The Family and other forms of fundamentalism

[nadinbrzezinski]

So I have been readying this book, and to say that we should be scared is besides the point. But I was going over the history and the first revival. Edwards had an idea of a very personal, almost animistic God. This incidentally has not changed. But, I am readying this and suddenly I got an epiphany. We need to start speaking of fundamentalism on not just the US, but world wide. You see the same kind of animistic religion rose in another area of the world, separated by an ocean, and culture. While Edwards was creating this wonderful animistic religion, where god is every where, and reveals itself in a very personal manner to the chosen, the Chasidic movement was rising in Poland and Russia. Read on it, it has many similar elements.

It struck me. Our fundamentalism, whether it is Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, shares those traits. Take out the name of the god or the day of the week people pray on. Add to this list Hinduism, which is also a very personal experience, with a very personal god that reveals itself in acts. Though Hindu Fundamentalism (as well as Shinto) come from different places. Fact is all of them share this. So in order to fight this, to a point scourge, we need to understand... they have a common origin and common elements.

This is about the chosen, and the chosen speak to god in personal ways. Granted, the Hasidic movement was a reaction to the powerful but Edward's First Revival was also a reaction to the Elites. It was later that our fundamentalist essentially split between the faith of the rich (Abram Vedere, and now Mr. Coe), and the religion of the masses, Oral Roberts and the rest of the gang.

Oh and add to our list, Al Qaida... yes, they are fellow travelers and a reaction to the modernity of secularism. Oh and from the little i have read, it also shares that animistic element, as well as the Chosen idea.

Suddenly our range went father afield, huh? Oh and this puts a whole new spin on different events, especially over the last fifty years. You all have been alluding to the powers that be, guess what Abram Vedere and now his successor Mr. Coe, are as close as you will get to the PTB in real life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. kick due to database....

:-)

[Kievan Rus]

2. The American right has secular fundies, too

Such as the uber-rich whose faith in a no-holds barred, unrestrained form of capitalism is just as irrational as some of the beliefs held by some of the more extreme fundamentalists in America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. That is the Family... and its theology of the chosen are given power

and wealth. Given how far the Family has penetrated all power strata... you can count on your very wealthy being at least part of the organization in the outer fringes. Though there is a chance they don't even know it.

By the way, guess who used the terms NEW WORLD ORDER first? No, not George Bush, Abram Vedere.

[Kievan Rus]

4. Very true

The Family is just the Reaganomics, uber-capitalist mindset draped in the sacred cloth of Christian religious faith.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. It goes farther back than Reagan. In fact

I would not be too shocked that Ronald Wilson Reagan was a disciple. The philosophy in modern form goes to the 1930s, in fact Vedere formed this organization to fight the New Deal a year after the failed coup. Coincidence? I don't believe in them.

At it's crudest form, it goes back to Calvin.

[snake in the grass]

9. You know, that whole "chosen" thing has one problem.

I don't see them stumbling over their dicks to support Obama as a chosen one. People like Kucinich are ridiculed, Sanders wants a Soviet Union, Wexler is a gasbag. Only those who pursue their theocratic policies are chosen, the others are satanic. I say fuck them and their bronze age shit. The world would be better off if they were processed into dog food.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I owuld not go that far as processed dog food

but you do need to understand your enemy, and they are that.

[snake in the grass]

11. Soylent Green then?

At some point it will be us vs. them. I hate that fact and I never initiate violence, but it's coming. In the end, we will be forced to decide and I would rather eat than be eaten.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You are reducing yourself to their level

as to the revolution, in the US, are you shitting me?

[snake in the grass]

14. ---U.S. and revolution---

Laughing with you. Looking at Iran right now, I think we still have a lot to learn. We're too busy stuffing ourselves with Big Macs while voting on "American Idolatry" or devouring "Dancing with the Mutants" to put our oversized asses in motion for something as banal as liberty.

While living in Germany the past 22 years, I had my education in civil responsibility. The "Left" there likes to quote Brecht on their placards when promoting peace. The slogan is "Imagine it's war and no one goes". It's catchy, it's cool...but it's incomplete and it pisses me off that they use it, because they should know better than to mine such an important quote. In it's entirety Brecht writes the following, "Imagine it's war and no one goes - then the war will come to all of you."(Stell Dir vor es ist Krieg, und keiner geht hin - dann kommt der Krieg zu Euch!).

Now, I don't have a bomb shelter, a gas mask, or an assault weapon, but they do. They've been waiting for this moment for a long time and now is as good a time as any. Think how many McVeighs or Rudolphs are out there, itching for the chance. You may scoff at the idea of revolution, but one day, perhaps soon, it will come to you. Peace and love won't get you through the day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. What is coming to the US is civil war,

and as usual those come when one side believes it has no other choice

Revolutions, though they have elements of civil wars, are different in how they are carried out. Or their goals for that matter.

And I have been predicting it for a while, and it will not be marching troops, but lone wolves and cells going active. I know what we are dealing with. But the US population going to a revolution to fight for their freedom? As you said, too busy wolfing down big macs.

[snake in the grass]

17. I was very tired when I read your comment and...

...didn't catch the subtle difference between the two. One can only hope that these groups are being monitored. Lone wolves are very hard to stop and they concern me the most.

[autorank]

6. These guys are vexing k*r

I view this cults as a trade association for the PTB, one of several. They collect various elements of the power structure the auspices of religious organization and allow the fools to gather at special events. This group provides that service in the form of the National Prayer Breakfast and other gatherings. PTB also uses this group for special missions or for bag man functions, you know, to collect or deliver the cash for this or that.

