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Hitler Hated Communism, Socialism, Homosexuals, and Jews

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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:54 PM
Original message
Hitler Hated Communism, Socialism, Homosexuals, and Jews
Here is an excerpt, I don't think I've posted it here first. I think it is important to say neither party is Nazi, but it is ridiculous to say Democrats are more than Republicans, since there was a distinct Socialist Party in Germany before WW II, and the NAZIs were "National Socialists," basically Fascist.

Excerpt:

Perhaps to emphasize this anti-capitalist focus, and to align itself with similar groups in Austria and Czechoslovakia, the party changed its name in February 1920 to the National Socialist German Workers’ Party; hostile commentators soon abbreviated this to the word ‘Nazi”, just as the enemies of the Social Democrats had abbreviated the name of that party earlier on to ‘Sozi’. Despite the change of name, however, it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of or an outgrowth from, Socialism. True, as some have pointed out, its rhetoric was frequently egalitarian, it stressed the need to put common needs above the needs of the individual, and it often declared itself opposed to big business and international finance capital. Famously, too, anti-Semitism was once declared to be ‘the socialism of fools’. But from the very beginning Hitler declared himself implacably opposed to Social Democracy and, initially to a much smaller extent, Communism: after all, the ‘November traitors’ who had signed the Armistice and later the Treaty of Versailles were not Communists at all, but the Social Democrats and their allies.

The ‘National Socialists’ wanted to unite the two political camps of the left and right into which, they argued, the Jews had manipulated the German nation. The basis for this was to be the idea of race. This was light years removed from the class-based ideology of socialism. Nazism was in some ways an extreme counter-ideology to socialism, borrowing much of its rhetoric in the process, from its self-image as a movement rather than a party, to its much-vaunted contempt for bourgeois convention and conservative timidity. The idea of ‘party’, suggested allegiance to parliamentary democracy, working steadily within a settled democratic polity. In speeches and propagandas however, Hitler and his followers preferred on the whole to talk of ‘National Socialist movement’, just as the Social Democrats had talked of “workers’ movement” or, come to that, the feminists of the ‘women’s movement’ and the apostles of prewar teenage rebellion of ‘youth movement’. The term not only suggested dynamism and unceasing forward motion, it also more than hinted at an ultimate goal, an absolute object to work towards that was grander and more final than the endless compromises of conventional politics. By presenting itself as a ‘movement’, National Socialism, like the labor movement, advertised is opposition to conventional politics and is intention to subvert and ultimately overthrow the system within which it was initially forced to work.

By replacing class with race, and the dictatorship of the proletariat with the dictatorship of the leader, Nazism reversed the usual terms of socialist ideology. The synthesis of right and left was neatly symbolized in the Party’s official flag, personally chosen by Hitler in the mid-1920’s: the field was bright red, the color of socialism, with the swastika, the emblem of racist nationalism, outlined in black in the middle of a white circle at the centre of the flag, so that the whole ensemble made a combination of black, white, and red, the colors of the official flag of the Bismarckian rejection of the Weimar Republic and all it stood for; but by changing the design and adding the swastika, a symbol already used by a variety of far-right racist movements and Free Corps units in the postwar period, the Nazis also announced that what they wanted to replace it with was a new, Pan-German racial state, not the old Wilhelmine status quo.

The Coming of the Third Reich, by Richard J. Evans pp. 173-74

One might point out that the Reichstag fire was supposedly started by a Communist, though I wonder if that is actually historically accurate, of if Hitler, like he was so wont to do, simply accused someone of facilitating his fledgeling dictatorship.

Clearly, to the left of a Democrat is a more Socialist economic system, just like to the right of Republicans, there is Fascism, which basically is corporate governance. Are we there yet? You decide. But if I had to choose a direction along this spectrum between the two, I think we need to continue pulling back from the corporate rule of our government, to a place where they govern for people, not for the MIC, or Pharm companies, or the corporate media.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yet the Reich tries to reinvent him as a socialist.....
....rather than the totalitarian capitalist that he was.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fascism is essentially the antithesis of socialism
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. If they were smart enough
They'd be embarassed by their own stupidity, but they aren't. The right never gets too invested in facts, or reality for that matter.

I agree, they should have stuck with Socialism, not the NAZI thing. But like I posted the other day, it's more of the childish tactic NO "I'm Not, you are!!"

