyone who is having or has had an affair even contemplate a run at the presidency? It is -bound- to come out, either on the trail or even worse, in office. It's like going for a walk with a live grenade in your pocket.

[southerncrone]

69. I feel the same way. Toooo goofy to believe.

Here's my post elsewhere on DU:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=95260&mesg_id=95419
Another theory:
He could also have gone down there for the birth of his child. That would explain the crying & abrupt departure, especially on Father's Day weekend. Do we really know the exact dates of his other Argentine trips?

Regardless, I believe we don't know the half of "Mark's Excellent Adventure", & I hope some of the media will keep after the truth on this & not let it fall by the wayside. He could still reemerge in 2016, by that time this will be a forgotten dalliance.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

54. What about the other woman? Is she a government official?

What about her husband? How did he meet her so long ago? I think there is more to this story. I don't care he cheated on his wife - she should take care of that issue with duct tape, a potato peeler and a pissed off attitude.

Maybe there is more to the story if we knew more about the woman and how he met her. This has been going on for years. Did he meet her while in Congress? I'm betting we haven't heard all of the story yet.

[countingbluecars]

5. I read that he owns

a real estate investment company-leasing and brokerage. Probably just an affair, but you never know.

[wiggs]

6. General rule: Anytime a republican leader admits to a mistake in public you can

assume the truth is much worse.

[troubledamerican]

33. Bingo.

[fascisthunter]

65. .

[peacetalksforall]

13. Maybe the woman is a Moonie? Or is better to say she is a Rev. Moon follower?

Was there something on the net about him being in Northern Argentina.

Here's a couple of paragraphs on background - there is a good map that shows part of the Argentina - Paraguay border.

Is she Argentinian? American?

Maybe she is in our military - did he fly on a commercial or military aircraft?

"Bush Family Paraguay Hideaway Update: WMR's Paraguayan sources have confirmed that George W. Bush recently bought 42,000 hectares (over 100,000 acres) of land in Paraguay's northern "Chaco" region.

The land, near the town of Chaco, sits atop huge natural gas reserves, according to sources in Asuncion. Moreover, the land deal was consummated in a dinner meeting between Bush's daughter Jenna and Paraguayan President Nicanor Duarte. Although Jenna, who was in Paraguay under the cover of a 10-day UNICEF trip to visit child welfare projects, put the Bush family seal of approval on the land deal, the actual legal papers were worked out by Bush family lawyers and business representatives. Jenna Bush is supposedly working for UNICEF in Panama City. The Bush land is close to a new U.S. military installation, the Mariscal Estigarribia Air Base. It is also nearby a huge tract of land purchased by Sun Myung Moon that sits astride Latin America's largest water aquifer, the Guarani aquifer. According to earlier Madsen reports, Bush and the Carlyle Group are also the owners of major tracts of land along the proposed US super-highway linking Mexico and Canada, land that will be worth hundreds of millions more when the highway is completed. Related: See Neo-Con Escape Plan to Paraguay? below.


Neo-Con Escape Plan to Paraguay? Fascists seem to have a penchant for escaping to this place. Apparently Bush and cronies are allegedly buying land down there .. "An Argentine official regarded the intention of the George W. Bush family to settle on the Acuifero Guarani (Paraguay) as surprising, besides being a bad signal for the governments of the region...Luis D Elia, undersecretary for the Social Habitat in the Argentine Federal Planning Ministry, issued a memo partially reproduced by digital INFOBAE.com, in which he spoke of the purchase by Bush of a 98,842-acre farm in northern Paraguay, between Brazil and Bolivia." Related Article: Bush Buys Land in Northern Paraguay"

2 paragraphs and a subject line gives a big picture. It's a little typical of many articles coming out during the last two years.

http://www.cco.net/~trufax/general/bush_family_paraguay_hideaway_up.html

The speculation game. The facts aren't as interesting as a scriptwriter would make it.

[Bjorn Against]

15. Interesting, there are many things that we need to look at.

Right now I am not so much speculating as I am asking questions, something stinks but I don't know exactly where that smell leads yet.

[troubledamerican]

34. Best general post ever. I'm sick of the "face value" DU suckerdom.

Of course the "affair" stinks. I am truly, truly amazed to see this sentiment found anywhere on DU.

