I'm now of the belief that this was the wrong time to go after Health Care Reform...

[MessiahRp]

We should have FIRST went after campaign finance reform and DEMANDED public financing of campaigns, thus ending the reign of lobbyists having any legal ability to bribe Congressmen.

THEN we should have went after Health Care Reform, Climate Change, etc. With all of these lobbyists having the ability to bribe Congress NOTHING positive is going to be accomplished.

Congress is bought and paid for.

Rp

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. If congress has to be dragged kicking and screaming to health care reform,

what makes you think they would have given up their bribes so easily?

[MessiahRp]

12. I've talked to people on the left and the right and I think this is one thing everyone agrees on...

As in, we can get enough pressure from both groups because EVERYONE hates lobbyists. Health Care is different because the lobbyists know how to divide and conquer and play to the right's fears. But on this whenever anyone mentions getting rid of the corrupt lobbyists from Washington, both sides end up agreeing this is a good idea. It's always one of the biggest spikes of positive ratings during focus groups when politicians mention it during campaign time.

The political will would be forced from the outside. Healthcare has two sides being so loud that many will think this means there is no clear will for healthcare reform.

Rp

[BlooInBloo]

2. (shrug) DUers and right wingers will bitch about Obama no matter what he does...

So whatever.

[MessiahRp]

5. To go with a politician over your principles shows you have no principles

Sorry but Obama is wrong if he agrees to health care reform that is just one big giveaway to the health insurance industry and has no public option. Let's be serious, he fucked up. By not starting at Single Payer negotiation wise and starting at the public option, they had nowhere to go in the negotiations. This is not how it works. You never go to a car dealer who is selling a car at $2000 and say, "yeah we'll offer $1995". That's idiotic. But that's what Obama and Baucus did when they decided that the left doesn't deserve a voice in this debate. Not unlike how Obam and Rahm decided the left didn't deserve a voice in their cabinet either.

Now America will pay the price for corporatist rule. And Campaign Reform is the only route to go to end this.

Rp

[BlooInBloo]

14. I'm kind of busy implementing The Great Purge at the moment. I'll get back to you.

[Warpy]

3. The country has waited since Truman for a real effort

and I've waited 22 years as an uninsurable person.

And you have the unmitigated gall to ask what the rush is?

[MessiahRp]

8. You're missing the point.

I want healthcare reform as bad as everyone but what we are going to get is NOT meaningful reform. Not what you're hoping for at least. You're going to get a giveaway to the health insurance industry, that likely mandates everyone buy insurance but doesn't force HMOs to end pre-existing condition or service denials. And there will probably be NO public option.

I am saying if we had gone after campaign reform first and cut the lobbyists out there would be an easier path to REAL reform.

What we're going to get is going to be a failure and it's because lobbyists OWN Washington.

Rp

[Warpy]

28. Good luck on that

but I'm sick of waiting for those overly comfortable bastards in Congress to get their acts together.

If they fail to deal with this now, they will be out in 2010. It will be a repeat of 1994 and for the same reason.

Spineless, do-nothing Democrats who won't act for the good of the country are worthless. Voters will stay home rather than vote them back in for more of the same.

Don't try to tell me this reform is worse than nothing until you've lived with nothing for as long as I have.

[Motown_Johnny]

4. I see your point. once campaign finance is reformed all our other priorities will be easier to pass

[Strong Atheist]

17. +1. nt.

[NightWatcher]

6. campaign finance reform will never happen. Who's going to fight for it?

those making shitloads of money and funding their election campaigns in exchange for selling their shallow souls?

or

those who own the politicians and write 99% of all the legislation?


The ideals behind the Great Experiment have fallen to the almighty dollar.

[kentuck]

7. You may be right?

But this may be the perfect time to start the debate about healthcare? Who says it has to get done before the next election? Why can it not be started now and finished after the next election? Make it a referendum on healthcare.

[abumbyanyothername]

9. It's not just campaign contributions

These representatives know who will REALLY butter their bread once they leave office.

[MessiahRp]

20. I agree.. and I dont think of this as an easy task by no means..

I also think that candidates for office should have to divest as well as their immediately family from any stocks they own shares in.

I'm tired of people getting into office and doing so to get government contracts to companies they have financial interest in. They get elected to rob our money for themselves and it's sickening. So no it's not just the campaign contributions but fundamental change eliminates all ways of profiting from this position. Outside of your base pay you should not make an extra dollar just for doing your job.

