Was I out of line at the grocery store when I confronted the Astroturd?

[HopeHoops]

I'm generally a pacifist in public and rarely confront anyone, but some cases demand action.

As my groceries were being scanned, there was a large woman in line behind me with a cartoon-like high pitched voice reciting Astroturd healthcare talking points over her cell phone. After about two minutes, I hit the boiling point. I turned around, put my hands on either side of her cart, and as best as I can remember, the exchange went like this (I did not raise my voice)...

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

"Hang on a minute, WHAT?"

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

"You can't say that!"

"I just did. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? You have to have an IQ lower than your shoe size to believe the shit FOX is feeding you. You're a tool for the very forces that are screwing you right now - the insurance industry."

She stood there in disbelief and the skinny guy behind her was almost doubled over laughing.

"Based on the crap in your cart, I think you're going to be needing that socialist Obama care pretty soon. Whew. What a clusterfuck of fat and junk food. That's exactly what you get when you watch FOX."

The young lady at the checkout knows me pretty well and she was trying really hard to keep her composure. The Astroturd just stood there opening and closing her mouth like a goldfish begging for food. I'm sure she had words, and lots of them, after I left.

So, was I out of line?

[soverywendy]

1. You rock. You rule.

That's EXACTLY what these cows need.

[roguevalley]

31. she was talking in public disrespecting your space with her spew.

she cannot claim privacy when going on in public. I hate cell phones in public. You did fine. Hugs to you, honey.

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. +1 nt

[zinziber officinale]

245. You must be against the ACLU then...

They fight for the most odious of characters under the premise that true FREEDOM means dissent is allowed. Even if that goes against your beliefs.

[Touchdown]

2. No limits baby! Remember, they declared war on us.

You don't be nice to asses, you spank them.

[polichick]

3. LOL - this country needs a few more like you! nt

[EFerrari]

4. Yeah, acting like an authoritarian asshole doesn't get you any points.

I'd have called the cops on you.

[HopeHoops]

7. LOL! I probably would have called the cops on me as well!

It was the voice that sent me over the edge.

[EFerrari]

9. I don't watch the cable shows because my neighbor must be tired of hearing me

yelling through the wall. :)

[madeline_con]

For telling someone to hang up.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

27. You bet. What part of "anti-social behavior" is unclear to you?

[madeline_con]

145. Looking out for the common good is not antisocial.

Trying to prevent others, who may have been even more ignorant than the cell phone caller, from hearing lies, was protecting the public. Calling the cops would be not only stupid, but laughable. "He told me to shut the fuck up and hang up my phone. Lock him up!" :rofl:

spell edit

[EFerrari]

151. Laying your hands on other people or their stuff is assault.

Well done, laughing at this thuggery. :hi:

[madeline_con]

154. The shopping cart was not "other people stuff" n/t

[EFerrari]

157. Why are you minimizing thuggery against women?

Geezus, with friends like these.

[madeline_con]

159. Oh, now it's thuggery against women.

A poor, helpless, loud mouthed woman, spewing bullshit loud enough to annoy other people. WWWAAAAHHH!!! :eyes:

[EFerrari]

183. Bookmark this thread so in years to come you can review your contribution to DU.

[Wednesdays]

196. Methinks this place has been infiltrated...

VERY infiltrated.

[madeline_con]

226. So, I'm a troll, is that it?

Fuck you if that's what you meant, and yep it is being VERY infiltrated, by people so left they're falling off the edge, if it isn't what you meant. :)

[tbyg52]

241. Uh, if I am using the cart at the time, it most certainly is MY STUFF, if only temporarily. nt

Edited for typo, which it seems I can make even when I'm doing a subject-only post....!

[Kalyke]

244. Not until you pay for it and she hadn't.

So, uh, no it's not the person pushing the cart's "stuff." It belongs to the grocery store.

[tbyg52]

247. OK, then - the next time I see you in the grocery store

and I need a cart, I will take yours, dump your stuff on the floor, and proceed to use your cart. Or, better yet, if what's in your cart is stuff I want, I will simply take it from you and proceed to the checkout counter.

Of course I didn't mean it was *literally* hers until she paid for it, duh. And I think my paragraph above takes care of your argument that it's not "hers" in any form at all until she pays for it. I think most people would get pretty upset if you messed with their cart or the stuff in it, paid for yet or not.

If you don't see that, then I hope someone, someday, treats you as I have described above.....!

[cherokeeprogressive]

180. Legally, assault doesn't even need to involve physical contact.

If the woman was sufficiently frightened to feel like her well-being was in jeopardy, assault charges would be well within the law.

[pipi_k]

158. The job market is opening back up again!!!!

Whoa...I'm gonna have to check the "Help Wanted" ads a little more closely from now on. I had no idea someone was hiring people to go out and protect Society from the rude and ignorant.

And to think that the only job requirement is the ability to be rude and ignorant in return.

Whatta deal!

:woohoo:

[madeline_con]

161. So, HopeHoops was rude and ignorant? Bullshit. n/t

[pipi_k]

170. Yep...and here's why

Ignorance of the rules for proper public behavior. Number one, it's considered pretty lowlife to point out the rudeness of others, according to quite a few etiquette experts.

And commenting unkindly on the contents of someone else's grocery cart is just RUDE in and of itself.


Rude. Ignorant.

and you know what?


We're only getting ONE SIDE of the whole story here.

I'm sure the OP thinks her side is either the ONLY side, or the RIGHT side.

I wonder what other people standing in line would have reported. I wonder what the phone offender would have reported. Probably something quite different from the story we got, and what I've often found is that the TRUTH many times lies in the middle.

[cherokeeprogressive]

186. No. He was FUCKING rude, FUCKING ignorant, and FUCKING out of line.

Had I witnessed him talking to a woman, ANY woman like that, I'd have first politely demanded that he stop. If that didn't work, I'd get a store manager and ask that he be removed. If THAT didn't work, I'd get in between him and the woman after gently removing his hands from her cart.

Had I walked up after going back to get something we had forgotten while shopping, and found him talking to MY Ms. like that, while holding onto our cart, he'd be picking himself up off of the ground. Or someone else would.

[cwydro]

200. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[pipi_k]

216. Thank you from me, too! n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. .

:evilgrin:

[sailor65]

6. Sorry, but your behavior,

if your account is accurate, is not much better than the freepers you despise.

[HopeHoops]

11. I didn't raise my voice.

But yeah, that's why I asked. It wasn't my finest moment.

[sailor65]

17. Raised voice or not, unacceptable

and the food/fat stuff thrown in? Treating anybody (Whether they be right or wrong) that way, you should've gotten your ass kicked for good measure.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. Yeah, hon, you blew it -

nothing to be proud of there. Vulgarity, obscenity, personal attack - even grabbing her cart was over the line.

Sometimes dignity goes a long way - you might have asked her, quite politely, to speak more softly. Chances are she'd have ignored you, but you'd have done the best you could.

My new rule is asking myself how President Obama might have handled it.

You just made her far more locked into her beliefs, and now she has a really great story to tell her rightwingnut friends about the liberal asshole with the filthy mouth who scared the life out of her in the grocery store.

You did no one any favors.

But, you knew that.

And you'll never do it that way again..................................

[lukasahero]

135. "now she has a really great story to tell her rightwingnut friends about the liberal asshole"

And that what it alls comes down to. Aren't we supposed to be better than that?

[pipi_k]

163. Yep, that's exactly what I'm thinking...

Let's give a big "Thanks a lot" to people who make us look like assholes.


RW nutballs everywhere are probably laughing their asses off because some of us do the hard work for them...

[SammyWinstonJack]

177. Oh who cares? We're nice and get crapped on. We fight back and are told 'we are better than that'.

We can't win for losing. :shrug:

[pipi_k]

217. What was to "fight back" against???

This woman was in the store minding her own business, albeit talking loudly on her cell phone.

Just because the OP didn't agree with what the woman was saying isn't cause for "fighting" anything or anybody.

[madeline_con]

146. No, that's not the best HopeHoops could do.

In fact, correcting the talking points one by one would have been even better.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

147. To someone who's having a phone conversation?

That's hardly realistic, or polite.

The woman wasn't talking to HH, she was talking on her phone to someone else. She was not arguing with HH, nor was she soliciting any conversation with HH.

The idea of his "correcting the talking points one by one" in a market checkout line is kind of unrealistic, I believe.................

[madeline_con]

148. If I have to listen them, they should have to listen to me. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

168. As I said in my original response to this OP,

HopeHoops would have been perfectly within his rights, as I see it, to have asked her, politely, to lower her voice. I've done that, and people have always immediately responded and been very nice about it.

The ugliness that HopeHoops exhibited is, I am certain, a source of terrible embarrassment for him. Otherwise, he wouldn't have questioned what he did in the OP. I'm hoping he exaggerated, but if he didn't, I am sure he'll never do anything like that again.

Now, I'm wondering if he's going to be allowed back in that particular store. If I were one of the shoppers who witnessed that scene, I'd be real sure to avoid him if I encountered him while shopping, and that's really too bad.........................

[SammyWinstonJack]

181. +1 Especially when they are spewing lies, damn lies! nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

182. Start by getting her attention, and putting your finger to your lips in that universal

"hush" signal. Then go from there.

[tbyg52]

81. I sure understand your feelings, and would have been saying the same thing, in my head

But, call me old-fashioned, I do not like four-letter words in public, unless, perhaps, you have just been severely physically injured..... ;->

[TahitiNut]

47. "Sorry, but..." -- almost always a lie and always condescending.

Quite possibly the most annoying preface to any statement.

[redqueen]

73. Oh bullshit... people say that when they don't want to hurt a friend's feelings...

but think that whatever unpleasant thing they have to say needs to be said anyway.

[EFerrari]

79. Sorry but is a respect marker. n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

149. Interesting.......

Why do you think that's so?

[TahitiNut]

188. "but" is often called the 'erasure word' in such sentences.

An 'erasure word' indicates that the preceding words were not intended to be regarded as true. The rhetorical device of 'sorry, but' or 'I'm sorry, but' typically announces a posture akin to the executioner about to lop off the victim's head. I can envisage a shrug and an absence of any compassion or regret of any kind. It's a verbal flourish often employed to assume the 'alpha dog' stance and, to me, drips with condescension.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

190. Got it -

There are times, though, when it's meant to convey "I respectfully disagree," which is a whole lot less loaded.

Yes, I agree, "Sorry, but" is not much more than a verbal tic. We've gotten so lazy with language, it makes me ache. That's why I asked you why it bothered you - because you are one of the few who systematically uses language quite beautifully, so I wanted to know.

Thanks........................

[pipi_k]

165. Well, there's always, "Excuse me, but..."

or "Pardon me, but..."

or even, "I don't know if you realize this, but...."

[virgdem]

8. Just the right amount of outrageous snark...

you did what you felt was right at the time. I don't know that I would have had the moxie to do what you did, but like me, your sensibilities have been pushed to the limit. I listen to these morons and my blood boils at their stupidity and arrogance. Good on ya.

[MissMarple]

10. Pretty good for a non confrontational pacifist. Everything right there in a quite colorful nutshell.

[nc4bo]

12. I've had some tempting moments sitting in my mother's doctor's office

(who voted for O btw) and nearly chewed my tongue in two because of the 2 or 3 dingleberries sitting behind us spewing RW rhetoric.

Not sure if I could do what you did, not sure if I'd even want to as that sort of harshness is usually greeted by more of the same, or worse.

I understand your frustrations, I really do and these morons really have earned a good, old fashioned telling-off but it's what THEY do. With both sides hollering, you lose the opportunity to teach.

I'd be sooo tempted, oh yes I would, but I just don't think I could do it quite like that.

ETA: Almost forgot, after ALL that, I still voted for that last poll answer ;)

[Obamanaut]

13. Would have loved to have seen this. nt

[derby378]

14. You've just received my Seal of Approval

:applause:

[madamesilverspurs]

15. The creature has limited capacity for recall.

The only thing she will remember when she's whining about you to her friends is your use of 'that word.'

I prefer a paraphrase of something I read years ago (don't remember where): If you will spare us the 'unintentional' lecture, we'll spare you the embarrassing knowledge of how utterly stupid you sound.

[Control-Z]

38. Oooh, excellent.

The only problem would be the inability of the lunatics to grasp the meaning of such a subtly stated message. Lunatic would only understand the part about "how utterly stupid you sound". Then again, that's good too.

[redqueen]

16. IMO that was way over the top.

If your object was to piss her off and most likely solidify her views, then well done.

Also if it was just to get attention... I guess you succeeded.

If, on the other hand, you had any hope that she might actually process anything that you were saying re: FOX and bullshit talking points... you probably failed.

[EFerrari]

20. Ordering someone to hang up their phone in that way

is menacing and can probably be prosecuted as some kind of threat if not assault.

[redqueen]

88. Definitely threatening behavior.

I'd like to think this is all a made-up story.

And it's sad how many here are cheering it on.

We're really not so different from them, after all.

[Qutzupalotl]

18. Over the top, but I'm reccing anyway.

Cuz it did make me laugh.

[Catshrink]

19. I think these "astroturfers" are caught up in the belief that everyone thinks like they do...

and that they are part of a groundswell against that socialist uppity you know what in the WH. Letting them know that not everyone thinks like they do and challenging them to think is a good thing. Cause and effect is good too -- grocery cart full of ice cream and cookies means, well, I did that for years and had the butt to show for it but I finally wised up when my second sister was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. (Yeah, I know, TMI.)

[earth mom]

21. Normally I would applaud someone telling off a freeper, but

attacking what she eats in regard to her weight was wrong.

Saying she needs to educate herself and that she's being lied to by Faux was all you needed to say.

[Edweird]

22. Hey, go for it. Just don't put yourself in danger unecessarily.

Good for you.

[Parker CA]

23. Over the top, but I would've loved to see it. n/t.

[lady raven]

24. My opinion

Confronting her calmly- I'm all for that. But your language didn't help, nor did the mention of the food in her cart. Profanity and personal insults - We are above that. Just because they are nasty doesn't mean that we should be as well. We're the good guys here.

[ddeclue]

25. Nope - the best way to shut up a bully is to confront them and back them down.

They act like jack asses until someone makes it clear that their obnoxious behavior won't be tolerated. When you get in their face and make it clear that you aren't afraid of them, they back down because they are the ones afraid.

You did it perfectly and the swearing WAS necessary to make the point.

Good fucking job!

:rofl:

[Viper Mad]

28. For sure. Anyone who would dare talk on a cellphone in the store should be smacked upside the head

and loudly berated.

[ddeclue]

29. Yep....I'm all for it..

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

37. Who the hell was she "bullying"?

If you have to swear to make your point, your conversation skills are sorely lacking.

[ddeclue]

She was bullying by trying to impose her politics on other people

who weren't interested - in a super market.

I've seen it in work environments, restaurants, etc. and it's not appropriate behavior, it's intruding on other people's peace and quiet.

Doug D.

[EFerrari]

48. Using physical force to remedy the situation is more inappropriate.

[madeline_con]

162. Who used physical force?

You keep embellishing the OP, and it's getting better and better, every time you tell it. Next thing you know, Hopehoops pulled a howitzer from beneath a coat. :rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. "trying to impose her politics on other people"

Bullshit. She was talking on a cellphone, and my guess is that absent the over the top actions of the OP, she'd have never known that person was even there. If she had been supporting healthcare reform, the OP would never have said a single word, and you wouldn't be accusing her of trying to impose anything on anyone.

At least be honest.

What is intruding on other people's peace and quiet? Discussing a political topic in public? Or disagreeing with you?

[Kaleva]

62. How was she trying to impose her politics on others?

She was talking to someone on her cell phone and the author of the OP overheard her conversation.

[GodlyDemocrat]

She was talking on her own cell phone, for crying out loud

She just got verbally assaulted by a random man in a grocery store.

I wouldn't be surprised if the conservative blogs pick up on this thread to cast those that support universal health care as "evil". The OP's behavior is totally inexcusable.

[Kansas Wyatt]

212. Are you sure there was an actual person on the other end of her alleged call?

I would not have done what the OP did... I ALWAYS get my point across with just 'a look' and the Dumbfuckistan morons STFU and move on in a hurry.

[Kansas Wyatt]

209. I agree

She deserved to have it all thrown back in her face.

[Posteritatis]

230. Yeah, only we're allowed to do that! (nt)

[EFerrari]

46. If the OP had to grab her grocery cart and order this woman around

with that language, that makes the OP the bully.

[loyalkydem]

26. If I could

bow to you for being awsome I would. But I'd proably throw my back even further out of wack.

