Why aren't more religious leaders coming out for healthcare and the public option?

[still_one]

During the Civil Rights movement they were front and center, but with regard to this their silence is deafening

We are talking about 50 million uninsured people

Do they stand for anything?

[Ian David]

1. They're proving that religion is a useless anachronism. n/t

[saltpoint]

2. I'm trying to think of an excuse they can use. Otherwise your point is

extremely well-taken, IMO.

I have heard a few speak out in strong terms in favor of reform generally and the public option especially, but a great majority have lost their tongues.

Maybe it's a case of selective mutism.

Maybe they're hunkered down in their basements getting psyched up for the Jerry Lewis Telethon.

[QC]

3. The fact that you're not aware of something doesn't mean it's not happening.

The Episcopalians have called for reform: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/79901_112949_ENG_HTM.htm

The Methodists, too: http://gbgm-umc.org/global_news/full_article.cfm?articleid=5503

The Evangelical Lutherans: http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Three-Expressions/Churchwide-Organization/Communication-Services/News/Releases.aspx?a=4264

The UCC: http://www.ucc.org/justice/health/

The Presbyterians: http://www.pcusa.org/oga/newsstories/clerk-healthcare_aug09.htm

As you can see, quite a few mainline church leaders have, in fact, come out loudly in support of health care reform, but when's the last time you saw one of them on CNN?

Unfortunately, only fundamentalists get TV time.

To judge from the media, one would think that the only Christians in the country are the Baptists and the various Pentecostal sects, and an awful lot of DUers seem to share that delusion.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. You should post this as its own thread....

and make more people aware of these links.

[QC]

18. Perhaps, but there's really no point.

Check out the responses. Do these people sound open to reason?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. I see your point.

[still_one]

12. Some of the Catholic bishops and leadership were quite vocal against Kerry, and Obama

regarding abortion, but I haven't heard very much from the Catholic leaders in this country regarding healthcare, as they do abortion

It is pretty ironic, since they perceive abortion as destroying a life not born, but they don't have much passion in saving a life already born

[QC]

15. I agree about the irony of that one. As George Carlin said of such people,

"they believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth."

[saltpoint]

22. The public comments made against John Kerry were disgraceful.

In his sincere and clear-headed and long-standing support of a woman's right to choose, Kerry was at the very least upholding the law of the land as determined by its highest court.

The Catholic Church officials who attempted to subvert him for that clarity of judgment should roast a long, long time in a real toasty venue.

[zbdent]

36. as I understand it, the Catholic Church pretty much is against the Death Penalty, too ...

but where were the vocalizations of the Catholic Church when a mass murderer was installed in the White House 12/12/2000?

Silence ...

At best, the Catholic Church can condemn a Dem as a "murderer" because he/she defends a woman's right to choose, and the choice to have an abortion is up to one person (again, the RW point of the man/husband/boyfriend should have the final decision comes up).

Whereas George W. Bush, in his hundred+ cases where he could have changed putting someone to death to life no chance of parole (which is more cruel? The RW constantly whines about how "humane" the Death Penalty is compared to the victims of the crime, but don't say about how cruel it is to take away someone's freedom {aside from taking away a person's freedom a la 2nd Amendment} for the rest of his/her natural days and constantly having to live for a long time with the memory of why the person was put in there).

Silence ...

[quiller4]

44. But those bishops are in the minority and one in PA was removed from his

post just last week. The NCCB has come out in favor of health care reform.

[gratuitous]

13. This seems like a weekly post

And the bigoted responses are as tiresome and predictable as the mindless blather on the Rush Limbaugh hatefest.

[QC]

19. Yes, it's our little Sunday morning ritual around here. n/t

[still_one]

16. Some of the Catholic bishops and leadership were quite vocal against Kerry, and Obama

regarding abortion, but I haven't heard very much from the Catholic leaders in this country regarding healthcare, as they do abortion

It is pretty ironic, since they perceive abortion as destroying a life not born, but they don't have much passion in saving a life already born

[quiller4]

45. But the majority were tied into Catholics for Obama. n/t

[gopiscrap]

24. Thank you

Iam the Chair of a project called the MICAH Project..it is the peace and justice project of the United Methodist Church in Tacoma. In May we held ahealth care rally for reform (our specific project works for a single payer system) but we partnered with 28 other agencies and congregations for a rally to bring about reform. We had over 300 people there including the mayopr of Tacoma who emceed it and the featured speaker was US Congressman Adam Smith...we were on the Seattle CBS affiliate channel 4 times that day. BUt usually you're right..it's the fundies and nastiest they spew that gets covered.

