I lost 4 of my seven free tv stations in the digital "conversion".

[Smarmie Doofus]

I retain three of my old old stations ( PBS is one of the three... the gods be praised) and have two new Spanish language stations ( we're essentially monolingual English) and a 24 hour kiddie station that seems to have on the cartoon about the "big red dog" pretty much round the clock. Plus some kind of weather channel dealie. I know what the weather is in South Bend, Indiana ( and I know WHY!) but I live in NYC.

Boooo. Hisssssss.

On the plus side, I lost FOX ( Hah ! So long, suckers!) but in so doing lost The Simpsons ( waaaahhhhh!!).

Question: Is the conversion thing a scam to make everyone buy cable?

[ingac70]

1. My mom claimed to pick up more channels....

when my little nephew set up the TV in his room at her house he ended up with about 15 more channels to watch.

[hlthe2b]

17. I gained channels too, BUT.....

they are extremely antenna sensitive (I do not currently have an outside antenna and probably can't put one up where I am currently) but I have to do extreme acrobats to pick up even the normal channels. I do, however have an expensive amplified indoor antenna--supposedly the best rated one, says Hammacher Schlemmer... (LOL) SOmedays it works really well.. Somedays I plug in my simple $15 rabbit ears with better luck.


If there is a storm, hang it up-- I loose nearly everything. (Nice, eh... just when you might need emergency reception).

I don't want cable--haven't had it for nearly 6 years. I sure don't want a dish... But, I'd like to be able to pick up the networks and PBS... Some days I can, but I surely can't depend on being able to switch the channel or moving at all while watching...

:shrug: I feel sorry for the elderly on limited budget... They are, in many cases, just screwed.

[Arkansas Granny]

35. I've had the same experience with the antenna sensitivity. I bought

an inside antenna that had a "superior" rating, but it's still a little dicey. Some days I pick up all the channels just fine and other days I have to adjust the antenna every time I switch channels. I do have more channels now and the picture is great, most of the time. I get all my locals, 3 PBS from Arkansas and 2 PBS from Oklahoma.

[eShirl]

2. we lost one CBS channel, but gained another from a different part of the state

and we gained a CW channel that is owned by our new CBS channel

we also kept two channels we had before: PBS and FOX

[MADem]

I lost three. Supposedly if I get a "booster" I will get 'em back.

I'm not getting cable at my seasonal home, so they can pound sand. I'll go to the library and get DVDs and tapes instead!

[alfredo]

31. I went from 5 to 12.

[MADem]

40. If you're in a densely populated area, you can do well. Out in the boonies, sometimes, not so much.

[alfredo]

45. I'm out in the outskirts of town. The stations, except for Ion are east

or west of me, so my Dipole works great with only minor adjustments needed on occasion.

[MADem]

52. How wonderful for you! I will have to come up with some solution! nt

[alfredo]

55. I loved the challenge of the antenna selection and ultimately the building

of an effective antenna.

My first radio was a homemade crystal radio. I loved making and using it.

[davepc]

3. Some elderly relatives i set up boxes for got more channels and much better reception

Then again, they're only 8 miles away from the transmitter towers in Manhattan. I'd imagine if you're further away the worse off you are.

Some stations have already petitioned the FCC to increase their power to regain lost coverage area.

[meegbear]

4. Have you done a channel scan?

Try doing it again and see what you get.

[POAS]

7. Your right, and

Changing the antenna position can also greatly effect reception of digital signals. Much more so than with the old analog signals.

[Smarmie Doofus]

12. I'm connected to the "house", i.e. apartment building, antenna.

Don't have much choice on that score. Also have two sets of rabbit ears. Used in combo with the house antenna they do nothing. When I use them alone ( i.e. after disconnecting the house antenna) I get NO reception at all.

You sound knowledgeable: Somewhere I read that the three stations that I retained were the only stations broadcasting on UHF at the time of the conversion. The four stations I lost broadcast exclusively in VHF.

Does that make any sense?

[POAS]

20. Yes it does make sense

Better get on your building super to upgrade the antenna array. That is what your paying for!

[alfredo]

33. It could be where the antenna is facing. Does it handle UHF and VHF?

[Smarmie Doofus]

36. Good question, not sure I can answer it.

It's on the roof of our coop building and we're not allowed up there. ( It's burglar alarmed)

I never got reception on the UHF channels while connected to the building (outdoor) antenna... in the analog days, so I'm thinking "probably not."