[damntexdem]

30. Way over the top -- but I love it.

Still, she wasn't disrupting a meeting, although she was impolitely noise polluting.

[Renew Deal]

32. You're out of line with the personal attacks about her cart

But it's hilarious and well deserved. :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

33. You're my hero.

[louis-t]

34. Enough's enough.

I have been holding back a long time. No more Mr. Nice Guy. I've been letting people have it with both barrels.

Here's my latest. A business associate in FL (where else?)sent me this: (shoot, my paragraphs won't work right)

You must be watching NBC and CBS alot. That is where the kind of stuff you are talking about comes from.
It may be true that SOME of the protestors are well organized. It is most definitely true that MOST are not.
I was at the Tampa forum that made the national news last week. Kathy Castor, a Fl congress woman had the whole thing fixed. She let her health care supporters in the back door, filling most of the seats. Then she had union tuffs at the front door, only allowing a handful of protestors in. I didn't get in and I saw what they were doing. It was FIXED. They intentionally wanted the protestors to make a scene.
Also, I am not part of any group but a local group of folks living and working right here in Pasco County. "Follow the Money?"...are you kidding? What money? If you can show me the money, we could sure use some funds in our Pasco Patriots group. We are not supported or aligned with any republican or any other group. As a matter of truth, our group, as most groups around the country are made up of republicans, democrats and independents.(I am an independent).
The left wing has, as is their usual tactic, turned ordinary people upset about the future of our health care and national debt, into boogey men being managed by big bucks Republicans. That is so not true. If it weren't so harmful when intelligent people buy into it, it would be laughable.
This is so hypocritical...the dems took over the senate and house in the last 2 elections because of the serious big bucks poored into the campaigns by ACORN and SOROS and other leftist organizers. They are accusing the conservative movement of what they have done for decades.
Personally, I would like to see some of those big bucks conservatives step forward and support our little grassroots groups. There is so much dissatisfaction among MOST Americans and the dissatisfaction is growing.
Do you really look at those people at town meetings and see robots and brainwashed, unamerican radical people? Come on, Lou. You are smarter than that. Most of those people are just like you and me. They want to be heard. Seniors afraid, justifyably so, that they will be unable to keep their health care under the Obamacare.They are young family people who don't want to be burdened with taxes beyond their means to pay. They are small business people who won't be able to afford the burdens placed on them. They want the government to know what they think and they are outraged that the government is using name-calling and ridicule when they are exercizing their rights as American citizens. And believe me, I'm gonna support them with all the breath I have in my body. As so many people are, I am angry at being ridiculed and called radical, un-american, anarchist and Nazi just because I don't agree with the current administration. The government refuses to listen
The article I sent you is not written by some radical. Did you read it? Did you see her credentials? Did you read that she is a black American? Come on!!! She is no wild eyed radical, and neither am I.
I have started reading the health care bill. It is so cumbersome, poorly written, difficult to understand, that it is ridiculous. It also contains things the Govt is trying to minimize or outright deny is there that will harm us all. Thats the 650 page Senate version. The House version is over 1000 pages and is even worse, so friends of mine who read it have said. I understand why few of the Congress and Senate have read either of them. But that is THEIR JOB!!! But I wanted to form my own opinion. Why don't you do the same. Form your own opinion instead of listening to one-sided "news" reports?
Fox News primetime has almost doubled its viewership in the last few months because Americans want to hear what is going on. You don't see both sides on CNN or NBC or CBS or ABC. People want to know BOTH sides of an issue. People are tired of being spoon fed what Washington wants them to know. Most radio talk show hosts are conservatives because people turn off the liberals, for Gods sake. The liberals are trying to pass laws to restrict, not to be "FAIR" but because its the only way to make people listen to their socialist agenda. Thank you very much, but I'll listen to whom I wish when I wish. I don't want liberals controling what I watch on TV or what I listen to on the radio.
Is Fox slanted toward the conservatives? For the most part, yes. But they give both sides of an issue. Always do. The other networks? Rarely if ever.
So, my friend, as you can tell, I agree with your relatives. I'm not a "birther", I'm no radical. I'm no racist. But as a independent conservative who has recently actually READ the US Constitution, I see much to be concerned and downright fearful of. The congress has taken actions that they have no right to do. They are destroying the Constitution that has made our country the great nation it has been. We are being destroyed from within by the liberals, and the true patriots standing up and trying to be heard are being slandered and minimalized.
Now, I have to ask, because I haven't a clue of what you meant...What lies have been told about OBAMA? That he is an avowed socialist? He has stated so himself. We are known by the company we keep. His closest political associates for years have been radical socialists. Even during the campaign it was known that he had the most extreme leftist voting record in the Senate. So is it a lie that he wants to turn the USA into a socialist government? His every action since taking office has been toward that aim. Every enactment since he came into office has been toward that goal...government control over every aspect of our lives. Hate to inform you, Lou, but government takeover of our economy is SOCIALISM.
It is just my opinion, Lou, but I would be thanking your conservative family and friends for seeing the light and trying to open your eyes to it.
I would venture to say you have not spent a week listening to Fox News from 5 - 9 pm, the prime times. I would venture to say you haven't spent even a day. If you had, you would not be saying what you have said. The brainwashing is not from Fox. Tune any other national news network during those times...that is where the brainwashing is being done.
God Bless you Lou. I wish you well, and hope you take it upon yourself to do a little study, maybe even attend one of the awful townhall meetings personally and see for yourself who the "nutjobs" are. They are probably your family, friends and neighbors!!
Come to Tampa in a couple weeks and you'll see me at one, again. Hopefully this time I will be allowed in.

Sorry it's so long. Here is my reply:


And when some Democrats stood up and protested at town halls (2005) or wherever, the right-wing media (Bill O'Reilly) called them Nazis. I can show you the clip of him saying it, if you like. They were escorted out, some were arrested. Now they call Democrats Nazis for trying to stop them from doing the same and worse. I have not seen any loudmouth, screaming disruptors from the right arrested, and only if they start fights (happening more and more) are they escorted out. They have been fed lies about this health plan. That is why they are so angry. They have been instructed to shout down anyone who tries to talk. They don't want 'debate' or 'discussion'. Every time one of the protesters actually says something instead of just shouting like an idiot, it is usually a fear of some made-up, phony outrage they heard on Fox. And the ones that aren't organized are being egged on and lied to by the ones who are organized.
You DO know that the supposed "death panel" part of the bill was thought up by a Republican, don't you? I didn't make that up. And, of course, it has nothing to do with any death panel. You have to actually READ it instead of letting Fox news translate it for you.
Every day there is a new lie promoted by a right-wing talking head or politician. They HAVE to lie. It is the only way Republicans can win. They are morally bankrupt (every week, a different family values guy gets caught with his pants down, gay, straight, or whatever), ethically challenged (where do I start), their ideas don't work (giving tax breaks to the richest in the country does NOT create jobs) and they are scared to death that they will never see another conservative majority anywhere in government. They are desperate, they have to make things up, have to tell wild stories to scare people. Just to name one, some right-wing nitwit claimed that Stephen Hawkings would be dead if he had to put up with the terrible 'socialist' health system in England. They would have decided he is "worthless" and had no value and therefore deserved to die. Uh, Stephen Hawkings lives in the U.K. and has been kept alive for over 40 years by that system. The people writing these stories are not living in their parents basement. They are writers actually employed by and paid by a media outlet. Every one of the lies promoted by the right is shot down within a day. If they had a legitimate beef about ANYTHING, they wouldn't have to lie to scare people.
The 'money' I am talking about is the medical insurers, suppliers and pharmaceuticals that don't want you to pay less for drugs, hospital stays, nursing home care, health insurance. They want you to pay more. They don't want competition. Apparently, you would rather have a for-profit insurance company make a decision about whether they will pay for your treatment or stuff the money in someone else's pocket.
And this is NOT a government 'takeover' of the health care industry.You are repeating the Fox (so-called) news talking points almost verbatum. It's always about "he's gunna, he's gunna". Show me what has been done in the last 6 months to turn this country 'socialist'? Name it, and PROVE it. You can't do it. You are being fed a steady stream of lies. This is about hatred, this is about Republicans being incensed that a black man could actually be elected president in this country. They will believe anything bad about him without proof, without facts because they WANT to believe it.
I am sorry you are so angry about this. If you name off the last ten phony outrages Fox promotes, I will prove to you they are all lies, made up, phony distortions of reality. And as far as your congress woman 'fixing' anything? Can you blame someone who has to deal with a bunch of screaming nuts for trying to minimize disruptions in a meeting so she can actually have a sane conversation with the people actually living in her district? But it's OK because the government "won't listen". So, you'll exercize your right to scream and threaten people and no one should try to stop you. You are in the minority, a very loud minority, but still a minority. Most people in this country understand what is at stake.
If Republicans had ONE THING in the last 8 years that they could point to and say it was successful, they wouldn't have to do this now (and you, and most of my Republican friends, would not be calling yourselves 'independents' now). All they would have to do is say "we stand by our record". They can't We had a bunch of guys who would rather kill hundreds of thousands of people just in case some of them might be terrorists. We had a bunch of guys who said it's OK to torture, OK to imprison American citizens with no trial, OK to politicize the justice department, OK to put us so far in debt we may never get out. And by the way, did bush do ANYTHING to outlaw abortion? He had a majority in both houses and the Supreme Court and it was never even brought up. You may not be a drooling radical, but you are aligning yourself with some of the scariest people in the country right now who would threaten, and even kill others to make a point. This is not about "normal, everyday people", this is about a huge industry that is using you to keep things the same. Republicans may talk about reform, but they will never actually DO anything. They know which side their bread is buttered on.
You are ranting about some liberal 'agenda' and you are not making any sense. Saying "every act he has done is moving us toward..." or "they are destroying the Constitiution" is not PROVING anything. It is rhetoric, and it works very well with people who don't actually want to think for themselves. HOW is he destroying the Constitution? What action is causing this horror? I didn't hear you screaming when bush was using the Constitution for a doormat while claiming he was 'protecting' us. I had an aunt who said "Clinton's taking away all our rights!!!" I asked her to name one and she couldn't. But she knew he was doing it cuz Fox news told her so.
And please, tell me how Acorn is so evil? What have they done? Did they murder babies? Did they somehow fix an election? Did they jam the phone lines of a group that drove people to polling places. Oh wait, that was Republicans that did that.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. Totally unreadable -