[Jkid]

34. The reason that fundamentalists get TV time

They match the political oritentation of the conservatives that own the media, and the these same fundamentalists use their money to their advantage in the media for preaching. While the mainline churches would rather use the money for actually helping people instead of purchasing tv time for programs.

[QC]

43. Bingo! n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

35. I appreciate this list- would like to add one to it, and also encourage

you to make it a separate post-


Those who want to use it as a chance to mock something they don't share don't really matter- There are people who will read it though, who are sincerely interested in hearing the perspectives of more than just the radical or media favorite "faiths"-


thanks for posting your links, and for speaking up.

this is a pretty ecumenical link- but worthwhile i think.

http://www.faithfulreform.org/

:hi:

take heart- you aren't alone!

[Overseas]

41. That's right. It just proves our broadcast media is dominated by the right wing.

Cash rules. The private insurers paid millions to right wing PR firms to gin up dangerous fear and hatred in vulnerable populations and got Medicare recipients to storm town halls to protest government interference in health care. They paid a lot of money for that "genuine grass roots sentiment" so by golly, they're going to get their coverage.

The sincere religious leaders who calmly discuss the moral imperative of caring for the poor and uninsured are rather dull. Just too sensible. Too old-fashioned. And they might want to discuss why we need to try so hard to make the public option fair for the insurance companies when they've been so unfair to us-- dropping more and more people from coverage, driving more and more into bankruptcy to pay medical bills.

Can't have that. The private sector has paid for "genuine opposition to reform" so by golly, they're going to get it. And our privatized broadcasting system will get more of their advertising.

All hail the Free Market; Cash Rules! Morality and empathy are outdated.

[pinto]

4. Good point. n/t

[barbtries]

5. i'll guess

off the top of my head. they want health care reform, but so many of them are whores to the republicans that they dare not say it aloud?

[morningglory]

6. I live in a nesting-area for fundies. They are all into prosperity gospel now.

If God loves you, you will be successful. The aging ones who have married abusive sh!ts, and now lost all their money in the stock markets are very bitter, and wondering what it is all about. Why, God? The ministers are all right wing.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Your story just cheered me up a little bit.

;)

[HughMoran]

7. Guess they want people to be destitute due to lack of health care

Those are some of their most dedicated customers/recruits ya know.

[OHdem10]

8. I read a post here at DU yesterday, I believe, American Catholic

Bishops support Health Insurance Reform. Religious Leaders
on the Right put their loyalty to Republican Party over
and Cultural Issues God ,Gays, Guns and Abortion above
all else. Religious Leaders on Left have supported Health
Insurance Reform.

[still_one]

17. They may support it, but they sure aren't vocal about it. They were quite vocal about abortion

and civil rights, but not now

[jwirr]

9. My guess is that since their congregations pay for theirs they do not

care about ours. This was the attitude years ago and I doubt it has changed. By the way not all churches are the same. I belong to a very liberal church.

[gopiscrap]

26. So do I

I belong to a United Methodist Church that is way to the left of even our own denomination and some what left of even most of the UMC in our own conference!

[movonne]

10. The part of religion that is not coming out are just another wing of

the repug party...they have no morals...

[fascisthunter]

14. because they represent political interests and not spiritual interests

or the livelihoods of there own "flock".

[asdjrocky]

20. Because they are fucking frauds.

Anything else?

[still_one]

21. Tell me what you really think /nt

[QC]

25. Except that all the mainline religious leaders *have* called for reform. n/t

[asdjrocky]

28. Who are the mainline religious leaders?

The only religious leaders I can think of are kooks and cranks. Can you name one who is not a kook or a crank?

[QC]

31. See post 3. n/t

[asdjrocky]

32. Good point. Thank you.

I think the problem is the media is not letting us know this.

[QC]

33. Only fundamentalists get TV time.

Of course, it's the fundamentalists who can always be counted on to toe the corporate line.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. WOW- thank YOU-

i really appreciate that you took the time to check out QC's excellent post-

And to respond as you did-

:hi:

you're an inspiration.

[asdjrocky]

38. Too many people around here set in their ways like they are made of stone

and anchored to iron. I'm wrong all the time, and more than a few of the smarter and better informed people here at DU have many times taken their own time to set me straight.

For me, dialog is what this place should be about, not who's right and who's wrong. I do wish more people felt that way.

Thanks for noticing.

[michaz]

27. Today there was a LTE from a nun in Upstate NY. She was pushing

for health coverage that the President is trying to get. Even the priests in this area are for it.

