OK, I'll admit. I'm a little "torn" over the Michael Vick issue.

[johnaries]

On the one hand, I am a dog lover. I constantly joke that "the more I understand people, the more I love my dog!". Except it's not really a joke.

Personally, I would love nothing more than to see Vick stripped to his undies, doused in Aus Jus or other beef drippings, and then tossed into a pit with a bunch of hungry, angry dogs. There, dude. See how YOU like it! And not just big dogs - the little ones can be the most vicious! I can envision him fighting off a bunch of "lap-yappers" nipping at his legs and distracting him while the bigger dogs circle and then go in and rip him apart just as he watched other dogs being ripped apart. THAT would be "justice".

BUT, I just recently found out that he was "introduced" to dog-fighting at a young age.

Is it possible that he was "desensitized" to such atrocities at an age before he could make decisions on his own? Was he a child victim?

Personally, it makes me still want to throw him in that pit, except that I want to throw his Father in, first.

[frogcycle]

1. every sociopath has a background that led them there

they are still sociopaths

[Poiuyt]

2. I thought sociopaths had some kind of neurological disorder

Either they were born with it or their brains suffered some damage. Considering Michael's brother Marcus, it was probably genetic for both of them. I do not believe there is a cure for anti-social personality disorder (sociopath/psychopath), which presents a problem for the NFL.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. People throw that word around

without the slightest notion of what it means..........................

[johnaries]

8. Actually, that's a good question.

Back to the old "nature vs nurture" issue. IMHO, there is true "sociopathy" where it is simply a matter of the chemicals in your brain. However, I believe that it is possible to "brainwash" someone.

There is plenty of evidence that reinforced behavior (especially at a young age) can change brain chemistry.

[frogcycle]

19. that is a background that led them there

there are six billion people on this planet, about 4.5 billion too many.

trying to find a reason to feel sorry for one of the defective ones is just wasted energy

[johnaries]

3. So true. Vick has SEEMED to become an "animal rights activist",

but is he sincere, or is he just trying to cash a paycheck?

I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But....., frankly, it will take a lot for me to ever trust him again. Call me cynical, but I can't help but think "the light turning on in jail" meant that he realized that he wasn't making money, as opposed to any real "epiphany".

Maybe I'm too cynical? :shrug:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. I'm curious -

what set of events would ever conspire to put you in a position of having to trust Michael Vick?

You have some sort of personal or business relationship with him?

He's a football player. He did his time. What's the big deal?

[johnaries]

20. Honestly, because I HATE him so much!

Seriously, what he did creates an unreasonable blind hate through every bone of my body. Because I am a dog lover and I can only imagine the horrors he put those dogs through up until I have to block them off in my own mind.

If he ever came close to my own Dodger Dog.... he would not live. I might go to jail, but he would not be alive.

But I know that I had to overcome many prejudices and hate that I was "programmed to believe" from my early childhood. It wasn't easy.

So, if Vick really DID have a change of heart, then I want to support him fully. But I don't trust him. So I will naturally be over-critical of him.

If he is sincere and supports animal rigts issues, then I will support him fully in those efforts..

But if the motherfucker ever tries to even pet my fucking dog, he's a dead man.

Can you see my confusion?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. He's a football player -

I am guessing that you have no personal relationship with him. Right? So the odds of his approaching your dog are pretty slim. Right? Or non-existent?

He's a football player. You watch him or you don't. You root for him or you don't.

I fail to see where "trust" comes into it. You seem to be personalizing a situation that has absolutely nothing personal to it. You don't know the man, he doesn't know you.

I fail to see your confusion, sorry...........................

[Obama2012]

33. Because he's a violent sociopathic thug, who ought to still be in jail?

That's my problem with it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. You're using a term you don't understand -

you might mean "anti-social." "Sociopath" is a diagnosis that you can't really arrive at without extensive interviewing and testing.

My understanding is that he served his time. The law deemed him eligible for release.

You don't have to read about him or watch him play football or have anything to do with him, so I still don't understand your problem.

