One example of German Healthcare from my sister.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

My sister sent me this email a few days ago and I thought that it might be of interest with the current events. My BIL recently had surgery that is going to require an extended hospital stay. I left out the personal parts but this is the part that's interesting.


But he won't be home for a while. This is certainly one good thing in Germany. We have to pay around 10 dollars a day for his stay in the hospital (the point being that he would have expenses at home, too, for food and things). And we have one bill from the doctor for about 20 dollars. We shouldn't have to pay much more than that. And he gets full pay for 6 weeks. After that it drops to around 75%, but we have extra insurance that will make up some (but not all) of the difference. Of course we still have other expenses, but at least it's not too much of a financial burden.

The system in Germany might not be perfect, but is an interesting comparison to what we have here.

[rfranklin]

1. We could take the best of many other systems, but ...

American citizens have been sold a bill of goods by the vested commercial interests and right wing ideologues. There are countries where waiting times are less, overall costs are much less, and everyone is covered. But those of us who want single payer and universal health care are drowned out by the calculated fear mongering and misinformation spread by the aforementioned players.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

4. No doubt about it.

The worst thing is that we've just lost the one person with the strength,
devotion and courage to shake off the corporate stranglehold. How can so many Americans still not get it and continue to be such good obedient clueless sheep?

[Froward69]

17. no doubt

America used to take ideas from the rest of the world and make it world class... make it better... pick a subject, make what ever the best in the world.

... now hampered by republican special interests. driven by the all mighty dollar (not innovation) "What made America Great" is tarnished and brushed aside by those that fear change, innovation and yes they fear the future.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Actually, we are our own worst enemies. We make excuses for our leaders who won't even allow

open and public debate on the possible solutions.

I'm talking Obama here. How many on this board give him a pass for shutting down debate? Many do.

[truedelphi]

22. The richest nation on earth, a "Can - Do" sort of country whenever

It comes to providing wars and human suffering, but one that just "Cannot - Do" when it comes to being humane to its citizens.

[madmax]

2. Sounds pretty good to me!

Wishing your BIL a speedy recovery. :hi:

[DFW]

3. With my wife's cancer, it was similar

This was in 2001, so back then, there wasn't even the daily co-pay. She was in the hospital for weeks
after her operation, and away from her job for 8 months altogether. It cost the price of the gas for me
to drive her the 20 minutes to the hospital and back. Her German citizenship is the reason we're not
bankrupt.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

8. With all of the problems that they've both had, they would probably

be bankrupt by now if they lived in the US. I hope that everything went well for your wife. Watching a spouse suffer with a health problem has to be one of the most excruciating things to go through.

Thanks for the well wishes Max!

[DFW]

9. It was torture to see her suffer

But she fought it successfully.

Here she is (with our younger daughter and boyfriend) two days ago.
She has definitely made the long trip back, and at 57, looks far
better than I do!

[Altoid_Cyclist]

12. Glad to hear that!

I was hesitant to ask but I have to say, your wife looks a lot younger than I do and I just turned 53.

[DFW]

14. You know how stubborn Germans can be

She has apparently decided she'll look 57 when she is good and ready, and not before.

Mother Nature decided to take out her wrath on me instead, and I am only
3 months older than my wife.

[madmax]

20. That's great news

:hug: Mrs. DFW

[DFW]

27. Every single day, believe me!!

[Doctor_J]

5. There isn't any debate about US vs. Euro health care

The European systems win, hands down. As soon as we start forcibly removing the hate-filled propagandists from the US airwaves, we'll start to make progress here.

[freethought]

6. "Sick Around The World" by Frontline

Some months ago, the PBS news show "Frontline" did an entire hour called "Sick Around the World"
, an overview of how other advanced/industrialized countries health care systems.
Japan, and Germany were among the countries that were profiled.

In Germany, as I recall, private insurance is the system used. However, in the German system,
a basic package of health insurance must be offered by law,and additionally those companies that sell this insurance cannot make a profit! If the insurance companies sell policies of supplemental insurance they are allowed to make a profit on those

Those who lack the ability to buy health insurance acquire it through subsidies and aid from the government.

Can you imagine such a system in this capitalist economy?

[Iterate]

15. Funny thing about those non-profit insurance companies,

I've seen that the still compete with each other, but since they can't do that here with ads or cutting coverage, they do it by increasing their own efficiency, reducing paperwork, and increasing customer satisfaction. For that last reason, they'll even go out of their way to find a less expensive plan for you.