[alfredo]

46. You need a good indoor so you can turn it for better reception.

So far that simple dipole has been superior to the two others I have.

[Smarmie Doofus]

48. What about this unit that Liberal in Texas recommended downthread?

>>>>I found an RCA flat unpowered antenna at Lowe's that seems to work pretty well. It's a bit pricey at $50:>>>>

The picture won't copy. Its a flat sort of thing ... looks kind of like a laptop. He says Lowe's has 'em.

[alfredo]

54. I saw that too. I would check at Amazon to see if they

have a better price.

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1450M-Multi-Directional-Digital-Amplified/dp/B0022NHQ32/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. Many times. With two separate converter boxes.

Always get the same set of stations described in OP.

[POAS]

5. You just need a better antenna....

Your probably in a marginal area for the stations you lost.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Three-plus weeks w/o analog TV checking in.

Yes, but with unexpected consequences.

I do think cable has reaped a windfall with new customers who want uninterrupted television service even if they have to pay for it b/c of the digital "conversion".

OTOH, I don't think formers viewers like me were calculated into the equation. I'm doing all right w/o the option of television. (And no one is more shocked than I am. When I was 10, TV was my god.) What I really don't think was considered with the conversion is the extent of the demographic that would be without television service. All the advertising that wouldn't be seen and the products and services that wouldn't be sold. That's the lifeblood of television. And I think it's a larger segment than being reported if at all.

[Pharlo]

43. I did the same.

Just gave up tv altogether. The hell with it. I live out in the boonies. I have no idea what, if any reception I would get from DTV even if I got the converter box and a new antenna. So, I figured "Why bother?" I don't watch enough television to justify the cost of a dish and cable isn't available out here.

Easy enough right now, the REAL question is how I'll do once the new season of "Frontline" begins. I'm seriously considering getting an air card for the laptop so I can watch it streaming (right now, I'm on dial up).

[no_hypocrisy]

44. I'd sooner stream than lease cable.

[Lagomorph]

8. No, the conversion is a scam to...

....free up more frequencies to lease out to the big corporations.

[Regret My New Name]

60. Freeing up frequencies is not a scam, it's advancement....

Why waste bandwidth because of old technology?

[alfredo]

9. You may need a better antenna. Try this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/alfredo

[Liberal In Texas]

13. Here's another DIY antenna.

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

It's a bit more complicated. I haven't tried it yet, but intend to when I get a little time to work on it.


The OP definitely needs a new better antenna. If one doesn't want to make one, I found an RCA flat unpowered antenna at Lowe's that seems to work pretty well. It's a bit pricey at $50:

There's also apparently a powered version, but I haven't tried that one.

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. I'd pay the 50. I can't make *anything*.

>>>The OP definitely needs a new better antenna. If one doesn't want to make one, I found an RCA flat unpowered antenna at Lowe's that seems to work pretty well. It's a bit pricey at $50:>>>>>

Is installation basically a matter of "plug in"?

I can get to a Lowe's.

[Liberal In Texas]

19. Yep, just screw it in to the antenna jack on your converter box

and then fiddle with where in the room it seems to work best.

It may take several "scans" of the channels before you get all the ones available. To me, this is the most annoying thing about the conversion. All that scanning.

[alfredo]

30. I built one like that, but without the reflector.

The folded Dipole works best for me.

[Arkansas Granny]

37. That looks like the antenna I bought. Some days it will bring in all the channels

and other days I have to reposition pretty frequently when I change channels.

[PVnRT]

41. That looks like the one I have

It comes with a power cord for a signal booster. The great thing about the flat ones is that you can put them just about anywhere, including hanging them on the wall.

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. Good god. And they call this "progress".

Can I just borrow YOU?

Seriously.. I already have a Radio Shack converter box and two indoor RS antennae. Plus I'm fresh out of bamboo poles. (I KNEW I forgot something at the quickie mart yesterday!)

Thanks, really. I think this sort of project is a little over my head.

[alfredo]

28. It doesn't need to be bamboo. You can get a section of PVC. Duct tape

will work to hold it onto the pipe. You can just lay the antenna on the ground behind your TV. This design was given to me by the tech guy at a local Fox channel.


