Here's a simple idea for a single payer system.

[kentuck]

The employers will no longer have to negotiate with any insurance companies. You will already have a card to go to the doctor anytime you want. The employers will have more money for investment and labor costs. Everyone will be covered.

Simply take your money you are now paying into the Social Security fund and switch it over to a Single Payer Social Health Program. Nothing changes on your paycheck except you no longer pay any health insurance. Your Social Security card is your medical card. That is all you need to get into a doctor's office and the doctor is re-imbursed per your SS number.

But what about the money in the Social Seucrity fund, you ask? Well, it is being spent already. It is not being saved for your retirement or disbility. So use it for something more productive, like single payer health care. Problem solved.

[kentuck]

1. If you think about it....

The employer gets a tax break, the employee gets a pay increase, and we all get single payer health care.

[Angleae]

7. The retired get screwed.

Especially when they find out their SS checks stop coming.

[kentuck]

8. Why would their SS checks stop coming?

They are spending the money already. Where do you think that money is coming from? If they take off the cap on FICA taxes, they will have enough for health care and SS payments. Did you think the SS money was in a "lock box"?

[Angleae]

35. Because under your plan all FICA money is now directed toward health care.

"Simply take your money you are now paying into the Social Security fund and switch it over to a Single Payer Social Health Program"

[kentuck]

37. Where is all the "FICA money" spent now?

it is in the big pot with all the other general revenue. All we will need to do is re-arrange our priorities - we don't have to stop paying SS...

[stray cat]

2. My employer pays 12000 a year for my insurance - why would I want to pay it instead?

[kentuck]

3. You would be in the largest pool ever...

All you would pay would be your FICA taxes. The only change that might be needed is to take the cap off FICA taxes and everyone would be covered and the bureaucracy is already in place. All you need is a SS number. Your company will be freed from those insurance costs.

Think about it. The SS fund is running a surplus of $150-200 billion per year but the government is spending it on other items in the general budget. Add the $400 billion dollars from the insurance companies and you've got the best health care system in the world!

[enlightenment]

4. Don't waste your bandwidth, Kentuck.

You are not going to convince someone who has great employer-paid health insurance to even contemplate an alternative - they've got theirs and they could give a rat's hind end what happens to anyone else. A lot of rhetoric spilled and a lot more condemnation of others who would prefer single payer . . . but a rather adamant refusal to admit that they sound an awful lot like the folks on the Right who don't want anyone touching their coverage, either.

[kentuck]

5. Even with a handsome pay raise?

from the health insurance no longer deducted from their pay check? Even the employers that will have much more profits to invest and share with their stock holders? Even with the Social Security System still intact with the cap taken off? The bureaucracy is already in place. All you would need is your SS# and a doctor. It would be easy to implement.

[Mythsaje]

36. Not true..

I'm a strong supporter of single payer, and yet I've got very good insurance through my wife's employer. She also supports single payer and has since she returned from Germany after living there for several years in the eighties.

Of course, it's interesting that my strident support for single payer has resulted in me being called "selfish" by other DUers.

[slipslidingaway]

9. Did you read HR 676 yet ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6309379&mesg_id=6312771

[kentuck]

11. Sounds more complicated and keeps insurance companies involved...

I like my single payer plan better.

[slipslidingaway]

13. Insurance companies can only sell policies for items not covered

under the national system.

So you want to do away with SS?

I posted that link to the poster here because he obviously has not read HR 676.

[kentuck]

15. No, the SS system will remain in place.

But the present funds in SS fund are spent as general revenue - it is not spent on SS. With the money saved by taking out the middle man (the insurance companies) and by raising the cap on SS FICA taxes, we would have the best health care system in the world and we could save SS also. On top of that, businesses would get the tax break of not having to pay the insurance companies and employees would get a pay increase by not having to pay their health premiums thru their paychecks. The system is already set up. All you need to see a doctor is your SS# and all the doctors need for reimbursement is your SS# and the treatment performed. No middle man.

[bkkyosemite]

6. Wow lots of good ideas on here today. Now if we can get Obama to listen but I already think his mind

is made up from what he said in Montana yesterday.

