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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:44 AM
Original message
'Racist' Baby Doll Pulled From Stores
'Racist' Baby Doll Pulled From Stores
Toy Features African-American Baby With Monkey

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Wholesale giant Costco is pulling thousands of dolls from its store shelves after parents complained that the toys are racist.

The "Cuddle with Me" doll features an African-American baby that comes packaged with a plush monkey. A cap on the baby doll has the words "lil' monkey" on it.

Many parents expressed disbelief that the doll was being sold.

"Somewhere along the production line of this doll, whether it was in the store, at the manufacturer or somewhere, someone should have noticed that this was potentially going to be a problem," said Gendolyn Bookman, a concerned mother.



http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20382431/detail.html
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. You have to be kidding me. Who thought that was a good idea?????
Glad the parents spoke up.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
89. ClusterFUX News probably had an advertising contract
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. There's no way the obvious went unnoticed in conception/production
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. I think the spectacular nature of this faceplant...
...proves that it was not premeditated. Epic fail--a string of epic fails, as you note.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. you'd think a 12 year old Chineese girl working the prodcution line
would be more sensitive to this! :sarcasm: illegal codesmilie_remote(':sarcasm:')
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
68. Remember the incident with the racist sofa a few years ago?
The brown color was described on the label using the "n" word.

http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/sofa.asp

The Canadian woman who bought the sofa told her daughter it was an example of how racist the US is--only it turned out to be the Chinese manufacturer that made the label and shipped the sofa to Canada.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #68
87. A friend of mine bought some Santa Claus music boxes and they played "Here Comes Peter Cottontail".
They came from China and the tags were in Chinese. They were sold out before I could get one!
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. OMG. That is outrageous. How many people must this have "accidentally" slipped by
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 10:52 AM by Mrs. Overall
before it landed on a retail shelf?

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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well, the doll itself is cute. But the monkey thing is sick.
One of my daughters latched on to a black baby doll very similar to that and it was her favorite. My mother was beside herself. She bought her at least a dozen white baby dolls, but my daughter never switched. She wouldn't let her take it out in public with her. My daughter was in tears because she couldn't take her doll and my mother offered her an "appropriate" doll as a replacement for being in public. She wouldn't take it. I actually screamed at my mother about that. She still claims she isn't a racist, but I say "bullshit".

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I agree with you
I like the doll, she's cute and I'd play with her if I were a doll person.

Why a monkey? It's a hideous and racist paring.

Don't dolls come with little bottles anymore?
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. The only thing I'm sad about is that Golden Books stopped printing "Little Black Sambo"
It was viewed as racist. I disagree. It was one of my favorite books. Little Black Sambo outwits the tigers - how is that racist? The only problem with it is that the drawings were right out of a 1950's Aunt Jemima syrup bottle. Face it, the Pokey Little Puppy looks like the 1950's Betty Crocker! Get real, people!

But the monkey with the doll is far too obvious to have been simply "overlooked". Yes, a bottle would do just fine.

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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. A bit about Sambo and the "picaninny" drawings:
For many African Americans Little Black Sambo was an entertaining story ruined by racist pictures and racist names. Julius Lester, who has recently co-authored Sam and the Tigers, an updated Afrocentric version of Little Black Sambo, wrote:

"When I read Little Black Sambo as a child, I had no choice but to identify with him because I am black and so was he. Even as I sit here and write the feelings of shame, embarrassment and hurt come back. And there was a bit of confusion because I liked the story and I especially liked all those pancakes, but the illustrations exaggerated the racial features society had made it clear to me represented my racial inferiority -- the black, black skin, the eyes shining white, the red protruding lips. I did not feel good about myself as a black child looking at those pictures."

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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Yeah, that was basically the problem.
But everything, including Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben, were drawn that way at the time. Still, the story is about an intelligent young boy who outwits the three tigers. Update the damn drawings and republish it already! It is a story about being strong and smart and that's what I loved about it. The pictures meant nothing to me at the time, other than I thought the tigers were too small relative to the size of the boy. I could see that even when I was four.

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road2000 Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
124. But it's not just the art.
The parents are "Black Jumbo" and "Black Mumbo." There would still be an offensive element.

