RE:Duke I would like to apologize

[underpants]

I am sorry that these three young men had to go through what they had to go through due to false claims.

Since they are the only people this has ever happened to I would expect this to stand as a precautionary tale of how the system can be wrong.

I trust that this will not happen again and that should anything like this happen again the same amount of attention would be paid to it.

Oh yeah almost forgot ---> :sarcasm:


I really do think that this is horrible. I can't say that I remember another case where there was such an across-the-board effort to state without no doubt that they couldn't possibly have done such a thing. Strange days indeed.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Did the woman recant her story?

Or was their simply insufficient evidence?

[Dora]

3. I believe the evidence proved her story false. n/t

[yardwork]

12. More like, there was no evidence to indicate that her story was true.

The charges have been dropped due to lack of evidence. There is really no reason to think that any physical assault occurred.

[Dora]

13. Thanks for the clarification. n/t

[myrna minx]

4. Off topic, but good catch/research on the zapped thread.

:toast: I didn't get the opportunity to say so in the vanished thread.

[pnwmom]

18. The Attorney General says that she told numerous stories that

could not be reconciled with each other or the evidence -- but that she appeared to believe ALL of her stories. The clear implication was that she was mentally unstable, and a reporter asked about that. The answer was that the Attorney General didn't want to address that directly, but they did have information about her "under seal" that made them decide NOT to file criminal charges against her.

[pnwmom]

28. She wanted to go forward with charges BUT

she was telling numerous contradictory stories and she believed ALL of them.

[Bake]

2. Don't forget that the lacrosse coach lost his job, too.

Speaking of people whose lives were actually RUINED. Three young men facing CRIMINAL charges for almost two years ... one coach FIRED ...

But expecting any righteous indignation or outrage over this sorry episode is, I guess, too much to ask.

Bake

[taterguy]

5. But they chose to be associated with Duke

Their lives were ruined already

[Bake]

7. I hope you are being humorous.

I mean, nobody loathes Dook any more than I do. But what happened in this case was just WRONG.

Bake

[Mike Daniels]

54. That's funny... a number of my best friends are from Duke

and their lives are quite successful. I hardly think their lives are ruined and they are all quite decent people.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. re: "... lacrosse coach lost his job...."

"Speaking of people whose lives were actually RUINED."

I want people to read this closely: I'm not endorsing what happened to him, but I wouldn't say that his life has been ruined. Yes, he got a bad deal, but he is taking lemons and turning them into lemonade.

The ex-Duke coach is Mike Pressler. Where is he now? He ended up coaching men's lacrosse at a DII school up in Rhode Island named Bryant. How is he doing?

Bryant Men Upset No. 1 Le Moyne 10-9 in OT

March 24, 2007

BRYANT MEN UPSET NO. 1 LE MOYNE 10-9 IN OT
Bulldogs Snap Dolphin's 70-game Conference Win Streak

SMITHFIELD, R.I. - All streaks must come to an end eventually. Sophomore Kevin Hoagland's (Glastonbury, Conn.) fifth goal of the game with 1:50 left in overtime gave the ninth-ranked Bryant University men's lacrosse team a thrilling 10-9 win over top-ranked and defending national champion Le Moyne College before a crowd of more than 700 Saturday afternoon at the Bryant Turf Field Complex.

The victory for Bryant was the program's first over Le Moyne in 13 tries and snaps the Dolphin's incredible 70-game Northeast-10 Conference win streak. Le Moyne came into the game riding a 21 game win streak and 63 regular season unbeaten streak.

"A great win for these kids and everything they've endured," said Bryant coach Mike Pressler after the game. "They (Le Moyne) are the king of the hill in Division II. That's a great, great team. I couldn't be more proud of our guys."

That's right. His players beat a team that, depending on how you parse it, had won 21, 63, or 70 games in a row. Bryant now has a four-game winning streak going.

Pressler has a press conference scheduled for later today:

Pressler press conference

Again, I'm not saying that what happened to him was right, but it could have turned out worse.

[Bake]

16. Div. II school? Quite a demotion, I'd say.

And I doubt he ever gets back to the level he was at with Duke. I admire him for making the best of it, but isn't that what we all try to do when life takes a big dump on us?

No. I guess it isn't.

Bake

[mahatmakanejeeves]

37. "I doubt he ever gets back to the level he was at with Duke."

It's hard to say. He's still young. A Maryland high school coach (Severna Park) just moved up to coaching professional lacrosse. Actually, that may be a sideways move, as the high school sends lots of player to DI schools.

Pressler's current players are probably glad he's there, but I'm certain that he would not have chosen to leave Duke in such a fashion.

I understand entirely what you're saying. What happened was a debacle in every sense of the word.

Thanks for writing.

