I never thought I would say this

[Puppyjive]

I had a conversation with my brother about health care. He is a republican, I am a democrat. He does not want health care reform. He doesn't want anything that President Obama wants. He went to a friend's house the other day to pay respects to his wife who just passed away from cancer. He said the house was full of educators who were all democrats. He asked me why educated people are always liberals? My response: Doesn't that tell you something? He said he didn't want to pay for other people to have insurance, like his ex stepdaughter. He said she is always going to the emergency room for health care because she is uninsured. I asked him if he knew who was paying for her bill? No response. Here is the sad side to this story. My brother's wife told me on the same day that she had built up over $12,000.00 credit card debt to pay for her medicine because she has MS and she is under insured. So let me stereotype the republican party for you. They are business owners or poverty stricken who are ignorant, uneducated, tax dodgers, racists, hypocrites, and greedy. They listen to talk radio and watch FOX news. They claim to be christian, but endorse death through warfare, lack of medical insurance, or by killing abortion advocates. They aren't the middle class anymore, they are the very poor or the very rich. They don't care about their fellow Americans anymore nor do they want them to become informed and educated. I never thought I would say this, but as a veteran, I don't know how I could honestly serve my country and put my life on the line for people like this. People united are what defines a country. The republicans are systematically unraveling our nation by treating people as a commodity, not human beings.

[livetohike]

1. A belated welcome to DU!

:hi: Great post, too.

[olegramps]

88. Welcome, but can you clear something up for me?

You state that your brother is against any public option yet his wife is under-insured and is $12,000.00 in debt. Is your brother even rational? How in the hell are they going to afford to buy her medicine and get proper care? It just doesn't make any sense if I understand the situation.

[johnlal]

106. She said he was a republican.

Not rational. I have talked to a number of Republicans on this issue. Many of them push the use of high-deductible insurance with medical savings accounts as the answer to this problem. I try to tell them that this does not address the artificially high healthcare costs, but rather it simply moves more of the burden onto the consumer. They mutter something about "personal responsibility". Here's the thing: While I trust that many of these guys have "high deductible" insurance, I suspect many of them don't have the medical savings accounts. The are 1 catastrophe (or a small series of emergencies) away from bankruptcy.
I have talked to at least 2 conservatives who defended their right to choose to have absolutely no insurance, and "take their chances".
Again, the government HAS a system for taking care of people who don't have health insurance. It's called bankruptcy. After taking your non-exempt assets and wages, you don't have to pay them any more. But guess who DOES have to pay your bills? The rest of us. The ones WITH insurance. The guys who struggle to pay our premiums every month, only to have them arbitrarily raised.

[Maru Kitteh]

Problem is, people who chose not to have insurance are "taking their chances" with everyone else's

money. By "taking their chances" I very much doubt they mean that they intend to lie dying peacefully in a car wreck, refusing medical services and treatment at a life-saving trauma center they could never hope to pay for.

No. Those who can afford insurance and chose to go without it are counting on the rest of society to come through and pay for their sorry ass - but I guess that is the Republican way after all. Bitch about the welfare "those" people get but crawl over the backs of others - pounding, punching and scratching to get to the trough to collect their own, even while amacking their thin, dry lips about "personal responsibility."

[DrZeeLit]

122. No... it's not welfare if you're a Republican -- if you're a Republican it's your due as a true

believer.

You're right... they want the freedom NOT to join the plan, not to have a plan, not to be insured. Freedom of choice.
UNTIL it's time to choose: call 911 or die?

Then when someone else pays for that saved life, it's not, never, nada, nyet Welfare. Oh nooooooo. Welfare is for black women with six kids of five different fathers. Welfare is for those shriveled up Hispanic wetbacks who pick tomatoes all day for nothing. Welfare is what the maid gets cuz you don't pay her a living wage. Welfare is for ''The Other" -- whoever that is.

But welfare for them, the proud, the few, the Republicans? No. They won't call it welfare. What they will do is IGNORE it. DENY they let somebody else foot the bill. In fact, they LOVE it when they don't have to actually "PAY" for something.

[Go2Peace]

158. Republicans (and most people) don't live by the rational. Read George Lakoff

The Republican strategists have understood what science learned 30 years ago (about the time of Reagan right?), that the mind does not engage through rational discussion. It engages through emotion and previously learned "Frames".

George Lakoff has some great books about this.

[The Magistrate]

2. Well said, Ma'am!

[Pangolin2]

18. How can you tell that poster is a female? I read it 3 times and fail to see the

clue.
??

[Puppyjive]

20. I am a female

[roguevalley]

27. nice post. welcome, puppyjive. I have the same problem in my

family.

[Pangolin2]

31. I hope you did not think I was implying anything derogatory! It was just a question...

Perhaps there were literary clues too subtle for my limited perception. I appreciated your post anyway without regard to your gender!
:D

[Puppyjive]

33. About Puppyjive

Puppyjive was a word I tried to sneak by my husband during a scrabble game. He challenged it and I lost. The humor of it continues to lives on.

[The Magistrate]

41. A Great Story, Ma'am

My moniker owes to some family byplay as well, cemented by a P.B.S. Kids show my then young daughter was fond of....

[NoSheep]

42. HA! That's hysterical! We play Scrabble and "see" words like that but never play them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

110. In my family we allowed for non-dictionary words provided the user

could provide a clear definition that all players could agree made sense - i.e., "frumper" - the opposite of a beautician.

[Jackpine Radical]

151. "Frumper"--Brilliant!

[badgerpup]

134. IIRC...

..the band 'Foghat' got its name the same way...
a word that didn't pass muster on the Scrabble board, but "Dudes, it'd make a good name for the band, ya think?" :headbang:

/threadjack :hi:

[dmr]

74. It's a word now! It's printed right here in this thread!

Welcome to DU, Puppyjive!

[Hansel]

101. I'm a female too.

I use Hansel because the 1st time I met a past boyfriend I was walking into a pub limping with a slightly injured knee. The pub patrons had all been watching a marionette version of Hansel and Gretel on the pub TV (as a joke I'm sure). When I walked through the door he shouted, "Hey! There's Hansel!" The nickname stuck for years. And I also clearly remember the 1st thing he ever said to or regarding me.

Someday we should have a thread to see how everyone came up with their poster name. It should be interesting.

Welcome to DU!

[Schema Thing]

23. c'mon man,

it's the fucking magistrate.

[johnaries]

68. Exactly! I don't know how he does it, but he always does.

The Magistrate Rocks!

[question everything]

35. The Magistrate has been a moderator here since Day One

and finally eased after a certain day last November.

He has developed a Sixth sense to know these and other things.

His only problem is that some women on DU - and in the real world - take offense at being addressed as Ma'am. Yes, including Senator Barbara Boxer.

Ma'am, of course, is the equivalent of Sir and I am not aware of any man taking offense. Many boys were, perhaps still are, brought up to call their dad Sir.