They are basically trying to strike back at our well directed criticism of Bush.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. A contemporaneous comparison of Hitler's NAZIsm to socialism
in the context of German history:

Pragmatic economists have pointed out that Fascism is a reflex of the lean and bony ridges and sandy or sparse soil of Central Europe. Socialists insist that Fascism is not inevitable anywhere, and that a different system of property, political and consequent international relations would result in plenty for the German people even though their soil and raw materials are poor. But whatever the truth of the Socialist argument, it is axiomatic that a nation's total well-being under any economic system is limited by two things: the nature of the land and what is under the land, and the number and ingenuity of the population. A nation of clever and ambitious people with scant natural resources has but one recourse: it must sell its services by fabricating and transporting raw materials supplied by others. The economic history of Germany since the third quarter of the last cen- tury has been the history of a people consciously and steadfastly steered by their State to sell services. "We must export," recently said Herr Hitler, a legitimate heir to this tradition, "or die." In the rush to catch up to western industrial powers, Germany has tried ever since 1871 to syncopate history. A patron saint among German economists is Friedrich List, who spent seven years in the U. S., learned to admire Alexander Hamilton's protectionist philosophy and went home to write his National System of Political Economy (1841). While Prussia was busy consolidating the German nation by successive wars with Denmark, Austria and France, no one paid much attention to List. But after 1871, he provided justification for what Aggrandizer Bismarck wanted to do.

An aristocratic landowner from Pomerania in the backward German east, Bismarck cared little for the doctrines of economic freedom from feudal interference that were popular in free trade England. He made German capitalism an "assisted" capitalism, far more consciously purposeful than the economic systems of the west. Price-fixing and market-sharing cartels were encouraged; protection was granted to both agriculture and industry. The Prussian railroads were bought for the Prussian State, and the Social Democratic trade unions were won over to the paternalistic system partly because of the general pre-War prosperity and partly because Bismarck had introduced sickness, accident and old-age insurance for wage-earners.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,761353-2,00.html

The government insurance plans were introduced maybe in the 1880s in Germany. That was during the Kaiser's monarchy. It is ridiculous to think that the social insurance plans were the projects of Hitler. Nothing further from the truth.

There's lots more. Note how Time magazine differentiates socialism and NAZIsm but acknowledges they are opposing approaches to dealing with the same economic problems in Germany.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hitler didn't care for black folks either and that is what makes it
even more bizarre that the wingnuts would imply that Obama is Hitler. :crazy:
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. And his supporters used mob tactics to sabotage their political opponents' meetings, too.
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Perhaps
This was just a kind of preemptive approach, like hey, they are going to call us NAZI brownshirts for this method or protests, so lets call them NAZIS this time first.

NEXT Guy says,
But they are nothing like NAZIS???

First guy says
If you've not noticed, the people we are sending out there are dumber than catshit, they won't know the difference. Hell man, the whole reason they do this stuff is that they either can't, or don't want to think for themselves. We just give them stuff to say, and they go out and do it, just like our email to them to shout, and make a bunch of noise.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. LOL... already unrec'd... aw, poor trolls. (nt)
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:01 PM
Original message
This is all high falutin' book learnin'.
Seriously, this level of comprehension is asking too much of RWers to grasp. But, good information for the rest of us. :)
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. and Labor Unions
he would have been a perfect 21st century repuke.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wasn't he also religious?
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Not in any conventional sense
Hitler was fascinated by the occult and spiritual esoterica, but had little use for Germany's Catholic or Lutheran religious communities.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Nazi's were also extremely anti-abortion and anti-birth control
of course I'm talking about for Aryans.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just like Rush/Billo/Sean and the BFEE, yet no one wants to believe
that they are totalitarian leaning fascists.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. The rants of wingnuts mixing socialism, fascism, nazis only shows their LACK OF EDUCATION
and lack of any kind of understanding of HISTORY, political philosophy or sense.

It´s embarrassing, frankly.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Responding to the irrational with rationality = fail.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. ''In my country there is problem.....''
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm glad you point this out. the right wing doesn't seem to get it. But then
they don't seem to read much history.
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's called 'self-loathing'...
too bad he didn't hate xenophobia.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. The entire goal of Hitler's rise to power...

was to subvert Germany's trend toward Marxist socialism and replace it with the (anti-communist) fascism we are familiar with today. Even the original Fascist Manifesto contained social and pro-democratic elements which were ignored once the Nazis took power and democracy became a thing of the past.

There are still those on the illiterate right who claim that Nazism is equivalent to Marxism and that Hitler and Stalin were one and the same. They could not be more wrong.
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