FYI...............

[BlooInBloo]

50. BWAHAHAAHAAAA!!!!

I'm sure you're saying something important, but I can't imagine anyone will ever read it.

[nc4bo]

52. The messed up part of it is that you can easily "edit" your own post

That's what I'd have done, H/H(his/her)MMV.

[ldf]

173. imagine again

i read it and it was a great reply to an enabler of lies.

[ldf]

174. thanks for sharing

you did good!!! yes, hard to read, but well worth it.

as long as we all continue to be nice, we will get shat upon.

the last thing we want to be is passionate, with the truth... it may actually offend someone...

:sarcasm:

[Texasgal]

187. eyes. glazed.over

what?

[Ilsa]

191. Sorry, I only do serious reading when I'm going to be graded.

:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:

Wake me up when the clif notes are published.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Way to raise the level of discourse, Turbo. I'm sure there are a ton of DU'ers who would pat you on

the back for that and tell you how proud of you they are. Not this one though.

Your gender is undeclared, but if you are a man, and I heard you talking to a woman like that, I'd have politely demanded that you stop. If you refused, I'd have asked the manager to remove you from the store. If that failed, I'd have gotten in between you and her. No one deserves to be spoken to in that rude fashion, in public. I hope you're quite proud of yourself.

"large woman... with a cartoon-like high pitched voice... the skinny guy..." I bet you love being perfect, huh? You sound like a judgmental ass and if you talked like that to someone you didn't know, who hadn't done anything in the world to you but have a different opinion, my guess is that you've surely done it before and will surely do it again.

I'm sure you couldn't care less but I'm not proud to be a member of the same club as you, no matter how large it is.

[Bunny]

66. .

:applause:

[Kaleva]

36. You got personal thus you accomplished nothing

[gratuitous]

39. Were you out of line? Probably

But for having had this experience, you'll do better next time. I rather wish I had been there to see it, though.

[EFerrari]

43. Probably? So, DU is wobbly about bullying women in grocery stores now?

:wtf:

[gratuitous]

53. Well I wasn't actually, you know, there

From the account, I'd have to say "probably." But if you were there and can supply some more information, I'd be glad to hear it. On the other hand, if you weren't there, I'm not sure why you would think you have all the facts in hand?

[EFerrari]

60. On what planet is it okay to do that to a woman in a grocery story?

I turned around, put my hands on either side of her cart, and as best as I can remember, the exchange went like this (I did not raise my voice)...

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

"Hang on a minute, WHAT?"

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

[gratuitous]

64. Thanks but I am able to read and comprehend

And you have nothing except bold face to add? No additional facts? You weren't there? Thanks for playing.

[EFerrari]

68. You didn't answer my question. Are you also in the habit of threatening women

in grocery stores? Well done, progressive!

[redqueen]

71. Those are the participant's own words.

The person who did those things has admitted it.

What more do you need to know?

[billh58]

78. At what point

do people engaged in loud public conversations on a cell phone become responsible for what they say? Free speech works in both directions, and it seems that rude behavior being met with rude behavior should be allowed.

In a public forum, if others can hear what you say, it is no longer a private conversation. Public free speech is never protected from rebuttal, unless the rebuttal rises to the level of a public nuisance or personal threat.

[EFerrari]

84. Grabbing someone's grocery cart and ordering them to end their call is not free speech.

I hate these loudmouths who do that and confront them but physically trying to get them to change their behavior is a threat if not worse.

If your mother were treated that way by anyone, how would you like it?

Geezus. Apparently, anything can be rationalized around here any more.

[billh58]

96. Didn't say

that I agreed with the physical part of the confrontation, and this person may have crossed the line. My point was that rude behavior being met with equally rude behavior is totally acceptable in my book -- regardless of gender, physical size, or political persuasion.

Personally, I usually go for demeaning wit when confronting assholes, rather than intimidation -- and don't take this personally...;-)

[EFerrari]

98. I have no problem confronting these people. But there are limits.

You don't get into their space. You don't touch them or their stuff. That's assault.

[DeschutesRiver]

224. Agree - the assault is nothing different than the rethugs are doing at the town halls

I completely agree with the frustration felt, and don't mind confronting in the slightest myself.

But all the OP did was lose his/her temper. No points were made, no minds were changed, no arguments of merit ensued, nothing happened to advance the discussion of health care reform. Someone just blew a gasket and vented on a complete stranger. The person unintentionally spoke too loud, like some do on phones, and no problem with asking them to take it elsewhere, if you couldn't handle the noise level. But that didn't happen.

I am surprised she didn't file a complaint about the assault - if a repub had done this to me, it wouldn't have gone well for them. So how is it different when a liberal does it to a conservative because they can't handle hearing the false talking points in their presence? From that woman's perspective, it isn't different at all. The OP disagree with her point of view, and assaulted her in public. Not good.

fwiw, I have made bad judgment calls and done similar stuff in my youth - it wasn't right, but there you go. Happens.

[MoonlitwingsX]

42. They wouldn't believe it if you told them..

But the accusation I heard during the dark Bush Years is that "lefties don't protest for the ideals, they protest because they have fun together", etc. Grouped up, I think this may apply to the righties more, not forgetting that their crazy ideologies and arguments find validation amongst a group of people patting their backs and reassuring them. Perhaps when they're alone, it may sink in.

Or they may just go to their next republitard gathering and find reassurance in their crazy beliefs once more.

[Strong Atheist]

222. Extremely Belated Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[greguganus]

44. You're lucky she didn't have a CCW permit and blew you away. n/t

[TahitiNut]

45. While one could quibble with your style, a FAR BIGGER ERROR is keeping quiet.

When dealing with the current extremes of politics, Emily Post is NOT a recommended reference resource. A significant part of the mess we find ourselve in today, which has been building over the last 30-35 years, is due to "liberals" willingly wearing the hair shirt and behaving like children who should be "seen and not heard."

It's bullshit.

The operative advice to a 'civil' American in exercising free speech is to avoid discussing sex, politics, and religion. Hell ... those are the topics most WORTH discussing! One of the reasons we, as a 'culture,' are so damnably ignorant in all three of those topics is the fact we AVOID such discussions. It must stop.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

56. You support this shit?

I turned around, put my hands on either side of her cart, and as best as I can remember, the exchange went like this (I did not raise my voice)...

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

That's digusting.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

65. So people who see it differently from you

are "fucking idiots"?

Nice open mind you've got there, sweetie.

You belong in a pack of dogs, so your analogy was very well-chosen.

