Iranian diplomat says Bush had holes drilled into his foot to make him talk

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/april/11/muslim_world_news/torture_of_iranian_diplomat_in_baghdad_by_us_forces_confirmed.html

Torture of Iranian diplomat in Baghdad by US forces confirmed

Tehran, April 11(IRNA) Torture of the Iranian diplomat, Jalal Sharafi, by US forces was confirmed based on evidence on Tuesday when he was visited at the hospital by an ICRC representative and the Iraqi ambassador to Tehran.

Sharafi, the second secretary of Iran's embassy in Iraq, was kidnapped in Baghdad on February 4 by agents acting under supervision of the US forces and then released on April 3 following the relentless efforts of Iranian and Iraqi officials.

While in detention of US troops in Baghdad, the diplomat who is currently undergoing medical treatment at a Tehran hospital, was tortured by American troops, according to a report released by the Foreign Ministry's Information and Press Department. snip

Sharafi told Schtoker and the Iraqi ambassador that during the first 15 days of his captivity, he was underwent "heinous tortures" such as drilling holes into his foot.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. OMGWTF nt

[NavyDavy]

2. A torture typically used by our CIA forces so when they release ..

the person they can say there was no bruises or injuries when we released that person....

[MonkeyFunk]

30. How does drilling holes in the feet

not result in bruises or injuries?

[Roland99]

3. hmm...really not so sure I believe this tale.

[Turbineguy]

4. Of course

it put the US is a position of having to say, "we don't torture in that manner."

[librechik]

13. "we prefer waterboarding. No physical scars."

musta let the amateurs handle it.I wonder if there are pictures.

[Lerkfish]

15. yeah, after all, its SOOOOOO hard to believe. WARNING abu ghraib photo

[Roland99]

18. I am very well aware of Abu Ghraib. I did extensive research into that horror.

But this case just strikes me as very odd and, to be honest, rather unbelievable.

[Lerkfish]

20. why?

the red cross verified his injuries.

:shrug:

[Roland99]

21. Because it doesn't make sense. That's why.

If he was tortured, I suspect it was by some rogue Iraqi element (or by the Iranians themselves after he was back in Iran to make it look like the US had done it)

[Lerkfish]

27. I'm still not clear why you have trouble believing the US would torture someone

If anything, recent history would make that MORE likely.
1. Gonzales memo justifying torture
2. Extraordinary renditions of detainees
3. known torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
4. Other released detainees, a canadian and a brit, detailing tales of torture at US hands.

I could go on....but you see my point? Right now, the burden of proof would seem to be on anyone who DOUBTS the US tortures anyone.

You're going to have to explain to me why it "doesn't make sense".

[Roland99]

29. I'm saying this particular case in these methods do not make sense.

Which is why I stated my alternate opinions in the previous post.

[Lerkfish]

31. but what do you have to back that up? I could also say I think aliens did it.

right now, the accusation is that the US did it, and there is evidence of injury, and we have a history of US torture.
:shrug:

there's a difference between saying there might be an alternate explanation, and saying the current explanation "does not make sense". Obviously, the current scenario makes perfect sense.

[Roland99]

43. Well, there is this>>>>>>

Iranian TV shows hospital images of diplomat
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/04/11/3982062-ap.html

Earlier in the week, Sharafi's doctors reported that holes had been drilled into his foot, but the TV images were not clear enough to indicate whether the small, red marks on his foot were indeed holes.

Doctors also reported earlier that he had suffered a broken nose, serious injuries to his back, bleeding in his digestive system, and damage to his ears. None of these injuries has been independently verified, nor were they discernible from the TV footage.

[Lerkfish]

52. thanks. that's a bit better for my understanding of your position.

:toast:

[shadowknows69]

35. perhaps that's exactly why these methods were used

because it just "doesn't make sense" that the US would torture like that. I didn't think we'd stack naked guys in a pyramid either but then I don't read CIA trade magazines so maybe I'm behind the times.

[lectrobyte]

42. It does make sense. The Iranians wanted a trade and got it, and

oopsy, their merchandise was delived with a few holes in it. Maybe we expected not to have to return it so soon, or at all...

[NormanYorkstein]

62. I agree with you

It's all speculation at this point but I could easily see some sort of fakery going on - maybe the US wants to put out this hideous story, then discredit it, to cover some other story about to come out. When Bush does torture like you said it's "no marks".

