How do we counter pro-insurance hecklers at Democratic town-hall meetings?

[derby378]

Ever since proud2BlibKansan shared her experiences, I've been wondering how we could do this. It'll take a determined, collective effort, but here's some ideas I have:

Organize a small squad before the town-hall meeting. Everyone in the squad should show up at the meeting with a large, hand-held sign promoting health care reform. Poster-board size should be fine, but no smaller.

The squad should immediately take up a position in front of the hecklers once they are identified. Form a chain in front of them. When the hired guns from Big Insurance start trying to shout down the Democratic legislator, everyone on the squad holds up their signs to block the hecklers from view of the audience and anyone with a camera. Respond with a chant of your own, something like "Two, four, six, eight, fix it now before it's too late!" or something like that.

It is important to block the hecklers at all times. When they move, you move. Shield them from the audience, and especially shield them from any media or video bloggers. Deny them their 15 minutes of fame on YouTube.

Prepare to get jostled by the hecklers. Wear durable long-sleeved shirts and blue jeans or something that provides similar coverage. Elbow and knee pads may also come in handy along with some decent gloves. No sandals - you never know when your feet may be "accidentally" trod upon.

Keep the mood in your squad upbeat and positive - this is about reforming health care. Don't engage the hecklers any more than absolutely necessary. Let them shoot the finger at you; it only means you're pissing them off. Don't start a fight with the hecklers - keep it non-violent and let the cops maintain order. If the hecklers somehow start a fight with you, however, make sure you finish it.

Any other thoughts?

[TexasObserver]

1. Disagree. Let them speak, and let our Dem politicians rebut them.

They're disrupting meetings that citizens attend looking for answers. They don't help their cause.

We won't help our cause by sending counter disruptors to chant, taunt and out shout the GOP disruptors. That's out of the Rove/Bush playbook.

[ensho]

2. they won't let the Dems answer back - so that won't work

nt

[TexasObserver]

43. Here's a link to a thread with a sound approach to the problem:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6215857&mesg_id=6215857

That OP in that thread explains in detail the right way to deal with it, a way devoid of the antics some have espoused in this thread.

[Warpy]

5. Excuse me?

These Astroturfers are shutting down all debate or comment by yelling constantly, without a break, shutting everything down. They don't want you or anyone else to be able to speak.

You can't answer these people. You can only eject them or get them arrested.

[TexasObserver]

20. If they won't stop for a response, if they disrupt constantly, law enforcement should remove them.

The topic is whether our side should engage in silly antics designed to out shout the GOP disruptors. That's a bad approach, and that's what I addressed.

[Gold Metal Flake]

9. Wow, you have not seen the videos have you?

They are instructed and trained to shut down all discussion. No discussions take place. No rebuttals can take place. They are there to disrupt and disrupt only and that is what they do. Interesting that you are trying to minimize their impact and shame Democrats who seek to counter them.

[TexasObserver]

18. Of course I've seen them. I simply prefer a more adult approach than you.

All these "strategies" such as chanting, getting in front of them, getting in their faces - these are silly actions that don't do anything but satisfy the need of some of our advocates to express themselves in a loud and emotional manner. That kind of conduct never convinces anyone of anything. It's sheer delusion to believe we gain from such antics.

If we want to move the public, we don't do it by proving we can be as big a jack ass as the GOP disruptors.

[Gold Metal Flake]

24. I did not suggest an "approach" in my post. Nice try.

How adult of you to lodge a false accusation.

Interesting that you would suggest actions that will allow the sane voices to be swamped.

[Ikonoklast]

29. You can't have an 'adult approach' with someone that refuses play by any rules.

Ever try to have a 'discussion' with a person intent on kicking you in the balls? You can use every rational argument trying to dissuade him, but he is still going to kick you in the balls, no matter what.

You cannot reason with people that do not recognize or utilize rational thought. The only thing you can try to do is mitigate their behavior.

[redqueen]

45. Yes you can. It's been done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6217096

[TexasObserver]

48. Thanks for linking a thread which demonstrates being the adult pays dividends.

We have the high ground on this topic, and on these meetings. Getting down in the mud with the jerks the GOP sends will only help them diminish what we're trying to achieve.

Shouting back and forth with the rightwingers can be great fun in the right situation, but not in these town meetings.

