Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

It's single payer or nothing. Obama veto this Plan.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:07 PM
Original message
It's single payer or nothing. Obama veto this Plan.
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 12:23 PM by denem
No mandates without universal coverage which does not disadvantage the uninsured. No health care that leaves blood sucking Private Insurance parasites in the 'business' For 60 years the health 'Industry' has kept REAL health care out of reach. IT"S TIME to get them OUT of the 'game'. :dunce:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thats what I'm talking about
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. There are more systems than single payer which can affordably provide universal healthcare...
based on progressive funding, which doesn't discriminate, leave people bankrupt, or collect a heavy profit at the expense of someone's wealth or health.

Single-payer is merely the simplest, most centrist position really, that may pose the least logistical problems in implementing. But you should be open minded more than single-payer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. veto what plan? nothing has been passed yet and house and senate will have two seperate bills
to reconcile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. don't bring actual legislative process into this, damn you! you're supposed to be ANGRY!!1!1!!!!
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 12:17 PM by dionysus
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Then we'll get nothing. Brilliant idea.
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I got news for you...
...That's the plan anyway. All the fancy rhetoric is smoke and mirrors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Fancy rhetoric, along with political horse-trading, accomplished Medicare
in the face of huge opposition.

I'm not the complete cynic you seem to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I don't believe that Medicare would happen...
...in the current time and place. There was a different environment then. We were less removed from the Great Depression and the New Deal. Unions were still strong. The insurance business was less powerful and media influence was less pervasive.

A lot can disintegrate in 45 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Actually, in spirit the country is much closer to the Depression than in the 60's.
I think the time is ripe for change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. You're correct that we're closer in some ways...
...but there are far fewer people who remember the harshness of the Depression and what life was like before organized labor and social safety nets. That makes a huge difference.

As far as actualities go, we haven't even gotten close to the depths of the Depression. Don't forget, on the day of FDR's inauguration, one quarter of the land in Mississippi went on the auction block.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Correct, though the talking points for both sides were the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. What about Medicare for All?
Medicare co-exists with for-profit insurance for upgrades and boutique care.

Medicare for All could theoretically do the same thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think private health insurance commodities should go
the way of Harpham Brothers Saddle and Harness Factory. Health care should not be sold at obsene profit and at the expense of quality health care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ok Dennis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. You'll have to be happy
with nothing then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. ... and strike the letter M from alphabet. Uh, dammit. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. So I guess it's nothing then?
I don't know - doesn't work for me.

Bryant
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dumbest, most myopic thread ever

The smiley dunce cap in your OP is appropriate.... for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. FAIL!! Obama can't "veto" a plan.
And single payer gets us nothing; which is far worse than this plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. I would love single payer
I'd love to see it, but I don't think we're going to get it, at least not right away. But we cannot afford to do nothing at all. If the system remains unchanged, I have little doubt that my insurance at work will go up by at least as much if not more than it went up last year and at that point, muy family will join the ranks of the uninsured.


I have a wife and a child that both have medical problems that I cannot afford to take care of on my own, so if something comes along that we can can afford, it might be a bitter pill to swallow, but I have to take it and hope we can gravitate toward single payer down the road.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. If this plan were to pass,...
...which isn't going to happen, you're still going to get screwed by the insurance companies. As long as they are in business, the insurance industry is going to find a way to nail you to the wall aided by the politicians they buy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. if that's true
I guess our only option will be to get a divorce so we can get my daughter on public health care. What a rotten thing to do to the working people in this country. So much for the "sanctity of marriage" :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'd be O.K. with a public option paid for out of general tax revenues.
That's what the U.K. has. But a public option paid for by a new, whopping, 12%-of-gross tax on the uninsured (the people who are already most vulnerable) makes no sense to me. I also think passing the House bill in its current form will be a disaster for the Democratic Party.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. And this is why Moonbeam McCrazypants must never be President...
Him wanting Ron Paul as his VP is another fine reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. I agree, but "fat chance"
Obama likes the insurance companies. He's not a fan of "socialized medicine".

Plus, the insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, and health care industry will drown congress in a tsunami of money, so whatever passes will guarantee them a healthy bottom line, even at the cost of a healthy populace.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. If folks are willing to settle for less
people who are pushing this plan should be truthful.

It is based on a failed health care model, it will not lead to single payer and the weak "public option" with limited access was bought by insurance companies along with a promise to criminalize the uninsured.


Testimony of Quentin Young, M.D., to the House Ways and Means Committee

"...Third, because of this inability to control costs or realize administrative savings, the coverage and benefits that can be offered under the discussion draft will be of the same type currently offered by private carriers, which cause millions of insured Americans to go without needed care due to costs and have led to an epidemic of medical bankruptcies.