Then again it could very well be true, look at everything that's happened so far. The dogs at Abu Ghraib sure left marks.

I'm just going to withhold judgment until more facts come out.

[Leopolds Ghost]

69. SOme rogue element?

Excuse me while I :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Perhaps you mean the leader of the death squads, al-Hakim?



Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/waronterror/

Or one of the Saddamists we tried to put in power in 2003?

Like the "rogue elements" we put in control of Fallujah for instance?

Or rogue elements of Jundollah that slipped across the border...

Or rogue elements of "Al Qaeda in Iraq" that we DELIBERATELY
allowed into the country (we stood aside and let them escape
when we had Zarqawi's base in Iraqi Kurdistan surrounded by
US Special Forces troops!! We have the Bush administration
ON RECORD saying "let them escape into Baghdad, we need proof
that Saddam supports the terra-ists")

Not to mention other rogue elements out there...

[UnyieldingHierophant]

56. Come on!...that guy obviously fell down the stairs while shaving.*

[KansDem]

61. Nah...he was merely subjected to a fraternity-like hazing...

...of pranksters simply blowing off steam.

:sarcasm:

[malaise]

59. ICRC is the

International Red Cross.

[Selatius]

60. You're telling me you don't believe the Int'l Committee of the Red Cross? (ICRC) n/t

[Roland99]

64. See post #43.

[magellan]

5. It'd be nice to have independent verification

OTOH and most sadly, knowing what we've done to countless others, it would not surprise me in the least if this were true.

[azurnoir]

9. I t6hought the ICRC

(international red cross committee) was independent.

[Roland99]

22. All that article says is the ICRC saw the wounds. Were they able to examine them?

And are there other sources to confirm the ICRC saw this or do we just have "Muslim News" to thank?

[High Plains]

50. I don't know. What does "Christian News" have to say?

[magellan]

24. Oh sorry, not awake yet. I took ICRC to mean the Iranian Council.

What more can be said about where Bush** has taken us when Iran treats its captives better than we do? It's infuriating and contemptible but sadly no surprise.

[LSK]

33. BBC story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6544055.stm

[Benhurst]

6. Say it ain't so, Dubya!

[azurnoir]

10. Betting you will not have to ask

that one twice. Does not mean it is untrue unfortunately

[Benhurst]

25. I can't believe my president would lie to me ...

AGAIN!

[dogday]

7. So did they get that from the series 24 or did the series

steal it from the WH playbook? very interesting.....

Sick bunch of people....

[whistle]

8. Was this method of interrogation taken right from the Grand Inquisitor Handbook?

[librechik]

11. Uhoh--Jr has to glass Iran for that outburst.

nobody talks out of turn in HIS empire.

[City Lights]

12. So "24" let the cat out of the bag, which explains why the feds asked

them to tone it down. Shhhhh....don't expose our dirty secrets.

[hang a left]

14. I have absolutely no doubt that these types of torture occur,

Is it not sad that I have to question the source of this report. What has happened to the other four captives that were taken at the same time?? I don't doubt the veracity of his claims at all, not at all. However, we will never really know the truth. That in and of itself is very sad.

[bdamomma]

16. we have got to stop this, we are the new nazis.

[Hubert Flottz]

17. BushCo was just looking for oil!

The GOPers will drill anywhere! Anytime! Anyone!

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

19. Oh God, that's terrible!

[Hubert Flottz]

23. The GOP is terrible.

They operate like the Nazis did!

And America will pay for it yet!

[Leopolds Ghost]

72. In The Bush Administration, we do indeed Drill anywhere at anytime to anyone.

And no one can stop us, Earth creature!

http://www.transbuddha.com/index.php/buddha/comments/1846/

Having run out of nations, Bush looks to piss off the Moon:
Quoting unidentified Bush administration sources, two publications
have reported that the president wants Americans to return to the moon
after an absence of three decades, and perhaps establish a base.

While I’m excited about returning to the moon, there’s no word
on how Bush hopes to deal with the awesome technology of these fellows:



Evidence of Drilling? Look no further:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Would the well known humanitarians of the CIA do something like that?