"Bjorn Against", I am going to remember your name. Finding you on a website like this is stunning.

[Beam Me Up]

45. Here's a "coincidence" for you.

Argentina has recently been in the news in some circles http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html">on a whole other topic.

[troubledamerican]

60. Bannable link, off-topic, and not related to my remarks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. My first thought was the Paraguay connection, too

Paraguay does have airports, but the nearest intercontinental airport is in Buenos Aires.

[southerncrone]

68. Same here, I posted as much on one of the earlier threads on this story.

[Turbineguy]

20. Here's a nice airport:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariscal_Estigarribia

[robinlynne]

25. her English says she is not American. Their emails are on MCClatchy site.

[bertman]

14. Yes, the love-stricken, nookie-deprived Govornicator just walking away from his duties as

Chief Executive of a state because he wanted to end the relationship with his lover in Argentina, does sound a bit disingenuous, to say the least.

Either Governor Sanford is mentally incompetent or he is covering up something BIG. Or maybe both.

Can't wait to find out what it is.

Good call, Bjorn Against. This deserves some serious scrutiny.

[tekisui]

17. Like an abortion or something?

[SmileyRose]

19. Sanford's weeniegate is as important to me as was the Clenis.

His weenie, his wife, his mistress, his family - none of my damn business.

Neglecting the duties of his job might be another story if I was a citizen of his state.

[Bjorn Against]

21. What I am saying is that this may be about a lot more than his weenie.

If he had any financial interests in Argentina then this story could be much worse than it appears on the surface. This guy had Presidential ambitions and that makes his dealings with foreign countries very relevant, and if this goes beyond an affair it could potentially have some big implications.

[TahitiNut]

30. Yeah ... at least Monica gave Clinton another reason to stay IN the Oval Office.

:dunce:

[anigbrowl]

32. On the job - even when I'm on the job!

sorry, that was too good to resist.

[SmileyRose]

50. Snort

:)

[LaydeeBug]

22. I think he was in Colorado with Ted Haggart's boyfriend. nt

[MzShellG]

24. That notion has been in the back of my mind...

Since the beginning. Every time someone jumps to the conclusion of an affair, there's always just a hint of doubt about that scenario. Just a nagging feeling. Time will reveal the truth I suppose.

[chill_wind]

26. What is so bizarre is that he wasn't even trying not to get caught.

It makes no sense for anybody with any higher political aspirations of any kind.
It makes no sense for anybody who even wanted to remain a governor.

So if it wasn't the woman, whatever it was, if it was driven by something greater than the greatest overt political power (such as a possible presidential bid and office) which he clearly threw away any chance of-- what? I know what you mean.

Then there's the newspaper story that was all rolled up and ready to go, but they say they sat on it for 6 months because they couldn't authenticate the emails... then wham-- their legal department says go for it.
They cross their fingers, decide to confront him and he confesses just like that.

OTOH, when I think of many Republicans, I think too of Occam's Razor. Yes, they many of them do seem that politically stupid and self-destructive...

[Irreverend IX]

42. The timing of the email leak was way too convenient.

It's like a prepackaged scandal in a box. Everyone wonders what Sanford was up to, and then bam, the media gets a bunch of scandalous emails, his wife writes a "standing by my man" letter and he tearfully apologizes. It's like a soap opera - so dramatic that you forget the characters' motivations make no sense. You don't get to be a governor by casually disregarding your public image. Whatever the alternative was to Sanford's spectacular sacrifice of his political career, he was scared shitless of it.

[northzax]

49. they'd had the emails for months

Or so the story goes.

I think the precipitating event in all this is that his wife gave him the boot. By the way, how great is it to see a political spouse who doesn't 'stand by her man' but tells him to leave?

[chill_wind]

58. December, the story goes, but even that is vague, according

to the reporter interviewed last night (was it on Rachel?) She says she's aware of the stories that the paper may have had the emails as far back as December, but she denied her team had them anywhere near that long. That they hadn't been put out there before yesterday because they couldn't authenticate them. She said in the end they went to their legal department and went ahead with them after piecing together their hunches about his whereabouts from the emails and then catching him actually coming back on his flight at the airport.