But I doubt you'll understand how well-chosen it was, or why.

I'm glad you're happy being part of a dog pack. Others would rather play with sentient humans.

Don't worry - no one's pressuring you - the 'fucking idiots" know when leave the dogs alone....................

[greguganus]

51. I'm wondering if this had been a 250-pound muscle man if you would have done anything. n/t

[redqueen]

58. I imagine the possibility of saying something is there...

but cursing them out, insulting them and grabbing the cart? I sincerely doubt it.

[EFerrari]

70. Geezus, thank you.

I may just have to log out for a while. This thread is not DU's finest moment, either.

[madeline_con]

166. The ole thuggery against women thing, huh? n/t

[704wipes]

167. so log the fuck out

and go write a nice polite letter to Fox News about how they are misguiding the sheeple...

[lukasahero]

136. Thank you!

I was wondering the very same thing.

[HopeHoops]

205. Oh yeah, same thing, only quicker.

[crazy_vanilla]

super cool - I wish I could talk like that at a moment's notice

I usually think of these things long after the confrontation is over.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

55. For all of you who condemn HopeHoops:

These people do NOT understand subtlety!

You have to use their weapons against them.

You were not out of line, kiddo...

K&R

[EFerrari]

63. I can't believe you support this menacing behavior. Literally, I can't.

I turned around, put my hands on either side of her cart, and as best as I can remember, the exchange went like this (I did not raise my voice)...

"Shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking cell phone."

:wow:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

72. Why do I?

I'll tell you why.

I'm so fucking tired of Democrats being steamrollered by these right-wing idiots.

We need to fight back, and this is one way to do it.

It may not be the best way, but it's a start.

That's why.

I am capable of being angry, and that's why I reacted the way I did.

That woman made me angry.

[EFerrari]

75. It's a start to menace women at the market?

:wow:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

85. Menacing is not a good idea.

HopeHoops wanted to get her attention. I agree that there are better more civilized ways to do that.

But the point is: confrontation is a good idea.

It could have been done better, I agree.

Still, we need to confront them, wherever we find them.

[EFerrari]

86. When someone "tries to get my attention" physically, EDIT

I call the police.

And I regularly confront people who put their "private" calls in my face.

ETA: Peggy, I was also married to someone who didn't recognize that using physical force was not "civil". I'm sorry if I have been blunt.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

89. Those are appropriate actions on your part. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

93. No worries, sweetie!

I am not offended; your bluntness is very appropriate...

[Lars39]

90. I've had to swear out a warrant for a person's arrest for doing what HopeHoops did.

It's called verbal assault.

[EFerrari]

92. This thread has 15 votes. Unbelievable.

DU votes for violence against women, I guess.

[cherokeeprogressive]

97. I'm actually glad my unrec didn't keep this from The Greatest Page.

This type of action needs to be seen by as many people as possible, and held out as being totally inappropriate and possibly arrestable behavior.

[EFerrari]

99. I'm glad you're here. The last thing we need is Democrats

intimidating and physically threatening women in public AND BEING CHEERED for it. :wtf:

[cherokeeprogressive]

108. This thread, and the positive reactions to physically intimidating a woman make me very sad indeed.

No way would I have allowed it to continue, if it happened at all.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

150. Same here -

can you imagine the reaction if the positions had been reversed?

I don't understand how people who would honestly identify themselves as being on the left side of the socio-political spectrum would find something like this acceptable..........................

[redqueen]

94. And it's being cheered... this is shameful. (nt)

[Scout]

237. funny, when those anti-abortion assholes at the clinics "verbally assualt"

the women going in by calling them murderers, baby-killers, sluts, following them and shoving plastic fetus dolls in their face ... that's just free speech!

[lukasahero]

137. How would you feel if one of "them" did that to you? eom

[Tangerine LaBamba]

155. Peggy, imagine this -

you are in the checkout line at the market. You're on the phone with a friend, talking about how much you like how Obama's working this health care bill, and a man in front of you wheels around, grabs your cart, and yells at you the way Hope Hoops said he did in the OP.

He used the same vile language, he insults your intelligence, your appearance, your IQ, your choice of foods, and the whole time, he's holding on to your cart. He is not quiet about it. People are staring.

And he's doing this because he didn't like what you were saying to your friend on your cell phone.

You would hang up and tell the man that he was right?

Because that's what you're saying here, and, Peggy, I really didn't think that was part of your thinking.

But, it's good to be surprised, so I will just be surprised..................................

[pipi_k]

218. And nastiness accomplishes the mission, huh?

How many RWers have you persuaded using nastiness?

None, I'll bet.

Who has EVER been swayed to another opinion by rude and nasty behavior?


No doubt the RWers are saying the same about us ...they're out there saying, "Those people don't understand subtlety", so they show up at town hall meetings with nasty signs and yelling and screaming. Both sides think the other side "don't understand subtlety" so they screech at each other like fucking fishwives and don't accomplish a damned thing except to work off a bit of hostility.

Sort of reminds me of a bunch of monkeys in the jungle having a big old monkey free-for-all, screaming monkey curses and flinging feces at each other.

[petronius]

57. You were an asshole (assuming this story was true)

Had I been there, I would have sided with the woman you harassed...

[Viper Mad]

102. I so agree with you. Is any obstreporous behavior excusable because 'they do it too'?

Wow.

[srf Rantz]

59. must be something going around

I was just looking to post my similar story of blowing my top today.

I can't start posts for some reason, so I'll post it here.

I wrote this once I got home, sharing in full here for your comments:

========================

well I blew it.

just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

as a rule I don't have a lot of interaction with people, I live alone in the country on my own little slice of paradise and I like it just fine that way.

that has its up and downsides.

when something like this current hysteria over health care comes along I don't have other people to have rational and reasoned discussions with, so I often stew in my frustration over what I see going on and have no normal outlet to express myself.

and the flood of lies and misinformation about the health reform proposals out there has me plenty pissed off.

so sometimes I lose it.

since my operation I've been going to the gym regularly. missed the last week because of a bad cold. I don't watch TV at home, don't even have the full cable news choices. there is a long row of television screens hanging in front of all the exercise machines. I try to not be positioned where I can see the propaganda channel, but sometimes you just can't avoid it. and even though you don't get the sound you can read the captions. so after more than an hour of really bullshit lies and misrepresentation on the screens in front of me, I hear this guy having a nice quiet conversation over the health care reform debate a few machines away from me. the first time he said something about "government run health care" I just bit my toungue. as he went on and on about "government can't run anything right" and repeated, no matter what his friend said in defense of health care reform, that "I just don't like the idea of government run health care" I found myself really getting a good workout on the machine I was using, but approaching redline on chiming in.

In an attempt to release the pressure, I muttered loud enough so nearby folks could hear, like George Costanza, "I'm getting ready to lose it, if I hear one more reference to government run health care" the lady next to me, who embarrassingly turned out to be the guy's wife, said, "sorry to tell you but I agree with him".

to which I replied, still calmly and reasonably, "ok, now get this, there is no proposal for a government takeover of health care." I repeated it 3 times like a broken record, hoping somehow the repetition would help it sink in.

at which point the machine beeped that I was finished with my routine. and like Pavlov's dog I reacted without any conscious self-control.

walking over to the guy, and filled with shaking rage, that I was not really aware of, and I'm sure was pretty intimidating, but was not my intention, but nonetheless, I'm sure prevented my message from having any positive effect, I let loose with something like the following tirade.

"so you don't like government run healthcare? well let me tell you about private for-profit healthcare. pulling up my shirt to show my recent heart surgery scar. you see this? you're afraid of having a govt. bureaucrat between you and your health care decisions? you afraid of death panels? well, there already are bureaucrats and death panels making health care decisions for us. and all they care about is the bottom line, making money. when I was diagnosed with the heart condition, and surgery was recommended, they rescinded my policy. I'm sure they gave a fat bonus to the bureaucrat who came up with the reasons to do that. after I fought that for months and won, they called it a pre-existing condition even tho it was diagnosed months after I had bought the policy. then I had to wait a year before having the surgery because they wouldn't cover anything including the expensive tests that diagnosed the "pre-existing" condition, knowing that I could drop dead at any moment and could not get the treatment my doctor recommended or even pay for more tests to keep an eye on it. that's private for profit health care for you."

"well" he said sarcastically "I'm all straightened out now."