BTW, add me to the list of those who liked the book as a kid. My favorite part was the tiger with the purple slippers on his ears.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
45. I wonder if any poor white Appalachians feel the same about L'il Abner.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 11:52 AM by KittyWampus
a fair number of DU'ers like to rip on "hillbillies".

And while one might point out that white people have generally been portrayed in various sympathetic ways... I'd say that isn't the case for poor, white people in rural communities.

Note- my post is solely pointed to thoughts on Sambo comic.

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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
63. I don't understand--whenever we are talking about an obvious racial
issue involving African Americans--why must people immediately give an example of white stereotyping?

Are people afraid that if the historic racial inequality of African Americans is talked about, then somehow it downplays the fewer instances of racism against certain whites? So we all need to be immediately reminded of it?

Am I misunderstanding your intent?

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. Did you follow the damned subthread? I POSTED MY RESPONSE WAS RE:SAMBO.
And I edited my response specifically because of DU'ers such as yourself.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. But your response was to my comments on Sambo (#25). Please, you don't have
to be so rude. Obviously I'm following the sub thread as I'm the poster to whom you responded. Insulting me is rather pointless.

I'm not trying to start a fight with you. I am just curious why people on threads such as these give examples of white stereotypes, such as your example of Li'l Abner. Are Sambo and Li'l Abner really comparable? Perhaps they are. I was honestly just interested in discussing it.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #79
117. they are not comparable and I agree with you...
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
107. I think people refer to things like that to try and make a connection to something they understand
In teaching I often took something that my students might not be personally familiar with and compared it to something from their direct life experience. A reference to "Lil' Abner" stereotyping that might have been experienced by some whites, especially those from the south who travel elsewhere, might help create a connection in some minds.

It brings to mind the "blue eyes, brown eyes" thing that the elementary teachers did back in the sixties to introduce her white students to the concept of racism. She went on to conduct workshops in schools, universities, businesses, and prisons across the country.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. Yes, a point of reference. Agreed.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
116. sorry no comparision....they can change clothes....
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
125. How about Snuffy Smiff?
Barney Google hasn't made a cameo in years!

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
73. Sam and the Tigers is a great book, my daughter loves it. n/t
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:44 PM
Original message
As I recall, the original story was written by an Englishwoman,
and is actually set in India.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
37. Wonder what would happen -
"Little White Bubba " w/the same story line? Just Asking.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Threads like this always bring them out of the woodwork...
I don't think that book has ever been written nor do I believe it will be written in the future.

Why don't you spell out your point a little more?
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Did you read post #29 ?
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
106. I imagine that the monkey hat was made for a white doll
Which would cause no eyebrows to raise (I admit I sometimes have called my 3 year old son Mr. Monkey), and the hat was used on the inventory of black dolls.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. i call my little girl 'monkey' all the time
now...we're white folks so it's ok. i am wondering if this same cap comes on the caucasian doll?

sP
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I guess you are the ignorant type of "white folks" because anyone familiar with US History
knows the association of post Civil War African Americans with primates as a means of dehumanization propaganda.

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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. ok...you missed the point...
I call my little one little monkey...she is caucasian as are we...therefor there is no 'racial' overtone to that naming convention. i asked if a caucasian doll might have had that cap because i am guessing that would offend no one. the reason for the asking was to give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt by assuming that perhaps caps meant for caucasian dolls got mixed up.

sP
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Right, and this slipped by how many eyes before landing on Costco's shelf?
Your original post seems to imply-- "it's not racist on a white doll so why should it be racist on a black doll."

Sorry if I misunderstood your intent.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I would not think it would be racist on a white doll...
maybe I am wrong. but my guess is that these little things were made overseas where such an overtone might be missed. and as for how many levels? I cannot speak for Costco, but when I stocked shelves I would never have noticed. I had a pallet full of stuff that had to get on the shelf so I just made it look like the boss wanted...I could see it being missed...