[anigbrowl]

27. I normally don't go for tinfoil headwear, but this time I'm inclined to agree

If it was just money, though, it probably wouldn't involve the sudden and mysterious disappearance, which seems almost calculated to attract attention. It would have been so much easier to announce a minor illness or just say he was taking a week's holiday - he's the governor after all, who's going to say he can't take a week off? You don't get to that age and a quite successful career in politics without having some instinct for how the public thinks.

I can think of several possibilities, though since I have only a hunch rather than any evidence I'm going to just sit on them. But in this case, 'unstable' is the 'good' possibility.

[chill_wind]

28. "..almost calculated to attract attention.." You put your finger right on it.

eom

[anigbrowl]

39. Here's some food for thought...

SHUSTER: And to be fair, I mean it was a question that he was asked. And I suppose he just wanted to sort of play along, instead of saying, look, there‘s nothing to it.

But here‘s the other thing that‘s going on. Here‘s some of the language, for example, from South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, who opposed the stimulus and whatnot.

He says, “It kind of sounds like the Soviet grain quotas of Stalin‘s time—X number of jobs will be crated because Washington says so. If we go too far in just spending too much money and borrowing money, we could put ourselves in the exact position Argentina found itself in the 1920s when they had, you know, cratering of their currency. If you look at the Weimar Republic, you know, between World War I and World War II, you had a cratering of the currency, so much that you ha to carry a wheelbarrow load of currency to get so much as a loaf of bread.”

Talk about doom in his metaphors. I mean, what does this accomplish for people like Mark Sanford?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29365907/

Sanford, a doyen of the tea-baggers, has been repeating the almost identical references to Argentina's history since Obama took office, complaining that under Democrats' economic stewardship, this country is headed for hyperinflation and economic oblivion.

Indeed, searching back through news for Mark Sanford and Argentina (actually, wondering if if he had been promoting trade or industry links between South Carolina and Argentina), the vast bulk of the links I got consist of quotes from Sanford about the dreadful things that happened to Argentina's economy in the 1970s as a result of hyperinflation. It doesn't seem to much to say that he's written a lot of the current right-wing economic talking points.

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1095189&nav=0RaPDWOK state of the state Address from january.
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/mar/15/hardly_race_card75123/ similar talk in March
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516618,00.html Yet more talk of Argentina's economic doom from tea parties in April

Now, I know Sanford claims to be worried about the deficit and it's true that Argentina suffered hyperinflation. Perhaps Sanford just likes a bit of hyperbole, and Argentina is never far from his mind. Still, I can't help wondering if the upcoming (sunday) mid-term elections in Argentina are a factor: http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN2444455320090624

By the way (less relevantly), Mark Sanford was last year one of the top 50 spenders of taxpayer' money on international travel: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2008/12/02/met_502364.shtml He gets around South America a lot.

[Hannah Bell]

35. my question, how's they get the emails? who released them? why are there no legal issues?

they're from last year - takes some finagling unless the releaser is one of the principles.

[K8-EEE]

37. Either the wife of the mistress sent the emails.

Each of them would have a motive. Sanford has political enemies, but I doubt they would have access to his private email accounts.

The wife was also his "top advisor." She wouldn't be the first wife to know something was up and go pawing through the husband's stuff for an answer. And if he was unresponsive -- and she was sick of playing Stepford, she might have snapped and sent the emails to the paper. Have the whole thing blow up then it's over!

Same with the mistress, she could us the Mrs. Father Cutie' trick -- get the guy busted, he gets thrown out by the wife (or the church in Father's case) and comes running to YOU. Then you're no longer the "other woman" but THE woman.

[Hannah Bell]

40. the paper got the emails one year ago - approx the same time the affair started.

i doubt it was the wife.

[Canuckistanian]

51. That's a good point about his enemies

Of course, there are no Democrats powerful enough to hurt him, but didn't Sanford have a terrible relationship with the Republicans in the state legislature?

[K8-EEE]

36. What I think -- the lady was in shake-down mode??

From the emails it's clear he had feelings for her -- but do we know that she was on the up and up with it?

The emails were sent anonymously to the paper. Who the hell sent them? DID SHE?

