Holy crap! Tucker just said that both party "elites" favor illegal immigrants.

[SammyWinstonJack]

He said the Dems favor illegal immigrants because it results in Dem votes and republicans favor illegal immigrants because they like cheap labor! Oh Boy! :yoiks:

[Kikosexy2]

1. Twinkle Toes Tucker...

is still wearing bow-ties?...

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. I think he is tie-less these days.

:rofl:

[Kikosexy2]

11. Dancing with the Stars...

changed his life I guess...maybe he's getting laid more...perish the thought...

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. ewww!

:evilgrin:

[NormanYorkstein]

2. first thing that bow-tied freak ever said that I agree with

Jon Stewart was right about him.

[AllegroRondo]

3. um, Tucker, illegal immigrants CANT VOTE.

so how the heck do they result in votes for Dems?

[Deep13]

9. Their legally present friends and family often can...

...as can those who depend on cheap labor. Also, some D voters automatically equate immigration restrictions with racism or are simply sympathetic because of their plight. Frankly, I think more D politicians condone illegal immigration for the same reasons the Rs do.

[FredScuttle]

19. Please name one Democrat who condones illegal immigration

Just one...any one will do.

[Deep13]

20. Ted Kennedy.

There are others, of course, but I remember him giving a speech about the need to allow illegal aliens who have been here for awhile to become naturalized.

[FredScuttle]

22. And how is that condoning illegal immigration?

Sounds like that's more along the lines of dealing with the aliens who are already here, not a statement approving new illegals from coming over.

[Deep13]

23. He and others want to allow those here illegally to stay.

Seems a stronger condoning than simply saying "I condone illegal immigration."

[FredScuttle]

31. except he didn't say outright "I condone illegal immigration"

so he didn't condone illegal immigration, did he?

What's he's doing (along with a host of other Democrats and some Republicans) is to find a common-sense, rational solution to the issue of the population of illegal immigrants already here in the country. What would you propose....kick 'em all out?

[Deep13]

32. Already addressed the semantics of it.

And yes, I would deport people who are here unlawfully and enforce the law in order to maintain zero population growth. An economy that depends on a constant source of imported cheap labor is not sustainable.

[FredScuttle]

41. Deport approximately 20 million undocumented people?

You and what army?

[Deep13]

43. 12 million.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html
And, no, I was not personally volunteering for the job. I don't own a pickup truck, don't like beer and don't live near the border (unless Lake Erie counts). Besides, not everyone in that group is undocumented. Many just have expired visas or whatever and need to file some forms. I am not suggesting we will get them all or that it can be done by tomorrow. I just mean as they are discovered. I certainly don't think sneaking across the border without a passport is a valid reason to be granted citizenship.

[FredScuttle]

45. "discovered"?

As in, house searches? "Show me your papers" and all that? Brilliant.

[Deep13]

46. You know I don't mean that.

I'm happy to discuss the matter, but I don't see any point just exchanging sarcasms.

[FredScuttle]

47. I don't know what you mean

You're the one who's advocating rounding up 12 million people and showing them to the border with a kick in the ass and fare-thee-well.

[Deep13]

52. I already said I am not advocating that.

We're done.

[piedmont]

34. What then?

So you say awarding "legal" status to illegal immigrants is a common-sense solution to the issue of having a population of illegal immigrants in this country-- fine. But what then? Do we tell the millions of people who plan to illegally immigrate but who haven't done so yet "Don't come here illegally-- we mean it this time." Didn't we already do this under the Reagan administration?

[Deep13]

44. "Didn't we already do this under the Reagan administration?"

Yup. Reagan never met a union-busting tactic he didn't like.

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. Does "condone" mean "not punish"? Close enough for me. n/t

[Booster]

39. Barbara Boxer for another. I wrote her eons ago about the

problem and her answer was we truly need these people for the labor they provide.

[cgrindley]

10. Their legal families can

It is rare that one person, with no ties whatsoever, would move to a foreign nation. Illegal immigrants often have wives, cousins, brothers, sisters, children, friends, neighbors, wider cultural associations, etc. By supporting the rights of undocumented immigrants, politicians will win the support of those who are citizens but who are associated in some way with the issue.

Hell, if I was legally allowed to vote, I'd vote for anyone declaring an amnesty for undocumented immigrants regardless of what party they ran for. The system is broken and needs to be put out of its misery.

[cgrindley]

4. Probably true on both counts

hell, I'm not in an elite and I favor illegal immigration.

PS what the hell does it mean "to favor illegal immigration"?

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. Don't know, he didn't expound on that.

:shrug:

[Deep13]

6. **wham!**

Shit, did he get hammer marks on the new molding? Nope, looks like he hit the nail right on its head.

[wyldwolf]

7. uh... yeah. That has been conventional wisdom for years

[piedmont]

13. And what part of that do you disagree with? nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. I didn't say I disagreed with any part of it. I was just surprised that Tucker admitted that the

repubs liked cheap labor from illegal workers. Okay? *sheesh*

[piedmont]

27. ok,

wasn't clear what you were getting at. I see it now. Thanks.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. No Problem.

:-)

[camero]

14. A broken clock is right twice a day

eom

[CottonBear]

15. BS! Illegal immigrants don't vote because they don't have drivers licenses,

real social security numbers, or other required ID and, besides that, they don't want to be busted by the immigration authorities like they would be if they went down to the voter registrar's office at the county courthouse. They seem to try to be invisible as much as possible.

I live in an area with a rapidly growing Hispanic population and I have never seen any of them at the voting precincts. I live in a Southern state university town which has many international residents (professors and students from all over the world). At the voting precincts I see mostly white and African American citizens in their thirties, the middle aged and older in line for voting. The university students tend not to vote (unfortunately.)

In Georgia, very few Hispanics vote because there are few Hispanic US citizens here. There are many illegals and a good number with green cards.

[gatorboy]

16. Holy Crap!

Soemone actually watches Tucker! :P

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. LOL! He was on MSRNC after idiot boy's speech. I hadn't changed the channel yet.

:yoiks:

[Skidmore]

17. Actually, he's 3/4 of the way correct for a change.

[Sapere aude]

21. How do illegals vote? They have to fill out a voter registration card and get

verified.

How many illegals would bother to vote compared to legals who bother to vote?

I think that no one really has evidence about illegals voting. It is just a right wing meme.

[Sapere aude]

25. If illegals were naturalized they could vote and they would vote to raise the minimum wage

and they would vote for better education and they would vote for health care reform and they would vote for better labor laws and they would vote for child care and they would vote for most things that the rest of us vote for.

If illegals were naturalized we'd have more Dems and the repukes would not be able to steal elections and we would not have the kind of administration we've had for the past 6 years.

We should welcome the illegals into the the ranks of citizens who can vote because their causes are also our causes.

I think it is really a stupid idea to let the corporations divide us like they do. It does not have to be them against us it could be just all of us.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. I guess that is what Tucker meant by the "elite" Dems favoring illegals.

The part that shocked me was when he said that repubs favor illegals because they like cheap labor. I was shocked that he would admit that. :wow: Also his term, "elites" from both parties struck me as odd. :shrug:

[ecstatic]

51. Once naturalized, they too will lose jobs to illegals

The whole point is for corporations to be able to get the cheapest labor possible, without having to worry about enforcing saftey guidelines or even paying their employees a fair wage.

[RB TexLa]

26. I think by "elites" he means non-racists

[piedmont]

30. Excuse me?

I'm a Democrat, I'm not racist, and I do not support illegal immigration. I suppose smearing people you disagree with is fun, but not terribly productive.

[Sapere aude]

33. Most Dems do not support illegal immigration but understand that there are no simple answers to the

problem.

Since you do not support illegal immigration what do you propose we do about it. I've heard these ideas that I think do not make much sense.

Build a fence.
Deport illegals.
Arrest those employing illegals.

[piedmont]

37. Of course there are no simple answers

I'm not getting into a discussion about the feasibility of every proposed "solution." However, you did leave out a big one: help people improve their economic situation in their own countries.
Also, we should promote birth control so that populations don't outstrip their natural and man-made infrastructure. The U.S. would be at nearly 0% population growth except that we're absorbing immigrants from countries that have higher growth rates than they would otherwise be able to maintain.

[LiberalFighter]

35. Someone needs to dispute that

First, illegal immigrants can't legally vote.

Second, I'm not going to vote for a candidate because they come out and say they want illegal immigrants to vote. If anything, I am going to vote against someone that stupid.

Third, with the prevalent Republican hit squads on election day even legal immigrants are not likely to vote with the fear of intimidation.


I do agree that Republicans favor illegal immigration cause they like cheap labor. Where else are they going to get someone to do their gardening, cabana boy work, housekeeping and cooking for practically nothing and allow the wife to be kept as a woman and allow the man to keep a mistress on the side?

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. I think he meant hispanics who sympathize with their illegal? counterparts. Oh hell, who the heck

knows he meant and the sTalking head newsreader didn't ask him to expound on his point, as per usual. :shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

38. Tancredo said that exact same thing on the radio this past weekend.

They're both nearly correct too. Here's why:

Republicans do indeed appreciate the cheap labor. That's a given. (Hell, lots of Democrats like it too)

As far as voting: It's been pointed out that illegals can't vote. That's very true, HOWEVER, the party that portrays themselves as most lenient towards illegal immigration (undocumented workers) is going to reap the benefits of the fastest-growing demographic in America.

[Odin2005]

40. LOL, bow-tie boy finnaly gets it for once.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. Well he might have let the cat out of the bag so too speak without realizing that he did.

:yoiks: Bet that clip won't be replayed anytime soon. :rofl:

[Disturbed]

48. Illegal Immigration

Illegal Immigration

*The following was posted by pat_k.

Controlling our borders isn't really about control; it's about values

"Controlling our borders" means more than erecting barriers or patrolling. Controlling our borders is about making a commitment to act in a manner that is consistent with our values.

When we set employment standards we are expressing our values. Those standards reflect our belief that all human beings have a right to be treated fairly.

As long as we allow ANY workers to be exploited within our borders, we disgrace ourselves. As long as we turn a blind eye to the violations committed by people who enter illegally or remain after their visa expires, we demonstrate hypocrisy.

Guest worker programs have a place, but too often; such programs have been used to give employers a ticket to pay substandard wages and subject workers to unsafe conditions. We cannot tolerate programs that set different standards for "guests."

To be consistent with American values, we need to "just say no" to the exploitation workers -- documented or not. Continuing to permit predatory employers to operate within our borders will only drive more and more of Us and "Them" into poverty.

Controlling our borders with the stroke of a pen

Building a wall takes time. We don't need to wait. We can effectively control immigration with the stroke of a pen by passing legislation that includes two basic elements:
Going after predatory employers.
Offering a path to citizenship for whistleblowers and their families.

Specifically:
Expand the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) to cover every business and individual employer, whether they employ documented or undocumented workers.
Conditions and terms of employment must meet FLSA and safety requirements for any wage earner who meets the criteria that would require reporting under IRS rules (e.g, the IRS threshold this year is $1500 for most of work).
Criminalize predatory employment practices.
Predatory employers who are violating FLSA, violating OSHA standards, and evading taxes must be subject to prosecution and mandatory prison time.
Whistleblower immigration amnesty.
Clear processes for workers to report predatory employers and maintain anonymity throughout the course of investigation. Whistleblowers who are undocumented (whether an individual or a group) are offered a path to citizenship.
Increase resources and create special units as required
Affected agencies would include the Dept of Labor Wage and Hour Division, Dept of Justice, OSHA, IRS, and INS. The Wage and Hour Division is probably the logical agency to oversee the handling of charges against predatory employers, including preliminary investigation, referral to Justice for investigation and prosecution, referral to IRS, and coordination with INS to process undocumented whistleblowers and other undocumented workers.”

Making implicit costs explicit

“The harmful effects of supporting an underground economy are costly to the nation. When we "just say no" to the exploitation workers, some implicit costs will be made explicit. Americans have a choice. We can invest our tax dollars to our common benefit, or bear the costs -- both moral and monetary -- of exploiting other human beings.

If we choose make predatory employers the prime target, we can ensure the survival of vital "underground economy" sectors by providing transitional supports. We can offset increased costs of goods or services to the working class through tax credits. (Should be part of shifting the costs of citizenship from those who benefit the least from our common infrastructure to those who benefit the most.)”

Radically changing the rules of the game

“If predatory employers faced serious penalties, and the undocumented workers they are exploiting benefited from blowing the whistle, we would significantly increase the risk of exploiting workers.

The threat of exposure and prosecution alone will be sufficient for many to revamp their operations. In some sectors, the predators may simply move operations offshore. In others, predators may be forced out of business. As noted above, it may serve the public interest to provide transition assistance or start up assistance for replacement businesses.

Undoubtedly, a significant percent of undocumented workers would continue to evade detection, but employers would be far less likely to exploit them. If the workers are making a fair wage, the "race to the bottom" has a lower limit and the negative effect on wages is reduced.”

We have a right enforce immigration law and deport violators

“There are situations in which our interests are best served by providing an alternative to deportation. Nevertheless, if it does not serve a public interest to provide an alternative we should not hesitate to deport those who violate immigration laws.

We have a right to enforce our immigration laws. When we shift our focus to predatory employers, we are not forfeiting that right.

Offering legal status to whistleblowers serves us in two vital ways -- it deters predatory employers and it gives authorities vital resources "on the ground" who are motivated to expose those who are not deterred.

Targeting predatory employers creates a new class of unemployable undocumented workers If we do not institute a program that offers an opportunity to achieve legal (employable) status to those who are displaced, the deportation and support costs are likely to rise to intolerable levels.

If we decide that minimizing competition for jobs is worth the costs associated with deportation, the number of families who are offered legal status could be limited by entering those who qualify a "lottery" of sorts. It may seem harsh to allow chance to determine who stays and who goes, but deportation must remain the default consequence of breaking our immigration laws.”

First things first

We can't begin to make progress until we impeach Bush and Cheney and purge the new American fascists from our public institutions ((Impeachment First)). Only then can we effectively engage in the messy -- but democratic -- process of dealing with this and other critical problems.

Conclusion

“Our underground economy makes the United States very attractive to people who are struggling to survive in their own countries. We can change the dynamics right now and virtually eliminate the underground economy, and in the process, minimize the incentive to enter this country unlawfully.

Saying no to the exploitation of workers is central to controlling our borders. Radically changing the rules of the game makes other aspects of controlling immigration more manageable, but it does not eliminate the need for them. We still need to do a better job of tracking the foreign nationals who come here to work, study, or visit. We still need to make our border with Mexico as impenetrable as possible, while weighing the costs against the benefits.

We cannot continue to hypocritically turn a blind eye to violations of our immigration laws or tolerate the exploitation of workers within our borders. As is often the case, committing to enacting and enforcing laws that that reflect our values is not just the right thing to do, it ultimately serves the common good.”

Posted by: pat_k

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. ..

:thumbsup:

[blogslut]

49. Tucky sure likes to throw that word "elite" around

Considering he was raised in a wealthy home, I have to wonder who he's referring to when he says it.