:hi:

[Bette Noir]

59. Miss Manners say s that "Ma'am" is an appropriate form of address

for Queens, Senators, and even one's own mother.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Piewhacket]

108. The Magistrate's use of "Sir" is sometimes objectionable. Indeed,

I have taken him to task for it. Courtesy in print is not measured
by naked words, but by the context and circumstances in which they
are offered.

We are sometimes taught 'maam' and 'sir' as the respectful manner of address
of children to adults. But whether it is proper for adults depends.

"Ma'am" may be objectionable in a variety of circumstances, to various people,
for various reasons. It is wise to be alert, and neither assume it to be
proper address, nor defiantly declare it so over an objection.


And I would never presume to call Barbara Boxer "Ma'am". "Senator Boxer" is the proper
form of address for Barbara Boxer, unless you are one of her children or grandchildren,
(who are usually privileged to call their grandmother a family name like 'gramma').

I hope this etiquette commentary has been of some use.
I remind of rule #3 of this forum.

[question everything]

113. Considering how many derogatory terms have been hurled at DUers

the least of them is "troll" I don't know why anyone should object to "Sir" or to "Ma'am." One has to wonder what kind of upbringing they had. Of course, I've heard of women charging at any man holding a door for them.

Some of us learn new things on DU and I learning some manners could be a beneficial addition.

When you start a presentation you address her as "Senator Boxer." When she asks you a question, you reply "Yes, Ma'am," or "No, Ma'am." Same as with "Yes, Sir," or "No, Sir."

Either way, for her to make an issue of that, and to offend a military man who appeared before her showed pettiness that, really, I did not expect from her.

[Piewhacket]

125. A Senator is not your 'sir' or 'maam'. However, a military person, in uniform,

might reasonably use such a term in address to a senator as it is
strictly enforced in military protocol, and in any event a serviceman
should be permitted the privilege or be excused in the event it is
unwelcome.

I was not there. It is nonetheless distressing for me to hear that
anyone, especially a serviceman, would feel discourteously treated
by Sen Boxer. Sometimes people mis-communicate when no
offense is intended. Boxer may have good reason to be touchy about
being addressed as 'ma'am' and might have reacted more harshly than
needed in your circumstance. As a Californian, I regret any discourtesy
by my senator. Sincerely.

In close, some people are a might touchy, so care is to be taken. For example,
I don't like being called a "troll", and the last serviceman who called
me that was later found with his uniform shoved up his @ followed by his dress
sword and the word "popsicle" written across his forehead in indelible ink.
Probably pissed someone else off too, eh? Oh, what a world.

[AlbertCat]

135. I was taught to call my parents and teachers "Sir" and Ma'am"

Chill.... dudes!

[elias7]

149. Right, but do you still?

I called my middle school teachers sir and ma'am as well, but you could say it any way you wanted, with implied respect and deference, or with condescension and scorn.

Sort of like being told to chill when trying to converse on a point. Perhaps you are the Arbiter of Mellow and have rightly pegged too high a pitch. If so, then I will call you Sir, sir.

[The Magistrate]

144. If You Ever Have, Sir, It Has Quite Slipped My Mind....

As will this as well, in very short order....

[Piewhacket]

160. I am quite certain,Sir, that I could quickly bring it to your recall.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
(Santayana)

[The Magistrate]

161. If You Have no Better Use For Your time, Sir, That Would Be Just One More Difference Between Us....

"I'm going home now. Someone bring me some frogs and some bourbon."

[Piewhacket]

164. I am the keeper of my time, Sir, not you. But by all means, return to your frogs and bourbon.

[Piewhacket]

172. addendum: Magistrates sig

for the record, The Magistrate's sig 11Sep09:

"When asked why calling things by their right names was so important to good governance, the Master replied: "What a boor you are! When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[The Magistrate]

174. The Larger Type Is Appreciated, Sir

Signature type used to be larger. Do you recognize the reference?

[Piewhacket]

177. I was reliably informed, Sir, that you had retired to your bourbon.

Did I recognize 'the reference'???

Well, I saw no 'reference' attending the sig, but it seems to be
a PARODY intended to MOCK Confucius. Coupled with the "Magistrate" handle
makes it an irresistibly and sublimely droll mockery, so well-done.

Thanks for the giggle, Sir. In return here's a "Chinese proverb"
you may use for your next sig:

"Man who fart in church sit in own pew."

[omega minimo]

145. The offense

is continuing to use "Ma'am" after being made well aware that it is unwelcome and annoying.

[jgraz]

61. A man would have used more line breaks

JK, Puppyjive. Welcome to DU. :hi:

[omega minimo]

146. He can't

[kestrel91316]

3. Excellent post. And I second that WELCOME!

[me b zola]

4. Welcome to DU, Puppyjive

You seem to have a pretty good fix on what the republican party has become. I would add to your list they are also bullies.

[CountAllVotes]

7. not only are they bullies

they are quickly becoming irrelevant. I told this to the DNC when they called my house asking for a $100 donation to fight the likes of the "leaders" of the puke party - namely Limpballs, Gingrich, and Cheney.

As we see today, KNEW in San Francisco has dumped Savage alas.

The tide is turning slowly.

Welcome to the DU to the OP!

:kick:

[Arugula Latte]

5. Have you ever asked your brother what he thinks about his

wife being uninsured and in debt? What happens if she becomes increasingly disabled (won't necessarily happen as MS has a wide range of outcomes and severity, etc., but it could very well happen)... Does he think that's a good system we have, where healthcare is unaffordable for people who have serious illnesses?

:hi:

[polmaven]

119. Without the reform,

she will probably be refused insurance at this point anyway....MS is most certainly a pre-existing condition.

[AlbertCat]

136. Have you ever asked your brother what he thinks about his

wife being uninsured and in debt?

**********

He made that clear! He doesn't want to pay for ANYBODY ELSE'S health care.



Y'know. I don't want to pay for anybody else's war.... or golden parachute.... or off shore tax haven.... or religion


But I do. So get over your dumb self, brother! People really can be unrealistically dense. Y'know "Think Globally" really is something to push. Or maybe just "THINK".

[Lilyeye]

6. You're right.

I don't like to stereotype anyone, but the repukes I come in contact with everyday are just what you described. It's really sad to watch family and friends I care for throw out logic and reason.

[JuniperLea]

21. Oh dear... a few family tidbits...

Upon telling my handsome, and ordinarily very sweet cousin that the US is #50 and Canada is #8 in life expectancy, and providing links to WHO and CIA data supporting my claim...

JUNE, I HAVE WORK WITH THE PUBLIC MOST OF MY WORKING LIFE. I HAVE DELT WITH THE WEALTHY'S PEOPLE TO THE POOREST PEOPLE. I DO NOT HAVE TO DO REASEARCH ON ANY OF THIS. I HAVE LIVED IT, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD EVERYTHING AND HAVE HAD IT ALL TAKEN AWAY. I HAVE WORK WITH AND HAVE HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THIS PLANET.EVERYONE OF THEM CAME HERE FOR A BETTER LIFE FOR THERE FAMILY AND OUR HEALTHCARE WAS THE MAIN REASON FOR COMING HERE. YES TO ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS ABOVE. THAT IS ALL THE FACTS I NEED! I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN ANY REAL FACT'S FROM YOU YET :)

More...

THEY LIVE LONGER BECAUSE THEY COME HERE FOR THERE HEALTHCARE!.......BESIDES WHY SHOULD WE BELEAVE YOUR STATISTICS AND THE INFO. FROM THE WEB SITES YOU GET YOUR INF. FROM YOU SAY THAT WEB SITES THAT EDDIE PUT ON HERE IS WRONG. I GET MY INFO. FROM REAL LIFE HAPPINGS AND REAL PEOPLE I KNOW NOT FROM WEB SITES. THAT IS MY PROOF.

Still more...

I DON'T WATCH THE NEWS ANYMORE SENCE BAMA BECAME PRES. I GOT TIRED OF SEEING HIM ON THERE EVERY DAY. WHEN THERE IS REAL NEWS THEY SHOULD BE SHOWING INSTEAD OF WHAT THE FAR LEFT SAYS THEY SHOULD REPORT ON. I DO WATCH TV BUT ONLY FOR THE SPORTS, CSI SHOWS AND GOOD MOVIES. AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD THE TV CALLED A IDIOT BOX. JUST A BOOB TUBE. LOL:) I HAVE LOOKED AND I JUST DON'T THINK WE WILL EVER SEE THE SAME THING. I WILL ALWAYS GO WITH MY OWN EXPERIENCE AND WITH THE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW HAVE GONE THREW IT THEIR SELF. I JUST HOPE THAT THEY DON'T PASS THE BAMA PLAN. IT IS NOT GOOD FOR US. IT WILL COST US TO MUCH AND I DON'T JUST MEAN MONEY.

I just had to wrap it up...

That's too bad. He's one of the most educated presidents we've ever had. Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he was the president of the Harvard Law Review, and he taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School, he really knows the laws our forefathers created inside and out. You might learn something if you listened to what he has to say. I bet you didn't listen to his speech last night either. You know, you might be able to argue your points more rationally and convincingly if you paid attention to what's going on:) I guess you have just been parroting Glenn Beck all this time:) So, you know nothing at all about what he’s said, but you are willing to bash him. Huh. Interesting. I hated Bush II with a fiery passion… but I listened to every word he said… mostly slurred and incomprehensible, ragged, nonsensical things, but hey, how could I feel just in saying things against him unless I knew first hand what he was saying? I called him Bushie and Dumbya… so your calling Obama “Bama” doesn’t hurt me in the least. It really is a pity you aren’t paying attention to what’s going on. It really is historic. More people in this country voted for him than against him, so since majority rules, we should all make the best of it… like I did for the past 8 years.

How do you know what the Obama plan is if you don't listen to him? How do you know it would cost us too much if you aren't paying attention?

***

I know... I know... you can't reason with them... and the all cap yelling thing just makes it worse.

[Matariki]

50. Is English your cousin's first language?

His writing would be excusable if it's not, but otherwise... oy...

[Stardust]

62. Yikes! Maybe I need to reconsider my sigline.

:blush:

I chose it because Obama loves pie and I love Bama Pies and, gee, what a happy coincidence!

What do you think?

Great response to a very disturbing email, BTW. This mindset among the RWers boggles the mind. Olbermann called them out tonight in one of his "Special Comments." It brought tears to my eyes.

[barbtries]

80. not to mention

the horrific spelling. wow. it's actually very sad when ignorance is something to be celebrated and hate allowed to rule.

[diane in sf]

86. Sadly, your cousin can't read or write and doesn't have any real tools for evaluating

information from competing sources. He is not well-educated, but doesn't know it. He doesn't know how he knows what he thinks he knows. Also sadly he is part of an epidemic of the deliberate gutting of public education and mass media disinformation.

[KatyMan]

100. All caps is a sure sign of a nut

And the spelling. Everybody makes typos or occassionally reverse things like there and their, but with wingnuts, it's always obvious they are clueless. I post on the Houston Chronicle article comments a lot, and just the ignorance of the language is enough to drive you crazy, let alone they're views (sic).

but what is it with this thing about him being on tv? He's the president, for jeebus' sake. All presidents are on tv all the time, and they should be.
And the teleprompter thing--do they really think Obama is the only prez to ever use a teleprompter? Are you that fucking stupid?

Anyway, back to the Chronicle to fight with the goobers, racists and slugs.

[Maru Kitteh]

128. They live longer because they come here for healthcare? It would be worth it to take that apart

thoroughly and leave the rest of it alone.

Approximately how many Canadians require or desire a visit to a clinic or physician in a given day? It has to be in the high tens of thousands at the least right?

In order to significantly affect life expectancy, a sizable portion of them would have to instead come here for medical care in order for that to be true.

How far would most of them have to travel?

How many cross the border on a daily basis now, and how many would have to be added?

What kind of traffic load would that represent at the border?

How could the American clinics on the border possibly absorb 70,000 - 1xx,000 Canadians every day?

How would they pay for it? Americans can't afford healthcare, Canadian's coverage is no good here, and the uninsured are charged even more than the insured here. I mean, if they're taxed to within an inch of their lives in Canada like we keep hearing, how could they possibly afford all that?


The truth? Here's a stody that shows that one-half of 1% of Canadians seek care in the United States in any given year - and only one-quarter of those come to the US for the express reason of receiving care.

http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection/Statcan/82F0068X/about_e.pdf

Ask him what kind of miracle allows the nation of Canada to increase it's overall life expectancy by having a mere 1/16th of 1 percent of their population treated in the United States healthcare system.

[AlbertCat]

147. THAT IS ALL THE FACTS I NEED! I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN ANY REAL FACT'S FROM YOU YET

Anecdotal evidence vs. statistical, empirical evidence.

People really do need to take logic classes in school...early and often!

[treestar]

162. How come these alleged Canadians who come here for health care

somehow get better benefit out of it than the U.S.? They are 8 and we are 50 so it must somehow help them more! :rofl:

[Spazito]

8. Excellent Opening Post!

Well said.

A belated Welcome to DU!

Recommended.

[Joe Fields]

9. an honest rant that deserves a read. thank you.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Does your brother understand how insurance works?

The premiums you pay for coverage are used to pay OTHER PEOPLE'S medical bills as well as your own. So even if nothing changes and we continue with an expensive and inefficient system based on private coverage, your dumbass brother and his wingnut pals will still be picking up other people's doctor bills as well as the costs for uninsured people who have to go to the emergency room. Why these idiots don't understand that reform will benefit them is just beyond me.