RCA makes a good indoor antenna, and it is cheap.

Here's a good article on HDTV

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10264157-94.html

This was my first Antenna, but being a tinkerer I have since made two new ones including the simple folding Dipole in my previous post.


Here's one similar to another I made. My wife hates that one. I don't know why :)

[Stevenmarc]

10. I live in NYC and didn't lose any stations

I do have cable but I have 1 TV that isn't hooked up and has all the stations I had pre-conversion, you might want to take a stroll to Radio Shack and get a better antenna.

[dipsydoodle]

15. Is the conversion thing a scam to make everyone buy cable ?

Certainly not the case in the UK where cable and satellite compete heavily against ech other. Don't you have satellite too ?

Given the choice I'd have the Skatelites anyway ...lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsK_keLCqN4&feature=related

I found this which seems to give some answers / excuses ? :

One of the reasons is because of cell phones. What does one have to do with the other? They use the same airwaves as analog, along with Wi-Fi and your blue tooth. There isn't any more, what's referred to as, broadcast space. But digital can put out more information in less space.

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=51880

[mwooldri]

68. Uk is a whole different story. IMO it's transition done right.

It's not a whole country switch-over like here in the US. UK is doing it bit by bit - and there's already a great incentive to switch to digital: there's only 5 main analog stations, and lots of the UK don't even get the 5th one. Therefore going to Freeview (the digital terrestrial TV system) is attractive as you go from 4-5 channels to 24+ channels. The problem with Freeview is that in the areas where analog is still broadcast the digital signal has to be turned down to prevent interference. When the analog signals get turned off the power is increased, plus all the translator stations get converted to receive a basic (ie. not all the channels) DTV service. However one good thing about the UK vs US is that *all* available channels are broadcast from the same transmission location (mast sharing) and a good enough outdoor antenna aimed in the right direction will bring in (in most cases) all that Freeview has to offer.

Cable doesn't have that much penetration (pretty much main urban areas only and even then some are missed) either. So it's a battle between Freeview, Sky (pay satellite TV), Freesat (free satellite TV) and Virgin Media (cable). Virgin is a good deal if you can get it; *very* high speed broadband, cheap phone service and if you take the broadband or the phone the basic cable TV comes free.

[mockmonkey]

18. Plus...

They say you should re-scan, re-scan, re-scan. bleech!

[cornermouse]

21. Apparently I live on the fringe of several tv stations.

TV has become unreliable. We went out and bought the correct antenna and box, the newer digital set doesn't work any better either. Frequent freezing/pixilating/no signal. When they first turned it on, I got Oklahoma and Arkansas but apparently they "adjusted" their signals and I lost those. The closest station which I depended on during dangerous weather has the worse reception. The last time we had dangerous weather come through, the station signal went elsewhere and we were left on our own. Satellite won't solve the problem.

I hate dtv.

[Fumesucker]

22. There are a great many TV shows you can watch online..

If you have some form of broadband.

I don't have my list of URLs on this computer but I like Fancast and there are a ton of others.

http://www.fancast.com/

You can buy an adapter to hook just about any computer to just about any TV for less than $50 on ebay, a lot of newer TVs don't even need an adapter, they will hook straight to a VGA port.

[Buns_of_Fire]

58. ...and there's also Hulu.com

http://www.hulu.com/

As the recent recipient of a gift of broadband, I think I'm about to O.D. on old Alfred Hitchcock episodes.

(Who needs the boob tube when you have a boob monitor?)

[Fumesucker]

61. Yep, there are a lot of the old shows online..

I watched the very first episode of Lost In Space, I had never seen it before and it was really a lot different than I had imagined.

Have Gun Will Travel, The Rifleman, My Favorite Martian, Branded, Science Fiction Theater, Wanted Dead or Alive and a bunch of others I have watched.

[heppcatt]

23. The digital signal isnt as strong as analog

Sad but true.
It is almost like you need cable anymore.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. If so, it hasn't worked

I haven't turned on the set since early June. Haven't missed it, either. I get everything online nowadays.

[KharmaTrain]

25. The FCC Screwed Up...

To answer your first part...YES...the major channels would prefer you watch off of cable or satellite as they get a "carriage fee" from cable companies for the number of people who subscribe.