sP
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
50. keep in mind, when they were landing on costco's shelf
there were dolls of all colors with different animals... so i can understand how a stocker wouldn't necessarily inspect each permutation for possible racial overtones... They are likely just moving boxes...
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
119. so what were the other animals associated with the dolls in all?
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. You are being racist toward your family. nt
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. right... n/t
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. I'm just giving you a hard time.
I'm not serious. I get what you are saying.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. it's all good...i'm with ya!
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. I call my daughter "lil' monkey" as well.
She's 1/4 black, but I'd certainly would resent being called a racist because of it. I call her that because she's cute, curious and precocious like a little monkey. As for the doll, I can't say if the intent was racist, but I can certainly see how it's viewed as such.
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
74. It looks like there were white "lil monkeys" as well...
...way to leave that out OP.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
120. It doesn't matter, I mean honestly, look at all the bs that has come out with
our new president and monkey has been used far more often the past year than I have ever seen so for someone not to see this association with what has been done to our president is bull.....and if you don't recall, there were many cartoons drawn with monkeys and our president not to mention idiot dobbs, the intent was more than clear...
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #120
127. No, the intent is NOT clear.
If there's a white, black and asian "lil monkey"...and a white, black and asian "lil panda"...and a white, black and asian "lil whatever"...the intent seems to sell dolls with animal themed clothing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Well, right at the moment, you are.
But I expect you'll be disappearing any time now.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You need to study up on the history of African Americans in this country and the use of
primate names to belittle, dehumanize, and intimidate them.

Your post speaks volumes.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. He knows. He gets it.
He chooses not to care.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Then he is truly a fuckhead.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Obviously.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. You lack a knowledge of history
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. Who's overreacting here?
Here's a hint: look in the mirror.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
34. Let me guess - you're white, no?
So am I - doesn't mean you should (pretend to) be ignorant of the history of racism in this country.
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. You are joking right?
I'm going to assume that on a progressive website that has to be sarcasm and hopefully not ignorance.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
57. No doubt, they were marketing it to people like you. nt
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
62. LOL... you're racist. (nt)
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
121. I honestly can't believe that your calling this overreaction?
pc bed wetters? We have a president that has faced mountains of hostility simply because of his race from day one and you have the nerve to see such as whining?????and along with that hostility has come outright threats of violence and the pugs are pushing these crazy racist idiots out there daily to do something anything to stop a man who is not white from serving out his term, not one man or woman running for president in this country has ever received the amount of death threats or racist jokes that he has had to expericnce...and why? because they were either white or they did not have a chance of winning and everyone know President Obama had a huge chance....
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. This should be fun
:popcorn:
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. I wonder if this would have happened if ...
... the factory that made these dolls was in this country.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. That was my first thought. Back in China,
the Chinese factory workers wouldn't notice anything was amiss.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. Assuming it wasn't intentional.
Most factory workers still need basic skills in order to do the job.

In the case of the doll, it likely was an accident -- their history doesn't have the same level of hatred, bigotry, and slavery ours does.
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rapturedbyrobots Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. not surprised
if you've ever been to asia you'll notice a LOT of brands and products that would be considered completely racist and unacceptable here. except that in asia that racism (and it is recognized as such) is acceptable...especially toward african immigrants. my favorite is Black Man underwear. also Darlie (mistranslation of Darkie) Toothpaste...and yes...there is a black guy on the box...in a tuxedo...with really white teeth. so its no surprise that some of this stuff shows up in our imports. but we have a different history in the u.s. with regards to race relations, and someone here should've noticed this before it hit the shelves.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. interesting response.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
28. wow, just wow. nt
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. potentially?
Oy vey.
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. I can't believe someone thought THAT was a good marketing idea.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 11:27 AM by Mystayya
And how did Costco's buyer's miss that one? Do they not look at items they are purchasing?
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
35. Remember the Kung Fool halloween mask quite a few years back....
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 11:30 AM by zonkers
They were promptly recalled. I am not shocked this stuff happens, especially when goods originate abroad.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. No words...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
40. CostCo pulled it off their shelves ... Sam's Club will gleefully sell the discounted overstock.
:shrug:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
43. If the bandana was on the monkey then it'd be fine. But on the girl?!!!!
I've to wonder what happened to the designer's paperwork between design and when it got to the production factory -- assuming the manufacturers know how to read...

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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
46. Looks like all the dolls came in a version for each animal
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. I give you three more posts then.....
poof....it's pizza time. Seriously go back to freepville where they'll understand your dribble.
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Are you the site owner?
I thought this was called Democratic Underground? Isn't free speech a goal of democracy?