[Critters2]

37. I keep explaining this to people...health insurance IS paying other people's

dr. bills. Along with insurance execs' ridiculous salaries.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. Yep. The main difference between government health care

(like Medicare) and private insurance is that while in both cases you are paying other people's doctor bills, in the case of private for-profit insurance they are taking 25% off the top for CEO salaries and stock dividends.

[omega minimo]

11. "He asked me why educated people are always liberals?"

:rofl:

[NoSheep]

43. PROVING: They just don't get it.

:silly: Rilly. I'm being series.

[omega minimo]

44. Proving they don't LISTEN to anybody, including themSELVES!!!!

:spray:

[Alcibiades]

49. Because they are indoctrynaded at the collages!

My dad thinks this of me, despite the fact that I have been a left winger since the time he was in the 'Nam. He apparently thought my doctorate program in political science was some sort of left-wing boot camp, the irony being that my major professor and one of my other committee members were both Straussians from Chicago.

[Stardust]

64. That must've been a challenge to impress any of those wingnuts. Kudos! nt

[Alcibiades]

111. Not really

Actual academic Straussians are intellectuals--real ones. They value ideas, and are quite interested in a real debate with folks who don't agree with them. They are, in the Straussian argot, kind to the puppies of their kind. Much of their sanctification of Socrates revolves around the model of Socratic inquiry as the best possible life. They are too thoughtful to qualify as wingnuts.

For the most part. They have their downsides, of course, but by and large they just like to stay in their offices and do their work, like any other academic.

[ginnyinWI]

71. oh my dad's got an answer for that question:

He says that everyone who goes to a university gets brainwashed into thinking like a Liberal! Gee, why didn't I think of that? Of course--it's the old "brainwash them in college" trick! :rofl:

The irony is, my dad, although he is a cranky old coot of an 81 year old now, actually has a university education himself! And he was a high school math teacher for 35 years!!

Then FOX ate his brain and the rest is history.

[diane in sf]

87. Same happened to my formerly liberal 84 yr old dad. They are old enough to think there

is still news on TV.

[trusty elf]

78. That's a classic, isn't it!

:eyes:

[Historic NY]

91. what????? They're onto us now.

:wow:

[omega minimo]

143. Look out!!

:rofl:

[SharonAnn]

163. Because uneducated people are always conservative?

[JerseygirlCT]

173. Because, as Colbert says

reality has a decidedly liberal bias.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Welcome to DU

[hamsterjill]

13. Well put!

The Republicans only care about the human beings as long as the umbilical chord is attached. After it is cut, they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

[redqueen]

14. "The republicans are systematically unraveling our nation ..."

Well said all around... but I especially love the last sentence. Bravo.

[get the red out]

15. You described how I have been feeling

I understand exactly what you are talking about. I also empathize with your relationship with your brother and trying to make him see and can't. Been there - done that with someone close to me.

Welcome to DU! Thanks for this post.

[asdjrocky]

16. Dude, welcome!

It wasn't always like this. There was a time, long long ago, when I could actually talk to some people on the right.

[TxRider]

17. Sorry

But this reeks of the same mentality you assign to your brother.

Not all rich or business owners are republicans. Nor are all uneducated people republicans.

Nor are all educated people democrats.

Stereotypes like this are evil no matter how much you want to believe them.

They are a part of the human condition that divides us and allows us to more easily dehumanize other human beings, which is never productive.

[Xzanther]

85. Well sir..

If you didn't catch the ultimate contradiction that.. most Republicans are Pro-Life and don't think there should be a health care option for everyone including all those babies they want to live.. Yeah.. I'd say Republicans are pretty stupid.

[TxRider]

129. True enough, point taken.

[lysosome]

165. It's an evil stereotype... but a correct statistic.

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~bergen/bush.html
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED503486&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED503486

Just the first two I could pull off of google.

[JuniperLea]

19. Well said! And welcome to DU!

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans -- unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing." – Karl Rove

[lysosome]

166. I had to look that quote up just to see if it was true!

But the site had a picture of Rove! Oh jesus, my eyes!

[kimmerspixelated]

22. What archery!

Seriously, seriously well put! You mirrored so many exact thoughts we're all having.

[sarge43]

24. Welcome to DU and a great post.

Don't let them grind you down troop.

We swore or affirmed to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, not any particular group. If Repugs benefited from our service, well, thems the breaks. They talk, we walk.

Our country, Constitution and most Americans are greater on their worst days than they are on their best. The more they don't care; the more we must.

I served under Nixon and Reagan. I held my nose and soldiered on. I also served under Kennedy and Carter. It evens out.

As my dear mother once told me, "Just be patient. The bastards will put up their heads and you'll get your shot at 'em."

[NC_Nurse]

25. Agreed. Ignorance and a serious lack of compassion or depth are at the heart

of our problem. These people don't know and they don't WANT to know. After a while, it's hard not to stop caring about them and their plight.
Funny how they don't realize that "the poor" are them (or soon to be them).

[fadedrose]

26. Welcome home nt

[gleaner]

28. A very good post ...

You have put forth very lucidly what is wrong with this whole health care debate. The people who seem to have the most to say, and who say it very loudly are the people who have no empathy for others. We have just come off a very divisive 8 years of government catering to such people and we are all reeling. I don't think I have ever seen Americans ripping away at each other to this degree.

Thanks for coming to DU, and welcome.;)

I send my thoughts and sympathy to your Sister in law. I have MS, too, and it is not a benign disease. I hope she can get the care she needs. The credit card granters are as down on people who are not rich in a very brutal way. They were given the laws they needed to do this by the very people you are describing. I hope that somewhere on somebody's busy agenda there is a note to reform the credit practices in this country. Credit reform is long over due and much needed, as is health care reform. I wish you and your family the best, and I hope you will all be alright in spite of everything.

[katkat]

46. credit reform

Yes, sometime when I wasn't looking usury somehow became legal. What happened? (I know, someone paid off Congress, what else is new.)

[olegramps]

90. It took place under Reagan.

The state laws limiting the percentage was overturned.

[gleaner]

170. Yes ....

And a lot of the regulation of banking practices that helped the average consumer were done away with too. That is why if one of my checks hits the bank the same day as my electronic deposit, they charge me as if it were NSF even though the deposits come from the federal government and the bank can see them coming down the pipe for about two days before I get access to them.

That's another thing. I used to get access to my deposits the same day the bank did and they used to have to be available on or before their due date in the case of those that fell on a weekend or holiday. Now I can't touch them until afterwords and the bank gets the use of the money while I get bupkus.

There are lots of other changes that are deleterious to consumers, there just isn't enough space to list them. It is a real pisser.

[Duppers]

29. Bravo! nt

nt

[girl gone mad]

30. +1

Hope you stick around.

[lunatica]

32. You'd be putting your life on the line for their oil and profits, not for them

We haven't had a justified war since the Axis and the Japanese tried to take over. Not one.

[OnionPatch]

34. I've always thought they were the party of selfishness.

It's very telling that they have so much power. They are proof that we humans still have a lot of evolving to do yet.

