I've never met a left-wing business student...

[armyowalgreens]

The Daily Show did a short piece on this subject last night.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-12-2009/mba-ethics-oath



But I have a lot of experience dealing with business students. Most of them seem to be decent people. But they almost all fit the same right-wing libertarian philosophy.

I've also spoken with economics professors and there seems to be an obsession with right-wing schools of economics. The bottom line is that it's very hard to find a business or economics professor willing to teach their students about the benefits of socialism or even more regulated forms of Keynesian economics.

Do these programs attract the Madoffs of the world? Or are the programs breeding them?

[supernova]

1. I think the whole "business school" movement

over the past 20 years or so has been a reaction to the perceived control of colleges and universities by "lib'ruls"

So the business school became the libertarian/conservative enclave within all our universities.

It's not surprising all the selfish found each others.

[newtothegame]

7. I just finished my MBA and we covered sustainability, corporate responsibility, etc. VERY HEAVILY...

sometimes to the detriment of actually learning business basics like statistics, economics, marketing, accounting, etc.

[supernova]

20. I want to believe

that you aren't rare,

but I dunno.

[vi5]

2. What do you mean by business student?

If you mean those who study economics and finance, then yeah, the odds probably are in line with what you describe.

However, business school also means an MBA. My wife, brother, and sister in law are MBA's in marketing and I work with a ton of marketing MBA's all who went to business school and they are all fairly to very liberal.

[YOY]

3. Hi, I'm Rob. I go by YOY on DU.

I'm a liberal MBA.

And you are?

[armyowalgreens]

12. I'm Michael. I'm a poli sci/phillosophy undergrad...

Pleased to meet you Rob. You can by my first liberal MBA acquaintance.

[YOY]

22. Well, my major was International Relations in undergrad and I focused on Int. Project Management.

I went to a school that focuses on people with worldly viewpoints and not nationalistic wankers. Needless to say the MBA degree has some uses but there are a whole mess of wastes of skin who have them. Chest-puffers and silver platter careers all the way around. Trust me the bastards are real...and they're also a bunch of phonies...it would be nice to say we are all like that.

None-the-less, not all Lawyers chase ambulances or work in big partnerships...not all doctors are plastic surgeons who specialize in fixing people who aren't broken...and not all MBAs are assholes who think

I believe that capitalism and "free market" has it's place (and it DOES have a place)...and that it needs to have public oversight, legal culpability, personal responsibility, and governmental restrictions otherwise it will run rampant and destroy itself and harm others. I believe that long term slowly increasing profits are hands-down better than short-term gain. I believe developing new pills and medicine are not 'big business' unless you are looking for boner pills. (My personal philosophy:)If you cannot export it...then it's a parasitic industry and does a nation state more harm than good. I believe in investing in new technologies and keeping the workers strong, educated, and valuable. I beleive that if a company does not stand by it's business statement then it needs a fucking new one.

...it's what makes 'us' different from 'them'.

Well met Mike.

[Ignis]

17. But you're a rare beast, YOY.

Admit it, most of your classmates slept with a copies of Atlas Shrugged under their pillows!

ADMIT IT, DAMN YOU! :)

[YOY]

25. True story T.

Actually, I had a roommate in grad school who had more porn in his room than anyone I ever met. He asked me if I wanted to go 50%/50% on a hooker once...

:yoiks: <---the smiley says it all.

Seriously, as for Atlas Shrugged...just the Mormons...I think they have a special version.

[Ignis]

29. Did you ask him, "Top half or bottom?"

That story's more than just a little creepy, though.

[YOY]

32. He was more than a little creepy.

Turkish guy. Not a selfish bastard but had no idea of how to deal with woman on an equal level. Never seen a guy try so hard to get laid and get zilch. He had all the moves of a drunken pimp on acid. I can tell you some of the lines he used when talking to single women.

The best one was "Hey. you look like a cowgirl..."

[WCGreen]

4. I was a poli-sci major taking the required classes for my CPA...

It was like night and day in the way the students reacted to the professors in each of the colleges.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. how so?

[WCGreen]

19. The folks in the Business school were all about...

Is this on the test?

They barely ever asked questions. In fact most of the prof's were glad to have me in their class because I asked questions.

Only in Finance class were people engaged,

[HamdenRice]

5. The guy Obama appointed as car czar (Ron Bloom) was/is a left wing MBA

It's a really interesting story. He was a left wing MBA student at Harvard. Then he joined the United Steel Workers union to help them understand the economics of their collective bargaining. His union leaders suggested he do a stint at Lazard, one of the most liberal investment banks in NYC (Felix Rohatyn, one of the partners, used to write lots of liberal economic analysis for the NY Review of Books). Then he created a boutique investment firm that specialized in employee owned corporations and buyouts.

Now he's the car czar, running GM et al on behalf of the UAW.

Google "Ron Bloom." He's a very, very interesting character.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880228,00.html

[Cant trust em]

6. Similarly, I don't know many right wing MSW students.

That being said, I do know one liberal MBA student.

[RedCloud]

9. Free market blahblahzoo just means they won't pay taxes!

[Quantess]

10. I know someone with a 4 year business degree who is very liberal.

[county worker]

11. I was a left wing business student.

We had quite a few in my classes. That was in the late 70's. I knew the prejudice against business students in my school by the science community. That was because a lot of business students felt that the requirement that they take science classes was wasting their time.

On our final exam for a geology class I took the prof asked what importance to us was his class. I knew what he was fishing for so I answered that business students needed to have a more rounded education so that their business decisions would not only be based on the profit motive. I got an A in that class!

[Taverner]

13. I know a bunch

Some as far left as Lenin himself...

Some are Blue Dogs...

But they do exist

[Call Me Wesley]

14. Funny you said that,

before I moved on to other shores education-wise, Karl Marx was the reason for me to go into economics, and I wasn't alone. :hi:

[armyowalgreens]

15. Well see I'm the same kind of person...

But I really don't want to waste my time with econ classes if all I am taught is Reaganomics.


I've always been interested in Marxism.

[Call Me Wesley]

18. I'm glad you're the same kind of person.

I had a good professor back then, Holocaust survivor and Trotskyte (this was a time when the IV. International still had some credibility and a few of the greatest intellectuals minds in its ranks, like Ernest Mandel.)

And just thinking of him, here's a good start to begin with, before you even indulge in Marx's writings:
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Marxist-Economic-Theory/dp/0873483154/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250193593&sr=8-1

Of course, you need to read Keynes, Samuelson, Galbraith, Miller, etc., too.

[HughBeaumont]

23. This is what frightens me about getting a masters.

I don't want to sit in a class that teaches the greatness of Saint Milton Friedman when it's so painfully obvious and factual that everywhere his economic policies have been tried since the 60s, it resulted in abject failure, corporatization, gutting of social services, massive debt, wealth inequality and financial ruin for 90% of the country's population. I don't want to be lying to myself and spouting the "correctness" of Reaganite crapola on 20 page papers. It'd just be bullshitting for a "B". Plus you'd have to give presentations to a class of Paulites/inshored students indoctrinated on Friedman and you'd be injecting some kind of laissez-fail bullshit as if it were the gospel.

[BlooInBloo]

16. I know lots of them. Not nearly as many as republicans, though...

The bigger issue is that they're typically not very bright. (Finance focus ones excepted, of course.)

[SeeHopeWin]

21. I am a hard leftist MBA, love capitalism, don't mind paying my share of taxes to help everyone else.

[Romulox]

26. I don't think you understand at least one of the two terms you've used:

"Hard leftist" and "love capitalism" are only compatible if you ignore the common meaning of the terms.

[YOY]

33. The key to functional and successful capitalism is knowing where it belongs and where it doesn't.

and there is a whole lot of where it doesn't here in the US of A.

For a good example of where it does , take a look at Finnland and Sweden. Nokia, Ikea, Volvo, Saab-Scania...all examples of where it does.

For an example of where it doesn't: Eli Lilly, Cargill, and every fucking health insurance company on the planet.

[Romulox]

39. Right, but the darwinian nature of capitalism dictates the most aggressive

will eventually dominate.

Moreover, the success of the Scandinavian model is largely fueled by a socialist distribution of oil exports, rather than some special "balanced" form of capitalism.

[SeeHopeWin]

43. There is no oil in Sweden

[Romulox]

46. There's a great deal of oil in "Scandinavia", which I what I mentioned.

I didn't mention Sweden specifically.

[YOY]

44. I always saw it as so highly regulated that it had to be a "balanced"

Now the socialist distrubution of oil exports...I need some reading on that. Got any?