I don't understand why you are attacking me for giving my opinion. Isn't that the goal?
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I have pretty good idea of what your
goal here is.
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. based on what?
my goal was to point out that the dolls came in every variety, a point that was missing from this conversation. Is that wrong?
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #67
70.  dupe.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 12:48 PM by titoresque

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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. yep
they do. And if not intentionally racist they are, at best, very offensive.
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. Thank you
for you graciousness in considering my thoughts without bias.

I'll concede that it could be offensive, I just suspect it was an accident.
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. A Panda is not the same as a Monkey.
Stop trying to justify racism. Monkey, Ape and other non-human label were pinned on black people from the time of slavery to dehumanize them. You would have to be very ignorant to not realize that. And if you adopted a black child and filled his room with monkeys and bought him toys that looked like black children wearing clothes calling them monkeys then YES that would be racist and ignorant.
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. A monkey is a generic animal used in decoration of childrens items..
and there was obviously no intention of racism on the part of the manufacturer, because, as you see - all color dolls came with all animals...

How can it be racism if it wasn't intended as such? it seems more like the racism is in your perception.

Am I allowed to have my own opinion, or are the rules that I have to agree with you?
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. There is no rule that you have to agree with anyone
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 12:09 PM by Mystayya
Even Stormfront has the right to say what they think. But be mindful that not everyone will agree with you or give you a platform for those views on their website. If you defend racism, trivialize racism on this site I have a feeling the site owners won't want to give you that platform for much longer. You know it is racism, deep down, you know it is wrong. If you didn't then I doubt you would have enough intelligence to navigate the internet.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. Welcome to DU, Mystayya.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 12:23 PM by Mrs. Overall
You make some great points against this idiot (ihelpyou). Keep posting!
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #65
123. Thank you Mrs. Overall !
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. I simply don't agree that it is racism
based on the details that I presented, which, by the way, were totally missing from this conversation.

If you can't tolerate getting all of the facts, and if you can't tolerate diversity of opinion, then I agree, this is no place for me. But if that is the case, then please don't pretend that you support democracy, that's all I ask. Please leave that to informed and open minded progressives.
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Based on the details you provided you are correct
it may very well be a case of complete, albeit disgusting, ignorance. However, when you take history into account, its fairly easy for considerate minded people to see that an African American baby doll with "Lil Monkey" printed on her cap would most likely offend.
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ihelpyou Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
84. Or "boy" - I wonder if that causes problems, too?
Baby items usually come in pink and blue and are often labeled "girl" and "boy", particularly for newborns, as their gender is often less obvious.

With that word carrying potential racial implications, I would think there may have been many unintentional instances of similar nature to this case. Or, perhaps in those cases, no one thought to perceive it as racism.
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. yes and a white hood
worn while burning crosses is just a smart look.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #51
80. Racism is never "intended" as racism. Ask any racist. They'll tell you.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Obviously this was a cultural snafu. It seems like a lot of people are so invested in their outrage
that they cannot process any new information on this subject.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. I know what you mean. Imagine in this day and age people still are upset about racism--
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 12:25 PM by Mrs. Overall
isn't that just the craziest thang?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
81. You have a rather sloppy definition of racism.
Cultural insensitivity/ignorance is not the same as racism. So let's educate the people involved and move on. Accusing an inanimate object of racism based on what is clearly a cultural misunderstanding is counter-productive. :hi:
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
91. Hint--I was being sarcastic to your initial post.
However, what you just wrote does clarify your original intent.

I agree about cultural insensitivity as opposed to racism.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
101. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It can be very difficult to tell, round here.
:blush:

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Edit: dupe. nt
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 12:10 PM by Romulox
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. I think several people have already asked if the white dolls came with the 'monkey' hat.
So... yeah.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. Tone and context. Most parents, Grand parents, uncles, aunts, etc...
...have almost certainly at times used terms that on the face of it would be highly inappropriate when referencing their triple P's, (pee, puke and poop).

Personally, I reserve "Little Monkey" until they make it at least halfway up the curtains.


As far as this doll is concerned, Costco should be taking a long hard look at the person approving the purchase, and if it was made to order, the one(s) who did the ordering.

