The "I'm not paying for my sick neighbor" talking point...

[Puzzler]

... is driving me crazy. I've heard this RW talking point repeated endlessly, usually by irate callers to radio talk-shows. However, isn't this the way that ALL insurance works, whether it's private or state-run? I mean, I'm no insurance expert, but doesn't private insurance (for anything) work this way? Insurance is not intended to be a self-funded savings plan. The money is (in theory) pooled and paid out when needed to anyone paying in... including your neighbor (if he/she has a policy).

So, what the f**k are they on about? They seem to be making an argument against the very principle of insurance, be they state-run or private.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Well, if they're not among the 50% of Americans already on a public plan, they're paying the first

$1100 of their insurance premiums to the uninsured already.

[MorningGlow]

2. On top of that

doesn't sound very Christian either. x(

[eleny]

12. On Sundays, they sit in church working on their "pious face"

[MorningGlow]

19. 'Zactly

And the other six days they work on their "constipated face".

[ejpoeta]

20. well, you know what jesus said....

let the poor and hungry go screw themselves.... i've got mine.

[GoCubsGo]

40. Yep! I hear that all the time down here in the Buy-bul Belt

They can't stand the thought of someone else getting something "for free", so they make excuses, like "You're just lazy." Or, "You just made a bunch of bad decisions." Or, "You waste your money on lattes, tanning beds, new cars and a big house." Saying people deserve their predicament absolves these shitbags from having to actually behave like the "christians" they claim to be. It doesn't matter if the person is frugal, hard-working, and has just had bad luck.

I, too, am getting extremely sick of hearing that tiresome meme. I got laid off, and am currently working a physically-exhausting temp job. It has no health insurance, and doesn't pay enough for me to buy my own. Not one of these sanctimonious "Health care must be earned" assholes would last an hour in my job. Yet, they are happy to see me go without health care. I'm still trying to figure out just how I deserve all of this. I guess I was too stupid to work for 20 years for a university that would eventually kick me and my co-workers to the curb, rather than finding a way to keep us employed with them.

[ejpoeta]

42. makes you want to say to them when they find themselves in a predicament...

one where they end up having to raise money to pay doctor bills or something... why don't you ask your buddies the health insurance companies to help you out. why don't you ask your republican buddies who you worked with to kill a bill that would have helped you with your medical expenses. sucks to be you!! but then it will be different... because it's them.

[ljm2002]

3. Short reply: "Yes, you are." n/t

[kirby]

4. As long as they've got theirs... n/t

[Missy Vixen]

5. There are people here who say the same thing

Of course, it's all couched in "I'm not paying for your bad health habits."

It's the "I've got mine, screw you" principal at work. :eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

21. Mostly, it's all about "I'm not paying for that (insert racial slur here)'s nine crack babies!"

They just cannot say that out loud. They don't seem to get that they're paying for all of those they can't stand. It's a pool (kind of like a mutual fund), not a personal HSA. That concept seems to escape them . . . much like many, many other concepts.

[mysticalchick]

45. This was my mom's whole argument ...

She passed away in 2006, an avowed republican, despite being on medicaid/medicare and any other state/government program she thought she was entitled to. "Why should 'they' get it when I had to struggle?" she'd say. I never was able to get through to her that if * had his way, she'd have NO government assistance at all.

Boiled down to "I don't want those people getting MY money." Sheesh. I thank God for my father's progressive influence in my life even if it was only a short time. I don't understand what people fear so much. We are all in this together. By helping others get what they need, I help myself too.

[Cleita]

6. The stupidity is mind boggling, isn't it?

For one thing whether they are insured or on Medicare they already are paying for their neighbor, so why not make the system more cost efficient so they don't have to pay as much? For every high insurance premium, for the P/R tax taken and every $100 pill they must buy, there are all those ER visiting uninsured and people on govt. programs like Medicaid that they already are paying for. Extending Medicare to all would cost less per capita than health care costs now.

[Gman]

7. LOL!! You're looking for logic and reason from RW'ers!

You'll drive yourself nuts. Just remember these people are basically stupid and cannot think for theirselves.

[Mrs. Overall]

8. And most of those saying this would call themselves Christians, and we all know, Jesus Christ would

NEVER have helped his neighbor.

F'ing hypocrites.