It's not like you know him, or that he knows you, or that anything in Vick's life affects anything in your life.

So I don't get it............................

[Obama2012]

48. Actually, I do understand the term

He fits the profile.

And, he should have served far more time, even the judge who convicted him said so.

If he molested a child, served his time, and was released, would you be so supportive of him returning to the NFL? I don't think so, at least, I fucking hope not.

[Cresent City Kid]

4. If we can't rehabilitate, we need to pre-habilitate

At some point we need to break the cycle of criminals influencing the next generation, but that rests on the monumental tasks of reducing poverty, and improving education. These would be tough if we all agreed to do them, but as we know there are powerful forces keeping things the same.

[UTUSN]

5. Neh. Don't be torn. If somebody fucks you (or your dog) ONCE, it's going to happen again. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

9. Statistics back you up on that one. nt

[johnaries]

12. Good point! That's the same advice I used to give to battered

women that I used to work with. Sad thing, there are a lot more women who are battered and abused than any of us suspect. For some strange reason, they tended to "trust me" and tell me things they wouldn't dare to tell anyone else. But I can tell you this, the number of battered women is much larger than anyone thinks it is. And everyone knows at least one - they just aren't telling you about it.

But you are correct - once they hit, they will do it again. And again. And again.

[UTUSN]

15. Too bad dogs can't talk. n/t

[johnaries]

17. Actually, I think they can. Too few people bother to listen.

Dogs "talk" loud and clear with their body language, if you pay attention. Unfortunately, too many people think they are just "dumb animals" and don't bother to try and "listen" or pay attention at all.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. +1 nt

[snagglepuss]

10. That could be but I don't think he should be in a job that has such prominence.

The fact that he wants to be back in the public eye indicates he has no shame, no real remorse, no sense of guilt. It sounds like its all water off a duck's back. Let him toil in obscurity.

[madeline_con]

11. What if he'd been a bus driver? n/t

[snagglepuss]

37. I hardly think being a bus driver has quite the same prominence as a

sports star.

[madeline_con]

42. Both have the same right to be left the fuck alone after serving their time. n/t

[snagglepuss]

43. Well Vic can be left alone driving a bus. Keep him out of sports. Ever heard

of term sportsmanship? He's a psycho in need of serious therapy.

[johnaries]

16. Well, I guess that's the real point. He PRETENDS

to be remorseful. Is he really?

He can gain millions of dollars if he just "acts" remorseful.

I would love to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But my cynical side says "bullshit".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. What's it to you?

I really don't understand.

You don't know him personally, so how can you possibly know what he's thinking, or PRETENDING, or anything intimate or personal about him.

I seriously don't believe your giving him the benefit of any doubt has any impact on his life.

He's a football player. If you find what he did reprehensible, don't watch the Eagles.

Or write to the Eagles and tell them how you feel. Maybe that will be a good thing to do.

But, honestly, you're pretending to have some kind of relationship with Vick, and the truth is that you don't.

So I just don't understand this "involvement" you seem to think exists..................................

[snagglepuss]

35. Remorseful he got caught. IMO there is nothing but words. I think Vic has serious

psychiatric issues that aren't being addressed or admitted. Vic didn't just run dog fights he hanged dogs, electrocuted and drowned them and that is taking sick to another level. Torturing animals is the stuff of psychopaths/sociopaths. These people don't feel remorse. Perhaps his socio-pathology ran in the family, maybe it was triggered by his father but at this point if he is a sociopath he is unable to feel empathy for living things. He should be happy he is out of jail so quickly and be happy to slink out of sight.

[rocktivity]

13. That's no excuse for killing dogs becuase they didn't win.

It's not as though they were horses with broken legs.

P.S. This morning, an Eagles fan told ESPN, "I knew SOME team would be stupid enough to pick him up, but I didn't think it would be MINE!"

:headbang:
rocktivity

[johnaries]

23. Grrrr, you're right, And there are some people who believe

that the only "true" Pit Bull is one who has proven they had "heart" because they survived pit fighting. The others were "culled" - DESTROYED! - because they weren't "worthy". To me, that translates as "they didn't make me money!"