The place to have those stand offs is in the streets, when there's no town meeting, just two sides facing off and yelling at each other. I enjoy those. They're fun, and they're a part of being a Democrat who doesn't mind going to the street now and then. But this is not that kind venue. This is a town meeting where many non partisans are there for the taking for our side. Let the jackasses from the rightwing reveal themselves, while we talk solutions.

[Ikonoklast]

55. They were informed beforehand and had a police presence.

Earlier meetings had no such luxury.

The implied threat of the use of force by the police kept those disruptors in line in the meeting in that thread.

I'll repeat, the threat that the law would come down on them using force kept them in line.

They respect force when threatened with it.

If there were no police there, that town hall would have been another shoutfest.

[redqueen]

56. Which I pointed out in post 47. (nt)

[derby378]

31. Nothing demonstrates more maturity than standing against bullies and barbarians

I hear you, but remember that these gibletheads want us to sit down, shut up, and cower under our beds while their corporate masters run roughshod over our nation. This is a struggle for all the marbles. They won in 1994 - we cannot allow that to happen again.

[dhpgetsit]

10. Their entire objective is to deny the rep a chance to get his/her point across.

I say try to shame them for interrupting and being rude. If words don't work they need a spanking.

In fact maybe the signs should say somethng like "Mind your manners" or "Speak in turn".

[derby378]

19. There's a thought...

Maybe a two-sided sign would work better. The side facing the legislator could say Public Option NOW or whatever you like, and the side facing the hecklers could say Wait Your Turn or Civility Is The Rule.

[duhneece]

59. That's what I was thinking nt

[liberalmike27]

51. My Two Cents

I'm sure most of you have seen the thugs at these town hall meetings, purposed not to inform, but to disrupt the meetings. Email campaigns by Dick Army's corporate organized effort, Freedom Works, have bussed people all over the nation, targeting 30 states, to disrupt meetings.

Inflate the numbers, spread out in the hall, jump up at the beginning and disrupt the meeting, early, and often. Try to rattle the speakers, get them off the prepared script. It's all in the emails, promoting the astro-turf (fake grass roots ) campaign.


I think one of the solutions is this--you get these people who have been harassed on the tube. And they should say "I was on the fence, but after seeing this display of thuggery at my meetings, and knowing it was organized by corporate powers, I am fully supporting all health care measures.


There would be nothing that would stop these few thugs who are disrupting sincere efforts to inform our public, more than seeing that it isn't working, and that instead, it is driving the harassed and harangued congressmen and women into voting FOR the bill.


One other thing--If they have any prepared results, get a good, loud sound system, and record the speech beforehand. Try to make the speech, and once you are disrupted, just turn on the recorded speech to play until the end. Then take some questions. If they continue to disrupt, end the session with "I had hoped to have an intelligent and informed meeting." "But I see the childish actions of a few thugs have kept us from doing so." "I hope you see what degree corporations will do to keep Americans from having health care."

Because they are being hired, organized, and shipped in to disrupt the meetings.

People go to those meetings to ask questions, and have them answered, and then evaluate the answers. They don't go to hear a bunch of screaming thugs, disrupt the meeting.


It is just an indication of how desperate these corporations are, to prevent health care from passing.


They might have a few cops come in, and haul the people who are shouting out. Make it clear that people will be removed who are acting disorderly. And remember, that means shouting, as that was all Gates was guilty of.

I kind of wonder what effect a violent episode would have. If someone were to get into an altercation, then the police would have to look a lot harder toward arresting those who were shouting and disorderly.

I was thinking, if you could find the busses outside, and if the tires got flattened, then maybe they couldn't get to their next meeting, it'd be a good thing. Thugs can be out-thugged.

But, all and all, violence and sabotage would probably not be a good thing. But I'd take the odds on a liberal in an argument with one of these ignorant thugs any day, as far as being in an argument.

[Warpy]

3. If there are enough of you, link arms and chivvy them

toward the exit.

The best bet is always to call the cops with a complaint that an organized group is trying to incite a riot, which they are.

Then isolate the gang of loudmouths and make sure the cops know which group they are.

[gristy]

4. I disagree

You should not respond with a chant in support of health care. That simply brings you down to their level and adds to the disruption.

