Michael Vick killed dogs and got two years. Donte Stallworth killed a man and got 24 days.

[WilliamPitt]

That makes sense.

:eyes:

And no, I'm not defending Vick. He deserved every minute of the time he got.

But Donte Stallworth ran down a man while drunk and got 24 days.

Seems a little screwy to me.

[SoFlaJet]

1. True true WP but

Donte also has been suspended for the year-with NO pay-pretty big fine-he also loses his license for life

[Critters2]

2. Whereas Vick is some kind of hero to some on DU

it would seem.

[SoFlaJet]

4. not to me

But I DO have a family member in prison and I hope he gets his chance to regain his life when he gets out.

[Johonny]

8. not really

people are just sick of the endless mean spirited Vick threads. That usually break down into racial taunts or odd death fantasies about how people want Vick to be tortured or killed. I for one could do without more of that.

[Buzz Clik]

9. A hero? Hardly.

Search out a few threads and read them. Check back and tell us of the universal adoration for Vick.

The best you'll find is similar to the OP -- he's done hard time and lost two years of his life. He's paid his dues. Time to move on.

[wryter2000]

26. Exactly

Was it part of his sentence that he never be allowed to make a living again?

[Kalyke]

39. Sigh.... he can earn a living, but he should not be allowed

to do so in a venue that, for good or bad, promotes the adoration of young children.

Let him be a mechanic or a burger flipper or a plumber or anything other than a "hero."

[SteveM]

25. Who might they be? Any specifics?

[Renew Deal]

10. He loses his drivers license for life?

Is that a local law?

[loosey goosey]

12. I doubt it in this country. We are so tolerant of drunk driving!

Europe takes your car away. That whole license revolking is a joke. People still drive.

It's funny because you seem shocked at the severity of losing one's license for life. What about the person who lost his/her life? That was for life, too...:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

14. I haven't heard about laws like that.

And I don't think thats the law where I live (NY). I don't even know if that type of law is common, but I don't remember hearing about it before.

So are lifetime revocation laws common?

[loosey goosey]

17. Not that I know of. And as I stated, eff revocation of a piece of paper.

If someone is so clueless to drive while intoxicated, why do we think they will obey a piece of plastic? Sheesh! Take the car away and give it to a low-income person in a rural area who needs it for work.

[Renew Deal]

18. Why would someone with no license own a car?

If someone wants to get their hands on a car, they can. Confiscating the car won't do much, and may hurt the drivers family if it's a shared vehicle. They do confiscate cars in my area, though they sometimes give them back.

[loosey goosey]

21. I meant they lose their licenses after DUIs, yet still drive their cars anyway!

Of course they may be able to get another car but what is easier: getting another car or driving on a suspended license? And I want to vomit when they go out and kill someone AGAIN on their little suspended license.

[sledgehammer]

19. Yes, we are too tolerant of drunk anything

We are way too tolerant of our drunk friends, colleagues, and family members.

Getting behind the wheel is not the only point where a drunk person is dangerous. They are dangerous when they go back home to their family, or when they are at a sports event, or in the privacy of a bedroom, or near a weapon, etc.

Nothing wrong with enjoying a drink or two. But the moment one's judgment gets impaired, it becomes extremely dangerous. For too long we've loved to see people getting wasted and telling stories about it, and we've laughed along. We've happily encouraged tipsy people to have "one more," and derided them as "pussies" if they can't keep up with the chugging.

Alcohol is not a bad thing. The culture we've developed around alcohol is.

[loosey goosey]

22. You may call me too strict, but I believe that one drink is too many.

Even a hint of alcohol can affect one's reflexes. Just to be on the safe side, I see nothing wrong with staying completely sober.

[sledgehammer]

23. Oh, I agree. I don't drink at all, never have, never felt the desire to.

I realized a long time ago that it's basically a socially acceptable drug which is abused way more than we like to accept.

However, I've seen many of my friends enjoy a glass of wine at dinner, or one beer during a sports event, and it has no affect on them whatsoever (I'm very sensitive to change in behavior).

That's why I think that alcohol can be enjoyed safely in small amounts. But we've created a culture where the goal is to have the alcohol impair your judgment. Very scary.

[Renew Deal]

24. Do you support the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you pine for the "good old days?" :)

[sledgehammer]

33. I know this question wasn't asked of me

But since I'm part of the discussion, I'll chime in and say "Hell no!"

Prohibition was a disaster, and will always be a disaster.

Socially though, I think we have done a miserable job by tolerating excessive drinking, even glorifying it. No one can really change that culture except us individuals.

[SoFlaJet]

13. yup in Florida

.

[fascisthunter]

3. it's obscene

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. Stallworth bought off the victim's family

[Johonny]

6. The point of jail is to remove people

from general society that are a menace to that society. There is also a punishment factor, although there are many cheaper ways to punish. By taking away Stallworths ability to drive for the rest of his life they basically remove the menace. They also gave him other punishment such as house arrest and community service. These are general more cost effective to society. I know there is a feeling if a man isn't being gang raped in prison for life some how are justice society isn't being served, but frankly I think Stallworth got an ok sentence based on his danger to society. You could argue his house arrest should have been longer and I was sad to hear several lawyers saying his drivers license could eventually be returned to him, but really in modern society does everyone need to be stacked up at huge cost in prison?

[sledgehammer]

16. That's not the only point of jail

It's also to punish people by putting them in less than ideal conditions, and to serve as an example for others.

I wouldn't classify Martha Stewart as a "menace to society," but she justifiably went to jail for her crimes.

To tolerate a DUI death is sick. Stallworth should have been in jail much longer than that. Drinking and driving is inexcusable and there should be zero tolerance.

As for Vick, he served some serious time and has lost an immense amount of income/worth (earnings, homes, restaurants, sponsorship, etc). He's justifiably become the poster child of animal cruelty. He's done his time, he's paid his dues. And if he shows remorse and puts in an effort to undo some of the damage he did, then I say "Go Eagles!"

But zero tolerance to him and he better know he's on thin ice. The entire country is watching - he has a golden opportunity to show that some people deserve a second chance. He also has a golden opportunity to show that he's still a jackass. I hope he chooses the former.

[Johonny]

35. Your post makes me laugh

Your objection is funny since I said that prison is also to punish people. Your objecting to something I conceded in my post. It seems odd.

The older I get and the more I learn about how the modern prison system came to be, the more I learn that there are better(?)/different ways to punish some people. Particularly non-violent/small scope crimes. I think locking Martha Stewart up at great expense to the tax payer was/is very stupid. She was simply no physical (or otherwise) threat to me and clearly there are vastly better ways to punish people for insider trading (particularly the relatively small amount she did). It always amazes me some people are willing to spend so much $ to satisfy some lust for vengeance for so little reward. Particularly in the Martha Stewart case for example.

[sledgehammer]

36. Well, there's the supposed deterrent factor

If Martha Stewart and other insider traders were punished by fine only, would that serve as a deterrent to future crimes?

But you can argue deterrents either way, especially since the death penalty's effectiveness is highly questionable.

Vengeance is certainly an issue, and will always be there. Madoff is no menace to society (in threat/danger terms). But surely people who have lost money want to see him punished. Locking him away seems to be a decent solution.

Madoff might be an extreme example, but the fact is that limiting a person's freedom, especially in an inhospitable place like jail, is seen as a means of punishment.

I'm sure there are other/better ways to punish people. But I think what's interesting in the Stallworth case is the lack of punishment applied.

[joeybee12]

7. Different states, different laws, different judges...

...actually Vick's was federal, so it's different jurisdiction.

[hugo_from_TN]

11. Intent

makes a large difference.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

15. All the Philly games will be sold out

and the televised Eagles games' ratings will go through the roof.

[Kalyke]

41. People are stupid, mean and assholish.

Vick should be shunned.

The whole team should refuese to play with such an evil person.

[greguganus]

20. Blame the courts. n/t

[ThomWV]

27. and George Bush killed America and got away scott free.

[aikoaiko]

28. yes, but he has to play for the Browns.

That's punishment enough.

[joeybee12]

29. Ouch!

:evilgrin:

[Gabi Hayes]

30. get back to us when you know the actual facts of the Stallworth case

hint: you can start by finding a picture of the road he was on when it happened

then read a little bit about how Florida law applies in cases like this

I'm not excusing Stallworth by any means, but there's much more than meets the eye than your simplistic rendering of the 'facts'

[tkmorris]

31. Who needs facts when you have self-righteous indignation?

[Mystayya]

32. I have zero sympathy for him and won't watch him play again either

These guys have the world handed to them. They have opportunities others can only dream of. Yet time and again we see them fuck it up. Some of them never seem to grow up and remain spoiled little boys who don't have to play by the rules. Stallworth may not have meant to kill anyone, but he got in car knowing full well that it is not only against the law, it is also wrong.

I am an avid football fan and as a rabid Pats fan I am sad that Donte made the choices he did.

[sledgehammer]

34. "...who don't have to play by the rules..."

We all fall into this category. We all commit crimes - we speed on the highway, or we knick a shampoo bottle from a hotel, etc. Everyone has their own level of comfort in committing crimes and hoping not to get caught.

Certainly, torturing and killing dogs is a million degrees worse. But he did eventually play by the rules - he did his time, he declared bankruptcy, he lost millions in potential earnings, he destroyed his reputation and his name has now become synonymous with animal cruelty. He has shown signs of remorse, and he could serve as a great example of how our justice system can turn people around. It's entirely in his hands.

(PS: My bro is an insane PATS fan. He was almost in emotional tears watching clips of Brady last night in the pregame. We were actually about to go to Philly, but it was going to be too tight.)

[dmallind]

37. The man walked out in front of him - BAC not a factor at all

A lifetime teetotaler with the reflexes of a hockey goalie would have killed that guy too. But because he had a few drinks he gets whacked with huge fines and losing a license for life by puritan busybodies who cannot apply logic.

[depakid]

40. Americans have long ago discraded the notion of promiximate cause

where morality issues come into play.

[dmallind]

42. I could live with that if they also could determine causal from coincidental

The driver's BAC level here had zero zip nada zilch in any way to do with the pedestrian's death.

[Kalyke]

38. And Vick meant to. Stallworth made a really dumb, ignorant

and stupid move - but he didn't wake up that morning and think he was going to kill a man for his entertainment and profit.

[liquid diamond]

43. Dogs aren't as valuable as humans. You people need to stop.

I'm not defending Vick's actions btw.

[HopeOverFear]

44. Vick didn't deserve no damn two years, either

[Forkboy]

45. The fuck he didn't.