I did a trade-off here...lost the local ABC HD station but was able to get CBS (which I wasn't able to get before). Digital TV stations operate on about 1/10th of analog...and in some cases is trying to get away with less. The signals are more directional and you need a solid signal to get it to "lock". If you were getting snow on the analog, good chance you're not getting the digital.

A couple of solutions...first...check out www.antennaweb.com...a site that will show you a wide selection of antennas and amplifiers you could hook up (costing around $50) to get more signals. It also will show you where to point your antenna to get the best reception.

The FCC has been getting a lot of complaints from viewers and broadcasters about poor signal quality. They've already begun to allow stations to boost their power.

[mwooldri]

69. yes FCC did mess up on power levels...

... primarily for the VHF stations. Our local Fox affiliate (bad affiliation, great station btw) had a dramatic reduction in coverage area when they flash cut from analog 8 to digital 8 on conversion day. They got permission from the FCC to fire up their pre-transition UHF transmitter until the bugs can be worked out on digital 8.

[Statistical]

26. Long term you may want to think about an attic install.

Step 1) Goto tvfool and get station info based on your address (use full address for best/accurate results)
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Step 2) Select "post transition only digital" Determine the distance, strength, and azmith of stations you want.
Power NM(db) is a good indication of the signal strength at your location. A good antenna will add about 10 gain so you can boost the numbers by 10 IF you buy a good antenna.

In attic subtract about 20 (i.e. you need 40+ for reliable signal).
With rabbit ears subtract 40.

So say a station is NM 37 + 10 (antenna) - 20 (in attic = 27 which is enough for rock solid signal.


Step 3) Check the "real channel" = actual frequency of the channels you need. 7-13 is VHF HI, 14-51 is UHF.

Step 4) Now that you know which stations you will be aiming for write down all the azmiths of stations you likely can receive.
Are they close? (less than 60 deg apart?) If so a directional antenna works the best.
Are they widely desperate? >60 deg apart? If so an omni directional antenna works the best.

Now directional antennas have higher gain so it may be better to lose one station on the fringe in exchange for rock solid signal from the others.

I recommend this site for buying antennas:
http://www.solidsignal.com

Most of the antennas sold at Lowes or Best Buy are hyped junk. This place sells real antennas.
Except to spend $50 for a medium sized antenna plus another $10 or so for mounting hardware.
Coax cable from attic to your TV will be $15 - $30 more (depending on length).

Now it isn't cheap... up to $100 but in the attic the antenna will last a lifetime and it will never need adjusting. Rain or shine it will receive HD quality signal that rivals the best on digital cable for free.

BTW: Be sure to aim the antenna. buy a $2 compass from amazon.com if you don't have one. Well aimed antenna will boost signal gain by 5-10 db which is difference between flaky and rock solid. Also the antenna should be aimed upward slightly 5-10deg or so above the horizon.

[mwooldri]

67. Agreed almost totally.

If you can do outdoor, do outdoor. Outdoor antennas really work the best. Attic is good because there's this large unused space that you can use to place a bulky antenna that you definitely do NOT want in your living room - but outdoor is 1st choice, attic 2nd, indoor a poor 3rd. If you're in an apartment and you have some area outside then you can put an outdoor antenna in this area.

The required antenna will differ depending on location and the stations you want to receive. Outdoor antennas may or may not need adjusting; if your situation absolutely requires adjustment then either a multi-antenna installation is required (preferred) or a good directional combination antenna with a rotor (advantages: less hardware. disadvantages: different TVs can't watch stations from different directions, and rotors being mechanical break down).

I too recommend solidsignal.com but if you do require to go somewhere to purchase, these places do exist! I got my antenna from Dow Electronics, who are basically a wholesale business - but are open to the public - not available online, have to go to the store (they do have a website dowelectronics.com though). They're not that big and basically are down here in the southeast in a few key cities. You could also call/email your local TV station and ask to speak to someone in engineering and ask them if they know of any reputable antenna dealers in your area - since they do field questions from the public about reception of their station and are usually very knowledgeable about what is needed to get their station reliably.

Another good place if you have questions is the AV Science Forum - www.avsforum.com and check out their section for Local HDTV Info and Reception. Very knowledgeable guys hang out here, including TV station engineers.