I wonder if she was blackmailing him.

Remember, his decision to "come clean" came AFTER he was caught. AS OF THIS MORNING THEY WERE GONNA GO WITH THE HIKING. When the reporter caught him at the airport (because she worked at the paper where these emails had been sent) he was STILL acting like, Buenos Aires was a last-minute change to the hike.

AFTER she told the paper she busted him coming in from B.A. And they informed his staff that they had these emails.

THEN there's an affair AND...it's OVER. BECAUSE HE REALIZED SHE HAD DONE IT.

[JDPriestly]

38. I agree. Sex +. His story makes no sense.

He may have been trying to pay her off. That could be how money and sex mixed. There are e-mails that suggest some kind of sexual relationship, but I haven't seen the dates on the e-mails. There is more to this than sex.

Would she have had to have a visa (which takes time to obtain) to come here? Is that why she waited? Is she some kind of security risk and therefore prohibited from coming here? Did she formerly try to live here illegally? Has she ever been deported? If so, maybe she can't come into the U.S. at this time. These are also possible explanations for his trip to Argentina.

Also, it is possible that she is married and has a family and is sneaking around. Her e-mails (what I read of them) suggest that. That could be why she did not come to the U.S.

[Politicalboi]

41. Maybe after losing his family

And not able to run again he just said "fuck it". But there could be more. I always thought there was more to the theft of 2.3 Trillion dollars on 09/10/01 from the Pentagon and then 9/11 happened.

[Marr]

43. I think you make a very good point.

Looking at this from a strictly business sense, I think some investigation is warranted. It could very well be that it's no more than a run-of-the-mill affair. It could also be something else. I would like to know who this woman is and who, if anyone, pays her.

If we accept Sanford's own story, we're talking about a US Governor having an affair with a foreign national, and I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the possibility that she could've been some kind of honeypot.

If I'm not mistaken, our own intelligence agencies would fire an employee for doing what Sanford did (having an affair with a foreign national and not disclosing it), because it makes them vulnerable to manipulation or blackmail.

[salguine]

46. I'd rather focus on healthcare, thanks. I hope others would, too.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

47. 'Other' checking in. Back to healthcare! n/t

[dorkulon]

48. What would be worse, from a PR perspective?

Do you think some financial/criminal subterfuge in a foreign country would hurt a GOP politician worse than a sex scandal? I don't. The only thing worse would be hookers/men/children. Nothing else could hurt him worse.

[Bjorn Against]

52. Criminal charges could hurt him worse, it is not all about PR if there is prison time involved.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

66. Drug trafficking?

Human trafficking?

Who knows? Any number of things could hurt him worse than a sex scandal. Look at Vitter or Craig -- nothing ever happened to them.

[Wiley50]

53. Yeah!They say he was in Communicado. I've checked. There is no town in Argentina named Communicado!

But if true, i think Obama should put him in charge of foreign affairs

[chill_wind]

55. badabumpa! :-)

Tough crowd, tough crowd. Me, I'd give you a DUzy, lol.

[Jester Messiah]

57. The simplest explanation is usually correct.

A repub thinking with his dick? Done.

[nolabels]

62. Yep, no doubt, participating in some S&M with space aliens being the obvious answer

This would also explain why his wife was so unconcerned about his whereabouts :think:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. Take The Tin Foil Off. Not Everything Is A Conspiracy.

:eyes:

[Cleita]

64. Okay, I'll put my tinfoil hat on for a moment. There seems to be a

neo-con interest in Argentina and I don't think it's about the Tango or beef. Remember the Bush twins visiting down there and Cheney and many others connected with the Bush administration? Also, since Uruguay and Paraguay border Argentina, wasn't there something in the news about the Bushies buying property there? I wonder what they are up to.

[bahrbearian]

67. They like to wrap you in Tin-Foil if you question the Fairy Tail.

[theboss]

70. I think the reverse vampires are involved

I think the guy flew down to South America to have dirty sex. And, frankly, that's his prerogative.

The abandoning the state and lying to the voters about where he was part is the scandal. This dude wanted to be President? How do we know he wouldn't take off for TJ without telling anyone the minute he got a boner?