Biggest blunder by this Administration?

[SHRED]

Taking single-payer off the table.

That would have been the starting point.
We might have gotten at least a strong public option but now it appears we will get mandatory insurance and a dumping ground program for those the industry doesn't want.

Us tax payers, again, appear to be on the verge of providing mega corporate welfare to the medical-industrial-complex.

:mad: :mad:

http://pdamerica.org/articles/news/2009-08-24-10-42-07-news.php

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090823_this_isnt_reform_its_robbery


---

[customerserviceguy]

1. Dumping ground

Glad to see that I'm not the only person here who thinks this is a very real possibility.

[cbdo2007]

2. This is hardly a blunder. Most people don't want single payer.

reform yes - single payer no

[SHRED]

4. I was talking about political strategy

Their starting point in the health care debate was wrong.
Deadly wrong.

[lunatica]

7. I keep hearing how most people do want it

70% seems like most people to me.

[cbdo2007]

11. where do you get this please?

I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Our state governor said it's the most popular solution here in Montana. That's saying something.

When was the last time you saw it polled on?

The problem is, people want it but our congress folks would lose the millions they are taking in from the private health insurance companies. So they don't want it. And if they don't want it , it doesn't matter what we want.

[cbdo2007]

20. The only people I ever hear saying it's a good idea are on DU or MSNBC.

Nobody else I know or talk to thinks it's a good idea, Dem or Repube, that's why I was wondering where this person got his numbers that 70% of the American public thinks that single payer is the way to go.

If 70% of the public thinks single payer is the best, then yes it should be discussed. If 15% of the public thinks single payer is the best, then discussing it too long is just a waste of time.

[cbdo2007]

23. Here's a link: 32% Favor Single-Payer

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/32_favor_single_payer_health_care_57_oppose

[Donnachaidh]

26. of course, rasmussen writes push polls for the right.

Got a more credible link?

[John Q. Citizen]

27. People in MO don't like Medicare and FDIC deposit insurance? The Repos just doubled it last fall.

Those are both single payer insurance systems.

Wow, I didn't know that about MO. Has everybody refused Medicare and when banks go down they don't use there FDIC insurance to recover there deposits?

A poll I know about says that 59% of doctors nationwide favor single payer.

The California nurses association favors single payer.

The aflcio favors single payer.

The illinois legislature is on record in favor of single payer. The California legislature has passed it twice and been veted twice by the governator.

It has a lot of support, but not among our corporate masters.

You should check it out. Perhaps if you knew more about it, you would favor it also.

You'd think we could at least talk about it, wouldn't you?

This website has tons of information. Happy discovering!
http://www.pnhp.org/

[bvar22]

45. Ask them if they would like to be able to BUY into Medicare.

You might be surprised at their answer.

[lunatica]

19. Thom Hartman's radio show

I heard him say it just yesterday. I've read it elsewhere over time but if you really want to know you could google it. I hope this doesn't sound snarky because I don't mean it that way. I have to go to work and don't have time to do the search right now.

[kctim]

22. With less than half of those not willing to pay for it

can we have single payer without paying for it?

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Yep. We can spend half a billion dollars less a year than we are currently spending.

A penny save is a penny earned.

Of course that money comes right out of the mouths of the poor insurance company CEOs and their struggling stock holders.

I'm not sure Americans are that cruel.

[OwnedByFerrets]

10. Most people DO want it...we get enough lying from the reichwing

[John Q. Citizen]

12. When did they poll on it? During the Obama listening sessions there were people

all across the country asking for single payer. Here in MT the daily newspaper reported that at every meeting they attended accross the state it was the most popular solution.

But for some reason the transition team didn't keep any records of how popular it was or wasn't. They kept lots of records of lots of things but that was never included for some reason.


But you misunderstand the OP

The point wasn't that Obama favored single payer or that a majority of congress wanted to quit getting bribed by the insurance industry. The point was when single payer was banned from any and all consideration or dicussion it made the puiblic option the bargaining chip. Which is why it's been all but bargained away at this point.

There is no functional public option in hR3200 or in the HELP Bill. Do you imagine the Finance committee bill will contain a functional public option pool? I know it won't. More like to contain useless co-ops.

So where are we going to get a public option from? Thin air?

[cbdo2007]

18. No, I understand the OP just fine. The problem with the public option

wasn't that we weren't asking for something even crazier so hopefully they would cave. The problem with the public option was that it was thrown together poorly, didn't make any sense practically or financially, and was just included in it's current form to appease the people who want any bill rather than give them the time to write a good bill. Blame the stupid public option they came up with and fed to the American people to get us to shut up for the public option being useless, but MOST American's don't want single payer so even debating it is useless.

I'd much rather they debate and actually come up with a GOOD public option. If they would actually write it well there would be no need for the back-and-forth bargaining chips because it would make more sense to more people. I read 75% of the public option bill they came up with and it didn't make sense to anybody except the Insurance companies who were going to profit heavily from it.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. In my state, most Montanans do want single payer, according to Gov. Schwietzer.

That's what he stated publicly.

I don't know about your state.

The point of a public option is to force insurance companies to quit being on going criminal conspiracies.

The idea has been around since 2001 and was updated in 2007 so it's not new and it's been very well thought out.

Our corporate masters don't like it because they can't make as much money as quickly if there were a strong functioning public option.

[lazer47]

15. Do you realize we already have "single payer" for more than

50% of the population......

[Donnachaidh]

25. of course you have a link to back up that claim, yes?

*most people don't want single payer* -- post the link please.