[Vinnie From Indy]

27. I get crappy reception w/digital

I recently got a converter box. I am not impressed. Many stations freeze and cut out. It also seems like I get a four or five right wing religious channels now.

I gave up cable years ago and have not missed it at all.

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. See reply number 29 re. "rw religious channels."

Am I beginning to see a pattern here?

(DUers in Indy are few and far between, I'm thinking. My sister ... she's RW and religious; but bright and a good person... lives there. I've been to Indy many times.)

Ditto cable: gave it up years ago. Only miss the History Channel... and not that much, really.

[peekaloo]

29. regained CBS for three days and it vanished again.

but I have 6 new religious channels :eyes: and two sets of Ion (good for Boston Legal and M*A*S*H reruns).

[alfredo]

34. ION is mostly religious weirdness. I can get it but I'd have to adjust

my antenna in such a way that I would lose other stations.

[peekaloo]

38. I get 4 channels (well 8) of Ion one of which is a creepy "spiritual" channel.

There's also a channel for kids and some funky third channel which alternates between couples reality shows and a QVC ripoff. I think they used to be PAX, so I was surprised to see them running 'BL'. :-) Same problem here with the antenna positioning.

[alfredo]

47. I like that I get the major channels plus three extra PBS channels.

NBC
CBS 1 -2 -3
ABC 1 -2 -3
Ket 1 -2 -3 Ky

Fox

and Ion 1 -2 -3 if the conditions are right and if I change the position of my antenna.

[alfredo]

57. I think that is Qube. That's for dopers who can't handle Teletubbies.

[Sebastian Doyle]

65. First time I ever watched the ION/PAX network, I thought I had gone back in time

It looked just like Pat Robertson's old "CBN Cable" channel from the 80's. Serving up reruns and religion.

Of course Pat's channel is still around, and is still the flagship station of the 700 Club, they just call it "ABC Family Channel" now. Though it was "Fox Family Channel" for a while (and more evidence that Murdoch and ABC are playing for the same team)

[mwooldri]

63. What kind of antenna do you have?

If it's an indoor one (and especially if not amplified) then your CBS can be received reliably with a better antenna. I have stations that come and go on an indoor antenna; with the outdoor antenna I get a better signal - a better quality one and higher strength.

[peekaloo]

71. amplified indoor.

It's a screwy deal with that station, they have/had 2 towers (1 analog/1 digital) both of which were located 40 miles apart from their broadcast origin which is in Tampa. (hope that sentence make sense) The analog broadcast was no great shakes either. :-(

Thanks.

:hi:

[a la izquierda]

39. I would love to pick up two new Spanish channels.

But I speak, read and write the language. My husband would appreciate the additional soccer programming that comes with it. Plus, he loves hearing me rapid fire translate for him. :)

[MuseRider]

42. It is pretty worthless.

We have satellite, no cable available here. The satellite goes out during storms, we live in Kansas and it is important to have weather on during many of the storms. We got the converter just so we could have local weather at those times. It goes out as well. When we need it most we now have nothing. What a mess.

We did just the other day get line of site (I don't know what it is called) wireless for our computers. So far they stay on in a storm so thankfully we should be able to find out what is happening when it gets bad.

[Common Sense Party]

49. I lost all of them.

I got the stupid converter, but the antenna no longer pulls in any signal consistently. Now I have a monitor to watch DVDs.

So now I have to wait a day to watch Conan online.

[omega minimo]

50. No, it's a scam that gave away the publicly owned airwaves to megacorpmedia.

[lindisfarne]

51. I lost .5 channels (had 1.5 before). The .5 was very snowy but I could get news. Now I get PBS but

nothing else. Converter box does nothing (PBS not full-power station so not allowed to go digital).

[fizzgig]

53. i lost the three big networks with the conversion

i can't get abc, cbs or nbc out of denver any more, but occasionally the cbs out of cheyenne will come through.

however, lucky me, i got a half dozen new jesus channels with the conversion :eyes: thank the gods i did get pbs after the conversion, though.