:sarcasm:

[LSK]

28. why isnt this on the greatest??? K&R

[orleans]

32. holes in the foot? he got lucky--bush used to put firecrackers up the butts

of frogs when he was a kid

(a regular serial killer trait of torturing small animals)

[NNN0LHI]

34. My opinion of this is I don't know if it is true and that is bad enough

Common sense would tell me that if Bush was planning on releasing this guy he would have never had any marks put on him.

But then there are those troublesome 15 British sailors we got back right after this fellow was released. I don't think Bush ever had any plans of releasing this man.

I think he was being fitted for a noose before Iran took the Brits.

Don

[LSK]

36. the pattern fits

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x625905

[daninthemoon]

37. If he is that high ranking a diplomat, wouldn't the CIA have killed

him to cover this up? Not saying this might not be true, we know these tortures are happening, but a diplomat? They would have destroyed the evidence.

[NNN0LHI]

39. Iran took the 15 British sailors after we took this guy

We gave this guy back to Iran the day before the 15 Brits were released.

Don

[RandomKoolzip]

38. Bush did it himself?!

THAT PART I don't believe.

[lectrobyte]

40. he's pretty good with a chainsaw from what I here, and I'm sure he

watched Scarface a few times in the 80's before he got off the blow... And didn't Bush ask for someone's head to be brought to him, literally?

[Morgana LaFey]

66. It's not a joke that he blew up frogs by stuffing firecrackers into

their mouths and tossing them into the air as a kid. Or that as an adult who could have saved the completely rehabilitated Carla Faye Tucker from execution on Death Row but that he didn't, mocking her instead in a way that gave the rightwinger Tucker Carlson pause.

The man is a sociopath. He LIKES killing, death and torture. Don't make light of it.

[lectrobyte]

67. Sorry to sound flip. I lived in TX during a lot of his reign, including the

KFT "what's she gonna say -- don't kill me" episode.

[femmedem]

41. Speechless. K&R. n/t

[FormerDem06]

44. Iran can play people like a cheap drum

A report by his physician confirmed that during medical examinations cases of serious injuries were clearly visible on the diplomat's body including holes caused by a drill, fractures in his nose and neck, deep wounds on his back, bleeding of his digestive system and his perforated eardrum.

Sharafi told Schtoker and the Iraqi ambassador that during the first 15 days of his captivity, he was underwent "heinous tortures" such as drilling holes into his foot.


=========================================================================

There is no statement by Schtoker or anyone else from ICRC on this subject. This was a report by "his physician". I'll wait for the report from the ICRC before I pass judgement. I doubt SERIOUSLY that our guys are allowed to do ANYTHING wrong after Abu-Ghirab (sp?).

It would make absolutely no sense at all.

[Oilwellian]

48. Please tell me....

when does the Bush crime family ever make sense?

[FormerDem06]

51. To be fair, never

But I find it interesting that he wasn't examined until he returned to Iran, and was never seen in Iraq according to the BBC article. So the things the IRANIANS could have done to him from the time they picked him up until he saw the ICRC guy saw him wouldn't surprise me one bit.

They know they are winning the propaganda war while they continue to beat women and hang homosexuals from cranes as examples to all.

I don't trust them any further than I can throw them, and that isn't far.

[Usrename]

53. That's an odd opinion.

We KNOW that these particular Iranians were victims of extraordinary rendition at the hands of our CIA!!!!

And you still believe that OUR guys are not allowed to do ANYTHING wrong??

Just what would would they have to do for you to think it was wrong, if illegally disappearing people is all okie dokie with you?

[FormerDem06]

54. We DONT KNOW that these particular Iranians were hurt at the hands of the CIA

We KNOW that these particular Iranians were victims of extraordinary rendition at the hands of our CIA!!!!
====================================================

How so? According to the BBC report, this one guys wasn't seen by the Red Cross until he was back in the hands of the Iranians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6544055.stm

snip
====================================================
Mr Sharafi, second secretary at the Iranian embassy in Baghdad, says he was kidnapped by Iraqi agents operating under the supervision of the CIA.
====================================================

so now our CIA guys go around telling people what organization they are with? That crap sure does stink to me.

snip

=========================================================
The ICRC's Mr Stoeker said he had been happy to meet Mr Sharafi in hospital because his organisation had been unable to find him in Iraq.

He confirmed he saw wounds on Mr Sharafi's feet, legs, back and nose but, not being a doctor, he was unable to say if they were the result of torture and if so, who inflicted them.