[slipslidingaway]

30. Link to poll that most people do not want SP???

http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/935a3HealthCare.pdf

Oct. 2003

Washington Post/ABC News Poll

Which would you prefer – (the current health insurance system in the United States, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance); or (a universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?)

62 % Universal
33% Current
6% No opinion


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6365319&mesg_id=6365319

The Power of the Word Medicare -

When the word Medicare is used in the various polls, the number of people who favor the plan automatically jumps, it makes no difference if the question relates to the public option or a national insurance system such as single-payer...the word "Medicare" has a favorable connotation.

The Kaiser Health Tracking poll is one of the few recent polls that asks about a single-payer plan or government run insurance plan for all, many of the polls leave SP out altogether and that includes the widely cited poll from June saying that 72% of people want a public option.

What Kaiser did, at times, was half sample certain questions.

For instance if they were sampling 1200 people, they would ask about a public plan "like Medicare" to only half of the people. The other half they would leave out the word "Medicare" and the support for a public plan, or single-payer, would drop.....

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Handing The Keys To The Government To The DLC

Those crypto-Republicans haven't changed much from the last 16 years of pushing to the right under Clinton.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Were it just the DLC it wouldn't be so bad.

[Individualist]

44. +1

[Stinky The Clown]

5. "Dumping ground program"

Cast that phrase in bronze for the Eternal Political Hall of Shame where, if this happens, those words belong.

I've never seen political capital squandered so quickly.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Amen. Speaking of which,

what happened to this place?

How did discussing single payer or even asking why there is no functional PO get to be politically incorrect?

I feel like something happened but i'm not sure what.

edited to add.

Actually, it's not just here. There are many formerly liberal organizations where speaking about single payer or about how worthless the in name only Public options are is met with silence. It's weird.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Do you remember "Bush Uber Alles"?

We now have "Obama Uber Alles". And is just as bad.

[Political Tiger]

8. You have Obama mixed up with Kucinich

Single payer was never on the table.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Yep, and neither was democracy or respect for for all constructive ideas.

There is a large amount of people in this country who were shut out from the beginning because Obama is making his decisions based on ideology, and non-profit health insurance is verboten.

That's why there is no effective public option either. There never was going to be.

[slipslidingaway]

33. Not at all, Obama said he would bring ALL sides to the discussion

table. There is a difference between not endorsing a particular plan and shutting them out from the beginning.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Absolutly. But i don't think it was a blunder. I think the public option was the bargaining chip all

along. That's why single payer was purposely removed from the start. If it was there it would have acted as a shield to keep a functional public option.

But as of right now, there is no functional public option. People keep talking about the public option, but who is going to introduce one?

We have public option in name only.

And that's not a mistake or an oversight. That's the way it was planned.

[Octafish]

13. Taking prosecution of Bush war crimes off the table.

Bush lied America into two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars.

He and his cronies should be brought to justice.

[slipslidingaway]

34. This is right at the top as well n/t

[Octafish]

43. Makes me wonder: ''Who outranks the President?''

Bill Moyers may know (video) -- The Secret Government.

And now they've got Blackwater -- a Gestapo for the 21st Century -- to do their dirty work.

[slipslidingaway]

48. Great question - we should all be wondering....

need to watch The Secret Government again, it has been awhile.

:hi:

Blackwater

:thumbsdown:

[tekisui]

16. Escalating For Profit Wars.

[slipslidingaway]

35. Another one n/t

[Stevenmarc]

24. I'm still waiting for the Change I Can Belive In

[LeftinOH]

31. Failing to give "Health Care Reform" a proper name (like "Medicare - for everyone" ) -

Doing so would essentially have elimiated any chance that the "death to grandma" argument could have arisen. Co-opting an existing (and well-regarded) name would have prevented a lot of the misplaced anti-'socialist' outrage.

[slipslidingaway]

36. Unfortunately they took that off the table :( n/t

[jobendorfer]

37. The same 2 strategic mistakes the Democratic Party has made

since the start of the Reagan era:

1. The failure to ensure, on a national level, a uniform, transparent, and reviewable voting process;
2. The complete refusal to recognize that the corporate media will NEVER be objective about, much less friendly to, progressive initiatives, and thus to form media systems to promote its viewpoint.

There are a number of issues that I'd like to see the administration do better on ( in my humble opinion ), but I believe most of my gripes would straighten themselves out if (1) and (2) were addressed. In fairness, though, I will admit that there used to be a 3rd strategic item on my list: the need to build grassroots organizations and force the Republicans to fight in every district. Howard Dean has done some excellent work on that point, as did the Obama campaign; it remains to be seen whether it will continue in 2010 and 2012, or be undone.


John

[samsingh]

38. thinking repugs care about America

[scheming daemons]

39. Can't take something off the table that was never on the table

[slipslidingaway]

41. How could I have been so silly - when Obama said All sides would

be at the discussion table, I thought he meant those who advocate for a different system.

Maybe he meant the insurance companies, drug companies and everyone in favor of for profit health care.

Silly me.

:(

[derby378]

40. Allowing Congress to postpone healthcare votes until after the August recess

Plenty of opportunity for insurance companies to send out their bully boys to disrupt townhall meetings. Bad idea.

[Davis_X_Machina]

42. Getting elected...

...and not letting McCain and Caribou Barbie catch the tidal wave of crap coming at them off of DU.

What sane man volunteers for that?

[bvar22]

46. More people will die from the sell out of Health Care Reform....

...so you're probably correct in listing this as #1.

However, escalating the WAR in Afghanistan and INCREASING Military Spending are my personal favorites.

[Echo In Light]

47. Auh yes, American "Value$"