Rp

[sharesunited]

10. My post mortem concludes that the problem was branding. Medicare for All is the crusade.

Call it that and don't call it anything else.

Stifle the nomenclature "single payer" or "public option." That's like acquiescing in the term "Democrat Party."

Medicare for All invokes the name of a well known and popular program.

Leaving the only debate How To Pay For It.

To which the response should be By Making It This Nation's Highest Priority.

Because health precedes all other values.

[MessiahRp]

16. That wouldn't work either...

Lobbyists have succeeded in pushing the talking point that Medicare is bankrupt and this is proof that it won't work. Listen to the right and you can hear the lobbyist-induced talking points and see how stupid people can be.

Cut out the lobbyists and you have a clear path to getting health care passed the right way.

Rp

[Warren Stupidity]

22. We will never know as it was 'off the table'.

[2Design]

11. Finance reform will NEVER happen unless elections are announced 6 weeks before

happening like CANADA - we have a better chance for health care reform now than ever - if not now - it will be never

[Odin2005]

13. We need to kick Max Bauc-Ass is the face.

[napi21]

15. If you think HC reform is tough, with mostly the ins. co's Dr's,

& hospital lobbiestists fighting, how hard do you think it would be to have Every lobbiest from every interest group fighting you at the same time?

Remember McNuts fighting for campaign reform for YEARS??????

rIGHT NOW, WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE ARE UNEMPLOYED AND CAN'T AFFORD cobra, AND THE PREMIUMS RISING SO FAST SO MANY CO'S UNABLE TO AFFORD TO PROVIDE hc FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES, NOW IS THE TIME.

[MessiahRp]

18. The difference is people from BOTH sides HATE lobbyists...

And RIGHT NOW you're not going to get healthcare that helps anyone. You're going to get mandated insurance that forces people to buy, doesn't end the practice of service denials and most likely will not have a public option.

That's worse than what we have now.

Rp

[laughingliberal]

19. We are never going to get any legislation that benefits the masses

without campaign finance reform. But...I don't see it happening. The lobbyists fight it as a violation of their 1st amendment rights and the legislators like the big donations. Since Corporations have been endowed with the status of 'personhood' in this country the people have little or no recourse against this legal bribery of our so-called representatives.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. It is always the wrong time.

Has been since at least '48. How can one reform a corrupt congress when it is the corrupt congress that will be writing the reform legislation.

The French have the right idea: make them so scared of not doing what we want that they will do what we want. Our government does not fear the people, and that is why we are fucked.

[MessiahRp]

23. I agree with this... I also believe that this is the one issue all sides agree with

The right hates lobbyists too. They hate different lobbyists (unions, etc) but they hate them all the same. Cut them out of this completely, force candidates and their immediate families to divest in stock ownership as a stipulation to run for office and things would start to change in a hurry.

And yes, we could force these candidates to be scared. Run our own campaign against lobbyists and corrupt politicians. Everyone thinks politicians are corrupt. It's an easy fiddle to play to the masses.

Rp

[Bucky]

24. If you wait until after you clean money out of politics, you'll never get anything done

Sorry, but no sale. There will always be money seeking to buy power.

[MessiahRp]

25. Sure there is but if you don't attack campaign finance reform with serious teeth

you're asking for the farce that is about to be hoisted upon us to happen repeatedly. HC Reform with no public option, a mandate to purchase but no mandate to stop service denials is a LOSE for the American people. It keeps happening because we don't push this as our #1 issue.

There are memos already out there that oil lobbyists plan to use the same shout down tactics to cause fear about climate change so nothing changes there. The only way to stop this is attack it at the source.

Rp

[On the Road]

26. I Believe It Would Have been Much, Much Easier

without the need for an immediate economic bailiout. It was Bush's parting revenge.

Obama could have gotten almost anything through in his first few months in office, but the financial meltdown didn't leave much choice. I do think Obama might have put off cap-and-trade, which passed without a lot of media fuss but is a very big deal on the right.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that campaign contributions are a form of protected speech, so that makes effective campaign control laws unconstitutional. It would require an amendment, which is a very dicey proposition. And who knows how much of a role industry contributions make? A lot of it is misplaced fear of their right-wing constituency.

[leftofthedial]

27. Congress and the "presidency" are branches of corporate enterprise.