"good" I said and headed for a nice cold shower, knowing that I had accomplished exactly nothing.

all the way home my right leg and arm kept uncontrollably shaking, like parkinson's or something, shaking with rage.

pointless and useless rage.

and so it goes...

[redqueen]

67. BRILLIANT!

:applause:

THAT's how to talk to people... not as if they're the liberal and we're the ranting, rude right-winger.

You were shaking with rage, but you acted as an adult, and kept your composure. Bra-fucking-vo!

:yourock:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

160. It sounds to me -

and it's just my opinion - that you've got other stuff going on besides anger over the health care matter.

It's not good to get that angry because someone has a political view different from yours.

Maybe you should socialize more, or take singing lessons, or something like that? The gym's obviously not enough for you to work it off.

But that kind of shaking rage seems wildly out of proportion to what transpired.

You gotta take care of yourself.....................

[noiretextatique]

61. i think you gave her a lot to think about eom

[Control-Z]

74. Way over the top

Not that I would not have thought about saying the same. Not that I wouldn't have loved to take her down, considering how angry people like her make me. But there were appropriate things you could have said that would have accomplished a lot more.

Problem for me in a situation like yours is I can never think of that perfect but appropriate thing to say while I'm upset. I know that about myself. So I almost always choose to say nothing. Then I kick myself all the way home thinking of all the things I could have said, if only I had thought of them at the time. :)

[ZombieHorde]

76. I would not do that, I would not advise anyone else to that, but I would have laughed at you doing

that. I think you were out of line, but still funny.

The RW are looking goofier than the LW right now, we should keep it this way.

[ConnorMarc]

77. You Fucking Rock Dude!!!

Seriosulay...ahh respeck yo authoratahhh!!!

[crazyjoe]

80. bullshit, i don't believe you for a second

[greguganus]

83. +1 n/t

[GodlyDemocrat]

95. Perhaps

[zbdent]

82. My vote ... yes ... the use of the word "Fuck" was over the top ...

but, you did win the award for "Most creative use of the word Fuck" ...

And here's our presenter ... Eccentrica Gallumbits, the triple-breasted whore from Eroticon Six ...

[GodlyDemocrat]

87. Not cool at all

I think you know you were out of line, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this here.

Frankly, I agreed with the content of what you posted as your conversation. But anybody that uses profanity and slurs unsolicited to a stranger in public is horrible. I'm not saying to be judgmental, because you may be a nice guy overall, but just think how it would feel if you got berated in public by a complete stranger and called "a fat fuck", especially if you have had a long-term struggle with your weight. How would YOU feel?

You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Frankly, this lady probably was hurt by waht you said and you may have validated to her that people who support universal health care are just a bunch of meanies.

[proteus_lives]

91. You were very rude.

You lowered yourself and it's not appropriate.

Plus, if you didn't raise your voice, it sounds threatening.

Edit: It's also very dangerous to that to a woman. Her husband/son/boyfriend/father could come up from the back of the line or the parking lot and popped you in the mouth. And you know what? You would have deserved it.

[Liquorice]

100. You were wrong for sure. You shouldn't have done it. Even though

she was clearly very annoying, you had no right to tell her off like that. Telling her to hang up her cell phone? Wrong. Cursing at her? Wrong. Grabbing her cart and calling her stupid? Wrong and wrong. And judging what she eats and her weight? Wow, way over the top. It also sounds like you tried to physically intimidate her by grabbing her cart. I wonder whether you would have behaved this way toward a man... I doubt it.

[Throd]

101. I don't think this really happened.

[TexasObserver]

103. I don't condone it, but I do understand it.

Sounds like something I would have done 25-30 years ago.

[ThatsMyBarack]

104. I myself could not have shouted at the "Astroturd"....

But sometimes somebody has to. Thanks to the OP for speaking up! :hi:

[EFerrari]

105. The OP didn't "speak" up. The OP assaulted this woman in public.

Go, Democrats! :sarcasm:

[Liquorice]

114. I used to be naive in thinking a true democrat would never be a

narrow-minded sexist, or a bully, etc. I've since learned that these types of people come in all political persuasions.

[EFerrari]

115. Yes, they do. Look at this thread.

[Liquorice]

117. Sadly, I'm not surprised that there are people here who agree with this reprehensible behavior. nt

[DevonRex]

106. I have to go with way over the top. If you had expressed your opinion

to her after she got off the phone and without cursing to high heaven, then I would be applauding your actions.

[cherokeeprogressive]

109. As would every other poster on this thread.

You put it perfectly.

[DevonRex]

112. Thank you kind sir. :) nt

[Jazzgirl]

107. Fuck the pig.

You did the right thing. I recently had the opportunity set a loud stupid woman straight in line. It felt really good and there were a lot of smiles around. :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

110. I hope the next time someone thinks you're a pig you don't get hurt.

[Throd]

123. And if I did the same thing to you?

At 6'-3" 230lbs with a bunch of shitty tattoos, I can be intimidating at times.

[cwydro]

220. "Fuck the pig"?

Nice, really nice.

[MilesColtrane]

111. Winning hearts and minds one at a time, are we?

[redqueen]

116. Precisely.

:thumbsup:

[malaise]

113. Where we differ is that I would never have touched her trolley

but I would have told her to STFU and take her ignorance away from the public.
She chose that spot to spread her propaganda - EPIC FAIL.

[EFerrari]

119. The implication is that the physcial force, the cursing and the orders

to get off the phone were acts of bravery, a "taming of the shrew" script if I ever saw one, when all three are acts of cowardice.

[HopeHoops]

206. Shit! I didn't think to use the word "shrew"!

:spank:

I was really tired at the time - hadn't slept well the previous night.

[gleaner]

118. You were just fine ;)

If more people would stand up to to idiots like that, we wouldn't be having such a struggle now. She got exactly what she deserved. She was called down in public in a way she will not be likely to forget, she was exposed as a fraud and an ignoramus who can't be bothered to inform herself on some of the most important issues we will ever have to deal with, and at the same time you told everyone around you the truth. Now maybe they will want to look into it more deeply, will inform others even if by simply repeating what happened in the market today, and a little more truth will be out there.

I can't agree with the people who say you were way over the top, because I once told my health insurance company representative at the prescription drug branch that he was helping to enable the war in Iraq by working for the pharmaceutical company which supplied the drugs. The pharmaceutical company had been a heavy contributor to the Bush campaign, and I told him that by working there and supporting their operations, he was supporting the Bush policies. I was really furious that day. I have a temper that floats and eats it all up and then blows up suddenly when I have exceeded my capacity for dealing with crap. It is not a good way to be, but sometimes it keeps my head from exploding. The young man at the drug company was at a loss for words, but he finally got my prescriptions right. He also told me that he would think about what I had said. He had not realized that his company had contributed to Bush. He didn't like Bush either, it seems.

If more of us stood up and bit back, maybe the conservative savants would not feel so free to posture and disrupt and try to steal our country from us; then tell us they are really doing all of this for our own good. Feh.

[Emit]

120. It's Called Freedom of Speech, Baby

On edit, Next time, though, perhaps refrain from using the f word and don't grab the cart. That could be perceived as a physical threat and may get you in trouble.

[EFerrari]

122. Assault is not freedom of speech.

[Emit]

124. EFerrari, as you were responding I was editing, lol, to add that the OPer

should refrain from some of their actions if there is a next time. I see your point entirely.

[EFerrari]

125. I'm sorry, Emit!

I'm a little overwhelmed by how easily this is being accepted. :hi:

[Emit]

130. S'okay! I understand the frustration of the OPer, though, I really do

Having gone door to door since the 2004 elections, you can imagine how many strange encounters I've had that want to make my blood boil. Lessons to learn include (but certainly aren't limited to) picking and choosing your battles, keeping a physical distance and maintaining composure (leaving out the profanities). It's so hard to do when one feels at their wit's end. I doubt the OPer was as menacing as their story tells, else the grocery clerk and manager likely would've intervened ( I hope).

Anyway, I still think it's our freedom of speech to counter these folks, we just need to learn to take the high road in these situations, so I agree that keeping your hands to yourself and refraining from the use of provocative language is best. :hi:

[EFerrari]

131. Oh, me too. In my mind, I've eaten some of them.

But that's different. I can do anything I want in the privacy of my mind. lol

[DutchLiberal]

121. Way out of line.

You honestly think you're going to convince somebody when all you can do is insult them and yell 'fuck' all the time?