However, I suspect it was mainly a case of simple ignorance. In most places around the world this would be a total non-issue, particulary if Lil' Monkey were just one of several choices.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
54. How Ward Cosell found this out years ago
That term don't make it.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
75. Oh No, this is all a mistake
A terrible mistake, this is my fault and I can straighten it out.

I'm a production manager for the company that makes the dolls and we had a mixup on the line. The hats in question were for the "Babs and George, the early years" playset we are introducing later this year. The "little monkey" hat was for the baby George W Bush dolls, not the dolls they wound up on.

Oh lord, how could this happen, please forgive me.....



:rofl:
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
78. Wonder if there was a white counterpoint to this doll?
Often baby dolls are offered in both colors... and that's how this would have been missed.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. Yes, there were. And there were also different animals. An Asian doll with a Panda, for instance
Along with a white and black doll with Pandas.

Photo posted up-thread.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #78
94. Appears so. See post 46. n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
83. It's always funny when white folks use the "it's just a mistake" defense of bigotry.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. yeah...all those white people on the assembly line in China...
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Bloo just usually sprays then moves on. Doubt he will be back. nt
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Assembly line workers didn't make the decision.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. oh, you're right...the chinese manufacturer COULDN'T have messed up...
it HAS to be racism...

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. Um... what about the buyer? The shelf-stockers?
There are a few levels between assembly line worker and consumer.

FFS... it's not an unreasonable thing to wonder... why get ridiculous?
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. um...are you familiar with the way big box stores do business?
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 02:10 PM by ProdigalJunkMail
a box-store places and order for a product from a company based on specs/prototypes to them. that production run heads off to a foreign land. SOMETHING happens in the production run...like a hat getting on the WRONG FUCKING DOLL! those 100's or 1000's of dolls are stuck on palettes, shipped essentially directly to BIG ASS STORE NUMBER ONE and the first person to lay eyes on them since they left China (or any other manufacturing point) is the stock-person at two in the morning who still has 4 aisles left to stock before opening...

no, it is not an unREASONABLE thing to wonder...but the default is 'racism' instead of figuring out how it could be a legitimate mistake or a cultural inconsistency...

sP
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Well racist is in quotes in the OP...
and there are more than a few people asking if the white dolls had the hat... or saying it's a cultural mistake. So the sanity in this thread really isn't as rare as you seem to think.

It just seems like you and a few others are overreacting just a tad.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. there is a sad lack of sanity here...
being displayed by all those people who scream racism at the drop of a hat...this was most likely a mistake...but no, it HAS to be racism. just look at the people who are so appalled. it is shocking...and yes, i probably am overreacting; it pisses me off.

sP
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. I think it's just the same thing... overreacting.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 02:22 PM by redqueen
We all do it now and then... nothing to be ashamed of... so long as you can stop. :hi:

(Not "YOU" you... the person overreacting, I meant... the more general 'you'.)

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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. well, with a beer or two i could...
but one last overreaction if you please...

people on this thread who believe this just has to be racist...i guess this item on US shelves should have been caught for a whole different reason :

?w=500&h=667

</mode-overreact>

sP
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Indeed it should have...
but we are living out Idiocracy, it seems... :crazy:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. I bet you that doesn't happen. I bet people say far less about racism
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 02:42 PM by EFerrari
than they want to -- mostly so they won't have to deal with the deniers and their 20 grit sensitivity.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. let's just call racism/bigotry when it IS...
watering it down by screaming if from the rooftops (of the internet) doesn't serve anyone...

sP
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. The denial of racism is as old as white racism.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. well, i can see you think this is racism...
and if i saw what was likely racism...i would chime in with you...but i don't see it. looks like a mistake made by a chinese (or other) manufacturer that simply made it through the supply chain to the shelf. the fact that costco (which is a fairly liberal company as companies go) pulled the item should speak to that...

but people like you...you will claim racism/bigotry whenever you 'feel' it...and who does it serve? what cause does it serve? it serves nothing more than the thing you are trying to defeat.

sP
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. I posted what I think down thread. But your alacrity to assume what I think
and then to designate me "people like you" proves my point better than I could have. People don't comment about racism as often as they'd like to because what they will be treated to is prejudice and name calling. Voila.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. if I misread your intention then I am sorry...
but your posts in this subthread would probably lead most to believe that you were voicing a belief that this cry of racism in this thread was correct. or perhaps i am just thick...

sP
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. It's always funny when a small contingent of DU'ers need to prove how uber-liberal and UNracist
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 01:50 PM by KittyWampus
they are.