You should face (and surround, when there are enough of you) the disruptors and shout them down. If they are quiet, then you are quiet. If they are disrupting, then you bury them in noise. But the key points are

1) move so that you right in front of the disruptors - there must not be any confusion as to who you are yelling at
2) face and surround the disruptors - do not face the speaker!!
3) overwhelm them with noise

They will get so frustrated that their message can't be heard that they will either leave or take a swing at you. Both of these outcomes would be a good thing.

[Gold Metal Flake]

21. If chanting back is the only recourse...

If there is nothing left to counter the rabid disruptors, I suggest chanting USA USA. It will piss them off, at least, and it will amuse the Democrats and thus keep their spirits up. It also points out that we are fighting for American people and they are fighting for transnational corporations.

[derby378]

22. Interesting points

I advocated not engaging the disruptors because it could provoke them into doing more than heckling, but overwhelming them with noise is always desirable.

[rucky]

25. I think the chant should be "Stooge!" or "Disruptor!"

or something that exposes these astroturfers.

[The Magistrate]

60. Exactly, Sir: Name Them, Tie It To Them, Make Coverage Without the Name Impossible

"Let all the poisons in the mud hatch out...."

[RDANGELO]

6. Hold the meetings on private property.

If the disputers won't leave, call the police.

[TheCoxwain]

7. self delete

[mnhtnbb]

8. I think there needs to be police presence from the outset and

discussion of rules of expected behavior so that it's understood disruption will not be tolerated.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6215857

[Gold Metal Flake]

27. Exactly! The link is excellent.

That post linking to that Daily Kos diary is an excellent source of what to do IF you have any sort of control. Of course, far right Repuke reps will allow any and all disruptors in and allow them to do their thing because they are part of the scam. But, if you have a Dem rep please forward to them that info pronto. Being able to control entrance a little, being on private property, having a strong police presence UP FRONT (if you have to call for cops it's too late) and speaking before the rep as described in that Kos diary will go a long way to let normal folks know what is up and to intimidate the corporate tools.

[Winterblues]

11. I suggest someone show them a direct need for Health Care

Axe handles help them to understand sometimes..

[derby378]

26. Naaah...

I understand where you're coming from, but the only weapons we should use are our minds and our voices. If they act against you, respond accordingly and let the cops take over when they arrive.

[wolfgangmo]

40. Exactly - use the force continuum.

And let the cops know that you used the force continuum when they arrive. They will know what you are talking about.

[T Wolf]

37. A tactic I like (and used against anti-choice terrorists) is to wear track spikes. When they lay

down, simply walk over them.

And what good is an axe handle with no blade attached?

[rocktivity]

12. They want to play rough?

Okay--LET'S PLAY ROUGH!



:rofl:
rocktivity

[noamnety]

30. stop spamming the board with this same post over and over

it's a pain in the ass for me to keep alerting on it. I've run into this identical post probably 7 times just this morning.

If you are that determined to incite violence at a public meeting, you're probably on the wrong forum.

[rocktivity]

32. This is the only kind of "violence" I'm inciting

because it gets results. I guess I've got something NEW to spam now!

:evilgrin:
rocktivity

[noamnety]

36. If you want to spam the board

with suggestions to have sign ins at town halls, go for it.

But it's not fair to skinner to put him in the position of having his board used to host images like yours in the context of "let's deal with protesters by blowing them away with automatic weapons." He doesn't need the hassle of people reporting you to the FBI, or secret service requesting your IP address.

And we don't need the right wing reading this and deciding that grounds for them to bring weapons "in self defense, because look what DU is promoting."

[wolfgangmo]

41. Dude - it's a joke.

Lighten up.

[clarence swinney]

13. Tell them

Turn in SS card
Turn in Medicare card
Stay off our Federal Interstate Highways
Stop Breathing our Federally Cleaned air
Stop Eating our federally cleaned food
Stop using our federally developed Medicines
Stop using our public schools
Stop using our community colleges
Stop working for the lousy dumb Government
Stop calling our 911
Go private--Do your own by yourself
Be independent

[e-mail]

[clarence swinney]

15. copy reagan and bush

tightly controlled groups
no contentious questions
only butt kissers allowed

[NoSheep]

16. Excellent response.

[crickets]

14. Contact event organizers in advance.

Ask that ground rules be clearly set and stated before the meeting, and that anyone disrupting the event be escorted out. Loud protests are allowed, but they must congregate OUTSIDE. No shouting matches necessary.