[tsuki]

29. Would the Millionaire$Media report it if they did? They are too

enamored of Tony Perkins and James Dobson.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Some are weakly speaking up

but not like they have for past issues. They need to be encouraged to do so. They need to be urged to find methods of getting their message out. It would also help if they actually accepted all people as equals, many of them are so anti gay that they fear being around those who are not acid thowing homophobes. Jim Wallis is one who tries, but is held back by his own prejudices in his quest to find a larger audience. He's got a good mind, but a bigoted heart, and that keeps him from being a true carrier of the good message.
Frank Schaffer is doing much better with it, because he has actual courage and passion and seeks redemption for what he knows are past wrongs. So he is afraid to be weak, and thus is not weak. He also keeps any personal prejudices to himself, and in perspective with the reality of the teachings, which are far more concerned with mere honesty than with any form of sexuality. His honesty makes him a good spokesperson, his lack of ego makes him able to speak to people without mitigating clauses about who is and who is not holy enough.
The UCC, some grand congregations.
But there is a difference between supporting something and making certain that support is well known. Blaming the media is laughable, because you know the religious right simply bought their way on to TV, and others could do the same. Or they could make big watchable events that will get covered. Back in the day, clergy got arrested, dragged away. Now they issue mealy mouthed press statements and wonder why the networks don't come to hear them read it out loud, at the appointed time and place, just before lunch, after the meeting with the accountant. I remember hunger strikes and ministers chained to fences in protest.Now, well, we send a fax to the newspaper and let it go at that.
To those whom much is given, much is indeed expected.

[TheKentuckian]

39. Because many of them hate Jesus and his socialist values (nt)

[jeffbr]

40. Because they're in the business of collecting SOULS. How can you give them your soul without DYING

You gotta die first.

[scentopine]

42. Republican, Inc purchased Jesus, Inc. in a pure stock transaction...

Jesus loves rich people and punishes poor people.

[Crunchy Frog]

46. Because God only cares about teh gay and teh fetuses.

[panzerfaust]

48. For much of history most Christian Sects taught that

illness came from God as punishment for Sin, and was thus deserved. To seek an earthly cure, was to defy God.

God, only, could heal the sick.

Of course, for much of the history of medicine, this likely was true - at least with respect to physicians being able to heal anything other than physical trauma (such as broken bones) - that has not been true for a least 150 years, but it takes the Church awhile to catch up.

After all, Copernicus's book setting forth the evidence for a sun-centered solar system only came off the Holy Mother Church's Index Librorum Prohibitorum (list of books prohibited - by pain of damnation - to be read) in about 1760. The Index itself was finally only abolished in about 1970.

These things take time.

[QC]

49. All of the mainline churches have come out for healthcare reform.

See post 3.

[panzerfaust]

50. For at least 4,000 years it has been taught that illness

- in the Abrahamic Tradition - is punishment for Sin.

There are still many Christian sects that teach that doctrine specifically. Or, or they teach that it is only through the Grace of God that you can be healed - and that, to consult physicians - is to fail in your faith and to thus imperil your soul, or that of your children.

Sadly, it is a rare fortnight that passes without another story of parents who have saved their child's soul, at the cost of their life (here on Earth).

I do not know, thus do not deny, that "mainline" churches may have come out in favor of healthcare reform.

My point was that for centuries Christian churches actively discouraged any form of medical intervention other than faith and prayer (and paying the priest for the prayer). Thus it would not be unexpected if (as asserted by the OP) that they had not chose to support healthcare - it takes time to change.

Also, I pointed out that, until about a century and a half ago, the results of prayer, or 'the latest medical care' would likely have been the same. But this is no longer true, and healthcare should be available to all of the citizens of this, the most wealthy country in the world.

Note that I did not even launch into a discussion of the fact that the OP's describing Churches as being in the fore-front of civil rights is untrue. That, this had very little truth until the 1950s (many works support the fact that the power of the Church was used to defend slavery in the US antebellum South), and that even then it was true of only a minority of churches - at least of those in the South who continued to support segregation. In fact, I doubt that you could have found a segregationist who was not a regular church goer. Indeed, when was it that the LDS Church started letting Black Americans "fully participate" in their church? 1980 or so?

I do not like social inequality, and that IS something that the church has always fought for and supported - at least since Emperor Constantine made (one sect of) Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire in about 320 CE.

There is a reason that the period of undisputed rule of the Roman Catholic Church in Europe is still called the "Dark Ages," recent revisionist Christian apologetics non-with-standing.

What were the Churches saying about access to health-care for all in this country 5 years ago?

[Vinca]

51. A whole lot of them seem to worship Stock Market Jesus.

[Joanne98]

52. Because they're HERETICS!