[Starry Messenger]

126. Way to reach out dude.

It's a sad day when people are complimenting you, and complaining about Hillary Clinton making a joke. Not that I believe your tale, it's more of an observation of human nature.

[emilyg]

127. You were rude.

[cynatnite]

128. She'll run back to her freeper friends and cry about being assaulted by an asshole...

Rude, condescending, and outright insulting.

You would have scored far more points by asking her if she was on medicare or if anyone in her family is on it. Ask if she or if anyone in her family is a veteran. Or ask if anyone in her family is disabled. Doing so in a respectful manner would have gotten you more points...

Instead, you made an ass of yourself in public.

[HopeHoops]

207. 24k ass, yep.

No argument there.

[Eric J in MN]

129. She wasn't talking to you. It was out-of-line to interrupt her. NT

NT

[Kickin_Donkey]

132. Good for you ...

let them have it.

I see we've got a lot of Brownshirt appeasers on this thread who always insist liberals act like churchmice and sing Kumbaya because "we don't want to be like them."

Fuck it. We're at the tipping point. Gotta fight fire with fire -- everywhere we can.

[EFerrari]

134. So you advocate intimidating women in grocery stores?

Just for the record.

You advocate physical confrontations with women?

You are the one advocating for brown shirt tactics, genius.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

164. "... Brownshirt appeasers..."?

Did you really type those words about people who have an opinion on the matter that's different from yours?

Yeah, tipping point. You just tipped your own self over. Don't bother getting up - you're fine down there, in the dirt.........

[cherokeeprogressive]

175. Why do I get the feeling that you wouldn't do the same thing the OP did if it were a man standing

behind you who was the same size as me. I'm 6' 215 lbs. and I'm pretty good at standing up for myself.

If you grabbed my shopping cart like that and started talking the same kind of shit, I might get to a point where I felt threatened. If you were holding onto my cart and I felt threatened, you'd be under my cart before you knew it. I'd give you one warning: "get your hands off of my cart", and if you didn't, we at the very least would be wrestling, and one of us, maybe both who knows, would leave the store battered and bruised. Additionally, if I had to go get something that we forgot, and I walked up on you talking to my Ms. like that, there wouldn't be a warning. I'd simply be whoopin' some _Donkey. And like I said, one or the other and possibly both of us would be leaving the store with a few bruises.

"fight fire with fire"... If you think FOR ONE MOMENT that grabbing the cart of a woman who was merely talking on her cell phone and verbally assaulting her because her ideology was different from yours is "fighthing fire with fire", think again. You'd be nothing more than a man who was so secure in his masculinity that he thought it okay to mistreat someone he knew couldn't kick his ass. THAT makes you less of a man, my man.

[HopeHoops]

208. I'd have done it sooner in that case.

I can hold my own.

[lukasahero]

133. Yes.

Obnoxiously rude. I won't even bother with the intimadation factor...

[Libertas1776]

138. Hmm

I think if you had asked her politely to keep her voice down first, you would have scored more points with me.

However, if she ignored you or responded with a snide a-holish remark and kept on blabbering...

Well, then all bets are off. Ding! Ding!

[southernyankeebelle]

139. I was with you until you started talking about the woman being fat

Just because she is fat doesn't necessarily means that she is stupid. After all I see alot of skinny idiots too. You can't reason with stupid. You have a right to say what you said but not about her weight. It had nothing to do with the issue.

[EFerrari]

140. So you missed that whole part where this liberal hero grabs her cart?

This is thuggery.

[HopeHoops]

210. She wasn't fat, she was large.

Big boned and tall - the voice was something out of a cartoon.

[Retired AF Dem]

141. So many people on the right and left acting like assholes

I need to win the Lotto so I can buy an island and live by myself.

[mnhtnbb]

142. The idea was great but the execution of it was way out of line.

You could have quite nicely suggested to her that if she wished to have a private conversation
she should lower her voice; if she wished to have a public conversation you'd be happy
to set her straight on the facts which she clearly doesn't have.

[tilsammans]

171. The best suggestion yet!

I've been calling people out on their shit . . . in a low-key way. Like:

"Oh really? I didn't know. Where did you hear that?"

"That's very interesting. I'd like to know more. Can you show me the source of that information?"

Of course, they CANNOT produce any facts. :dunce:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

143. Hitting this creature in the head with a mallet probably wouldn't get through to her

Maybe having someone close to her have cancer and have them lose their job and their health insurance would start getting through. Maybe losing her home and her children's education fund to pay medical bills would start getting through. But for some of the brain dead Fox zombies, nothing will work.

[TheKentuckian]

144. Other: They're still above ground so no foul

[cherokeeprogressive]

176. No autopsy, no foul, huh? Progressive, liberal thinking if I've ever seen it. n/t

[Brigid]

152. Absolutely not.

:yourock:

I would have paid money to see this. :rofl:

[npk]

153. "Dear respectable supermarket customer."

Would have been a better greeting to start off with. Then you could have invited her over for dinner and discussed things in a more civilized manner.

Of course you would have had to of been high at the time for this high level turd shinning to have been effective.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. Are you a man or a woman?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

169. I probably wouldn't have used the language you used but....

I probably would have challenged her also.

:applause:

[pipi_k]

172. so, let's say you were the one on the phone talking

Liberal/Democrat points to someone on the other end.

Some Conservative in front of you does the same thing to you as you did to this woman...right down to insulting your weight and making totally nasty remarks about the contents of your cart.

That would be OK?

Or is this sort of stuff only OK when it's US doing it? And actually I shouldn't even say "us" because I don't think public rudeness is cool at all no matter whom the recipient is.


So the Conservative goes over to FR and brags about it to all his/her friends and someone here sees it and links to the thread and I'll just bet that most of the people who think it's great here would think it's totally asshole-ish when it's done by a Republican/Conservative/Freeper.

Double standards suck.


Display the same type of behavior you expect from others.

[Sebastian Doyle]

178. It's actually really fucking rude to be carrying on a full conversation in line at the store anyway

Assholeturf talking points or not. I probably would have told the rude person to hang up regardless. If it was an emergency, they wouldn't be in line at the grocery store, so I'm not worried about anybody dying because some misinformed member of the DICK Arm(e)y couldn't catapult their propaganda.

However, I would not have commented on the content's of the Freeper's shopping cart. Unless they were buying some really shitty beer.

[cherokeeprogressive]

179. When did grocery stores become libraries? Do you demand silent contemplation from everyone,

everywhere? Are you really offended when someone within earshot talks loud enough so you can hear it? You must be one pissed off dude pretty often if the answer is yes. I'm assuming that you'd have told the phone-talker to hang up if she were promoting health care reform and trying to convince the person on the other end of the call that she was right and they were wrong. Would I be right?

Please.

Would you do the same if it were a couple, man/woman, woman/woman, man/man behind you talking face to face loud enough so you could hear it?

"carrying on a full conversation in line at the store..." I'll remember that the next time the Ms. and I go grocery shopping.

[Spider Jerusalem]

184. That you even have to ask whether you were out of line is pretty sad.

Of course you were out of line. You behaved in an astoundingly ill-mannered and offensive manner to a total stranger in a public place. No better and no different than a deranged right-winger who starts calling someone a godless commie who should leave the country for expressing an opinion they don't agree with in a private conversation that's none of their business.

[Obama2012]

185. Honestly, if anybody did that to me, they wouldn't know what the hell hit them

[Ilsa]

189. I love it! But next time, start singing, louder than she talks, this song:

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

Chorus

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Chorus (2x)

©1956 (renewed 1984), 1958 (renewed 1986) and 1970 TRO-Ludlow Music, Inc. (
BMI)

[PatSeg]

192. I wish I had been there!

I remember not long ago when we heard complaints about people not getting involved in politics. WELL I think there truly are some people shouldn't get involved. They don't have the knowledge, experience, or intelligence to comprehend complex issues. They used to watch Jerry Springer, and now they watch Glen Beck and think they are politically savvy. Hopefully a new craze will come along soon to lure them back to cheesy reality TV and let the grownups take care of policy.

[PatSeg]

194. OMG after writing this

I finished watching the Rachel Maddow show and Kent Jones made a similar point, showing clips from shows like Jerry Springer and alternating them with clips of the town hall meetings!

[Zomby Woof]

193. It doesn't pass the smell test

Kind of like a "Bouncy Ball" confrontation story - the kind she used to post in here every few days - but she was less prone to rage and profanity in her tall tales.