[mike_c]

36. welcome to DU and what a pleasure to recommend this excellent post....

:hi:

[midnight]

39. Glad to be the 60 person to rec this.

[Laelth]

40. Wow. Well said. k&r

And thank you for your service to our country.

:patriot:

:dem:

-Laelth

[greyghost]

45. Welcome to DU K&R eom

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

47. I have 3 right winger siblings

and as long as they can still afford health insurance
the rest of us be damned.

They also fail to see how this situation impacts our country economically.

And ours is one of the unusual countries where the citizen's well being is
considered unimportant, that corporations are number 1.

[madmax]

48. Nail ...meet Puppyjive

Welcome to DU. :toast:

[Libertas1776]

51. Excellent Puppyjive!

K & R

[dugaresa]

52. I know a lot of business owners who are democrats and are struggling to find insurance

not all are republicans.

i have a friend who just finished off paying off a $22K hospital bill because he is uninsured. he is a contractor, can't get insurance at a reasonable rate due to pre-existing conditions for his wife and he.

they feel bad that their subcontractors don't have insurance and donate a lot to democrats.

[TxRider]

150. I'm one of them

Though my costs actually dropped last year going to blue cross.

When I started the company before this one, I went to buy insurance for my employees.

I had to deny myself access to the plan, I had gallstones, needed surgery, but that preexisting condition would have raised rates significantly for the whole staff.

I ended up keeping myself out of the plan, paying 10,000+ out of pocket for surgery, and signed up later.

The only time in my life I have really needed health care. Luckily I had the $10k, and one of my investors was a doctor who did the actual surgery for $2500 and got a me break on some other parts like lab work.

Even as a business owner, if one of my 12 employees was to get really sick, it would raise the rates, and I would have to stop providing health care, fire someone, or go broke.

[maxpower]

53. Welcome to DU

I have had the conversation with some of my family members.


Peace,
Max

[trickyguy]

54. Thank you for your honest words. I pretty much agree about the Repubs.

[applegrove]

55. I am very pleased to give you the 101th vote. You have it in a nutshell.

[hfojvt]

56. it's too bad that you did

Do you think stereotypes are helpful?

Also, there is a bit of a contradiction. According to you, Republicans are "treating people as a commodity, not human beings."

Yet you don't seem to think these Republicans are human beings. They are "ignorant, uneducated, tax dodgers, racists, hypocrites and greedy". They are not people like you, they are 'people like this'. People who are so bad that they ruin the whole country for you.

I subscribe to the radical notion that Republicans are people too. Human beings, just like you and me and the guy behind the tree. Some are good and some are bad. Some have good days and some have bad. Some have blind spots and double standards. Some are mean and stupid and some are nice and smart and some are mean and smart and some are nice and stupid. People are people. There is a variety of them in every group.

[lysosome]

167. Again. Statistics rock.

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~bergen/bush.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/healthcare/la-na-uninsured-rural2-2009sep02,0,1307203.story

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. So your brother is a ignorant, greedy, racist hypocrite. Where did your parents screw up with him?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

93. maybe there is a Republican gene that's inherited?

:shrug:

[Dumak]

58. Republicans enjoy knowing they played a part in someone else's pain. NT

[MissDeeds]

60. Great post

"He asked me why educated people are always liberals". Wow. My husband and I were just having this conversation tonight. In his family, all who graduated from college are Democrats. In my family, all who graduated from college are Democrats. On both sides, those who didn't are Republicans.

That's not to say a college education is the only means by which one can become "educated", but a natural intellectual curiosity and willingness to explore the nature of "truths" is essential. Too many Republicans are closed minded and prefer to have "facts" interpreted for them and spoon fed to them by the likes of Rush, Beck, and Bill-O.

[HughMoran]

63. You've said an awful lot in one paragraph

I love concise and you've encapsulated where we are and why Republicans are evil in the fewest words ever. :)

[KT2000]

65. Wow! well said

I too am shocked at what Americans have become.
Love the line "people united are what defines a country."

[Stardust]

66. K&R.

I've been saying for a long time that to be a Republican, you're either very rich or very ignorant. Gross generalization? Yeah, probably. Stereotyping? Yeah, probably. There's a pattern I've noticed time and time again and I needed to simplify it. I try to be less judgmental (I am, after all, a liberal) but their rigid ideology and refusal to empathize frustrate me to the point where I honestly despise them.

[bertman]

67. Welcome, Puppyjive. Excellent post that describes most in my family to a "T".

[johnaries]

69. Welcome, Puppyjive. A sad story, but an inspiring one.

Thanks for sharing.
:grouphug:

[mzmolly]

70. Welcome.

Excellent post!

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

72. This had to be the DU star post of the month! Maybe 6 months. Quite possibly the post of the year!

:applause: :patriot: Thank you!

[DeadEyeDyck]

73. Why don't you just have them log into DU

with you looking over their shoulder and have them read this thread???

You and so many others have spelled it out so well. I can barely type after reading this. How can you fail if they read this. They would have to be severly retarded!! There is nothing left to argue!

[Vroomfondel]

75. Eerily familiar

Your profile of a repug sounds just like the owner of the (small) company that I work for. He's also a mor(m)on. Everyone should have the experience of debating healthcare with a mor(m)on business owner. During spirited debates, he's actually told me "you read too much". Followed by exactly what your brother asked you: "why is it that so many educated people are liberals?" I was dumbfounded. How do you even respond to that? He actually got insulted/feelings hurt, when I told him that he should read something other than the book of mor(m)on.

[Grinchie]

76. You just repeated what Wilhelm Reich described as the Mass Plague.

If you would like to get more insight into the Lunacy that prevails for many people, the cause, and perhaps the cure, check out Wilhelm Reichs Books, the Cancer Biopathy, The Function of the Orgasm, and the rest of his works. Please be aware that they are highly technical works, on par with his Colleague Sigmund Freud, and written in 1930's style. Truly remarkable works, if you can find them.

Don't be afraid of the Title "The Function of the Orgasm". If you are, then after you read the book you'll see why you are afraid of the word.

Another good reference is the Excellent book by Alice Miller titled "For Your Own Good". This book truly changed my life, for it revealed the basis for all of the skeletons I suppressed from my family upbringing. Everyone needs to read this book to get an idea what goes on in the mind of the victims of the Mass Plague of Social Neurosis.

What is truly frightening is the description of the lead up to Fascism by Reich, which is almost a carbon Copy of what we see today on the right. It is too close for comfort, and it serves as a reminder that the methods of Social Control in use today are nothing new. This revelation alone is enough to trigger our innate survival mechanism, and learn to question _EVERYTHING_. Thats what I do now, I question everything, and I research multiple sources, including works done by the pioneers in the 1700's, 1800's and the 1900's and use that to filter out the Bullshit Corporate propaganda that we are innundated with daily.

There is no other way to become conscious without taking the time and approach everything, no matter how disturbing, with an open mind, patience and understanding. Their will come a time when you find books that absolutely paralels your current thouaghts and philosphies, and you just know that you have stumbled onto something of great value.