[slipslidingaway]

10. General budget already owes 2.4 Trillion to the SS fund, just go

with HR 676.

[kentuck]

12. Take the cap off FICA taxes...

take the $400 billion paid the insurance companies, and there would be enough for both SS and health care for all.

[slipslidingaway]

14. So you want to remove the cap from both sides? n/t

[kentuck]

16. What do you mean?

:shrug:

[slipslidingaway]

19. On what is paid out by SS as well as what is collected by SS?

[kentuck]

21. We are presently taking in about $150-200 billion more than spent

on SS. That money is spent as general revenue already.

[slipslidingaway]

32. There is maximum that is paid out by SS, just as there is a maximum

that is paid in, that is what I was speaking about.

As for the current excess, that was to build up a trust fund for the baby boomers.

The excess is a loan or an investment to general revenue, backed by Treasury bills.

You cannot just spend that on another program, also in the next 6 six years or so there will be no excess, that is when the T bills start to become due.

It is also another reason that we need to get the health care program right instead of mandates that will help the private companies.

[FLDCVADem]

26. Nah

kentuck has already answered that benefits shouldn't go up even if payments into the system do increase.

I disagree, but then again, this isn't my fantasy...

[slipslidingaway]

34. Oh Ok, tough to get that passed. n/t

[FLDCVADem]

17. No problem...

...so long as you up the benefits as well.

[kentuck]

20. Nope. The break you get from not paying additonal benefits...

more than makes up for your cap increase. Unless you are independently wealthy, you should have no problem. If you are very wealthy, then it is time for you to pay a little bit more. Sorry.

[FLDCVADem]

22. I'm not wealthy at all...

...but what you're suggesting turns Social Security into a welfare program, which it was never intended to be. Benefits are currently based on contributions, and they should remain so.

[kentuck]

24. And it should continue to be based on contributions.

It's always been a cash cow for the politicians so they don't have to raise taxes on the wealthiest.

[FLDCVADem]

25. Yes it should

It should stay as it is - the more you contribute, the higher your payment when you retire. So, if you lift the cap, then lift the benefits as well.

[kentuck]

27. It is not an investment or retirement plan.

It was created as an insurance plan. You are misinterpreting its creation and its purpose. It is not there for you to make money.

[FLDCVADem]

28. Of course it wasn't

Do you even know how SS works?

The more a worker pays in, the higher the benefit at retirement. It's always been that way, partially because doing so eliminates the accusation that SS is a welfare plan.

[kentuck]

29. Yes, it is paid up to the present cap of about $110,000

But if you make more, just consider it a tax - not a contribution. Give back a little of that dough you got under George W Bush, OK??

[FLDCVADem]

30. Ahh, got it

Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a W fan...

[kentuck]

31. And we want to kill your Grandma...

You got any more distortions you would like to make??

[TahitiNut]

18. The money in the Social Security Trust Fund is being 'invested' and not spent.

This is a pernicious canard. Just like money in a savings account, it is invested ... loaned out. The Social Security Trust Fund is invested in T-Bills ... loaned to the federal government. That's STILL considered the most secure investment. The tin-foil hat claim that the federal government will default on those notes is insane. If it did, the whole economy would crash ... world wide.

CLEARLY, when the FICA contributions don't meet the expenses of the Social Security system and it's time to tap into the Trust Fund to meet annual benefit payments, it'll be time for the federal government to sell T-Bills and raise taxes (in some balance) to pay off that specific debt while still incurring whatever deficit (and borrowing for it). Yes, that will certainly handcuff the government. At some point it's necessary to actually pay the piper.

But this country has done this before. WW2 saw the national debt grow to huge levels as well. That's why we had marginal income tax rates up to 90%. The longer we wait and keep a lid on tax revenues while spending more, then the larger the 'correction' will have to be. But is IS doable.

[kentuck]

23. Yes. It is borrrowed and spent..

but backed by the US Govt. That is true.

[slipslidingaway]

33. I agree with your distinction, it is an investment or loan. n/t