[Warpy]

7. My bill for a hospitalization last month

was $13,000. That included 3 days in intensive care. I consider it a bargain because I went to the county hospital instead of the non profit or for profit hospitals in town. My care was superb and I survived a condition with a 50% mortality rate none the worse for wear a month later.

I just wrote a check for the bill. It would be a crippling debt for most of the people I know. I know I'm lucky in that department.

One thing I know for sure is that if I'd had for profit insurance, I might not have survived. That hour on the phone trying to get a disinterested bean counter to approve the ambulance ride and ER visit might have been the difference between life and death.

That is why we need to get those vultures out of health care. We need a public option now. We need them to wither gradually and become an option only for the super rich who are willing to pay through the nose for an illusion they're superior to the rest of us in illness as well as health.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

10. While we were watching the Funeral last night, I turned to my wife and told her that

I'm afraid that we're also watching the funeral for a lot of people down the road who won't have EMK to fight the heartless corporations controlling who lives and who dies. My wife and I are just lucky that there aren't debtors prisons anymore. We pay all of the medical providers a few dollars a month and they can receive full payment literally over my dead body when my wife collects my life insurance policy. We laugh about it, but it's not actually funny.

[madmax]

19. I was in the hospital for 4 hours

to have a fracture mended with a glue/cement type material, osteoplasy. Bill - a hair under 10k. No anesthesia, just a local. I'm lucky that our insurance is paying most of it but, seems to me like an awful lot of money for a fairly straightforward proceedure. :shrug:

[Warpy]

24. Let me put it this way

A very expensive piece of machinery broke down. The plant manager had everyone try to figure out what was wrong and try to fix it, to no avail. Finally, he sent for the man who'd designed the machinery. The man climbed inside it, looked around, and tapped it twice with a hammer. The piece of equipment started up immediately.

His bill came to $5002.00. The manager was furious, "You just hit it with a hammer!"

The expert replied, "The two dollars is for hitting it with a hammer. The five thousand is for knowing where to hit it."

Unfortunately, the glue they stuck into your bone is still on patent. In addition, you're paying off the education of the doctor who knows how to use it.

Chances are the price will either go down or fail to keep pace with inflation as more docs get trained and the glue's patent expires.

However, both are relatively new and you're stuck paying off the cost of developing the glue, too.

[madmax]

26. Good explanation ,

that was only for the hospital. The Doctor bill hasn't arrived yet. I think that's going to be around 3,500. The good news, it worked and I feel great! Still have a little pain, it's only not quite 2 weeks.

I'm grateful that my insurance paid for most of it. I consider myself very, very lucky.

[Iterate]

11. It's really not a radical system at all.

Insurance is handled through regulated non-profits or public funds with an individual option to opt out for private insurance. There are various plans which are relatively inexpensive unless you have a high income. Family practice MDs act as gate-keepers for access to specialists. The government negotiates fees for providers, but fee-for-service and private rooms are also available if you wish. The facilities and skill levels are informal and outstanding, intentionally aimed at giving the best care for the greatest number of people.

It's required and universal, with the state paying for the unemployed. Contrary to the "death panel" nonsense, the government finds that it has an interest in both low unemployment and a healthy population, so they are quite willing to pay for preventative care, full recovery time, and even rest spas. Full dental for non-cosmetic procedures, about 1/2 for eyeglasses. Most people sign up for full-pay plans.

Best of all I think, there is almost no paperwork for patients. Present your health account card and get well.

[JHB]

13. Now THERE is a proper role for insurance...

...making up for lost income in the event in the event of a non-permanent injury or disease exceeding mandated employer coverage. Something most people need to guard against, but which a far smaller pool actually experiences. Not rationing the coverage of things nearly everyone needs at some point.

That's something to point out when we're accused of "socialism" and "hating capitalism": What's wrong with wanting insurance companies to go back to selling insurance instead of milking cash cows?

[JimWis]

16. Thanks for sharing. You said there system may not be perfect -

but is sounds pretty good to me. All of these countries, even though they may have a few flaws in their health system, are 100% better than what we have in this country. And our system needs to be fixed yesterday.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

21. She became concerned when Reagan was elected

and saw how big corporations were being pandered to. She said that if he was re-elected, she was out of here(US)! She kept her word.

[SOS]

23. First, A wish for your BIL's speedy recovery

Having experienced the health care system in Germany and Austria, I can say from experience that it was excellent, caring, quick and generous.
Here it is a nightmare.

My wife is first-generation American, born of Irish parents.
We are now applying for EU passports.

Once we have them, we will leave this "health care" system behind for good.

[femrap]

25. Any system used in Western Europe would be better than ours. nt