Please, its not a Geico commercial

[MichaelHarris]

First let me say I'm no fan of Hip-Hop lyrics, I'm no fan of racism or derogatory remarks towards women. What I am against is the right-wing media turning the Imus thing into an attack on a culture and it's music.

In the music the songs deal with mostly fictional characters much like the Geico caveman. Unlike the cavemen the Rutgers women are real, they are not fiction. To tie Imus's attack to Hip-Hop music is absurd, would those making the comparisons want us to go back and censor any song, any book that was derogatory towards women or any other culture? Shall we remove The Color Purple from video shelves? When will "rape and pillage" be taboo when discussing those of Scandinavian descent? Can we even write a novel about Genghis Khan?

The Rutgers women are not "fictional cavemen", they are real human beings with real feelings. Their life is not a story or a song. What story that may be written about them has now been stolen by a closet racist who let his mind get ahead of his mouth.

Michael Harris

[YDogg]

1. tell that to young women who are marginalized and objectified because of hip-hop imagery.

Women who are objectified through this music are just as real as the Rutgers women. I'm guessing you don't have a daughter?

[MichaelHarris]

3. So

we have to have daughters to actually have a voice in the debate? That is as laughable as trying to blame Hip-Hop, which I actually hate, for what Imus said. Hopefully you'll re-read what I wrote, what line will you draw? Will you censor anything written about Henry the 8th?

The talking heads have no right blaming music for what Imus said, and you have no right implying that one must have children to actually discuss a topic. How many Snoop CDs do you think Imus really has? His words came from no artist, they came from no CD, they came from him. Are you really one of the Hip-Hop blamers?

"Women were created to be man's helpmate, but her unique role is in conception . . . since for other purposes men would be better assisted by other men." Thomas Aquinas, long before Hip-Hop

Now should we also scrub the history books? I'm NOT defending Hip-Hop, I'm attempting to stop the excuses made by some in the media for Imus's remarks. He alone said them, he directed them at a group of women who had no voice. How deep will your censorship cut cleansing the archives of anything you think is derogatory? You'll have to go back pretty far with the hi-lighter to get it all.

[bliss_eternal]

6. Actually, there is some validity to the argument...

...even though it's coming from the right wing. They are just trying to distract from the fact that they are bigoted, and support each other in their bigotry, as if those on the left don't recognize that. :eyes:

But back to the hip hop thing. I was watching Maya Angelou yesterday on MSNBC say the exact same thing. I know many, many people within the black community that have said this for years (i.e. Spike Lee, Bill Cosby, Michael Dykstra to name a few). It's not really a ridiculous argument. The fact that the right wing regularly promotes hatred of people of color makes them pointing it out ridiculous. But in and of itself, no--not off at all.

Imus and rappers different ways to achieve the same thing. Both disparage women in their "work."

[MichaelHarris]

7. I agree with you

but the one difference is Maya Angelou, Spike Lee, Bill Cosby, and Michael Dykstra are not using the argument to defend to defend Imus. They've always had the message. The media who is making the comparison now is only doing it to "protect" one of their own. It would be like Sean Hannity going on a speaking tour speaking to young black America about how Hip-Hop de-values them. That's just not something that is going to happen.

[bliss_eternal]

10. Oh, yes...

...I said the same. :)

They are definitely trying to protect their own and take the eyes from their page, by saying"...look what they do to their own people!" Well, um...already aware guys. What's your excuse? Oh, yeah--you're bigots. :eyes:

[napi21]

2. I doubt they're talking about the songs referring to the Geico caveman

when they refer to Hip Hop lyrics. I haven't heard much Hip Hop, it's just not my choice of music. I'm an old fart, so I hope you understand that.

The fewsongs I have heard sure weren't referring to cavemen. I gotta tell ya, it's the ONLY time I ever heard the words ho, bitches, kill all the cops, etc. used in any music. I think that's wrong to do.

I don't want censorship, but I'd sure love to hearthat music with lyrics like that just aren't selling so the artists have stopped making them. I realize it's at least partly youthful rebellion, and every generation does that. Part of it is the shock factor too. Neither of those reasons make it right though.

[FredScuttle]

4. The "rap" counterargument in a nutshell:

White guys bitching that they can't say "nigger" like that 50 Cent fella.

[MichaelHarris]

5. You got it

dead on.

[alphafemale]

8. yep

there it is.

[alphafemale]

9. delete-double post

[bliss_eternal]

11. Clearly...

...your counterargument "argument" gets so much mileage considering you had to write out a racial slur, all spelled out and in quotes no less. :eyes: Hmmmm, wonder why THAT'S necessary?

...Oh wait...what's this I found?

Felt so good writing it, you had to write it out twice apparently:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=651051#652289

How clever!

Good for you, exercising your free speech rights and all.

In the process of condemning a man for being insensitive, and using words that hurt, of course it makes perfect sense to write out a racial slur FULL FORM on a board where others probably wouldn't get the meaning if you abbreviated it as SO MANY others have been "sensitive enough" to do the last few days or so. But of course, free speech trumps all, right? Of course it does.

Let's not be at all concerned that other DU'ers may have negative connotations of such a word, and really, dislike seeing other members seemingly using it gratuitously. Screw people's feelings when there's a point to be made, right? Riiiiight!

:eyes:

Go free speech!!!

[FredScuttle]

13. So? You just repeated yourself?

:WTF:

My point is that all these white pundits are furiously trying to get into the racial, sexist slur game. DJ Morton Kondracke is calling Death Row records every day about his demo "'Bow Down, Ho'and Other Typical Statements From the Black Community"

[bliss_eternal]

14. Perhaps...

...but regardless of your alleged ethnic status, it doesn't help the cause that you write out a slur that is obviously still huring the community at large in countless ways. It merely adds to the on-going cycle of people pointing back to the community asking why they can't say it, spell it out, etc. when the community uses it themselves.

No one needs to use it--black, white, grey, green. That DJ you mentioned wouldn't have any ammunition if rappers weren't using it at all. If people like them (and you) had enough self and communal respect to understand the word has blood on it, and despite the context, it's still horrible. Take it out of the poison bottle--it's still poison.

Look at all the bruhaha around it, and words like it--where does it stop? Certainly not here, with the community using it to address themselves. :mad::eyes::(

I can't tell you what to do. You're an adult. But clearly, given the context of the conversation it's understood the cycle these things go through. You aren't helping anyone here by using it the way you did--even in the context you did.

I can't stop you from using it. DU allows it in the context of discussion (unfortunately). But don't think for a minute every person on this board is going to allow people like you that feel the need to, to do so unchallenged.

As the kids used to say, check yourself.

Peace.

[FredScuttle]

18. And how exactly does the term hurt you?

hmmm????

[leftofthedial]

12. what an amazingly tortured rationalization

[Karenina]

15. Hip-hop as a"culture" was MANUFACTURED

and aggressively marketed by WHITE GUYS IN 3-piece suits with the help of a cadre of quislings.

[bliss_eternal]

16. ....!

:thumbsup::hi:

[Karenina]

17. ...

:loveya: :hi: