My Dad and Mom Died

[placton]

30 years apart. One of the biggest differences between the 2 events (other than 30 years) was Hospice. For those younger DUers who believe (like I did at your ages) they will live forever, realize what is being done to you.

End of life counseling is one of the most tender, loving, and difficult of tasks. It helped my mom - and millions of others - to deal with the REAL issues: property distribution, what kind of care & arrangements they wanted when they were LUCID, saying goodbyes and making amends.

I suggest you write your congressman - hopefully a Democrat - and suggest that s/he re-insert the health care bill "end of life counseling provision" the Senate may be attempting to take out. This is something that will affect all our moms and dads and - yes kids, even you.

I have no idea of what the final health care bill will be. I am told to "shut up" here often and vehemently - as I try to point out what is happening (just like I did with Bush). To that end, and to encourage rational discussion, I am requesting replies that indicate what you think about what you think about 3 issues:

1. What SHOULD the reform have in it (ie single payer, public option, co-ops etc)?

2. What WILL the reform have in it?

3. What would you be willing to give up, if YOU were voting on a bill, if a Dem from your home state?

[Rick Myers]

1. I had hospise for my dad...

Made a world of difference...

[placton]

2. yes - I saw it too

this is the type of counseling that makes a difference in people's lives - a REAL pro-life position.

[PunkinPi]

9. I wholeheartedly agree...

went through the same experience with my dad before he passed, if not for hospice, not sure what we would have done.

It really sickens me to see so many misinformed individuals.

[wtbymark]

3. what would I give up? Nothing, they lost, get over it, sit down and STFU

This has been brought to you by someone who's had enough of their shit. :P

[placton]

5. I am glad to see your answer

to 1 of my 3 Qs - can you answer the other 2?

[wtbymark]

14. ok, to 1 - single-payer, to 2 - i expect nothing

[angstlessk]

4. ain't the repuglicans just to be waifted up to heaven..no need for end of life

counseling they will just be raptured?

[FLDem09]

6. What's the big deal with endof life/ advance directives anyway??

We had hospice as well when my grandfather passed. They were a God send. Very compassionate, and they really helped us(the fam) out with grief counseling before and after.

However as far as the end of life counseling, it is already being offered to people, so I don't really understand the outrage over it. In fact law dictates that with in 24 hours of admission to a healthcare facility ALL Patients must have been informed/given the option of advanced directives and are required to sign a paper stating that they were given th eoption to discuss them. If a PT refuses to sign the paper then the Doctors can refuse treatment.

IMO this boogie man has no teeth, unless however the end of life counseling is in any way "coersive"

[placton]

7. so true and worse

taking it out shows weakness in the face of lies and outright nuttiness. Are we gonna blow the (literally) chance of a lifetime?

[pipi_k]

11. Listening to the news either yesterday or today, that's exactly

how it was put...

that the people opposing end of life counseling fear that it "will become coercive"

Like some evil doctor is going to tie them up and force them to turn over all their worldly possessions to him, and then shoot them full of rat poison....muwahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

sigh... :eyes:

I think if they would only calm down a little and LISTEN to what it entails, they'd feel a whole lot better.

We had hospice too, when my MIL passed away here.

She and her husband had already written out their living wills and "DNR" directives years before, thank goodness...

It was because of those documents that we were able to get hospice here...otherwise things would have been awful. :(

[malaise]

13. What if the patient arrives at the hospital in a state where

he/she can't sign anything? Who decides what should be done?

[FLDem09]

17. The Docs are required to assume that the PT would want to live

in the case that an advance directive/DNR was not at hand, and are required to use all prudent methods to try to save them. Then if the person was found not to have had any evidence of an advance directive then I guess we'd all get another Schivoesque drama.

I do think that once a person has made their advance directives known then they shouldn't be bothered about it any longer. That is a personal decision and IMO it would be quite alarming if I were to have my intimate medical desires continually questioned as my health status changed. The whole point of advanced directives is to imagine worse case scenarios and develop a plan that will deal with them as they arise.

