A Milestone for Women in Sports

[paulsby]

On august 15, gina carano will face chris cyborg.

this is the first time that two women will headline a major MMA card.

also, consider that there are few sports more historically and conventionally "masculine" than hand to hand combat.

i give huge props to carano for being such a remarkable athlete and i will also note (like it needs to be noted) that she is one of the most beautiful women i have ever seen.

maxim mag ranked her as 16 in the their "hot 100 list"

i'm a competitive athlete myself and work with some phenomenal female athletes (including a former olympian), and women like carano will be an inspiration for the up and coming generation of women athletes, especially in the strength and combat sports.

it would be interesting to see how well carano would do against a man, frankly.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Not a fan of mma, but a lot of folks are. Good for them....

And no, it wouldn't be interesting to see how she would do. The biology just isn't there, pound-for-pound - unless the guy is drastically unqualified to be there in the first place to make up for it.

[paulsby]

3. strength is not the be-all and end-all in combat sports

i personally compete in strength sports. in strength sports (and speed sports ) women are obviously not as good as men, and strength (limit strength, speed-strength, etc.) is exceptionally important.

but the difference is not as extreme as many may think. i've trained with a 145 lb woman who squats 400 lbs and deadlifts 335 for reps.

combat sports are weight classed of course. a 155 lb male fighter is going to get his ass kicked by an equally talented 225 lb fighter quite frequently. that's a given.

i'm not saying she could beat the best men in her weight range.

i am saying that the only way to know where she ranks in absolute terms is to fight men, since otherwise, you can never really know.

for example, this differs from track and field or strength sports where pure #'s tell the story. iow, i can look at marion jones 100m times and know exactly where she would fit in amongst both male and female athletes. ditto for a woman who weights 56 kilos and cleans and jerks 105 kilos.

but with combat sports, we can only truly make a comparison if they fight others.

i'd be interested. i have little doubt she'd get creamed by jens pulver or somebody at his level, but my point is i'd be curious to know how good she really is.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Good thing I didn't say it was...

And I know we're talking same weight class. That's why I said "pound for pound".

I agree it isn't known to 100% absolute dead certainty with no theoretical possibility of being wrong that she would get creamed. That's a rather high bar, which I certainly wouldn't - and didn't - try to hurdle.

[paulsby]

5. i think we agree

a 155 lb woman, for example is weaker and slower than a 155 lb man . that's both on average, and at the tails of the curve (iow however many standard deviations we get from the norm, men will still be better).

of this there is no doubt.

women can be as good as men in some sports. heck, there are even a few sports they are better at. distance swimming in cold water is an example. women are actually better at long distance cold water swims. they are more efficient swimmers, and when the thermic aspects are also considered, it gives them an edge.

regardless, i'd just like to see how good she REALLY is. i KNOW how good my fellow female strength athletes are. that's because we play in a sport of #'s, where there is no equivocation whatsoever.

but in fighting, in any ONE fight, anybody has a "punchers chance". even a lame fighter can beat the best in the world on occasion with a really lucky shot.

but if she fought (like let's say n=10) men at the same weight class and of various skill levels, it would at least give us some impression of how good they are (women). i saw a recent sports science episode where they tested lbs of force in an elite woman boxers punch, and it was actually pretty impressive.

women do have one advantage over men in several sports, to include MMA, and that's flexibility. on average, they have better joint flexibility, and flexibility is very useful for many jiu jitsu and wrestling techniques.

[BlooInBloo]

8. I'm thinking she'd get clocked harder than she ever imagined getting clocked...

1 or more times, then tap out (perfectly reasonable).

Rather like back-in-the-day George Foreman hitting damn near anybody. The anybody might be by-the-numbers "more skilled" or whatever ever, but it's very, very hard to be "more skilled" *enough* to make a difference in the end result.

Naturally that example also shows that while it's hard to overcome that particular deficit, it's not impossible.

[paulsby]

10. my wife is a kickboxer

she can hit pretty damn hard.

she actually told me that before she got married she vowed to never marry a person, if she thought she could kick that person's ass.

lol

[BlooInBloo]

11. lolz!

[flvegan]

2. "Interesting" to see a man pound the hell out of a woman for money.

Or vice versa if he's way out of his league..

Gotta be kidding me.

[paulsby]

6. why not?

are you so sexist as to say it's ok for two men to punch the crap out of each other in a CONSENSUAL sports event.

or two women.

but NOT a man and a woman? why not? this isn't domestic violence. this isn't assault. this is a consensual battle between two athletes.

that's the truly progressive stance. treating men and women the same. not ghettoizing women and saying it's ok for you to punch other women in a fight, but NOT men.

[flvegan]

7. Actually

I don't believe in violence, so I don't "say it's ok" for anyone to punch the crap out of each other for any reason.

THAT is progressive.

Your gotcha? FAIL.

[paulsby]

9. that's fine.

i can respect that position. i disagree with it, but it doesn't demean women or men.

i believe in combat sports. i think they are great sport and reveal character.

[TorchTheWitch]

12. what is MMA?

I have not a single clue what sport this is.

[USA_1]

13. mixed martial arts

not my cup of tea but it's occasionally entertaining

[NashVegas]

14. Desperate Marketing

I guess the original model wasn't quite cutting it.

[paulsby]

15. dumbest thing i've heard in a while

mixed martial arts have been phenomenally successful financially. everybody from ESPN mag to Forbes has covered this

it doesn't therefore follow that they can't and shouldn't continue to innovate and expand. that's how the market works