FAscinating that you take in the Corporations as creatures in a Darwinian struggle. I use that model a lot. But this biome where they live is more or less under our control Do we genetically engineer Ameoba's that eat themselves to death or do we create allow the amoebas to evolve and change to suit our needs and improve our lives? They tend to develop tech improvements. If there is no competition among those industries you see slower technical advancement. You either control them or they eat you out of house and home.

[Romulox]

45. The present healthcare "debate" proves that this "biome" is NOT under our control whatsoever.

As does the obscene, guild-age like concentration of wealth in this country and others.

[YOY]

48. Indeed it isn't. Hard enforced regulation and massive taxation on the top tiers in my remedy.

Yours?

[Romulox]

49. No, that's not a *remedy*, it's a *goal*. You have to describe how we get from here to there.

in order to qualify as a "remedy", you have to describe how we wrench power away from the multinational corporations which self-evidently run our country.

"Yours?"

A beneficent dictatorship, with a state run economy that is both efficient and equitable, is the obviously the best solution. I'm just having a little trouble figuring out how we locate the perfect dictator...

Do you see the similarity between my position and yours?

[YOY]

50. I assume you're joking.

Not about the MNCs that are the key problem, but about the dictatorship.

[Romulox]

51. *whooosh* nt

[YOY]

52. Yeah...I'm sarcasm impared.

I fully admit it. I'm of those that need the smiley.

People say apeshit things on the internet.

[Romulox]

53. The chances of me locating the "perfect dictator" are the same as those of you

convincing the entities that buy and sell our politicians to voluntarily relinquish power. In other words, both are idle fantasies, unless you can provide some concrete method of achieving these goals.

And no, I'm not kidding. It was a common theory from the Enlightenment era that a "benevolent dictatorship" would be the best theoretical form of government. The problems being several: first, how to identify a suitably wise and omniscient person to serve as leader; second, how to make people obey the glorious leader; finally, how to prevent such a person from succumbing to corruption? The answer is that these problems are probably insurmountable, but if such a wise, omniscient, incorruptable individual be found, I will gladly fall in line!

This is the parallel I am drawing between my position and yours--they are both unrealistic as anything other than statements of principle. Incidentally, there was no sarcasm involved with my post. :shrug:

[YOY]

54. If were talking theoretical sure. Theoretically Libertarians make sense too.

It's just in practice...you know like I do that things don't work that way. Big Business takes unfair control and greed turns everything dangerous to life on this planet as we know it. Dictators are seldom benevolent in every way needed (and seldom stay benevolent if they start out that way...absolute power yadda yadda yadda...)

In practice the best form of government that I have seen is a highly diverse parliamentary system that allows even the farthest of wings representation and forces coalitions and discourse.

It has problems of scale though...never seen it really work well in large scale. Maybe I am not looking in the right area. It would never happen here.

As to how to get rid of the MNCs' massive control...well I am as puzzled as most folks. Whereas I don't feel that they need to be destroyed (as many do) I do feel that they need to be controlled and limited. How to do that is all hypothetical.

[stranger81]

57. Take away corporate legal status as "persons."

They use it as both a sword and a shield, embracing it when it helps them (corporate "free speech," for instance), and rejecting it when it would hurt them (e.g., differential tax rates, criminal liability, etc.). It's a farce that should have been done away with long ago.

[SeeHopeWin]

42. I have family in Sweden, we go there every summer...I watch them do it

over and over...If you want to build wealth, start your business, grow your company to be the biggest baddest...etc. You can in Sweden. Yet, they may be the most socialist country in the world.

I love Sweden and its people.

[SeeHopeWin]

38. Understood...But I really am......

It works for me :)

[TNDemo]

24. I was one.

Many years ago.

[Romulox]

27. Capitalism is social darwinism. It's not compatible with being "left wing"

the attempt to reconcile the two is a self-serving, self-delusional endeavor. Furthermore, believing that the "invisible hand" of the market best sets human priorities is precisely as rational as believing that the flying spaghetti monster guides your life.

[conscious evolution]

28. My sister is a liberal

She has an MBA and a CFA certification.
She told me the CEO of the financial services company she worked for was a liberal also.
I would rather not name the company but I have noticed that they are not embroiled in any of the bankster mess on wall street.Seems to me that is a pretty good indicator of how the outlook of mangement can make a differance in how ethically a company operates.

[Rebel Scum]

30. When I was in college in the early 80's....

left wing business student was an oxymoron.

[cbdo2007]

31. What are the benefits of socialism from your business or economics perspective?

[armyowalgreens]

34. Stable markets, takes vital industry/services out of the hands of private interests...

etc...