[wordpix]

56. I HAVE cable (basic) and still lost stations and told I need a box to restore them

What a big bunch of money-making BS. :puke:

[queenjane]

59. UNC-TV in NC = Giant Screw Up

Before the conversion, I got 3 PBS channels, including my favorite, UNC-NC. After the conversion, nothing. Turns out they put the digital transmitter too low on the tower (the analog transmitter was perched at the top). Plus, the signal was too weak. Now they have to remove the analog transmitter and move the digital one to the top, but this won't be completed until the end of summer. That leaves me with the major networks which fade in and out, 3 FOX channels, countless ION channels with a range of religious weirdness, several Spanish language channels, and a station that shows nothing but hip-hop and rap videos. I managed to finally get a channel for my 81 year old mother to watch her soap operas, but she's still dropping hints about cable. I didn't get a raise this year, so cable isn't in the budget. I'm actually pretty content without TV, shocks the hell out of me. I'm reading more, working out more, and have time for my hobbies. Still, it's another clusterf**k by our government: take something that works great and destroy it, in the name of "progress".

[mwooldri]

64. Sounds like you're in the Triangle area.

Yep, the WUNC-TV transmitter is on a temporary antenna array right now, but at full power. Plus that transmitter had a channel change, from 59 to 25 (the broadcast channel, not the displayed channel on the receiver, which will be 4-1 etc...) Also the majority of the Triangle stations broadcast from about the same area - except UNC. There are signal issues for sure in Raleigh and north of Oxford; UNC-TV have applied for translators.

I'm in East Greensboro. I had on an indoor antenna reliable reception of all the area stations, though UNC-TV was coming in for me from Chapel Hill and not the Triad location (north of Winston-Salem). Come transition day, I lost Fox 8 and UNC-TV started breaking up big time. I went to Dow Electronics in Greensboro, and purchased a Winegard HD8800 8-bay outdoor antenna - good for "extreme fringe" of UHF and will work on channels 7-13 if close enough to the transmitter. I assembled it and I just propped it up on the front deck, aimed at no particular transmitter. Cured the reception issues and get reasonably reliable reception of stations the FCC map program says I shouldn't be getting... but there are stations the FCC say I should get that I don't - but I'm not that interested in the Roanoke, VA stations anyway and the antenna is the wrong way for them. The antenna cost me under $60. I still need to get a mast to attach to the house and I still need to aim the antenna better but for just being propped up on the front deck vs the indoor antenna - miles of difference.

If you're in Time Warner territory they do offer a "broadcast cable" package for about $10/mo (they do in gso at any rate). If you have a new(er) TV with a digital tuner that specifies in the manual that it is good for something called "QAM" or the TV is billed as good for "digital cable" then UNC-NC can be obtained (along with UNC-ED, that's cable-only). If your TV is analog then you will still need a converter box - but the "cheap" converter boxes that are/were sold under the coupon program don't decode the cable signals. The digital-cable to analog boxes are pretty rare, not cheap and it'd almost be worth it to get digital cable from the cable company and take their box.

If you're on an indoor antenna and need outdoor antenna help, then I'm offering...

Mark.

[madville]

62. I went from 4 to 10 channels

I bought a $100 amplified antenna and mounted it at the peak of my roof. I get CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CW, PBS, PBS kids, PBS Knowledge, a 24 hour weather channel, and the CBS affiliate has a second channel that shows movies and old reruns. I'm 45 miles from all the TV stations also so I'm pleased with the results.

[New Dawn]

66. Internet > TV

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. Try FTA satellite

If your not to picky about local affiliates you can get pretty much all the networks with $200 worth of generic satellite equipment - all you need is a 30" or larger satellite dish, a linear LNB and an MPEG2 satellite receiver. Any electronics store in an ethnic (and especially Muslim) part of town will be able to get you setup.

[Smarmie Doofus]

72. That would probably do it. One big hitch:

Apartment buiding, no terrace and co-op rules against mounting the dishes on the window ledges.

But it's a good idea. Started my wheels turning again.

[WI_DEM]

73. It's strange I picked up channels: 2 new PBS stations, a RETRO channel much better than TV Land,

and the CBS and NBC stations give an alternate channel--NBC is basically weather though. But all in all not bad, I'm even considering giving up cable--except for TCM I would.

[otohara]

74. The PBS Stations Are A problem

for me - unless I fuck with the Radio Shack antenna - if it's cloudy outside .... sucks

Which sucks - because that's the TV in my kitchen and I love to watch PBS while cooking. Otherwise I have Dish on all the other tubes.