xchrom
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:36 PM
Original message |
i don't NEED insurance i NEED healthcare. |
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seriously -- who needs insurance for healthcare?
if there were to options available on top of basic healthcare needs -- fine -- but really what anyone needs is access to a doctor and treatments if they need them.
and to have those treatments not drive their financial lives.
it's poor economics for your country to have 6% or more of the wealthiest nation on earth driven by -- what is really insurance -- not healthccare.
and if you're the elected leaders of that democracy -- well your doing a piss poor job if you're letting people who are breaking the system -- the economy -- have the most say so.
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Hello_Kitty
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Seriously. We don't have fire "insurance". We have fire departments. |
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Same with police and same with public schools.
What's so hard about that to figure out?
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xchrom
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. don't ask me -- but apparently it is. -- |
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and really -- it's getting hard to keep caring.
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Gormy Cuss
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
8. At one time we had only fire brigades, not public fire departments. |
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Two or more brigades would show up when a business was on fire. Sometimes the brigades would argue with each other rather than fight the flames because the team that fought the fire would be paid by the insurance company.
After awhile it became clear that this was a nutty way to provide the service and cities converted to municipal departments. Likewise, our current system of insurance-centric health care delivery is a nutty way to approach health care and it's about time to change it.
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Gormy Cuss
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:41 PM
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xchrom
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:43 PM
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ClayZ
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:46 PM
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Kablooie
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message |
6. You have to pay for insurance or else you can't afford healthcare. It's a totally screwed system. |
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Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 11:51 PM by Kablooie
Most people pay thousands and thousands of dollars for healthcare they will never use. All that money goes into the CEO's pockets.
If I have to pay anyway, I'd rather it go to the government who would use it for some one else's health care, or better roads or a some other use that myself or someone else would benefit from.
But no. It all goes to to make private executives horrendously rich.
Good use of our funds?
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BzaDem
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Sun Aug-16-09 11:49 PM
Response to Original message |
7. You really do pay insurance, in the form of a payroll tax. |
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You talk as if healthcare magically comes for free from down high. In reality, you pay a percentage of your income for "insurance." Healthy people pay into the system which treats sick people -- that's what insurance is.
The current healthcare plan that will probably be enacted (without a public option) also essentially guarantees (through subsidies) that no one pay more than a certain percentage of their income for insurance/care. The only difference is that the insurance will be run by heavily regulated private companies instead of the government.
Switzerland/the Netherlands are both countries that have no public involvement in health insurance at all, yet still manage to have 99%+ of the country insured. People who claim that having a public option/single payer system is the only way to have universal healthcare are being disingenuous.
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Hello_Kitty
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Mon Aug-17-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. Those countries accept a way higher amount of regulation over private insurers |
BzaDem
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Mon Aug-17-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
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Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 02:13 AM by BzaDem
Nevertheless, I still think basic regulation such as "everyone has to be accepted and at the same rate" would be a good incremental step in the US. Once that happens, and the government guarantees through subsidies that everyone's out of pocket costs are limited to a percentage of one's income, we will revisit the problem of cost control later and can either enact stricter regulation or a public option.
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Hello_Kitty
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Mon Aug-17-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
15. The one house version caps premiums at 12.5% of your income if at 400% FPL. |
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I don't know about you but I haven't started making 12.5% more money lately.
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LibDemAlways
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Mon Aug-17-09 01:33 AM
Response to Original message |
10. The system is so fundamentally screwed up that even with |
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insurance it's difficult to get in to see a doctor. When my dad, who had excellent insurance, needed to see a specialist ASAP, I could not get him an appointment for weeks. He ended up in the emergency room at 5AM. The next few weeks were a nightmare. My family tried our best to get him diagnosed and the ongoing care he needed, but ultimately it was impossible. He went rapidly downhill and passed away within a month.
I agree that all Americans need quality healthcare. Getting it, however, even with insurance, is a crapshoot. Without insurance the ordinary person stands no chance. It's a national disgrace.
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TahitiNut
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Mon Aug-17-09 02:16 AM
Response to Original message |
12. Healthy people don't need health insurance. |
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Just like living people don't need life insurance.
:dunce:
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Delphinus
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Mon Aug-17-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message |
13. I've made that point time and again ... |
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there is a disconnect for many people, thinking health insurance equates to health care. Two totally separate entities.
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Heidi
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Mon Aug-17-09 07:30 AM
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
Heidi
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Mon Aug-17-09 08:40 AM
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:44 AM
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Heidi
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
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Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 09:50 AM by Heidi
The Wiley and Excellent Boy Cat Named Ginger and I happily accept. Or did you mean CMW? :P
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
25. well i meant CMW - but -- |
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:hug: :hug: and a couple more just in case -- :hug: :hug:
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graywarrior
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message |
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If I never had to deal with another insurance company, I'd be more than fine.
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
21. ain't that right? -- i've just had a HUGE argument with my insurance company |
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over the choice of pharmacies.
they want me to use a mail order pharmacy -- that charges me MORE co-pay than my local pharmacy -- where i know the people and who do an outstanding job of taking care of me.
it's like -- really? -- we have to fight over even little shit like this?
and who pays me for all of this wrangling with insurance companies? -- depending on the severity of what's happening -- it becomes like having another job, damn it!
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graywarrior
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
24. It makes me sicker to have to deal with an isurance customer service rep on the phone. |
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It's demeaning, it's frustrating, and it's abusive.
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
26. i LOVE it when they read from a script |
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for their responses.
and i don't understand a thing they're saying half the time. -- and i'm pretty sure they don't understand it either.
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graywarrior
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. They don't. They're sweating in their seats hoping you don't call them on their shit. |
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A lot of us have worked incoming calls for telemarketers and know the score. Minimal training, $9 per hour and morons for supervisors. And the call rooms are all contracted so have nothing to do with the insurance companies no doubt. It's one big scam.
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
29. you know i wondered if that wasn't contracted out. |
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i've spoken with supes -- and they seem as clueless as the person who answered the phone -- they ALWAYS have to call me back with an answer or some kind of settlement to the question or conflict i'm having.
whatever my circumstances are -- they can't be unique -- why all the head scratching that serves to make me nuts?
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graywarrior
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
31. I can't imagine insurance companies paying telemarketers within |
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I don't know for sure, but it makes sense that they'd contract out.
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Blue Diadem
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
28. We have to drive 30 miles round-trip now for our medicine. Insurance says we can't use our town |
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pharmacy anymore or any of the other small towns pharmacies that are much closer. I'm waiting to be forced into mail order. My daughter dealt with that for a while and sometimes would not have her medicine on time.
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xchrom
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Mon Aug-17-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
30. how infuriating and insulting. |
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and who pays you for all that extra time spent?
they might be saving money -- but that sure as hell doesn't save me time or money.
what. a. waste.
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Blue Diadem
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Mon Aug-17-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
32. I hear ya. I've been waiting on a surgery to be scheduled. Insurance will only pay |
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for one hospital out of the several that my Dr's group goes to...and that hospital is 30 miles away. There are 4 hospitals within 15 miles of here and two others at 20 miles and I have to go to the one that is 30 miles from here. What makes it worse is the Drs only do surgery at that particular hospital once a month, so I've already lost a month due to how they have to book the surgeries. I might be able to get in in mid Sept.
I hate insurance companies.
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Echo In Light
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:46 AM
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Mon Aug-17-09 09:51 AM
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Mon Aug-17-09 12:45 PM
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