It's a "I'm not a racist" pissing match.

You must have missed the photo of the White, Black and Asian dolls with Pandas and the fact that there were also White (and Asian) dolls with the monkeys.

Since you are such a NONracist DU'er who not start an outrage thread over the Asian doll marketed with the Panda?
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. has the panda
been considered a cousin to the human? Much less evolved of course.
Your defense of this is ridiculous. You are only as certain about it not being racially fueled as anyone here claiming racism. But I guess you're the best "UNracist" because you're bold enough to defend something clearly and HISTORICALLY offensive to so many people. Bravo, you get the award.
Good grief.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
93. I think we established last year in a discussion of the term
"tar baby" that whites who grew up in areas with few blacks can be unaware of the full range of racial slurs. I can believe that some exec never made the connection, especially since it appears that there are several versions of this doll with other animals.

Costco is pulling this doll form the shelves now that it's been made aware of the problem. That's the main thing, IMO.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. holy shite...sanity... n/t
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
104. Monkeys have Caucasian skin! Sad day for racists. Wake up Amerikkka!
Shocking how Primatology bites people in the butt. Little wonder folks fork over so much for the promise of an afterlife and nothing for the reality of this life!

the skin of chimpanzees and gorillas beneath the hair is whiter than the average "Caucasian" skin, that the thin lips characteristic of "Caucasians" are actually closer in form to the lips of lower primates, that "high foreheads" can be seen in orangutans and some monkey species , and that the straight and relatively profuse body hair of Europeans is considerably more "ape-like" than the sparse, tightly curled body hair of "Ethiopians".

http://www.economicexpert.com/2a/Race.htm
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
111. Well, I don't think it was done on purpose, but someone wasn't paying
attention when these dolls hit the shelves.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. It looks like an outsourcing snafu but I bet some warehouse manager
is getting an earful for taking delivery. :)
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
113. Never should have made it to the shelves in the first place....wow, just wow...
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
115. Hello????
Some people are felony stupid. This is a great example.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
126. Seems Obama is changing things??
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
129. OMFG: The degree of paternalistic protectionism displayed...
...by some posters here is every bit as offensive as this doll was originally claimed to be.

  1. It (the doll) is part of a series of such dolls depicting the major skin tones of this planet and also a number of generic baby oriented animal motifs.
  2. Only in America is the specific combination of dark skin and monkey considered offensive. This says a lot more about America than it does about the manufacturer of these dolls (or Costco). And none of it is good.


Costco and the manufacturers missed a hugely profitable trick here. They should have sold these dolls naked (or perhaps dressed only in vest and diaper for modesty's sake, given that a naked doll would have sparked a whole 'nother bout of (mostly manufactured?) outrage) and a range of accessory sets. And the determined to be offended crowd could have saved their righteous ire for the kiddies (and/or parents) insensitive enough to mix-n-match black baby with monkey motif.

Manufactured outrage like this distracts from the very real racism of: profiling by police; segregation by neighbourhood (and provision of services to them); wage disparity; disparity in punishment/enforcemnt for equal crimes; disparity in punishment for crimes committed by one ethnicity on another; and any number of other outrageous and blatantly obvious examples of racism/bigotry/hatred of "the other".

A post about what soon was revealed to be an unfortunate and almost certainly unintended juxtaposition in a child's toy, has more traction here than any number of posts about real offenses committed against real people.

Indeed, over the years I've been here, i've noticed a rather sad commentary on the human condition. Given a nebulous, or generic target to hate, and a sympathetic forum, people of all stripes will vent their hatred with full force and en-mass. "All coppers are cunts.", "Gun owners are..."/"Gun haters are...", "Nuclear power is evil.", "God hates fags.", "Abortion/Birth control is evil", "Healthcare/welfare benefits the undeserving at the expense of the deserving". Any number of subjects where passions and personal feelings trump reality.

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rapturedbyrobots Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. right on.
for reference see:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/

i would add, however, that america is NOT the only place where 'monkey' is a derogatory term for dark skinned people. direct and institutional racism against africans happens all over europe and asia as well.
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