My Cash for Clunkers experience (and questions about the Ford Mariner Hybrid)

[motorcity]

I have been interested in buying the Ford Fusion Hybrid for a couple of months now. For the last two weeks I have been trying to find a dealer that is participating in cash for clunkers, will accept the x-plan, and has a Fusion Hybrid that isn't loaded with expensive features I don't want. After searching for a vehicle within 500 miles from my town, I am about ready to give up. Some dealers will flat out admit that the high demand for Fusion Hybrids, and low supply thanks to Cash for Clunkers, means they will only sell them to people willing to buy dealer added features like paint protection or remote start. And some dealerships will take the x-plan on everything BUT the Fusion Hybrid because of the demand. CFC is helping to clear their lots, and some dealers want to make sure they milk every last dollar out of buyers I guess. The whole experience has been pretty disappointing to say the least.

The only other vehicle that is interesting to me is the Ford Mariner Hybrid. The mileage isn't what I would prefer, but I could use the 4 wheel drive and cargo space. The only thing I don't like about the Fusion Hybrid is the lack of cargo space and 2 wheel drive. I have never had two wheel drive in the snow up here, so I don't know how bad it will be.

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences with the Mariner Hybrid?

[RDANGELO]

1. On the four wheel drive

As long as it is front wheel drive, you should be ok.

[motorcity]

2. That's what I have heard. Is there an advatage to rear wheel drive?

It sounds like a pain in the butt. The Fusion has front wheel drive.

[comtec]

4. FWD or 4WD gives you superior control

rear wheel gives more power.

Top gear did a show on this. They took rear wheel cars to a snow-driving event and lost badly.

Front wheel drives is superior for control - which is what NORMAL human being need!

[MindPilot]

10. FWD is Front Wheel Drive -- standard on the Escape / Mariner

The other option is AWD or All Wheel Drive -- more expensive and less economical, and probably completely unnecessary unless you actually do real off-roading.

[EOTE]

19. RWD can be superior in terms of control too, it depends on what type of control you're talking about

RWD has a couple of benefits. The first is that RWD cars tend to have better weight distribution. If you look at any car that has close to 50/50 front to rear weight distribution and chances are that it will be rear wheel drive. Take a look at any Mercedes Benz or BMW and if it's not AWD (or 4WD in the case of some larger MB SUVs), it's going to be RWD. The second big benefit of RWD is that RWD cars don't require the front wheels to perform the double duty of steering and powering the car as FWD/AWD/4WD cars do. Steering with the same wheels that propel the car causes a lot of undesired attributes like torque steer and understeer. Torque steer is when the steering wheel is pulled to the left or right during acceleration and can be a big PITA, especially in more powerful FWD cars. Understeer is found in the bulk of FWD and AWD cars and causes the car to steer less than desired when cornering aggressively. RWD cars can suffer from the opposite of understeer which is known as oversteer (steering more than your intended line), but the great bulk of RWD cars today have very neutral handling, something that can't be said about any FWD car today. Many will argue that FWD cars still perform better than RWD cars in poor weather conditions and other low traction situations, but with the advances that have been made to modern RWD traction systems in recent years, I'd pretty much always go with RWD over FWD. I've driven a number of FWD, RWD and AWD cars over the years and I've found that RWD is almost always preferable. Granted, there are some really advanced AWD systems that provide the best of all worlds, but those are typically found in fairly expensive vehicles like the BMW 3 and 5 series and the Infiniti G class. Unfortunately, there aren't many cheap RWD cars either, but when you compare cars in similar classes, like the Acura TL compared to the BMW 3 series or the G35/G37, the RWD car will always come out on top.

[comtec]

3. I would suggest calling your rep

and having someone in their office call the dealer of your choice and reminding them that the point is to get bad cars off the road, NOT to line their pockets with every penny they can.

Then maybe they'll be more willing to get you a car that YOU want, not the car THEY want to sell you.

Also My dad's gone as far as 3 states to get a car he wanted (he had the dealer bring it, because that was the only model like what he wanted)

Also remind the dealer that you will go buy another brand - maybe a toyota - if he isn't willing to work with you?

Just my 2 cents :)

Good luck!

[DainBramaged]

5. I guess dealer's making more than a couple of hundred dollars on an expensive

car is considered milking?


Me me me, and none for anyone else. Shameful.

[motorcity]

12. I guess

I am not one of those types who think it is ok for gas stations to raise their rates after 9-11, for stores to raise their rates on flashlights and water during blackouts, etc. You are free to think such practices are great, and I won't even call you "shameful."

[DainBramaged]

15. Maybe you should work on my side of the fence some day

$30,000+ cars sold for a net of $250 because scumbags sell the price lists to Consumer Reports and other on line services. I bet you wouldn't play the same game in the supermarket over bread or milk.


I still think it's shameful that a fair profit for a days work is considered milking.

[skipos]

23. Yes, it is shamefull

for the dealerships. They are making an insane amount of money because of C.F.C. yet some of them will refuse to sell a car to you if you don't buy extras. If you go to certain "me me me" dealers, the same car that was $22,000 two weeks ago is now going to cost you $22,000 + $1000 in dealership bullshit you don't want. Why? Because our tax dollars have given them record breaking sales, and they think they have you by the nuts.

The good thing is, only a few of the dealerships I have talked to are trying to pull these shenanigans. C.F.C. isn't a great deal for my clunker, so I might just wait until dealerships are back to doing their usual dismal business.

[DainBramaged]

24. What percentage is $1000 of $22,000? And you consider that an insane amount of money?

Know what the markup is on your food? Clothing? Electronics? Household products? Shoes? Cosmetics? Right now General Motors has basically given such low pricing to the customer that there is ZERO profit in the car, none. The pricing is behind tissue. And tissue is $825 above bare cost before advertising and is held back so the dealer can make a few bucks on the front end. There is zero percentage financing, so no profit there. Know what our people get for selling a new car? $35 in commission. That's it.

I guess EVERYONE, beloved Toyota, Nissan and Honda too, losing money is just a fairy tail?

Keep living in your dream world. Glad you didn't show up in our showroom.

[question everything]

6. I don't have the answer, but why would anyone give you a "U"?

Why the meanness on these pages to just throw a U for really no good reason? Except that someone dislikes you personally or just to get the bile out of one's system? Which, I suppose, is better than fighting with one's spouse - if one is married - or kicking the dog.

Oh, I canceled it.

[bighart]

7. It's a Mercury.

Ford makes the Fusion, Mercury makes the Mariner.

[EOTE]

20. Then there's the Escape, which is the Ford version of the Mariner.

Same vehicles, just different badging.

[MindPilot]

8. Funny you should ask

I have an appointment at my local Ford dealer this morning to check out an Escape Hybrid. Check out the official website -- www.cars.gov -- it lays out very clearly all the do's & don't's for the dealers. I think they also have a number to call for specific questions.

If they don't have what I want on the lot I will see if I can special order it. I will let you know what I find out.

[Staph]

9. I can't speak to Cash for Clunkers...

but I bought a Fusion Hybrid at the end of May. I love it!

It drives like a dream, with plenty of acceleration when you need it. It's comfortable for long trips. I get loads of comments from strangers. The only downside is, as you mentioned, the somewhat limited trunk space. I'm averaging 38 mpg after 2500 miles.

[MindPilot]

11. Here's what Comsumer Reports had to say:

Even though they panned it a bit in the road test, (these guys could find shit wrong with a Rolls Royce) it is still "Check-rated" & "Recommended". They give it average predicted reliability and above average owner satisfaction.


The Mariner Hybrid is the stingiest SUV we've tested (26 mpg overall). Like its near twin, the Ford Escape, the Mariner dates back to 2001. As a result, it shows its age in lack of agility, noisiness, and an unsettled ride. Interior fit and finish is improved but remains lackluster. At over $36,0000 with a navigation system, it's very pricey. Virtues include a lot of interior room, easy access, and good visibility.
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE
The Mariner Hybrid doesn't handle rough pavement well. Road bumps resonate through the chassis as stiff impacts and shudders. The highway ride is a bit floaty. Wind and road, noise are constant companions. The engine remains vocal, but less so than in the 2005 model we tested.
The Hybrid's handling feels looser than the non-hybrid Escape and is not tied down enough in bumpy corners. The electrically powered steering feels light and is short on feedback. Body lean isn't excessive, but it builds up quickly as cornering speed increases. The electronic stability control provided ultimate security at the limits, allowing the Mariner to post a decent speed through our avoidance maneuver. However, so-so tire grip, pronounced body roll, and early understeer sapped confidence in the maneuver.

The 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine combines with the electric motor to attain 177 hp. Together they delivered just average performance -- a little slower than the conventional four-cylinder model -- but did return a very respectable 26 mpg using regular fuel. The Hybrid can propel itself on electric power alone up to about 25 mph on light throttle. Recharging comes from the gasoline engine and from regenerative braking. The engine shuts down at idle and restarts instantly and seamlessly when you resume.

For comparison, the non-hybrid's 171-hp, 2.5-liter, four-cylinder engine chalked up 21 mpg overall on regular fuel. The zesty 240-hp, 3.0-liter V6 returns 19 mpg.

The Hybrid's CVT transmission is very smooth and much better than its predecessor. Stops were a little long in our braking tests. The halogen headlights provided good low-beam intensity with sufficient reach and width; high beams reach farther and are brighter.

INSIDE THE CABIN
The interior is trimmed with nicely grained but hard plastics. Exposed screws, cheap-feeling switchgear, and large gaps between panels do not impress, however.
There is plenty of head, knee, and foot room, but some of our drivers wished the steering wheel would telescope as well as tilt. Big windows and thin roof pillars aid visibility to the front and the sides, but big rear seat head restraints block the view out back.

The leather seats are firm and well-shaped with good lateral and lower-back support; they're more comfortable than the cloth seats. The Mariner has a lumbar adjustment that Escapes lack. Taller drivers wished the cushions were longer. A power recline adjustment would be preferable to the manual-only adjustment. The rear bench is comfortable and roomy enough to accommodate three adults with only light side-to-side contact. The nicely sculpted seat's cushion is high and tipped up in front to provide thigh support. Access is easy with large front doors and a low floor.

Controls are mostly simple but wispy, stylized numerals on the gauges can be hard to read. The climate and radio controls consist of many similar-looking black buttons clustered tightly together. The optional navigation system has a touch screen, but it's mounted low on the dash, making the tiny lettering hard to read. On-screen "buttons" are also tiny, making them hard to accurately press. It's easier to master the voice-command system and use that to help coax out the many navigation features, including movie listings and gas prices. The optional SYNC system works well, providing hands-free control for MP3 players and cell phones.

Cabin storage is moderate and includes a large center-console storage compartment. Cargo volume is quite good, and the bay can be accessed by lifting either the entire gate or just the top glass. You can maximize space by folding down the back seat and removing its cushions, an easy tool-free process.

[Statistical]

13. Maybe this will help....

Ford raises output as "clunker" sales surge
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE57C33G20090813?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews

[merh]

14. I just read an article that says you can order the car you want and use a voucher.

On Thursday, the Obama administration said it would allow car shoppers to order new vehicles that dealers don't have in stock using a voucher. This will allow consumers to take advantage of the $3,500 to $4,500 CARS rebate and get the exact car they want when it comes from the manufacturer.
http://www.autoloandaily.com/breaking-news/1697-vouchers-will-let-buyers-trade-in-clunker-and-take-new-car-home-later

[motorcity]

17. Good news. Thanks! eom

[merh]

18. I hope it helps. You should be able to order the car you want

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/business/14clunkers.html
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090813/AUTO01/908130463/1148/Feds-say--clunker--sales-can-be-for-vehicles-on-order

Don't let the dealers try to force more on you than you want and don't sign documents that are not required.

Government: Don't let dealers force you to sign return agreement under 'Cash for Clunkers'
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/08/68496875/1

[Romulox]

16. So only two vehicles are acceptable to you (one of which does not exist)? Hoookay. nt

[EOTE]

21. What vehicle doesn't exist?

Are you referring to the Mariner Hybrid? Just because it's a Ford and not a Mercury doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's the same car and they're all made by FoMoCo.

[DainBramaged]

22. RPMWorld on line

www.rpmworld.com

I think you'll enjoy it.