[Echo In Light]

10. Be fantastic if one of the lame-o M$M pundits would make that very comparison

[Gman]

11. Glenn Beck actually said the other day on the radio that

(paraphrase) there is no right to health care because all rights come from God and that Jesus never talked about health care so we know that there is no right to health care.

[Mrs. Overall]

13. Beck said that? OMG...

Jesus Christ also didn't talk about war or energy or the space program or the public school system or emergency services or....

What a bizarre thing to say. Beck is a total fruitcake.

[Echo In Light]

15. He also never mentioned "religion." Kinda nutty, eh? LOL

[Mrs. Overall]

18. Good point! Ha!

[JHB]

47. He DID mention religious poseures, though...

...people who insisted that all sorts of public pieties be observed, but drew a blank on "the spirit of the law". Pharasees and the like.

Of course, what he mentioned about such people wasn't anything good...

[Gman]

24. Beck is nothing more than an alcoholic sitting at the end of the bar

at 2 in the afternoon, shit faced drunk and going on and on about life.

[trotsky]

29. Christians have a canned answer for that.

Yes, Jesus said to help your neighbor, but he didn't say that the government should FORCE you to. Which of course fits right in with the right wing mentality, that if only their taxes weren't so high they could give away MORE money to charity and accomplish these things. :eyes:

[gratuitous]

9. It's meaningless word salad

And you're 100% correct that insurance, social security, firefighters, police, and a whole bunch of other worthwhile things in our society work that way. What I'd give a shiny nickel for is to hear someone really pin a squawker down on this point: What does that mean, "You're not paying for your sick neighbor"? And run through the litany of things people pay for but don't receive a direct benefit from. And then run through the things that would reduce most people to starving in the street if they had to shoulder the full burden themselves.

That's why humans band together and form societies. You don't want to pay for someone else getting sick? Go buy a mountain and live on the top of it. And don't use my road system to get there. Clear, grade, level and pave your own road.

[slampoet]

14. Your neighbor is now sick with Swine Flu and you are breathing their air....

Health is a community issue.

[JHB]

49. Viruses don't care if your paperwork is in order. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

16. My answer to them.... "Oh, Yes You Are!"

And it's costing far more than you realize.

The lack of preventive services means greater costs for crisis management later.

And the undue use of ER, use of ER for matters that could be treated in clinics or if people could access a GP, drive our costs through the roof.

Assholes.

We DO already pay for the uninsured.

:nuke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. +1

:thumbsup:

[loosey goosey]

22. They say that we are already funding universal healthcare with tax money

right now. And we have the highest rate in the world, from what I understand. And of course the insurance premiums are high to make up for uninsured folk. It's a fallacy and besides that, it's selfish. Yeah, I said it. If you make $150,000+, you are in the upper echelon of earners in the world. It doesn't mean low-income people are lazy. I see window washers all the time who go out there and do their thing and I know they don't have insurance.

[surrealAmerican]

25. Could you rephrase that?

I don't understand what you mean by "already funding universal healthcare with tax money". Who's saying that?

[loosey goosey]

27. I know...I can't quite articulate it. We pay thru some taxes of which I am not familiar

And let me be perfectly clear--I am not suggesting it's adequate. It's one reason why Obama will probably include undocumented immigrants (which really sets some people off). Because it's more prudent economically. Illegal immigrants are coming to emergency rooms anyhow. They have kids here. To put them under the umbrella will reduce costs.

[surrealAmerican]

28. I know of no such system.

We do end up paying more for hospital services because of all the patients who can't pay, but that is not a "tax". Patients are billed for the services, and when they can't pay, frequently end up bankrupt. The hospital doesn't get payed, and raises their rates to make up for the shortfall.

[Romulox]

23. He's *actually* got a point. "Insurance" is provided by private corporations.

We are being told that insurance companies must be allowed (under penalty of law) to be allowed to profit from we taxpayers as a captive audience--only private greed (and immense profits) can deliver "efficient" healthcare, we are told. But as to private citizens, we are supposed to act altruistically? How do you reconcile the two positions? :shrug: I don't believe that you can.

I think single payer cuts such an argument off at the knees. But as long as you have our Federal Government ordering us to buy private insurance for the private profit of others, how can you tell us we must act selflessly as to our own greed? Makes no sense. Just like the insurance co's are "rational actors" who seek the most advantage from any situation, so are taxpayers.

But we can't have that. Selfishness is the only possible motive that makes our society "efficient", but individuals must practice altruism? It's neo-liberal incoherence, at its worst.

[bkkyosemite]

26. Your neighbor thru premiums is paying for their neighbor the cost is added to the premium. HR 676 is

the way to go..Everyone is covered and that argument cannot be made any longer.

[guitar man]

30. True story about one of my neighbors

Hard working guy,loses his job at Zebco when the plant shut down and moved overseas and winds up working a shit job for 1/3 of what he was making. Can't afford health coverage anymore, falls ill and needs about $5k worth of care he can't afford until they finally haul him off in an ambulance damn near dead one day for emergency surgery. Long story short, what would have cost $5k in the beginning had ballooned to almost $60k by the time they hauled him away. And he still couldn't afford it, he was barely able to feed the kids and keep the utilities on with the shit wage he was making.

So, guess who wound up paying the $60k instead of $5k? you guessed it.

:banghead:

[SoCalDem]

31. I hate paying to build/maintain/repair bridges & roads I'll never use

and now that my kids are grown, I don't want to pay for schools anymore, either :P :sarcasm:

[guitar man]

32. I know your post was meant as sarcasm

But it raises an interesting point. We do use those roads and bridges whether we ever travel them ourselves. If you buy anything at the store that was delivered by truck, have a UPS or FEDEX delevery or anything else like that, chances are you've used those roads and bridges. And if you go to the doctor, hire somebody to fix your PC or an architect to design a house for you, you may have used schools you or your children have never attended.

Here lies the difference between the thinking of us and our short-sighted counterparts on the right. ;)

[Romulox]

35. How much does the local insurance man skim off the top of the road fund, though?

Taxes =/= "premiums".

[SoCalDem]

36. um...my reply was facetious

a parodying,parroting of right-wing "logic"..not meant to be taken seriously :rofl:

that's why I used :

:P :sarcasm:

[Romulox]

38. I know it was. I was pointing out the analogy doesn't work, because roads are paid for with taxes

Taxes are collected by the government, not private businesses. But that's not what the healthcare debate involves.

We're presently talking about mandatory insurance premiums. Those involve a profit to a "local insurance man". :hi:

[Ilsa]

33. Other countires like France pay 12% of their GDP in health care costs. We pay

a whopping 18% according to Dylan Ratigan in MSNBC this morning.

People who say such stupid things don't realize they are already paying for their neighbors' healthcare. Furthermore, they should ask their priests, ministers, etc, about caring for their fellow man whether they are their "brothers' keeper."

[ejpoeta]

43. i may be cynical, but i tend to think that the priest i grew up with would tell you that and in the

same breath want you to give him money. he was good at that... loved to talk about 'it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven'... then ask for money. guy made me sick. we had no food in our house.... no money... but my dad always managed to give money to the church. uggh.

[Orsino]

34. We already pay for our sick, unemployed, and violent neighbors.

We pay for roads that our neighbors use on their way to subsidized care at emergency rooms. We pay to protect our neighbors from tainted food, water and air. We pay to educate our neighbors, and to protect their property and civil rights. We pay for their retirement, and yes, we pay when they get sick, too--once they reach a certain age.

But we'll fuck 'em over if the television tells us to. x(

[Marr]

37. Then drop the Christian act. n/t

[dembotoz]

39. ask them if they go to church on sunday-then tell them they might as well stay home

cause the whole christianity thing ain't working on them.

[asdjrocky]

41. "Am I my brothers keeper?"

Yep, yes. As a matter of fact you are.

[spinbaby]

44. Just heard it from the neighbor

Got a speech about how he worked hard to have a job with good health care so it wasn't fair to have a program in which meth addicts and illegal aliens could also have good health care.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. And what happens to him when/if he loses his job with good health care? Does he have a answer?

:shrug:

[Odin2005]

46. These are people who would be OK with, say, us disabled people not getting healthcare, the fuckers.

The "Obama wants to euthanize you" BS is pure projection. Hey right-wing morans, MY FRIEND WOULD NOT HAVE A FUNCTIONING ELECTRIC WHEELCHAIR WERE IT NOT FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA PAYING FOR IT, you assholes!!!

[RagAss]

50. Ah yes...the American version of Christianity.

Hijack the cross first and then make your own fucking rules up !!!!

[Mythsaje]

51. "Yeah, well, I'm not paying for the fire department to put out your fucking house fire."

"I mean, it's not MY fault your stupid drunken mother-in-law keeps falling asleep with a lit cigarette."