I'm trying to be "reasonable" about this because I know that I can get very emotional over this issue.

But more and more I am beginning to feel that my moral outrage is fully justified. I can't help but feel that his "remorse" is nothing more than crocodile tears.

I am trying to let go of the anger. I really am! But I just don't trust this greedy motherfucker. And I don't care how good he is at throwing a football!

[Odin2005]

14. I've been trying to stay out of it because I have not been in a forgiving mood ...

...towards criminal assholes lately for reasons I probably don't have to repeat.

[valerief]

18. I think football is barbaric. nt

[johnaries]

21. I can't argue that. You are correct.

then again, camping is the purest definition of "barbaric". And I love camping!

Oh, don't tell me you go camping with a trailer with satellite TV?

Until you can embrace your most primal instincts, you will never grow spiritually and always be stunted emotionally. If you want to be "snobbish" about it, go see a performance of Stravinsky's "La Sacre du Printemps" (Rite of Spring).

Love it or hate it, you will never be the same person again. As much as you may pretend to be.

[valerief]

22. I don't like football. And I like jazz. And I don't like mosquitoes.

Oh, yeah, and I'm no snob nor name-caller. I guess I can't say that for all DUers.

[johnaries]

27. Actually, I used to hate football. But I always loved jazz!

Long story, but I really did hate football until the Titans came to town. I was in the marching band in both High School and College, and I used to do my homework during the games.

I did have a favorite cheer that (for some reason) only the Band seemed to appreciate:

"You have to be....
Smarter than the Ball!
Smarter than the Ball!
Smarter than the Ball!"

[snagglepuss]

44. Barbarism doesn't mean spending time in nature. Barbarism implies cruelty

and lack of mercy. Its means lacking in what makes people civilized such as being kind to those weaker than oneself. Being civilized doesn't end while camping unless you're one of the barbarians who trash the camp sites and pollute water.:shrug:

[sharesunited]

24. Pete Rose banned for life for betting on his own team to win.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. If that's not horseshit,

I don't know what is.

One of the greatest players ever....................

[flvegan]

40. He should've created and bet on his own dogfighting organization!!!

Lesson learned, Charlie Hustle?

[DRoseDARs]

30. Sorry, but the "It's Part of His Culture" argument does not excuse him from the "It's Illegal" fact.

You first impulses to cause him great physical harm is understandable as long as you don't actually act upon them, your concerns over his having been brought up with it are trivial and shouldn't cause you pause. It's just like ignorance of the law is not a defense. Vick is an adult. He should have known better, he DOES know better ... and he didn't care. Fuck him and his childhood.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. +1 nt

[Obama2012]

31. Yeah, but even if he saw some dog fighting at a "young age"

That doesn't account for electrocuting them, drowning them, hanging them, shooting them.

He's a fucking sociopath, who ought to rot in jail forever, with all the other violent criminals.

I was exposed to racism and Republicanism at a young age, but I'm neither racist or Republican.

[Critters2]

34. He knew that what he was doing was wrong.

He tried to hide it, and lied to investigators. If he hadn't realized it was wrong, he wouldn't have behaved in that way.

[flvegan]

36. I was introduced to British sports cars at a very young age.

I still wasn't desensitized to such an (at the time) atrocity such that I ever wanted to buy an MG.

[omega minimo]

39. Not like those dogs were torn. Fuck Michael Vick. Conscience has to kick in at some point.

:puke:

[Ilsa]

41. I have to admit, I have to believe in

forgiveness and giving him a chance to rehabilitate himself.

[busybl]

45. the kittens and little dogs used as bait were pretty torn too

and don't forget he admitted to personally having strangled low performing dogs. He's filth.

[WillieW]

47. I agree. I saw him on TV today and he made me ill

His first game with the Eagles/Washington Redskins will be protested by myself and many of my pet loving friends. Loud barking and signs will be the agenda.

[donheld]

46. All of you need to get off your high horse. After all

:sarcasm::D