"The United States had nothing to do with Mr Sharafi's detention and we welcome his return to Iran," said Gordon Johndroe, a White House spokesman, last week.

He dismissed the claims as "just the latest theatrics of a government trying to deflect attention away from its own unacceptable actions".

=========================================================

So, as part of the PR game the Iranians like to play, could they have not hurt this man for PR purposes? It would make sense to me.

[Usrename]

63. I imagine a lot of things are possible with these black ops types.

How do we know what happened to them?

How do we know these guys were disappeared by the United States?

Is that really the question you are asking?

============================================================================================

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37142

Fate of Five Detained Iranians Unknown
Khody Akhavi

>
The troops took office files and computers, ostensibly to find evidence regarding the alleged role of Iranian agents in anti-coalition attacks and sectarian violence in Iraq. One diplomat was released, but the other five men remain in U.S. custody and have not been formally charged with a crime.

"They have disappeared. I don't know if they've gone into the enemy combatant system," said Gary Sick, an Iran expert at Columbia University who served in the White House under former President Jimmy Carter. "Nobody on the outside knows."

A spokesman for the Multinational Forces Iraq (MFI), Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, told IPS this week from his office in Baghdad, "They are still in 'coalition detention' in accordance with the U.N. Security Council Resolution 1546, 1637 and 1723." He provided no further information regarding their status or treatment.

>

"The Iranians who are being held as 'security detainees' are not being charged with anything, and so are being held unlawfully," he told IPS.

==================================================================================================

If these men were not illegally detained, then the International Red Cross would have been allowed access to them. You yourself know (it is in your own post) that the Red Cross has been denied access to these men while they are in U.S. custody.

Just what is an illegal kidnapping in your opinion? What proof is needed that these folks do follow any rules. Is it just that the holes in the feet seems somehow "over the line" to you, but all the other illegal stuff is either ok or it did not happen?

I just don't understand why you would think these spooks have stopped with the torture. All of the evidence that I see is to the contrary.

[Matariki]

71. isn't kidnapping DIPLOMATS in and of tself very serious?

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I'm not sure I believe this, but the fact that I'm even considering the possibility is sad

There was a time when people could read these stories and not believe it was possible for the United States to do such a thing.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

46. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but

i wouldn't be surprised if it were just a ploy by Tehran, either.

[otherlander]

47. I hate my government.

I hate my government so fucking much.

[Forkboy]

55. It seems wise to me to hate every goverment.

Just to be on the safe side. :)

[HuffleClaw]

49. maybe they were just treating a plantars wart?

or maybe they DID torture the guy? they've been known to mistreat people before, once or twice.

[Disturbed]

57. Whether we believe that this man was tortured or not

is not relevant. Most Iranians and others in the ME will believe that he was. He should never have been allowed to spend one day in captivity. He is a Diplomat. If he was suspected of anything he should have been deported back to Iran immediately. If the Iranians had done the same to an American Diplomat there would have been a great uproar in the US Govt. and America.

[spanone]

58. Did Alberto Gonzales personally man the Black & Decker??

America is America no longer thanks to junior and his band of criminals.

[allemand]

65. "Sharafi showed reporters nine partially healed holes in his ankle and foot"

Sitting in a wheelchair and speaking in a weak voice, Sharafi showed reporters nine partially healed holes in his ankle and foot he said were caused by a drill. Shiite militiamen - some connected to Iraqi security forces - have been known to torture captives with drills.

``They tied my feet and hands and lashed my soles hundreds of times with cables and kicked and punched me,'' said Sharafi, who also showed traces of slash marks on his back. ``They performed mock executions while my eyes were blindfolded and my hands and feet were bound.'' He said the drill torture occurred early in his captivity, and beatings took place throughout. (...)

Peter G. Stocker, an official from the International Committee of the Red Cross who examined Sharafi on Wednesday, told The Associated Press his wounds ``happened during his detention.'' Stocker could not say who caused them.

Sharafi said he was questioned several times by an American who told him ``he was in charge of my case and was in direct contact with the American Embassy.''

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6550207,00.html

[NNN0LHI]

68. Sounds like someone was working on him pretty good n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

73. Rogue elements

Wouldn't you know.

[Matariki]

70. Aren't there international laws against detaining diplomats?

much less kidnapping them and possibly torturing them.

really, if true, this is horrendously disgusting. no, worse than that. it's a very shameful time for America.