Are "senior citizens" the next threat to the US?

[Raven]

This week, New Hampshire Public Radio's Laura Knoy is doing a program called "The Graying of the Granite State" which explores the effects of the state's aging population. Today was the first in the series. Her guests included a demographic specialist and some other folks who deal with growth and economics in NH. I first should disclose that I am 61 and retired. I was somewhat unsettled by this program because the gist of it was that having a lot of seniors in the state was not good. There is too much senior housing, seniors get too many tax breaks and they spend less money. Oh, and they also vote against local school improvements. One of the guests went so far as to suggest that there should be less "senior housing" built. This, they said, was a problem in every state except Utah. Now, my knee jerk reaction to this was...wait a minute, I've paid my dues, I've supported the schools for years with my taxes, supported social security with my taxes, supported my community with my volunteer efforts. Why should I be made to feel like I should go someplace else? The program made me feel very strange and out of the mainstream...and I think I'm far from out of the mainstream.

I would love to have the thoughts of younger people on this as well as folks my age and older.

[mitchtv]

1. Some republic female in MA

complained that we olders were "overhoused" ( Taking up good housing that could be used by families) That's right pay of my mortgage and move into a nursing home so a family can have my home. I'm probably over savings too. Some family could use my money. There are certain Dems here on DU who think seniors are not paying their share because of Calif's prop 13 helps those of us who don't move and resell a lot.

[lapislzi]

2. You raise some good points

You should NOT be made to feel unwelcome in (what I presume is) your home state after many years of being a productive member of society. I daresay you probably still ARE a productive member of society. And even if you weren't, it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Age-ism remains one of those "OK" biases that's seeped into our cultural milieu over the last 15 or 20 years. It's an ugly bias. Many tacitly wish that old(er) people would just go away. Older people aren't considered "pretty." We don't value our elders the way some other societies do.

However, I take issue when seniors vote against school improvements. Taxpayers, seniors included, put me through public school. Taxpayers, seniors included, probably put your kids through public school (no antagonism intended). It is only right that seniors continue paying their fair share to support the next generation. Which brings me to the fundamental unfairness of school and property tax levies. Progressive, income-based (as opposed to the oppressive property-value-based system we have now) school taxation would redistribute the tax load to those who can better afford it, and who are most likely to be putting their own kids through the public school system.

The fact is that where I live (metro NY), seniors can no longer afford their own homes and are forced to move out. If NH wants to get rid of its seniors, it should take a look at NY's property taxation. They'll get rid of those old folks in no time.

[Warpy]

6. Right, ungrateful brats out there don't realize that

80 year old great grandparents might be facing losing everything because their property taxes keep going up and up.

They also need to realize a few other things:

That "overhousing" will probably be the only thing they stand to inherit. Would they prefer grandparents sell in a falling market and then go blow the proceeds on a depreciating trailer and a world cruise? I'm sure that can be arranged.

Consider also that the "overhousing" represents the overbuilding of luxury housing at the expense of affordable housing. I'm sure grandmothers all over the place would adore moving into a nice one bedroom house and letting some as yet unknown family clean those three or four bedrooms every week. Unfortunately, that housing hasn't been built except in the form of RVs and cheap apartments most of us wouldn't let a dog die in, rather than a family member live in.

The resentment over their spending less also needs to be put into proportion. They supported the economy when it meant the survival of the ungrateful brats who are now complaining that they're not spending enough on new toys. If they want to inherit anything, perhaps they need to STFU.

I never had any kids and I've never voted against a school bond measure in my life. I imagine there are a lot of seniors who feel the same way, realizing that ignorance will be much more expensive than decent public education.

Intergenerational warfare is one of the fall back positions for the fascists out there. Class warfare isn't as appealing as it once was since everybody now knows supply side economics don't work, not even for people with obscene wealth, since one unforeseen consequence was the 40% drop in the worth of the dollar.

It's time to stop falling for it, folks.

[sarge43]

11. Thank you, Warpy.

Like you I don't have children, but I've never begrudge any a free education and I am more than willing to pay my share to support the public schools.

As for spending less, well gosh, I have less to spend. Sorry I don't have three cell phones, but I don't need any.

And yes, let's stop fighting with each other. The only ones who will win are the fascists.

[sarge43]

7. Property tax is how NH pays for its schools - the only way.

It has no income or sale tax. As for all the freebies NH seniors get, ???

[Raven]

15. The school problem is divisive. It was in Massachusetts too.

Older people used to gripe about paying for schools they didn't use. I used to try and make the point that good local schools raise everybody's property values. I guess we all have our turf.

[sarge43]

18. Aye up, quickest way to start a fight in NH is mention taxes.

Of course, I use the schools. Without an educated workforce, I'd have zip, probably less than zip. Any senior that talks like that has his or her head in an unseemly place.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. I agree that everyone should pay school taxes but if NY is forcing

seniors out, then seniors need tax relief and it makes sense for them to complain about school taxes in a way. My MIL used to complain about school taxes and never could quite get it that other people without kids in school had paid school taxes when her kids were in school. She was probably right that school taxes and all taxes had gone up a lot, though, and that she was paying a larger precentage in taxes than people who were seniors when she was young and middleaged.

Seniors need to be educated about taxes in general and the unfairness of the whole system before they'll stop complaining about school taxes. Too many look at that as something they shouldn't have to pay because they don't have kids in schools, don't think it through.

The tax burden, as you say, needs to be heaviest on those who have the most. Seniors may have money and property but unless they are super-rich, they may need every dime for medical and nursing home care. Virtually all retired people, and those near it, are afraid of the future, afraid they won't have enough money to live on, will be denied medical treatment, etc. So I think seniors should be taxed at a lower rate unless they are super-rich.


Age-ism is a serious bias and those who hold it should remember that with any luck, they'll be old someday.


Treat your parents well and your children will treat you well. Treat the older generations well and the younger generations will treat your generation well.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. I agree that everyone should pay school taxes but if NY is forcing

seniors out, then seniors need tax relief and it makes sense for them to complain about school taxes in a way. My MIL used to complain about school taxes and never could quite get it that other people without kids in school had paid school taxes when her kids were in school. She was probably right that school taxes and all taxes had gone up a lot, though, and that she was paying a larger precentage in taxes than people who were seniors when she was young and middleaged.

Seniors need to be educated about taxes in general and the unfairness of the whole system before they'll stop complaining about school taxes. Too many look at that as something they shouldn't have to pay because they don't have kids in schools, don't think it through.

The tax burden, as you say, needs to be heaviest on those who have the most. Seniors may have money and property but unless they are super-rich, they may need every dime for medical and nursing home care. Virtually all retired people, and those near it, are afraid of the future, afraid they won't have enough money to live on, will be denied medical treatment, etc. So I think seniors should be taxed at a lower rate unless they are super-rich.


Age-ism is a serious bias and those who hold it should remember that with any luck, they'll be old someday.


Treat your parents well and your children will treat you well. Treat the older generations well and the younger generations will treat your generation well.

[sandnsea]

3. Not where I live

Upscale seniors who spend money on some of the stupidest shit you can imagine, all over the place all the time. Drive up property prices, and consequently the tax base. Pass every school bond because they don't want to be called greedy seniors considering they have more than the worker bees who serve them. Or because they want to keep the yard apes out of their hair. In any event, knowing that we will have a retiree based community for a good 20 years is one of the reasons I'm encouraging my kids to stay here.

[renie408]

8. Hey...you are from where I am from, aren't you?

Cause we have the same thing here. (SC)

[sandnsea]

12. Awaaaay across the country

Oregon, on the coast. But I bet it's the same phenomenon. The economic top 10% retiring to small towns in scenic areas with temperate climates. Some contribute quite a bit through talent and money, others toodle around and spend money, some are sick and create a health care economy (sad but true). A few are just crotchety, but lots of people are crotchety (see me, ha). That's how it is here.

[eleny]

4. I'm not getting that feeling here in Colorado

60 and retired, here.

In recent years they've given home tax relief if you stay in your home for 20 years. I'm scratching my head over why they want us to stay put. But we'll qualify in several years, so we're factoring that in to our decision to stay instead of moving to another house.

Some states want senior citizens and have passed laws to help draw our age range. Maybe a very small state like NH is going to feel a pinch. I'm sorry to hear that.

It seems to me that maybe it would help if the New England states join together in some initiatives to help the region as a whole. Florida with it's high tax rates and home owners insurance are making it prohibitive as a retirement destination for northeastern retirees. States might consider ways of keeping their seniors and our buying power (whatever that may be).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Remember that senior citizen that ran over a bunch of people?

It never would have happened if we had just shipped him off to Mexico.

[ComerPerro]

9. maybe. If we ever purge all the illegal immigrants, some group will be the new scapegoat

might very well be senior citizens.

("They get so many government benifits, and many of them don't even work!!!")

[Raven]

14. Funny, that was one of the comments today and then a woman

called in and said that she had gone back to school and gotten a Masters Degree and couldn't get a job because of her age.

[ComerPerro]

17. scary

[Hangingon]

10. Could not agree with you more

I paid for years - property taxes, social security and income tax. I bought my home and built up my savings. Seniors do spend - travel, hobbies (golf and fishing account for a lot of senior purchases). The younger folks make more money from the start than we did. It is time they got over it.

[kimmerspixelated]

13. The power against those who are against elders

will be in the numbers. Remember all the baby-boomers are near 60 or over now. That's a lot of folks, with a lot more conviction than some of the yungin's I've witnessed.

[Sapere aude]

16. One way to kill off the middle class is to set us against each other.

There is enough for all if we work together. Divide and conquer is the way to grab all the marbles.

[SpiralHawk]

21. Why do republicons hate America's elders?

Why do republicons hate America?