Continuing to question someones decision could be construed as trying to coerce or exert pressure for some one to change their plans.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Getting old folks on board with health reform is a bigger issue.

[placton]

10. just an observation

I wrote this post to be as neutral as possible - after months of being told to shut up. I wondered if the folks who followed my more "negative" posts (on this and other issues) would take the time to actually argue their views, or at the very least - state them.

So far, crickets chirping. I begin to suspect the real disruptors here are not folks who ask hard questions - but those who choose not to answer.

And my sincere thanks to those who are.

[xchrom]

12. there really is only one way to reform healthcare --

and that's single, payer, unversal healthcare, socialized medicine -- what ever you want to call it.

leaving the insurance companies in the food chain AT ALL simply means they get an option they have had an opportunity to write, and to regulate. -- and what is good for them as corporations is not good for joe and joe ellen six pak.

that's the deal -- it's too bad it's gotten like that -- but there it is.

healthcare reform as it is now will be a crippled, misshapen mess -- and when as a result we hand an election cycle back to the republicans -- well Katy bar the door.

[EFerrari]

15. You're so right. This will all be too late for me and my mom

but, we need it for our people.

[rucky]

16. 1. Single Payer

2. Toothless "insurance reform" (no public option, or weak public option)
3. I would prefer single payer, but understand that a strong public option is what has the best chance of passing - as long as it still serves the uninsured and private-plan payers.

I agree that the counseling is really important. Doctors do it anyway - good ones, at least. They just don't have a way to bill for it, which is what this section of the bill provides.

[gleaner]

18. I support ...

end of life counseling. I support advanced directives, too. My husband and I both have them. They spell out our wishes, and enabled me to make decisions for him that he needed when he was not able to do it for himself during a long hospitalization last year. I had the advanced directive for my mother too, and was able to get her the help that she needed near the end of her life in 2004, even though I had to pay for it. We were able to discuss her illness and she got the comfort she needed as she neared her death. I have contacted my congressman to make my views known, and he is a Democrat who already agrees.

Now, to answer your questions.

1. I favor a single payer plan. I have medicare, which does more for me than my husband's private insurance did for him. Single payer would be easily put in operation by superimposing it as a template over medicare, adding a viable prescription plan and removing the Bush atrocity, and charging everyone on a sliding scale based on their ability to pay. It would also break the stranglehold that the for profit health insurance has on our medical needs.

2. I don't know what the reform will have in it. Issues are flying back and forth so quickly and there are so many rumors and so much noise that it is difficult to predict.

3. I wouldn't be willing to give up anything. The Democrats have tried practicing bi partisanship since the President first took office, with no results except a lot of contempt and a lot of noise and attempts to bully. Bullies should not be rewarded or included in this process since they have tried so hard to destroy it and terrify people who are desperate because of the costs of existing health care and their inability to exist within the current system.

[Historic NY]

19. I went through this with my 92 yr old Uncle who lived with me. You

are 100% right about Hospice, those unsung heros. I brought my uncle home to the house he bought 51 ys before. The Hospice facility was still being built. I've had a lot of problems with his estate since his death in 04 because of stupid mistakes his lawyer made. The counseling I recieved did prompt me to move his money to one bank, with power of attorney he assigned. When the time comes people are just not thinking right, your running on impulse power and things you should know slip by. I was just able to get his last SS ck. signed & cashed to pay a few expenses. No one here really knows until they experience it. If your parent, spouse or siginificant other is alive you have a chance to review their wishes, will, etc. Who here would think about it when the Dr. tells you they are not going to survive? I was fortunate to be able to understand what he really wanted in his will, even thou it cost me a lot of money to fix. I was just told yesterday after 4 freaking years the greedy lawyers finally will allow me to cut checks to those he designated...sadly his 2 sisters died and his surviving brother wouldn't even know.

Talk to people before you think pulling plug on end of life counseling..there are thousands of stories out there.