The philosophy of the group is aligned with imperialism. They just mask it in a religious structure. It has no connection with Jesus or the four gospels. That wouldn't bother people like those Republicans who live there. The bigger the lie, the easier it is to accept. And all it is really is "American exceptionalism" - the "get of of jail free" card for any form of action we choose because we're so "special."

Now the fun part, the business about it being OK for the members to fool around and so forth. Great grab for suckers. Sure, you're a Senator or Representative - why not air your dirty laundry with "the boys." It's a relief. Hard job, running the world. Sure, trust us. We'll never tell because we're so special. IN FACT, this type of confession is stock in trade for people who extort influence by holding the material in the confession over the heads of those revealing the compromising information. This extortion is not needed usually since these guys are so stupid, you don't even have to bribe them. But when the chips are down and any of them waiver or when one of them has to take a fall, it is just a matter of saying:

"Oh, Sen. X, remember the story about the hooker and the French poodle? Yeah, that one. Now go out there and sponsor a bill for toxins in breakfast cereal. Yep, that's it. Hate to see how people would react if that ever got out." It's a great system and it has been around din one form or another for a long, long time.

Maybe we should have a show called "Celebrity Cult Death Match" where The Family and other world wide cults
like Opus Dei can go at it?

Thanks Nadin, this is very thought provoking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Oh you welcome, the things one thinks about

while readying a book at a child play facility... not kidding.

Took care of nephews during the weekend, so I got to read some of that while watching little darlings. (That is a whole different story)

[mod mom]

19. Romans 13: "The powers that be are ordained of God" pg 220

They preach that the social gospel (helping/feeding the poor, downtrodden) isn't necessary as long as you are devoted to Christ (you can disregard his teachings). It's very convenient for these leaders to practice this type of "faith". They don't even have to bother w church to get tax exempt status!

"disdained "good works", aid to the poor, as irrevelant to salvation. The only help the poor needed was Jesus." pg 236



Funny how this "faith" prefers laissez faire economics, isn't it. A free market Jesus with limited regulation. EXTREMELY convenient for those in power!

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. kick

[csziggy]

13. K&R

[AntiFascist]

16. There's also one more philosophy: Randism....

while Ayn Rand was a self-described atheist (I believe) her ideas fall in line perfectly with those of The Family, as well as many of those who not only lead our nation but are in charge of our economy. If you are familiar with Atlas Shrugged then you know what their idea of The Chosen Few is all about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. There are actually significant differences, not in the result mind you

but in the nitty gritty.

For the Family this is to spread the kingdom of god and all that, and the chosen are above the law.

For Ain Ryan the idea of the chosen is those who lead, but had no religious component. A classic Randian would not fit in the Family, except as a path to power. After that, truly disposable.

Why I say what is coming to the US is a theocracy. It will share elements with classic fascism, and to those living through it will not make much of a difference, but there are significant differences.

And yes I need to re-read Atlas one of these days...

[AntiFascist]

23. Keep in mind though...

Coe has been careful not to classify The Family as specifically Christian, rather they would like to follow in the footsteps of Christ, just as they can learn from the (anti-communist) "success" of Hitler and others.

Rand refers to the Prime Movers as Creators. According to Rand's notes: "it is proper for a Creator to be optimistic...since the creator believes in a benevolent universe and functions on that premise. But it is an error to extend that premise to other specific men... man is a being with free will; therefore, each man is potentially good or evil, and it is up to him to decide which he wants to be.... while a creator does and must worship Man...he must not make the mistake of thinking that this means the necessity to worship Mankind (as a collective).

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. The Family is actually one version of chritianity that is loosely based on

calvinism, (though Calvin would do summersaults).

but yes Abram Vedere saw wealth and power as a sign of being saved. So yes, they are christian... in my view in the loosest definition.

I highly recommend the book by the way.

Now they seem to be the same, or similar... but elite ideology is similar in some respects. Now I do need to reread Atlas, for many reasons, or just seat down and read objectivism... it is the basis for one of my successor states... in fiction.

;-(

Unfortunately I feel I may be writing prophecy (loosest definitions) and not fiction.

[mod mom]

20. What's PTB?

:blush:

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Powers that be

:-)

[mod mom]

25. Thank you.

Good book but it's given me nightmares. Very scary stuff! I would NEVER vote for anyone with even the slightest ties to this cult.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. It is a scary book indeed, and like roaches

they will try to run for cover... so keeping tract will be hard

[defendandprotect]

21. The right wing/GOP has funded the fundamentalist movement . . .

organized patriarchal religion underpins patriarchy --

evidently, you can't self-proclaim yourself "superior" you need a "god" to do it!!!

GOP gave start up funds to Christian Coalition --

CIA created Taliban/Al Qaeda thru ISI/Pakistan -- funding it with hundreds of millions
of dollars until 9/11. We used them to "bait the Russians into Afghanistan" US was in
Afghanistan 6 months before the Russians came in. We wanted to give the Russians . . .
"a Vietnam type experience" . . . !!!

US has used religion/Christian all over the world to suppress populations from native
Americans to Hawaii, etal.

Still doing it!

Prince/Blackwater's father financed the Dobson and Bauer religious organizations . . .
!!!

Sixties revolution was an attack on all authority -- mainly patriarchy and it's vile teachings.

[el_bryanto]

24. I'm not clear -

What forms of spirituality/mysticism are non-fundamentalist?

Bryant

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You can beleive in a creator, no problem

but for all of these groups if you do not believe in a creator, or worst, their version of it, you are less than human. Their goal is to impose a theocracy based on their particular version of their faith...