Health Care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT, not a commodity to be bought and sold.

[Odin2005]

This is what so enrages me about the whole healthcare debate. The market mechanism is not an idol to be worshiped, is merely just another tool society uses to ration scarce goods and services, a tool that is useful because it is, for the most part, self-sustaining and self-organizing. But because it rations based on ability to pay it is not the best way to distribute services that are basic community needs, like police, fire, energy, education, and HEALTHCARE. Free Market Fundamentalism and commodity fetishism will be the death of us.

[MercutioATC]

1. There are many who disagree.

Including me.

Access to health care makes sense both ethically (which is subjective) and financially (which isn't), but I don't believe it's a "basic human right".

[Cleita]

3. That's because you think corporations should be the only entities with

rights. When health care is delivered for profit we have the system we have now and even the rightest right winger admits it's broken. That is because once you stop thinking of it as a right instead of a commodity then the right to health care as a human right becomes clear.

[MercutioATC]

7. Untrue. I believe in many personal rights...just not access to health care.

[Odin2005]

5. And I think you are wrong. n/t.

[NYC_SKP]

2. No, it is not a basic human right that others provide a person health care.

Any more than it is to be provided a bicycle.

It IS the duty of the Government to prevent theft, to regulate business, to prevent monopolies, and to not hinder efforts by people to work collectively to develop social compacts.

We have the right to petition government to help us create a system of collectively funded efficient health services.

But it is not a basic human right.

IMHO.

[Cleita]

4. The government has a duty to protect its citizens, which our

government seems to be abandoning lately. Making sure they get health care is one of those duties. Since we the people are the government, as written in our Constitution, we have a duty to make sure everyone gets the same quality health care regardless of their ability to pay.

[Odin2005]

6. +1

[NYC_SKP]

12. Making sure that we get it fairly is different from having to provide it.

It can go either way, they shouldn't get in our way but neither is there a basic human right about governments providing it.

Look, this is going to boil down to a matter of opinion.

[kenny blankenship]

8. I know some other people who believe in the idea of a limited federal govt.

with limitations pursuant to an archaic atomistic & individual theory of natural rights, formed before the advent of anthropology and primate studies. They don't believe in society. You'd fit right in.

[rollingrock]

11. Yes, it is

if your house is on on fire, it is your right as a citizen to have the fire dept come to your house and put out the fire, especially if you pay taxes, or have ever paid taxes. that is what you pay taxes for. healthcare can be regarded in a similar manner.

[NYC_SKP]

14. Yes, like fire departments, it can be collectively decided that it should be a service.

But it differs, IMO, to the concept of a Basic Human Right, like privacy.

I don't think of BHRs as being of a financial or object nature.

I see them as more abstract, like dignity, safety, privacy, etc.

Of course it's a good argument to say that health is a matter of safety and security, and there is merit to that line of logic.

We're not likely to agree, everyone is entitled to have nuanced differences in definitions for such things, no?

[rollingrock]

15. So you think we should get rid of Social Security and Medicare?

because people don't have the right as human beings to be cared for in their old age, correct?

[NYC_SKP]

16. Really? No, I never said that and it's silly to try this.

We have a difference of opinion of what constitutes a Basic Human Right.

I've traveled too much and studied too many different cultures to easily settle for the more inclusive "everything is a basic human right" that some Americans do.

I'm tending toward a more universal definition, and bureaucracies don't fit into any of them.

What there is universally is a basic human need to care for our elders, and that is expressed differently, and I believe that elders have basic human rights for care, and in the US these two are expressed as Medicare.

Nice try, though. :P

[suffragette]

9. I'm with you

Just posted the same in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6307705&mesg_id=6313189

[Odin2005]

10. Excellent post!

[suffragette]

13. If you haven't read that article yet, be sure and take a look

One of the best I've seen about the issue.