Virtually all of the reforms contained in the discussion draft have been tried, and have failed repeatedly. Plans that combined mandates to purchase coverage with Medicaid expansions fell apart in Massachusetts (1988), Oregon (1992), and Washington state (1993); the latest iteration (Massachusetts, 2006) is already stumbling, with uninsurance again rising and costs soaring. Tennessee’s experiment with a massive Medicaid expansion and a public plan option worked — for one year, until rising costs sank it.

...The $1 trillion price tag on the Tri-Committee proposal already threatens to capsize our new President’s flagship initiative. In contrast, single payer avoids these hazardous political waters entirely because it requires no new sources of funding.

In tumultuous economic times, single payer is the only fiscally responsible option. Two-thirds of the American people support it. The majority of physicians are in favor of it, as are the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 39 state labor federations and hundreds of local unions across the country. Millions of Americans are mobilized to struggle for single payer, but your leadership is crucial. I hope this Committee will see fit to provide it."

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/june/testimony_of_quentin.php

The mess of a plan in Mass. that we are modeling our national plan on:

"Yet despite the threat of a $1,068 fine for being uninsured, hundreds of thousands remain uncovered in Massachusetts, and the number of uninsured patients showing up at hospitals and clinics has fallen by only one-third. Moreover, according to surveys one in five state residents (including many with insurance) cannot afford care, and those directly affected by the reform are more likely to say it has hurt than helped them.
High costs and skimpy coverage are in the reform's DNA; private insurers drafted its blueprint, cementing their dominant role. As a result, the plan forfeited the savings on bureaucracy that a single-payer plan could realize--an estimated $7.8 billion annually in Massachusetts alone. The public-plan option that Massachusetts's reform offers to the near-poor hasn't trimmed bureaucracy--a warning that this option, pushed as a compromise at the federal level by erstwhile single-payer supporters, would yield scant savings. Indeed, Massachusetts's reform has actually increased bureaucratic costs; the new insurance exchange (similar to that touted by President Obama and Senate Finance Committee chair Max Baucus) has added 4 percent to insurers' already high overhead. Promised savings through prevention, care management and computerization (also mainstays of Obama's plan) haven't materialized. Consequently, much of the new coverage has come with unaffordable out-of-pocket costs. And cost overruns have drained state funding for care of those who remain uninsured."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090427/himmelstein_woolhandler

Massachusettes just kicked off all subsidized legal immigrants. Sorry no money. I wonder how those folks will pay the $1068.00 fine per year.

This is about millions of new captive customers for the insurance industry. They know with an aging boomer population eligible for medicare and growing support for a single payer type system their business future is not very bright. So they design a system built on a failed model(which failed because of being forced to compete with for profit private insurance) and we criminize those who can't afford it.

They said it themselves:

The industry's real trouble begins in 2011, when 79 million baby boomers begin turning 65. Health insurers stand to lose a huge slice of their commercially insured enrollment (estimated at 162 million to 172 million people) over the next two decades to Medicare, the government-funded health insurance program for seniors.

"The rate of aging far and away exceeds the birth rate," said Sheryl Skolnick, a CRT Capital Group healthcare investment analyst. "That's got to be very scary. . . . This is the biggest fight for survival managed care has ever faced, at least since they went bankrupt in the late '80s."

..."They are interested in 45 million new customers," he said, "but the first thing in everybody's mind is preserving their right to do business in a way that can be profitable and meet shareholder needs."

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/07/business/fi-healthcare7?pg=1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. I concur and we all know what kind of games...
...insurance companies play with policies, using loopholes and insignificant data to refuse coverage after years of gleefully taking the policyholder's money. The "pre-existing condition" ruse is a windfall for them. What would that do to citizens who are required by law to have insurance?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
26. Then we get nothing, and what does that gain anyone?
Except the Republicans, who will be able, with some justice, to blame the failure on Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Actually the insurance companies get nothing
We can move onto putting in place a plan modeled after successful proven plans. There are many.

The insurance companies are well aware some form of universal/single payer system is on the horizon if they don't get this disaster of a hybrid plan passed. The money they are dumping on washington isn't about stopping a public option, it is about weakening it enough to fail, thereby burying once and for all the successful options they know will put them out of business.

Making it illegal not to have insurance is barbaric as long as for profit private insurers, who are only concerned with shareholder profits, are the beneficiaries of that money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. You probably would have opposed the creation of Medicare because it didn't cover people under 65
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. Then we WILL get nothing. Not brilliant. Fuck purity, I want people to live.
I want my daughters to at least have access to a subsidized public option. Hell I'd even settle for access to a co-op. Right now my young adult daughters have no insurance at all.

Fuck. Purity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC