Sometimes I think that Democrats/ liberals/ left/ progressives should lie right back re health care

[HamdenRice]

It's impossible to have an honest debate with people who are lying through their teeth. I'd like to see someone just start a campaign of not giving a shit and lying right back. What lies would you like to see? I can think of a few:

The insurance companies are planning to force you to sign a waiver when you have surgery that says they can harvest your organs without telling you to help pay your bill.

The insurance companies have a plan to reduce insurance payouts every year until by 2016 they will not pay a single claim.

...

[defendandprotect]

1. How about truth: Insurance companies are letting people die ....

Insurance companies are overburdening the system to such an extent that people

are being bounced from hospitals!

People are being refused treatment for serious medical conditions because they

didn't report, in one case . . . a yeast infection!!!

[wryter2000]

3. Make it simpler

Insurance companies are letting people die.

[defendandprotect]

6. It's very odd that we're hearing these stories yet the supposedly ordinary

people involved in this "grassroots" movement have heard none of it . . . ??

Have no problems with families being cut off by insurance companies or even covering

the insurance bill???? !!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Fighting lies with truth is arbitrarily and unnecessarily hard.

Fuck 'em. They're liars, they don't deserve fair play.

You did hear about the health insurance CEO's who substitute arsenic for insulin, right?

[Kievan Rus]

4. No way. We're better than them.

We don't need to resort to lies like the wingnuts do.

[Robbie88]

5. Can't say that I haven't felt the same way occasionally over the past few weeks or so.

Unfortunately, our attempts to have an honest discussion regarding the problems with health care in the United States don't draw quite the same amount of media or public attention as some of the shadier tactics of the right, such as comparing President Obama to Hitler, insisting that health care reform will create bureaucratic death panels, or shouting down elected officials. Often, it feels that there is very little to gain in taking the more honesty-driven and moral highroad, but as long as we continue to push for reform without compromise our core principles, among them being truthfulness, we will be on the right side of history.

[kevinbgoode]

7. Aw c'mon...we can lie..at least a little....like..how about this?

I'm tellin' people that the GOP plan requires mandatory faith healing through the 700 Club or Benny Hinn - and there are no other choices. No American is allowed to see a medical professional until they have made their contribution to the Republican "Christian" Miracle-workin' network, and then a "miracle panel" will decide if God wants you to have additional treatment.

[HamdenRice]

18. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[WorseBeforeBetter]

8. I tell them that Obama will be going door-to-door to personally pull the plug.

Or as someone else posted to DU a while back, to personally administer the killing drugs. Then, depending on the audience, I close with "you phucking dumbass."

[Marr]

9. Frankly, I think that's a good idea.

Fear works on the stupid people Republicans depend on. I don't see why we should allow them to monopolize the idiots and lunatics. If your opponent is going to make things up, don't waste time carefully rebutting his lies, in the hopes that the people who were stupid enough to believe them will suddenly learn to reason. Just give them another lie.

All this crap being above them is silly and naive. I'd rather win dirty than lose clean.

[tj2001]

10. When your opponents declare war on you, you fight back with every means necessary

and I mean EVERY means necessary

[Mind_your_head]

11. No, don't lie. Ever. Keep spreading the truth.

Truth, like Sunlight, is the best disinfectant.

[leftstreet]

12. **THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WANT TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS**

:thumbsup:

[HamdenRice]

16. uh...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It's so ridiculous -- but then again that's what these right wingers are saying about health care reform at town halls.

[ContinentalOp]

13. Your subject line is confusing.

By "lie right back" I thought you meant something entirely different. Like, give up, lie back and take it.

But yes, I agree with you. The thing with lies is that if we threw around a bunch of lies and bogus statistics, the right wing blowhards at Fox would have to spend their time debunking everything and they wouldn't have much time to craft their own lies and talking points. We could essentially turn the situation right around.

Maybe there's sort of a continuum though. 1. The boring facts -> 2. a well crafted, logical and consistent message -> 3. a psychologically powerful and well framed talking point -> 4. a colorfully embellished story or anecdote that "feels true" -> 5. blatant lies and propaganda.

Democrats are for the most part stuck on #1 and only rarely rise to the level of #2. People like George Lakoff are trying to inspire us to rise to the level of #3. #4 is a really powerful place to be where talking points converge with the politician's charisma to form a powerful narrative message. Reagan and occasionally Clinton worked well in that area. #5 is where Bush and Fox spend all of their time.

[HamdenRice]

17. That's a very well reasoned analysis. I agree even if we don't lie, we need to be at 3 at least!

[Scarsdale Vibe]

14. 250 people die each day because our health care isn't as good as France's. Oh wait, that's true.

The truth is that our country is allowing tens of thousands to die each year because of bad public policy and rapacious insurance companies.

[GodlyDemocrat]

15. Your third sentence I do believe

Just personally :)

I don't think we should knowingly lie (lies don't convert people to your side - Sarah Palin is not doing her cause any favors).

However, we should demonize the people who oppose health reform, including impugning their faith, and we should personally attack those who have been responsible for denying some care in industry, including doctors and insurance executives. That's fair game.

[Kitty Herder]

19. We don't need to lie.

The truth is ugly enough.