[bryant69]

6. Fuck those guys

They were rich white guys - fuck 'em. Who gives a shit what they have to suffer? THey have spent their whole lives being rich and white and they will spend the rest of their lives being rich and white.

Fuck those guys.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jhrobbins]

8. So because they were white and wealthy, it is OK for them to be

lied about. You are seriously ill advised.

[Balbus]

9. I doubt he was serious.

[jhrobbins]

14. Well, I need to see the tongue in cheek emoticon to be sure, don't you think?

[Balbus]

24. Do you?

I wouldn't begin to presume what you need or don't need in order "to be sure" about something. We all have our guidelines that we use to make our determination upon a particular matter. My guidelines? I use this posters previous posts in other threads on other and similar subjects to determine that he was sarcastic.

You apparently need an emoticon.

[bryant69]

30. I don't use fucking emoticons

I fucking hate emoticons. I don't need to underline sarcasm, and if you don't get it, what do I care?

Bryant

[renie408]

33. Yeah, he don't need no stinking emoticons. He can say 'fucking' over and over. n/t

[jhrobbins]

39. Yeah, he's a charmer alright.

[SayWhatYo]

44. well...

fuck'n aye.

Seemed like it was needed.

[JVS]

48. Maybe it would help to prevent misunderstandings, fuckface

and if you cannot tell whether my use of fuckface is sarcasm or not, then that's on you.




































on edit: just to be sure :sarcasm:

[Bake]

15. Hard to tell around here these days.

Bake

[pnwmom]

25. Exactly. I've read many serious comments along those lines.

[pnwmom]

21. There are DU'ers who also are white and send their children

to schools like Duke. So your comments are offensive.

[ObamaNationYes]

27. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW OR WHY YOU ARE ALLOWED ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD!

It is always the same with you - HATE and VENOM. Differing opinions are one thing - and they are healthy - but there is nothing ever healthy in your posts. I am dissappointed that you are allowed to post here.

[bryant69]

31. Send a message to Skinner

See if you can talk him into banning me.

Bryant

[SayWhatYo]

45. lol, personal friends?

I'm not taking any "sides" here. But I can't help but laugh at that comment because I'm friends with the owners of a few popular websites and I pretty much say or do whatever I want at those. It's even more funny when I am actually on my own sites being an ass(not saying you're being ass, but some think you are)...

[citizen snips]

34. What?

It is not their fault they are rich and white.

[Forkboy]

36. How long O lord?

[index555]

56. and fuck all those guys who say "fuck all those guys"

[yardwork]

10. Everyone would do well to check the facts first

This local article sums up the facts pretty well. There was never any evidence beyond the accuser's say-so that any assault happened. Nifong lied to the public by stating that there was evidence of sexual assault when there was none. Nifong also made statements against the accused that amount to slander. This all happened during a very tight primary race, that Nifong probably would have lost if it were not for this high-profile case.

Nifong will probably lose his law license. Everyone else involved has lost to a varying degree. It's a sad, miserable case with no winners.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/562915.html

[Bake]

17. Don't forget that the lying-ass accuser needs to go to jail.

What she did was a crime. A real crime.

Bake

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Can you prove it?

Assuming somebody's guilty before they've been found guilty in the court of law? Isn't that what you're complaining about?

:rofl:

[Bake]

22. Let me make amends: "What she allegedly did was a crime ..."

If I were the prosecutor, yeah, I'm pretty sure I could prove it.

Bake

[pnwmom]

29. The Attorney General said that they have information about her

under seal, that made them decide not to charge her criminally. She appears to believe all her contradictory stories. He wouldn't state it outright, but it appears that she's mentally not all there.

[Solo_in_MD]

20. What about the 88? Apologies for some of their statements are well overdue, Duke admin should eat

some crow as well. The coach also should be compensated

[yardwork]

42. Which statements? Most of them were actually good points.

The statements that I have read by concerned faculty and members of the Duke and Durham community were careful to make a distinction between this unproven case and the VERY REAL problems that have existed on that campus for many years. I know this first-hand. The reason so many people believed that the accusations were true is that there have been serious problems with sexist, sexual assaults, and racism in the Duke community.

Don't blame the faculty and community members for speaking out.

[pnwmom]

23. The Attorney General implied that she wasn't mentally stable.

He said they considered bringing criminal charges against her, but rejected that idea. They think that she believes all her contradictory stories, and they have information about her "under seal" that made them decide not to charge her with lying.

[yardwork]

41. I believe that the accuser has been a helpless pawn in all this

I don't think that she ever intended to press charges. She has been manipulated by the DA.

[Leopolds Ghost]

50. Do white people go to jail when (the wrong) black man is arrested?

[Bake]

55. Some of them work to get the innocent black man OUT.

Ever hear of The Innocence Project?