[cbdo2007]

36. So how is this relevant to non-vital industry/services?

[armyowalgreens]

Do you mean how will this benefit the private sector?

[YOY]

40. Ask Ikea. Volvo. Nokia. GRanted most of what's going on now is hardly "Socialism" by a stretch.

Public protection from corporations prevents destructive long term PR degredations and helps "keep 'em honest" in terms of making sure QC is kept up and unsafe products out of the market.

Government assisted technology investments (such as those done with the Semiconductor back in the day) saves on R&D and can give a healthy advantage over foreign competition.

Protected unions mean happier employees. Less liquidity and disloyal behavior.

Government fiscal regulation can prevent massive attempts to harvest on a boom market in short-term, high risk, high return gambits...ala the housing bubble bursting. It wouldn't have been built if it were normal stable growth.

And most of that is hardly "socialism" but sound economic policy.

If social democracies were a "fail" there would be no Ikea, Nokia, or Volvo.

[liberalpragmatist]

35. I know lots of progressive economists

Actually, economists as a whole tend to be center-left in their political orientations and tend to support Democrats. The major divide is between macroeconomists and microeconomists - most microeconomists tend to be more Republican-leaning and more libertarian in their economic thinking. Macroeconomists are generally more focused on large-scale failings of the market and are more progressive.

Granted, you won't find many economists who are as left-wing as DU'ers - but I'd describe the orientation of most economists as center-left.

[kgnu_fan]

37. I heard an economics professor Joel Magnuson of Portland Oregon

at our local business event and I was impressed. I realized that we need more of good economic professors to teach students about wholesome business training in this country. I learned that the current "mainstream economics theory" used to be in a fringe but came into the American center stage not so long ago. As Naomi Kline writes, there are so much more possibilities in how we conduct our businesses, and we all should insert potential and imagination into this field of study.

Professors of more objective economics school of thoughts may have been willfully pushed out of our universities and colleges system. We need to look around. Magnuson's book "Mindful Economics - How the U.S. Economy Works, Why It Matters, And How It Could be Different" is a good college text book and has been very helpful to me for understanding the interconnectedness of businesses, environment, political system etc.

When we understand about roles of Households, Corporations, the Market System, Labor Unions and Business Associations etc, for example, in our local economy and in the world economy, we may be able to recognize our choices and have practical discussions about long term benefit of a certain business practice, instead of just thinking about immediate profit and maximum return on investment. Magnuson's next public speaking engagement is in New York. FYI.

Union for Radical Political Economics

Summer Conference, August 15-18, 2009
Economic Crises: Opportunities for Radical Change
“Mindful Economics Presentation”
Camp Deer Run, Pine Bush, NY

http://www.mindfuleconomics.com/mindful_economics.html

[W_HAMILTON]

41. Nice to meet you!

I'm a senior majoring in accounting, and very left-wing. Rather than work for the Enron's of the world, I want to work in the public sector to catch the next Enron.

Outside of them always referring to conservatism when it comes to accounting principles, most of my professors haven't really made many political statements. There's been a few jabs here and there, though. There haven't been many, but all of them have been from right-wing professors.

There was this one African American girl in one of my accounting classes that wore a t-shirt that had a Reagan quote, something along the lines of "Republicans celebrate the 4th of July, Democrats celebrate April 15th." I was a little surprised by that. Maybe many of them are brainwashed? I'm not sure, I don't talk politics much with any of them.

[taught_me_patience]

47. I'm graduating with an MBA in a couple of months

I think you're succumbing to stereotypes on this one. There are plenty of liberal business students.

[Echo In Light]

55. There's a recent doc film on SF author/journalist, Harlan Ellison ...

Called Dreams With Sharp Teeth. He talks about how there used to be this fantastic energy within the social climate of college campus' from the mid 60s to the mid 70s, but then it all changed...for the worse.

[LanternWaste]

56. The majority of the MBA's I work with are progressives.

The vast majority of the MBA's I work with are progressives. I imagine as in all political, social, religious and economic philosophies, an MBA's political orientation is dependent on location, specific types of educations, the way one is brought up, the way one perceives the world around us, the people we know, and an entire host of personal experiences.

Possibly the majority of students may be leaning libertarian, but once after graduation and into the workplace, I would hazard that all bets are off as the new, post-college life brings new questions and difficult answers, resulting in compromises and emotional, spiritual, and mental paradigm shifts.