I learned a long time ago you can't reason with the unreasonable. Someone that immersed in the talking points and propaganda isn't going to be swayed by logic and calm. Likewise, neither will anger or personal insults change minds - they will be just as resolute in maintaining their delusions, and you will have sunk to their level of discourse.

So - if you MUST confront these kinds of people, you can at least break even by staying calm and rational. But the only way to "win" is not to play.

[Mugu]

195. I don't believe that there's an ounce of truth to your story. n/t

[Quantess]

197. I'm doubting it, myself.

[cwydro]

228. I sure hope it isn't true.

I would have been horrified to see someone berating another like that.

And though HopeHoops is a "man", and I am a small woman, I would have spoken up if I had witnessed it.

I hate bullies.

[orleans]

198. OMG! you must have been at a store in my neighborhood.

matter of fact, i think i know exactly who you were talking to!!!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

199. Yes, you were a bullying asshole and should be ashamed of yourself.

You weren't standing up to an aggressor, you were picking on someone, and you're lucky you didn't get thumped.

[slackmaster]

201. Other than attacking her weight, what you said about talking on the phone was fine

:hi:

[TexasObserver]

202. This wasn't assault. This wasn't "violence against women." This was rudeness.

My subject line above is intended to address both the OP and some of the ridiculous hyperbole in this thread, which attempts to make this about either assault or violence against women, neither of which are present.

The conduct of the OP was rude. It wasn't assault. It wasn't "violence against women." It was rudeness. It was yelling at another person. There was no threat involved. There was no "shut the fuck up or I'm going to bash your face in!" Those who consistently try to invent new facts lack credibility. When responding posters repeat their personal memes like that, all here can see they're making things up to fit the storyline they wish to tell and attack.

No, it's not about women. For all we know, the thread starter is a woman. Even if it isn't, there is absolutely nothing in the OP to justify characterizing this as "violence against women."

This was the thread starter going over the line confronting a loud mouth in a cashier's line in a public place. A simple "will you PLEASE stop broadcasting your private conversation to everyone within 30 feet of you, lady?" would have sufficed. Maybe add "and we don't need to hear your Fox News talking points memo, either!" See, that would have been a perfectly justifiable thing to say, and would likely have garnered support from those who hear it.

The outburst by the OP was excessive and unfortunate, but the attacks on the OP based upon the "violence against women" theme are more excessive and more unfortunate, for they indicate a willingness to contort facts in an attempt to make the controversy about something other than rudeness.

[Crabby Appleton]

203. Yes, you're an asshole and a bully

[TXRAT2]

204. What an ass

I think it would have been funnier than shit if she would have just pepper sprayed your ass and left you on the floor for the cops to pick up.

[HopeHoops]

211. LOL! You are SO RIGHT!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Strong Atheist]

242. Belated Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Zodiak]

213. Wow....some people posted in this thread way more than the OP

I think by the time a person has posted more than ten times in a thread, they have pretty much said all they are going to say and have drifted into "bemoaning the point" land. Sometimes the best rhetorical weapon is knowing when you have said enough.

Having said that, I agree that the OP's behavior was over the top. Next time, try to be more nice. Not for the freeper (who probably will not be swayed anyways), but for the rest of the onlookers. If you take up the banner of a political position, understand that how you are seen bearing that banner will reflect on the outcome of the issue. Others were watching.

And the "fat" accusation was just plain wrong.

I am afraid we are going to have many more of these kinds of confrontations in the future, and I blame the right for it. Their behavior with the town hall thuggery and damnable lies of late is designed to provoke a response from the left, and it is working. On our side of the spectrum, we cannot believe that these tactics are steering the healthcare debate into the weeds, and our frustration with this and a dwindling bill (at least on the Senate side) is boiling over into anger.

Then, of course, the debate is done because everyone is talking past one another. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT!

So if you must poke your finger in a freeper's eye (figuratively), do so with more poise and remember that others are watching and judging. We need to be smarter than this.

Oh, and one more thing....never post a personal story on the internet and invite people to judge. When it comes to judging people over the internet, all of the sudden a large proportion of people exercise their harshest form of judgment that they would not normally use for people they know. Case in point the person above who thinks it would be "funny" if violence was done to you.

[liberalhistorian]

214. I'm sorry, but you really had no right at all to tell someone

to "shut the fuck up and hang up the fucking phone", unless it's your minor child. Period.

[alarimer]

215. I want to punch anyone talking that loudly on the phone in public.

They fucking suck. I hate cell phones and the ignorant pieces of shit who use them at volume.

[pipi_k]

219. they do suck

and there are times when I feel like punching them too, but I sense in what you wrote that you would never lower yourself to being as rude, or ruder than, the person broadcasting their conversation to everyone within earshot.

:)

[adamuu]

221. way over the top, but I can't blame you. n/t

[ensho]

223. well done - hugs and kisses

I hate being out in public having to listen to someone talking on their phone.

[Hekate]

225. As long as the line you were in wasn't for 12 items or less, you were right in line! Loud cell talk

Loud cell phone talk just BEGS for input from us unwilling listeners, in my opinion. Ask a question in my presence? I'll be happy to give you my input. Make ill-informed statements? Why honey I'm right here to help you.

Good for you! :rofl:

Hekate

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

227. Do you have any children?

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

Welcome to DU, yoni lov !

:toast: :hi:

[Name removed]

232. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Liberal]

233. Lol nice....

I don't blame you for saying that, not one bit.

[lame54]

234. that's a scene you would see in a very well written movie...

and the audience would cheer

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Cid_B]

238. If this was a movie...

The OP would be the pretentious ass that the leading lady was supposed to marry to make her father happy who in the end would be dumped for the the weird but lovable leading man.

Right now I am thinking of the snob from Van Wilder, Richard....



I'll just echo what others have said

1) If I had seen this happen to a stranger I would have intervened

2) If you had tried this on my mother or spouse you put your health at risk

3) If the positions had been reversed and we heard this story about how a crazy right winger told a hefty left winger to shut the fuck up etc.. etc.. there would be no end to the rants of assault and abuse of women etc.. etc.. but because you are "right" and "know better" it a-ok

4) You know, I know, we all know that in no way did you advance the cause that you believe in. This was solely to make you feel good about yourself for being better than everyone else.

In conclusion to the OP... damn you suck and have some serious issues.

[lame54]

239. I liked it

[titoresque]

235. Good for you!

You did what most of us (whether we admit or not) would like to do in those situations.
I'm seriously sick and tired of hearing these asshole right wingers in public talking so loudly as to make sure anyone and everyone hears how completely ridiculous they sound. And they do it because for the past 8 years they actually thought this country was moving in the right direction, and because for the most part us Dems did not shut them up. They had free reign..........ENOUGH!!

[skygazer]

236. I put myself on the other side of this as a liberal

If some freeper behaved this way to me when I was talking on my cell phone to somebody about my political views, I would have been outraged and probably would have posted about it here. And I'll bet a whole lot of the same people who are cheering your action would have been condemning the freeper's action in my case.

I understand completely being frustrated and irritated listening to somebody's ignorance while trapped in the checkout line. But what did you accomplish? This whole idea of saving others from hearing inaccurate information is nonsense - the people around you already have their own views or don't really know much about the issue. If they've made up their minds, your outburst as well as her conversation aren't going to sway them either way - either they already agree with you or they think you're an asshole. If they don't know much about it, the whole incident hasn't enlightened them at all except to illustrate that those who support Obama may be violent and insane.

Better way to handle it? Ignore it.

[nini]

240. well said..

:thumbsup:

[cleveramerican]

243. I doubt you convinced her

but I admire your enthusiasm.
I probably would have endured it silently.

[chrisa]

246. wtf?

I'm almost certain nobody there was laughing with you. That rant makes absolutely no sense. Calling somebody a "tool" or "shill" makes as much sense as calling them a "CIA agent" or "Agent provocateur," especially to somebody who isn't used to internet boards. Also, resorting to making fun of someone's weight is just a step above "Yo Momma!" jokes. I see nothing to be proud of here. You're just some random guy / girl that started screaming at somebody else unprovoked. Mind your own business.

I'm also almost 100% this post is fiction. If not, I would apologize to the woman if you saw her again.

I've had this happen to me too, though. Except, I was talking on the cellphone about something nonpolitical, and some idiot turned around and gave me a dirty look, completely misunderstanding what I was talking about and thinking I was talking about something else. It's actually pretty hillarious, but it just makes people who don't mind their own business and butt in without context look like fools.