Bake

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. They Should

eom

[pnwmom]

26. NO ONE, black or white, rich or poor, should have to go through this.

And the system owes an apology to these students.

[woo me with science]

32. succinct and true nt

[vssmith]

59. Right! these were just good red-blooded all-American boys

out to have some good well-deserved healthy fun for a night.

[Blackhatjack]

35. The truth is there are no 'winners' here. Only a cautionary message for everyone...

The power of the justice system should never be underestimated, and if we let people 'use' the justice system for partisan political gain much damage can and will be done.

We all are vulnerable to being charged unjustly. All it takes is for an individual to go down the courthouse and swear out a warrant against us.

The next time someone is charged with a crime, remember this case. It could be you the next time.

[Gman]

38. "I can't say that I remember another case where

there was such an across-the-board effort to state without no doubt that they couldn't possibly have done such a thing."

Precisely my point in this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=626959&mesg_id=626959

[MedleyMisty]

40. It is bad if they went through this and weren't guilty

but I sense a troubling misoygny under many of the posts. It's in the words chosen and between the lines.

Rape is real. It does happen. A lot. One case where it may not have happened does not mean that everyone lies about it or that it is not one of the most serious crimes.

[tammywammy]

47. I agree

As a woman that has been raped, I abhor the fact that other women lie about it. It sounds like this particular woman has some sort of trouble, maybe mentally and I hope that she gets help.

Regardless, if someone maliciously lies about rape, that person should face punishment.

[index555]

57. it would depend on their mental state

If it was a deliberate attempt to "get at" defame or get money from another then yes
If the person is in fact unstable then I , like you hope they get the mental help they need.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. You don't suppose they see her as.... (insert Imus reference)

:shrug:

Why, of COURSE NOT.

NOBODY thinks THAT way anymore... especially not DEMOCRATS.

[Treehugger_72]

43. WTF?

What is WRONG with some of YOU people? Is it all black and white here or what? Those boys are innocent. The case GOT a lot of attention because a substandard prosecutor went overboard at election time. Any IDIOT could see that she was full of crap, regardless of her color. There NEVER should have been a case in the first place because there WAS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CASE.

Yes they are rich white boys. she is a black woman. SO WHAT! That is NOT the issue here. You are missing the whole point entirely.

The media is what gave those boys their shot at having ALL the charges dropped in the first place. I think you should be applauding them (MEDIA)for bringing this sort of injustice to the front and center of what happens every day in this country.

[SayWhatYo]

46. ???

Very few people here are against the Duke players or think something went wrong. Of course, I'm an idiot so maybe I'm misreading everything I'm reading... but I don't think so.

[Leopolds Ghost]

49. Injustice against white folks happens every day in this country

Fortunately, "any idiot could see that the accuser (a black woman) was full of crap."

Just by looking at her. (not having access to the details of the court case)

Just by listening to cable news (racist, Imus-hosting, Gary Beck-hosting, Limbaugh-hosting) and reading the trash papers (since the respectable news outlets did precious little coverage of this non-story).

This is not true when the accuser is a blonde accusing a black man of rape.

[Treehugger_72]

52. Response

I wrote SOME of you ppl.

If it were a blonde woman against POOR black men she would have stood a better chance yes bc POOR is the key element of the situation. If it were a blonde woman against POOR white men the odds would be the SAME as the poor black men. Those kids had the resources to fight for justice that many do not have. They were blessed by the Lord to have the financial and family/friends resources. The media helped their cases overwhelmingly, especially Fox News.

Leopolds Ghost: You have put words into my statement that DO NOT exist. I never said "...the accuser (a black woman)..." . Please DON'T presume to speak for me. I am a woman and a rape victim myself. I personally felt that HER credibility as a stripper and already had 3 different sets of male dna in her vagina (none of the "attackers")was enough to solve that mystery. Color was not the issue here in THIS case.

The race card comes into play BY the prosecutor of the case as he was vying for the 'black' vote, and he got it. He used her. Was that a racist thing to do? Yes. only by the prosecutor in the case.

[Nikia]

53. Their reputations wouldn't have been at stake at all if the media wasn't involved

It may shock you to know that people are falsely accused of crimes all the time. With all the arrests made and charges filed it only requires that a small percentage of these people to be innocent to say that it happens every day. A lot of these cases are dropped when it is shown there is insufficient evidence. Yes, the accused is often scared of the charges but no one's reputation gets ruined, not the accused and not the false accuser.

[index555]

58. is that really so true these days?

If anyone wants to go to work for a company that does a background check , doesn't the fact that they were charged still come up?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. Yes

And I doubt many good jobs are available to folks charged with rape, even those in which the charges were dropped.