In the case of your Brother, I know you love him as much as I love mine, but he is an individual, suffering from his own repressed desires and psychic traumas. It is up to him to decide to take responsibility for himself and heal, or he can continue to live his artificially framed life, content to place the blame on others instead of taking control of his destiny.

Take a good lok at your upbringing as Children, get Alice Millers book, and prepare to have the wind knocked out of you.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. Alice Miller!

It's been a long time since I read that name or thought of that great book.

It changed and saved my life, and I cannot total the number of copies I've given away. Truly a revolutionary and brilliant work.

It should be a must-read in every high school in America. I wonder how people would deal with their lives then.

Thanks for a great reminder of a great book..........................

[Grinchie]

84. If you Liked Alice Miller, you'll love Wilhelm Reich.

But I'm kinda of a Nerd, but I believe everyone has the capability to understand technical works that are well written.

Millers book is that missing Catalysts that unleashes ones soul and enables growth that has been stifled unbeknownst to the reader.

After following up with Reich's works, I get the feeling that she actually studied his works and developed it further in the direction of the source of neurosis, while Reich followed the trail towards the discovery of Orgonne Energy. It's pretty clear that he became disheartened by the stupidity of the little man, and the methods of control by High Politics.

I am in sympathy with him, but I have vowed to never give up hope.

[TheKentuckian]

79. PREACH!!!!

K&R

[Tangerine LaBamba]

82. You're joking, right?

You announce that you are going to promote a stereotype, and then you go right ahead and do it, a mosaic of slime, as narrow-minded and absurd as anything I've ever seen here.

I'm not as enthusiastic as others about this OP. I'm appalled at the slavish praise heaped upon it. I can't believe DUers are applauding this kind of thinking.

The idea that an alleged veteran feels comfortable saying that s/he would not fight to defend his countrymen because their politics differ from his/hers is about as far from what I, and others, like to think of as patriotism as anything can be. What would this veteran do? Pull out the ones with whom s/he disagrees, and send them out to defend themselves? Perhaps quarantine them? Camps worked well during WWII, so I suppose internment is always an alternative?

I call bogus on this OP, and I call the support for it mindless and unthinking. Some kind of weird virus has overtaken the good people of DU, something akin to Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The OP is hardly believable, but it is generous with its condemnation of people, a vague group out there, the ones who have their political philosophies, just as we do, but they differ from us, and so they are not worthy as human beings.

There's a terribly disturbing Groupthink feel to all of this. I'll attribute it to the late hour, and maybe some tired folks who didn't give that post a good read.

Stereotypes - and this was an announced stereotype, no less - are jokes, and I think this one is a big joke, designed to elicit the kind of kneejerk unthinking that followed that OP. There is absolutely nothing praiseworthy in that jumble of words.

"People united are what defines a country," it says. But diversity is what defines America. This OP would have everyone think as s/he does, or else they're unworthy even of a military defense, should that need arise.

Bullshit. This is a joke, and it's nasty. The people who are praising this should stop and think what they're applauding here, and perhaps reconsider if they are really that bigoted, that intolerant, that short-sighted, that gullible.

Good joke, puppyjive, right down to the screen name. You surely did jive the DUers here, and you took them for a silly ride in your Sillymobile. I hope the dawn of a new day gives everyone a second thought, a coherent one that doesn't automatically jump on a bandwagon that slimes Republicans with the most specious of generalities and banalities....................................

[Grinchie]

89. There is always a mixture of good and bad...

And thats what makes the whole stereotype thing tricky.

Perhaps the choice of words were a little strong in the OP, but you have to admit, the shit fits for a lot of republicans., and two is enough for me, since I have a brother, and so does my partner who are carbon images of the original posters portrayal of what is commonly identified as a Republican.

I just wish I could ask her questionas about familiy life and their upbringing, but alas, this is DU.

As far as the not fighting for people like that, well, everyone has a right to their own decisions, and it's not really up to us to judge them for it. Is it any different that me witholding 25 years of skill in my profession, by purposefully refusing to work for a wage because I don't support War, and find it is the only effective way to keep from funding the Military Industrial Complex? Thats my choice, and some would think it impossible to accomplish, but they are wrong.

I actually am a veteran myself. I have extremely valuable skills from my previous tours of duty, but there is no way in hell that I would every go back into service unless I have a combatant coming up my stairway. I know too much from my previous experience to be suckered in to Military Service ever again. It's not due to stupid people not deserving protection, but the fact that the Military really is not suitable for protection. It's main purpose is intimidation, agression and destruction, and most of all, serving Corporate interests. It is run exactly like a major Corporation, and they have even turned to outsourcing.

I remember in Basic Training many years ago, we were in a class of Military History, and the instructor was talking about the bombing of Dresden. He went out of his way to make sure that we fully understood that the Bombing of Dresden was "Strategic", and that it was soley to reduce the enemies will to fight..

The poor guy didn't realize that My mom was in Dresden 2 weeks prior to the carpet bombing of this civilian city while fleeing from the war as a refugee, which she described as the most beautiful city in the world. The military was so ashamaed of the bombing of Dresden, and 25,000 civilian deaths, that they had to ensure they had a good reason for the new recrutis.

Further in my Career, I asked a Seargent about out mortal enemy, the Russians.. You know, that axis of evil and all that? I said "What makes the Russians so different? How can they has such a different ideology, but if you placed a Russian and American in a lineup, you'd have a hard time telling identifying either of them". The guy just responded, they're raised that way.

Sadly, we are all made of the same stuff, using the same pattern taken from human DNA, yet we have these ludicrous events called Wars. I want no part of it. I will not pay for it. I refuse to enable it. I refuse to cheer the troops, other than wish them the best of luck in finding the real truth, and getting out safely.

Everyone has their Boundary conditions, and it needs to be respected.

[YOY]

118. +1

n/t

[bigscott]

83. you forgot

homophobes. they are usually the most rabid gay-bashing homophobes
and closet cases

Peace, and welcome to DU

[riverbendviewgal]

92. Your brother is so much like my brother

My Bubba brother is proud to be ignorant of anything other than the USA and even that he is only a flag waving war loving, immigrant hater and Obama bashing racist.
It is hard to believe we are of the same blood but the factor that made me different is my life is my love of reading. I am 75 percent deaf and didn't get a hearing aid for my left ear until I was in my mid twenties, after coming to Canada to live. Reading became my doorway to the world, past, present and future of different countries and peoples. Reading opened my mind.
One of my permanent memories is going up the steps of the public library for the first time when I was 8 years old.
My mother once told me I was weird because I would go to my room and read.

I find my fellow Canadians are more aware and informed of the world than many Americans are.

[druidity33]

104. aaahhhhh Libraries...

sometimes the only place for sanity in an insane world. And if i've said it once, i'll say it again... librarians are some of the gosh darned nicest, most helpful people on the planet. Intelligent, thoughtful and really, truly solid folk.

Choosing to be aware, in my day, involved frequent visits to the library. Course, nowadays the internets allow access to most reference and learning material from home. Nonetheless, i still visit the local and branch libraries frequently with my 8 year old, something we've been doing together since before she could stand.



I don't think i've ever met a Republican in a Library. Come to think of it, i can't say that i've EVER met a Republican that was being entirely honest, or one that has EVER admitted being wrong. I'm 38, so i haven't quite met thousands of them. But i have been politically active since my teens and was able to vote for Clinton in my first election experience 20 years ago.

What does that say?


:shrug:

[onlyadream]

94. It's so sad

that we are a country that is divided. Our families are split, and it affects us in major and minor ways. I have a hard time visiting with my repub parents & friends anymore. They are so ignorant and it's hard to take. The one thing in common is that they all watch Fox "News". That station is ripping our country apart. I understand that we all can have different views, but views should be based on fact NOT LIES (from Fox). Maybe our democratic congress should pass a law about the validity of news and what is allowed to be called news. They should have heavy fines for every lie that is told.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. Welcome!! Most of the wealthy voted for Obama this time around.

There are a great number of wealthy Americans who understand the importance of seeing to the general welfare of the society. If we have a sick workforce, productivity declines, and private industry cannot generate a profit. It's just that simply. Tell the Republicans that it is in their best interest that we have healthy workers so that they can produce.

[lysosome]

168. Produce? Screw that! I think they figured out that Americans need to actually buy!

If the rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer, who buys their fucking stuff?! :shrug:
Give the money to the bottom and the rich will find a way to get the money from them. It's how they (should have, anyway) got rich in the first place. I can't believe that the average American doesn't pull their head out and realize what countries who have just the very rich and very poor look like. They look like third world banana republics.

------------------------------after edit--------------------------------------
Ok, I am going to go off on that off topic rant now. Even Henry Ford, who hated unions and got a medal from the nazis, even he made sure he paid his workers enough to buy his product. Why? Who else was going to buy his cars?!? Give the American poor money and you will not find a better consumer of American goods! Take money from the poor and they have to buy cheaper goods from places like China!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

171. Good point. Just buy AMERICAN!!! n/t

[lysosome]

175. Buy american?! I remember that was what a lot of republicans used to say.

Before the party went bug fuck crazy.

[RoccoR5955]

96. Welcome Pilgrim

Welcome to the fold.
Most of us know this.
Thanks for your story.

[Vinca]

97. You make me thank my lucky stars for my liberal brother.

[The Wizard]

98. "The republicans are systematically unraveling our nation"

That's been their policy for years. Wedge issues like gay marriage that don't belong in the debate because it only effects the lives of the participants become the news and drive people apart. With Republican control of the media these kind of Machiavellian tactics will continue to succeed.
The government is only the problem when lying thieving Republicans are running it.
I'll take tax and spend over borrow and embezzle every time.

[NJmaverick]

99. The Republicans have all caught the right wing hysteria

very contagious you know

[raccoon]

102. Rec'd, and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[raccoon]

103. Is your brother on Medicare? nt

[fudge stripe cookays]

105. I feel for your brother's wife.

I also have MS. At my last job, we had private insurance, provided by the company, and I now feel no qualms about bashing it: QuadMed.

They pride themselves on their "wellness care", but when they first told me the co-pay for my injectable Betaseron, I thought I'd heard wrong! I was used to paying about $100, for either a 1 month's supply, or a 3 months' supply, depending on how good the insurance was.

When they told me that my co-pay would be $528 A MONTH, I about had a heart attack. At Quad, you HAVE to get on the patient assistance program to be able to pay for your drugs. I asked a diabetic there what he did, and he told me he did the same thing.

It's all well and good to want to keep people well, but what about the ones who are already sick and need to have drugs to be able to do their jobs?? You know...the ones you hired them to do?? I loved the job, but hated the insurance. I got laid off months ago, so have no problem telling the Quadraccis that their insurance sucks.

[Surya Gayatri]

107. Great post, Puppyjive...

I couldn't have said it as well myself. Your OP defines why I'm the only Democrat in my whole crazy family of right-wing conservatives (except for my 2 sisters-in-law, who are obviously not blood relatives).
Selfish, self-righteous and small-minded--that's your average Republican today. Any well-educated person possessed of a brain and a soul naturally leans left--where the heart is found in the human body.
SG

[L0oniX]

109. K & R

[mudstump]

112. Loss of Family and problem of the past thirty years....

I feel as if I have lost my family to Rush Limbaugh and FOX. I no longer know who my father and mother are.
We can't talk anymore. I just don't understand how the very people who instilled me with progressive values
now despise the very values I possess.

It's sad when members of my family who have been brainwashed now feel it is ok to call me typical
"hate" names....."feminazi" "Jane Fonda" "tree-huggin' liberal" etc...

Division of family is a tragic result of the conservative work to brainwash the masses over the past thirty
years or so.

[FormerDittoHead]

114. Welcome to DU! n/t

[valerief]

115. We are a commodity. We're labor. We're consumers. That's all we are. nt

[KansDem]

116. Very few things sadder than seeing a "Bush/Cheney" bumper sticker on a $300 clunker...

As for the wealthy, "Republicanism" is just a tool for doing business...

Excellent thread! :hi:

[Soylent Brice]

117. we ARE a commodity. it's the only logical outcome of a capitalistic society.

consumers are always going to wind up be the product themselves. they don't sell us products. they buy and sell us.

side note: thank you for your service to this country. you didn't do it for just the morans. you did it for me and my family too.

Welcome to DU.

K&R

[DrZeeLit]

120. Welcome to DU and thank you for that well-considered piece. Applause!!!

[Ho Tai]

121. Back in the USSR

I remember hearing a Russian man talking, years ago, about official propaganda in the Soviet Union before it crashed. He said, "You have propaganda in America, too. The difference is, we Russians know we're we're being lied to."

[rhett o rick]

123. republicans are either rich or gullible. There are rich Democrats but they side with the

rich republicans when it comes to the bottom line. republicans own radio stations and TV networks. Why dont any Democrats? There are Democrats that could do it. But when push comes to shove they back down. All talk no money.

[paparush]

124. I posted on my local newspaper's website yesterday -

If you don't support healthcare reform you are either:

1. Uber rich and heartless.

or

2. Believing the lies being told by the uber rich and heartless.

Think! Think for yourselves!

[Raster]

126. Spot on! Welcome to DU!

:applause:

[fascisthunter]

127. welcome to DU.... thank you for this post

[Uncle Joe]

130. Welcome to D.U. Puppyjive.

People are coming from different places in their lives and I guess depending on their life experiences, exposure to information, and the angle of their path, some take longer to see the mountaintop than others.

My brother was conservative as well, but he eventually flipped and saw the light as I just discovered at a recent family reunion,:wow: so keep hope alive!:)

[Stand and Fight]

131. As a veteran, I agree with you wholeheartedly and recommend your post. n/t

[butterfly77]

132. Kick &Recommended!!!

[kid a]

133. wow...you said it perfectly. K&R

[heliarc]

137. Lumpen Prols... nt

[JVS]

138. "They aren't the middle class anymore, they are the very poor or the very rich."

Since our middle class is dying off, this should worry us.

[dgibby]

139. Excellent post. Thank you!

Welcome to DU.:hi:

Like most repubs, your brother's cognitive dissonance is stupefying, isn't it?

I have several relatives and friends with the same "disease". I don't think there's any cure for it, unfortunately.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. Well said, I too am so sick of them. One other demographic I'd add:

they are the poverty stricken, the business owners, OR the theologically brainwashed. (I know many, even young adults, who fit the christofascist category rather than the first two.)

[ElboRuum]

141. Why did you never think you would say this?

I've been watching the "Republican Revolution" in action ever since 1980 when it got its first visible start. From the off, it has promoted little else except Social Darwinism and Friedmanian Economics. Three generations of children have been raised from near start to finish under the corollary social ethos that comes with a "fuck thy neighbor" mentality and a measure of worth equivalent to the size of one's bank account. GenX, GenY, and the Millenials have all shown the signs of premature cynicism, malaise, and depression about their future prospects, with only GenX having a knowledge of a different time and place with which to compare it (not that this even threw up a minor barrier against their social indoctrination). I watched as our once close communities became fractured into consumerist fiefdoms as this haggard mentality of "do unto and only for thyself" swept through the culture. It was a sea change of the worst socioeconomic import imaginable.

For the past 30 years, the people of this country have gone from a vibrant, self-motivated people with a practical idealism and a sense of belonging, to a living state almost comparable to feral survivalism, turning on their neighbors and breaking ties with their communities, turning instead toward the interminable acquisition of things to somehow fill the holes left by abandoning the human condition that surrounds them.

They have in word and in deed made the assertion that a socioeconomic disparity must exist, that people should stratify on basis of perceived worth, that each individual should compare their own worth to those around them and strive to be richer and have more things... because that is the measure that those who wanted all of this to happen in the first place would have placed them on top of the social order and power structure from the very start. If they'd championed character, or altruism, or community activism as the measure, it would have seen them as the very dregs of humanity. And the only reason for any of it is to put their ideals in a position of common acceptance to increase the degree of that disparity and further secure their power over what this country does and who does it.

I've been saying this forever... why wouldn't you think you'd say this? It's not like the Republicans are doing much to try to hide it.

[knixphan]

142. kinda sums it up (sadly)

'He asked me why educated people are always liberals?'

And then they never make the next logical leap...'Maybe they know something'

Victory of the Amygdala over the neocortex?

[CTyankee]

152. I have a friend who regrets never going to college. Her family is pretty RW.

But she is a voracious reader. I have noticed that she has become more liberal, even to the point last fall proclaiming herself an "Obama mama!"

My guess is that she really likes the people she meets who enjoy books as much as she does. And they are all liberals. So she has begun to see liberals in a new light...

[Yavin4]

148. I Think That Their Numbers Are Dwindling

They appear much larger than they are because the media builds them up. The amount of people that listen to AM hate radio or watch Faux News is relatively very small. There are more people in Brooklyn than watch Fox news.

Do not despair. Most Americans are good people. Your brother may not be one of them.

[theFrankFactor]

153. Kick and Rec

[wicket]

154. I'm sorry about your brother's wife

:(

Welcome to DU

[DutchLiberal]

155. And you think the Democratic leadership isn't doing the same?

[Mosaic]

156. Totally Understandable

The simple truth is these people have degenerated so much that they are not worth defending anymore.

[Zambero]

157. Keeping 'em Dumb = Preventing Liberals

So this poor fool wondered why educated people are always liberals?

Well, that question alone would also address the larger question as to why conservatives are not supportive of quality education for all citizens. More education means a more liberal populace, better able to see through the simplistic sheep-talk spewed out daily by the right-wing talking heads. Conservatives do not target citizens who are capable of thinking for themselves. A properly dumbed-down population is still their best prospect for getting the propaganda message through.

[DeeDeeNY]

159. There appears to be one unifying theme among Republicans I have spoken to

Their overriding worry is that others will somehow get something for nothing and it's most important to restrict this. They are too close-minded to realize that when everyone is healthier and doing better financially, we all benefit. They have no problem with giving tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires, even though this means their own financial burden will be greater. Their lack of compassion is striking, but they are unable to think rationally.
This piece remains very relevant --
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=144

[Duke Newcombe]

176. Spot. Freekin. ON. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

169. At heart, they are self-loathing people

If they are rich, the philosophy is "I've got mine, fuck everyone else".

If they are poor, they still believe in their heart of hearts they will "get there" someday and don't want to end up being "punished" by reforms when they finally make it. Until then, they see themselves as not worthy of being given anything. They have bought into the notion that if you don't have the money for health care, you need to work harder, or just aren't deserving of it.

[nightgaunt]

178. The very rich want a new country made out of the old one

With just rich and poor with a definite hierarchy more in line with Plato of workers and soldiers and the poor at the very bottom. Only they would have the rights of "Man" guarded by their soldiers and laws to keep the rest of us in line. A place where their racialist and classist ideas are given full reign in their version of a God based society. They liked the "Guilded Age." They are Regressives because they not only want things to stop as Wm. Buckley said in 1950. They want to regress back to a time where the rich and moneyed and powerful ruled by divine right of kings! And had power over the rest of us. A landed aristocracy with plenary powers over the rest of us. Like an insect colony everyone has their place in society and they think God gave them the insight to place you in it. As a worker or artisan or soldier you would go. A harsh Calvinist idea that everyone is fated to be where they are born into. A self serving and self referencing tautology. Oh and don't forget that the poor and the middle class types think they too can be with the elites of God, the elect by divine right/rite but never quite get there. As is the way they want it. More stick than carrot. There ideal society of Social Darwinism (sociobiology) run by those who despise the idea of <b>Darwin</b> and evolution but embrace a kind of eugenics by class attrition.

I am sorry for you Puppyjive but then I am in that same boat too. They are so conditioned, it fits their religious views of a Puritan Work Ethic to the point of disdain for those who just can't make it by their standards. Literally if you can't make it it is the skid row and then the cemetery. But then the body is less important than the soul to them so they would say you and I would be better off dead. Better for them it seems. The Inquisition and Crusades are positive things for them. They aren't national socialists but they have much in common with them. Too much including the glorification of the military and the holy cleansing of violence as a sacramental act.You may have noticed that logic, proof, scientific ideas just wash off them like water off a duck's back. You can't reason with them but we should still try. That and make sure they can never get into political office. If we still have time. We are losing the remnants of our republic right now. Not much time left.

[DeepBlueC]

179. did you explain to him who is paying her bill?