Tea Baggers FAIL to disrupt Health Care meeting, lessons shared.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6215857

[rucky]

23. It would help to have a sign-in sheet

to try to get on record that the hecklers are not from the town hosting the townhall. I don't think they'd be dumb enough to put down their real names, but even if they put a bogus name, it's easy to verify that - and that's evidence in itself.

[MagickMuffin]

17. Some rather serious considerations

Air horns: only use when necessary

Pepper Spray: just in case you are assaulted


You'll find this interesting since you're in Texas!

The memo above also resembles the talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks for pushing an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the NRCC, has endorsed the strategy, telling the Politico the days of civil town halls are now “over.”

As you can see according to Petey Boy they don't want civility. They are looking at disruptions and they aren't going to be civil. I'm almost certain Petey and Dick head Armey have been in close communiK on how to carry these events off. I wouldn't be surprised if Tom Bugboy DeLay is instructing them as well, since we all know his part in the Brook Brothers "Riot" act in 2000.


Of course when Code Pink disrupted meetings they had their asses carted out. I think this would be the best solution.

[derby378]

28. Here's where Taliban Pete will be showing up

Wednesday, August 5 (7–8:30 p.m.)
Richardson Civic Center
411 W. Arapaho
Richardson, Texas

Wednesday, August 19 (7-8:30 p.m.)
Irving City Hall
825 W. Irving Blvd.
Irving, Texas

And yes, Pete's my Congressman (for now). I say we mob his town meetings and pepper him with polite questions about health care, public option, campaign contributions, etc.

[mediaman007]

33. Video tape them in the act! Video tape them on the way to the bus.

Video tape the bus back to the pick-up location. Follow them home!

Tape interviews with them. All of it can be used later.

Post the video on the web. Use the tape for election commercials.

Maybe we can set up a site to collect the best of the video tape and put a compilation on the web.

Make it their "macaca" moment

[derby378]

34. If you want to go that route, take lots of photos as well

I tried that in 2004 when a disruptor crashed a Democratic rally in Dallas. I snapped a couple of pictures of him in mid-disruption for intelligence purposes - trying to identify disruptors before they could hit future rallies.

[formercia]

42. Compare images from different meeting to try and identify those who were bussed in.

Some interesting names and associations might pop up like in Florida 2000.

[Joanne98]

35. Showing up is half the battle.

[JVS]

38. Shout them down

[wolfgangmo]

39. I haven't seen the videos but ...

... to borrow a play from my wife's playbook. If most of the protesters are men then get a large group of women to group around them and start asking them quietly about their small penises and how long they've been having problems satisfying women.

If they are like typical men then they will quickly lose control and focus and forget what the hell they were their for in the first place. All it will take will be one idiot guy to take a swipe at one of the ladies and ... well ...

[redqueen]

44. Absolutely not, that would add heat, but no light. This is the best way:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6217096

[derby378]

46. I saw a similar thread on that town hall earlier

There's some really good ideas in how the organizers handled that meeting. I must admit the whole thing began to sound like it was "scripted," but the fact that the Congressman took questions directly from the audience was a big help.

[redqueen]

47. The only reason he could is because of those rules, and the police presence. (nt)

[havocmom]

49. Ask how many are on, or have family on, Medicare?

for starters :evilgrin:

[derby378]

50. You could, but I prefer not to engage the hecklers

If one of them wants to sit down with you at the local coffee shop after the meeting and discuss the health care debate with you, that would be a great question to bring up. Although you could print that on a sign that you display to the hecklers.

[havocmom]

52. meh, if they intend to embarrass others in public, I have no problem giving them same

They count on our predictability. Break out of patterns once in a while. Let them stew on the fact that they don't herd us the way they are herded.

[JHB]

53. Grasp firmly by the collar and belt, then swing out the door in a "heave, ho" motion...

...releasing grip at the high point of the swing.

Something along those lines would do nicely.

[glynnwilcox]

54. a real grass roots movement

I have been trying to start a grass roots movement and asking people to send a band-aid to their members of congress and asking for Health care reform. I need to find some astro turfers to help to get it going. ( :: ) send a band aid to congress and request health care reform now. People above profit.

[Supersedeas]

57. how long till a heckler instigates a violent exchange and Candy Crowley comes to the heckler's aid

[derby378]

58. Hopefully never?

"Can I have 10,000 marbles, please?" :evilgrin: