Does anyone else feel like maybe we've been had? We've been conned? We've been sold a bill of goods

[grahamhgreen]

by slick PR merchants in the forms of Senator Baucus, President Obama & company?

Or is it just me?

I have this increasing sinking feeling that these guys are just shills for the corporate military media industrial complex.

No real health care reform.

No to prosecuting war crimes of Bushco.

No to ending war in Iraqistan.

No to restoring Habeus Corpus.

No to prosecuting the corrupt bankers - giving them 9 trillion instead!

No to reforming election fraud machines.

No to a real 9-11 investigation.

No to repealing the patriot act.

No to closing Gitmo (just move it to Bagram).

No to ending poverty.

No to returning jobs to USA bu ending NAFTA, GATT, etc..

All we have is the progressive caucus and a few others, it seems.

Is it just me?

And hey - this guy owes me money!

I gave Obama hundreds of dollars I can't really afford to waste!

Anyone care to pay me back?

[Tansy_Gold]

1. Since 25 November 2008, honey

The day he announced Geithner would be Treasury Secretary.

[saracat]

26. Agreed. I felt nothing good about Rahm as well. Hiya Tansy!

[Lorien]

34. The choice of Rahm gave many of us a sinking feeling. nt

[G_j]

130. and they said Rahm would be "tough" with the Republicans

I guess he's saved it for the liberals instead

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. +1

:thumbsup:

[Blue_In_AK]

2. Those thoughts cross my mind

now and then. It's hard not to feel powerless. I am glad that I remained skeptical throughout the campaign, though. If you don't set your expectations too high, you can't be too disappointed.

[FormerDittoHead]

91. Had many of those things cross my mind the other day too, and how MUCH BUSH WAS *ABLE* TO DO...

THEY had a razor slim majority, and they rammed, Rammed, RAMMED *EVERYTHING* DOWN OUR THROATS, NO PROBLEMS.

THEY showed us how it CAN *WORK*.

It's almost like our side DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THESE THINGS.... (gulp!)

[Libertas1776]

3. No!...What?!...What are

you talking about?! NO, I can't hear you...La la la la la la....I can't hear you! Everything is PERFECT...Hope, Change, and all that malarkey! It's real I tells ya! Real! :sarcasm:

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. .

:spray: :thumbsup:

[MissDeeds]

49. +1

:applause:

[Bicoastal]

4. Delete

Delete

[abumbyanyothername]

5. Jesus

Outside of civil rights, Obama is not even as liberal as Nixon. Who, after all, finally did end the fucking war.

[Bicoastal]

6. Delete

Delete

[ingac70]

7. Nixon only ended that...

because Congress finally had the balls to cut of the $$$.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

Actually,

it was during Ford's tenure that Vietnam ended.....................................

[abumbyanyothername]

16. Oh, you're right and I stand corrected.

And it was actually by Ford's decision that Nixon's secret agreement to resume bombing was broken.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. I always thought it was wonderfully ironic

that our Bicentennial was presided over by a President who hadn't been elected......................................

[grahamhgreen]

29. Very interesting perception!

[NoPasaran]

51. Official US involvement ended with the Paris Peace Accords in January, 1973

The remaining US troops were withdrawn from South Vietnam and US POWs came home. The war between North and South soon resumed until the collapse of the RVN in 1975.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

83. Yes, you're right -

but I was remembering the end of the Vietnam conflict, which was later.

Nixon gets that credit, yes, but he was still itching to keep it going secretly, the wily SOB.................................

[NoPasaran]

88. I always assumed that Nixon had privately assured Thieu

That if South Vietnam was ever on the verge of collapse that there would have been a renewed American commitment, of air support if nothing else. Of course, Watergate removed that card from the deck.

[espiral]

8. You forgot "No to lifting the blockade against Cuba.

[skipos]

9. We are DOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOMED! nt

[grahamhgreen]

14. We not doomed - WE'RE GOING TO KICK THEIR F*CKING ASSES TO THE CURB!

[dionysus]

48. the kucinich juggernaut will rise to the call.

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

74. I just knew there was a giggle in this thread somewhere. It came sooner than expected.

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[grahamhgreen]

114. He who laughs last, laughs best.

[OHdem10]

10. Could it be that the Pro-Business Democrats in the WH

have co-opted the President. In every Administration
there is always the push and pull from groups around
the President. At times it appears the Wall Street
Crowd won out. In fact, on CRose, I have heard Reporters
(usually NYT) have made statements to this effect.
a lot of similarities to Clinton. Do not scream. I like
Clinton, think he was a good President, but disagreed
strenuously on certain policies. Likewise, I am waiting
to make a judgment. Get more Clinton vibes than I had
anticipated.

[grahamhgreen]

20. Could be. In any case what needs to happen for the country to grow in a healthy

Manner does not seem to be occuring.

The path we are currently on will end in our collapse, IMHO.

[me b zola]

45. You could be right! just look at who Obama chose for the Supreme Court!

Sotomayor Issues Challenge to a Century of Corporate Law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4065407

[QC]

54. Perhaps the president is one of the pro-business Democrats in the White House. n/t

[ProudDad]

59. HARVARD LAW...

Remember...

Law Review...

This is where the protectors of the realm learn their craft...

I'm not surprised...this man was bred by Harvard to do exactly as he's doing...

Protecting the status-quo -- the steel fist in the velvet glove...

[Duer 157099]

11. Yes. Sigh.

But apparently *we're* the ones with the problem, for noticing.

[excess_3]

12. SAME

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. He doesn't owe you money. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

15. Hey - it's only a few hundred bucks....!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. Get over yourself. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

21. Ha! Really, it was my wry wit, was all.

[dajoki]

65. I'm with you...

I feel as though I've been had. But to many Obama and the Dems in Congress can do no wrong.

[iceman66]

18. Perhaps the REAL con

was the financial crisis engineered by the previous administration when it became clear that Obama would win the election.

The 'bailout' measures that began under GWB, and were essentially forced down Obama's throat right after he took office, have increased the deficit to the point where it is very difficult for him to accomplish his goals.

For instance, any health care reform has to be 'deficit neutral' and that means, at best, a limited public option and no possibility of single-payer.

[grahamhgreen]

22. But why doesn't the war in Iraqistan or any of the right wing programs need to meet the same

Criteria?

Or the financial bailout?

It's not adding up for me.

[Indenturedebtor]

24. Because the corporations rule this country

Fix the media and campaign finance or let them steal your ball and just run on home and watch T.V.

[iceman66]

36. It's very simple really

A president does not have absolute power, and some things are beyond the ability of Obama to change, at least in the short amount of time he has been in office.

The bailout was going to happen one way or another because the banksters had made such a mess of the economy. Remember, the blow up happened under Bush's watch and Obama was just left to pick up the pieces.

Similarly, Bush made such a mess of Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama can't simply pull out without creating an even bigger mess.

It will take Obama two terms just to undo most of the damage from Bush's second term alone.

[ProudDad]

60. You're looking at the wrong end of the telescope

he was (s)elected BECAUSE he's a corporate capitalist true believer (whore)...

pResidents don't get $600,000,000 to run a campaign and incredibly positive media coverage if they won't uphold the corporate capitalist status-quo...

which includes the USAmerikan Empire's permanent war "economy"...

[grahamhgreen]

61. Obama is Commander-in-Cheif, he simply can, and should, pull out. At least, that is what most

Americans are telling him.

57% according to the last poll.

How many more Americans should die for the Islamic republic Bush set up in Afghanistan?

[rucky]

38. Yep!

[Rex]

19. Been feeling that way since the Repuklicans gave Bill Clinton

a snowjob.

[saracat]

25. Not really because I haven't really expected anything. I had "hopes"

but so far things aren't looking great. At least we don't have McCain!

[Echo In Light]

32. That pretty much sums up my position, too

But I voted Nader since O had my state wrapped up.

[NV Whino]

27. We've been ha since the 2004 Keynote speech

Only no one noticed.

[cali]

28. what nonsense.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CocoaBeachCoco]

43. People who hope for progressive change are freepers? How so?

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. +1

:evilgrin:

[Greyhound]

98. There were a few of us here that noticed. The person that convinced me to hang out here

was on to the scam. Obama gave the keynote, had a meeting with the Democratic Trinity the next day, and emerged a new man with a far deeper understanding of the intricacies of corporate rule. But we have been shouting in a hurricane and pointing out unpleasant truths for so long that it no longer matters.

"We did tell you so".

[Hannah Bell]

108. just a coincidence, i'm sure.

a coincidence with precedents, though.

[omega minimo]

128. Some of us did.

[Lorien]

30. I'll answer that once health care reform comes to a vote

the GOP passed their "contract on America" with only 51 votes. If the Dems-with 59 votes- can't pass a decent health care bill that includes a strong public option then yes, I'll say that we've been had. I'll look to a third party at that point, since insanity is the act of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[TxRider]

33. And we will continue to be had as long as we

Keep electing lifetime politicians to lifetime posts in Congress instead of normal citizens.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Obama ran as a Centrist. He is governing as a Centrist. The status quo remains.

The wars go on. The rich/poor divide continues to grow. The capitalists still rob the system. Health reform still remains a dream. etc, etc.

The system is still corrupt.

[ecstatic]

37. I don't feel conned. Nothing going on right now should be a surprise to any of us

as it was all laid out in the campaign. And the bill has not passed yet. Let's wait and see what the bill is before complaining.

[CocoaBeachCoco]

41. "Let's wait before complaining" - How about complaining BEFORE it's passed?

To actually hope for a change!

And how about the other 2 dozen items the OP talks about?

[ecstatic]

46. We have different priorities and I have nothing to complain about

to be honest. The reforms that the President has clearly laid out are what's most important to me:

1) No pre-existing condition discrimination
2) Lowering costs

I would LOVE a public option as well but the first two points are what's important to me, and from my understanding, will be a part of the bill no matter what.

[grahamhgreen]

62. So rescission is OK? 45,000 deaths per year is ok? No universal coverage is OK?

[ProudDad]

63. What bill?

There are at least 5 of them being "considered" (on the table)...

None of them give us Universal Comprehensive Coverage, they're all give-aways to the insurance mafia and Big PhRMA and they haven't even finished the corporate dominated watering down process that still has to occur...

We're already fucked!

[Xithras]

44. He didn't lie. You didn't listen.

Plenty of us were SCREAMING to send a real liberal candidate to the White House, instead of a guy who self-identified as "centrist moderate" on many occasions.

If you wanted the things you listed, I must ask you a question. What did you do to support Kucinich, the ONLY Democrat who actually supported the things you're asking for?

[grahamhgreen]

64. I did support Kucinich! Still do!

[dionysus]

47. teh stoopid, it burns... this thread drew all the bitter sore losers out of the woodwork...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. I wonder who's "teh stoopid" around here

It couldn't be the uncritical fans who are content with actions that they would be screaming their heads off about if Bush had done them :sarcasm:

[dionysus]

52. it's the people running around with their hair on fire that can't wait until a final bill

makes it through committee before crapping their pants and renouncing their vote.

[grahamhgreen]

67. It's simply an intelligent discussion of whether or not we are being conned.

[dana_b]

78. and it's not just about healthcare

but some are "teh stoopid" to realize that.

[dionysus]

80. i see basically a group of hyperbolic kucinich fans pissed that every problem

since the reagan era hasn't been fixed in 6 months. and you're setting yourself up to be dissappointed, because whatever obama does, it won't be as good as what you percieve dennis would do.

[dana_b]

81. and I see that bunch of Obama fans

can't see what is plainly before their faces due to their love of the man himself.

Look, we're not going to agree on this and you're not going to change my mind and vice versa. The only one who could change my mind would be Obama himself.

[grahamhgreen]

116. There are real moral and ethical problems that are not being adressed at a foundational level.

The right side of our party needs to understand that.

[HamdenRice]

53. "or is it just me?" YES IT'S JUST YOU and complainophiles, Trotskyites, PUMAs, etc.-- Your list-->

No real health care reform.

Health care reform is very real. If you've ever had your coverage dropped or been unable to get insurance because of a previously existing condition, this is very real. Sorry you have no sympathy for us.

No to prosecuting war crimes of Bushco.

Holder has empowered an investigation of Bush era crimes.

No to ending war in Iraqistan.

The war is winding down. Just yesterday, all Iraqi prisoners at the largest prison were turned over to Iraq or freed. The soldiers are not patrolling. The war is winding down as promised.

No to restoring Habeus Corpus.

Wrong. It has been restored. You haven't been paying attention.

No to prosecuting the corrupt bankers - giving them 9 trillion instead!

Wrong again. Just this week, an appeals court over turned a lower court settlement between the SEC and banks over bonuses. Maybe you should read a paper before making stupid false claims. More investigations are in the pipeline.

No to reforming election fraud machines.

That's a state issue, but state by state, electronic voting machines are being done away with.

No to a real 9-11 investigation.

NYC has a ballot referendum for a new investigation. It will probably win.

No to repealing the patriot act.

Parts of it will be repealed.

No to closing Gitmo (just move it to Bagram).

Uh, no. Gitmo is being closed. Obviously you can't admit it.

No to ending poverty.

That is a long term effort. The Democrats can't wave a magic wand and make poverty go away during a recession.


No to returning jobs to USA bu ending NAFTA, GATT, etc..

Again, you're not paying attention. The US just imposed tariffs on Chinese tires.

[ProudDad]

71. Is it just me or are you apologists for the center-right Obama really reaching?

No real health care reform.

Health care reform is very real. If you've ever had your coverage dropped or been unable to get insurance because of a previously existing condition, this is very real. Sorry you have no sympathy for us.

and what makes you think they won't either strip that out or insert dozens of loopholes? You're dangerously naive if you think the corporate-funded Congress will give us health CARE reform

No to prosecuting war crimes of Bushco.

Holder has empowered an investigation of Bush era crimes.

No he hasn't. He's appointed a person who is seriously proscribed as to what he can look at and following the thread into the Oval Office is NOT on the list!

No to ending war in Iraqistan.

The war is winding down. Just yesterday, all Iraqi prisoners at the largest prison were turned over to Iraq or freed. The soldiers are not patrolling. The war is winding down as promised.

He's just moving his dirty little war to Afghanistan...oh, and leaving a garrison of over 100,000 troops and CONTRACTORS in the Middle East (to protect Obama's Oil)

No to restoring Habeus Corpus.

Wrong. It has been restored. You haven't been paying attention.

You haven't been paying attention -- the laws taking away our rights are STILL ON THE BOOKS! Saying something is so doesn't make it so.

No to prosecuting the corrupt bankers - giving them 9 trillion instead!

Wrong again. Just this week, an appeals court over turned a lower court settlement between the SEC and banks over bonuses. Maybe you should read a paper before making stupid false claims. More investigations are in the pipeline.

Oooooh... .0001% fines. Boy, howdy, that'll stop 'em!

Obama has nothing to do with court decisions. He hasn't demanded regulation -- as usual, he just hints...

No to reforming election fraud machines.

That's a state issue, but state by state, electronic voting machines are being done away with.

Uh, no they aren't. But even if they were a corrupt, money skewed "electoral" system still perpetuates the non-democracy that pertains here in the USAmerikan Empire.

No to a real 9-11 investigation.

NYC has a ballot referendum for a new investigation. It will probably win.

Binding on whom? And how will NYC subpoena federal records, etc.?

No to repealing the patriot act.

Parts of it will be repealed.

Still waiting...<crickets>

No to closing Gitmo (just move it to Bagram).

Uh, no. Gitmo is being closed. Obviously you can't admit it.

It hasn't closed yet. And the mechanisms to create it are still on the books.

And as the previous poster said they've already begun moving this obscenity to other prisons in other places -- like Bagram and dozens of others.

No to ending poverty.

That is a long term effort. The Democrats can't wave a magic wand and make poverty go away during a recession.

Ah, but giving trillions to the richest of the rich will end poverty. Can't wait!


No to returning jobs to USA bu ending NAFTA, GATT, etc..

Again, you're not paying attention. The US just imposed tariffs on Chinese tires.

Another corporate payoff means USAmerica isn't a corporate fascist state any more. GOD, how naive are you???

[dionysus]

73. if you think we live in a fascist state you're out of your mind.

[ProudDad]

82. Check it yourself. Don't take my word for it...

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[dionysus]

84. you do a disservice to those who lived and died under actual fascist states.

[ProudDad]

104. And which part of that list doesn't fit the USAmerikan Empire?

Or do you plan to live in a fact-free zone...

[dionysus]

120. i live in a hyperbole zone. i'll take one example off the top of my head.

one part of your list is the anti-intellectualism part.

that means like that time in china they rolled into villages and killed or beat the shit out of everyone wearing glasses, because it was assumed they could read. or when the nazis had book bonfire parties, and sent the intellectuals to fucking death camps.

and you're what, equating that with the way redneck right wing republicans stereotype liberals?

get back to me when they start burning the books and art here.

[grahamhgreen]

123. OK, we'll skip past what was done to the Indians and the slaves, but there is a lot of blood on our

hands from Iraqistan that comports well with what has been done by fascist states.

[dionysus]

125. yes, that is true. our government has done some shit. especially during gop administrations.

but you realistically cannot expect a guy to be handed two simultaneous wars and simply quickly pull stakes and leave. it's a cliched statement, but it really isn't that simple.

the afghanistan deal, should have been taken care of at the time, there was a reason to go there. however, that's one big area where i don't agree with obama. the time for action there slipped away.

but that said, you have posters on this thread saying they lost his support, before he was sworn in, just because he picked a douchebag chief of staff. i mean come on here.

[grahamhgreen]

126. Yeah, I'm just trying to guage where I stand. it's a shame I feel like I have to fight to get my

own party to vote for things that seem like no brainers, but that's where we are at, I guess!

There is a real danger of the collapse of human civilization without a real change in how the world is being run, IMHO.

The time for war profiteering, disparity of wealth, overpopulation and environmental decay has long since past.

[dionysus]

138. spot on my friend.

:thumbsup:

[grahamhgreen]

140. Deleted repeat

[grahamhgreen]

122. THE PRESIDENT CAN ROUND UP ANYONE, render them, IMPRISON AND TORTURE THEM, FOREVER WITHOUT

EVER TELLING ANYONE IT HAS OCCURRED, SIMPLY BY CLAIMING THEY ARE AN UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT, UNDER THE MILITARY COMMISSIONS ACT - IS THAT NOT FASCIST ENOUGH FOR YOU?

Furthermore, Obama has upheld he has the right to render.


From HRW:

FAQs: The Military Commisions Act

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 (MCA) is a massive legislative assault on fundamental rights, including the right to habeas corpus – the right to challenge one’s detention in a court of law. Signed into law on October 17, 2006, the MCA contains sweeping provisions that serve to shelter the Bush Administration from the legal consequences of their actions, while stripping away the fundamental rights of those held in U.S. custody.

While the Supreme Court's decision in June 2008 in Boumediene v. Bush overturned as unconstitutional the provision of the MCA that attempted to suspend the right of habeas corpus - the right to challenge one's detention in a court of law before a real judge in a fair hearing - many of the MCA's most troubling provisions remain intact.

Why the MCA?

In large part, the Military Commissions Act was the response of the Bush Administration to a major Supreme Court decision of 2006 – Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. In Hamdan, the Supreme Court rejected the President’s creation of military commissions by executive order, upheld the right of detainees held by the U.S. in Guantánamo Bay to challenge their detention in the U.S. federal courts, and held that the protections of the Geneva Conventions applied to the war in Afghanistan. In response, the Bush Administration, with Congress, passed the Military Commissions Act into law, attempting to strip those detainees entirely of their right to challenge their detention in court while shielding the Administration from accountability for their actions.

What does the MCA do?

Creates a broad definition of “unlawful enemy combatant.” The MCA’s definition of “unlawful enemy combatant” – a term which, prior to the MCA, had no meaning in U.S. or international law – applies to both citizens and non-citizens, and is broad, with the potential for constant expansion. It leaves in the hands of the President or Defense Secretary a nearly unrestricted authority to declare people “unlawful enemy combatants.”

Grants U.S. officials immunity for their illegal actions. The MCA attempts to grant immunity upon officials who engaged in and authorized the abuse of detainees at Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib, Bagram, and other US detention facilities, granting immunity from prosecution under the War Crimes Act for actions committed after November 1997 and attempts to prohibit civil suits relating to any aspect of detention, treatment or conditions of confinement for non-citizens detained by the US as “enemy combatants” or “awaiting such determination” – even those who were later freed, as nearly half of the men and boys held at Guantanamo Bay have been.

Protects the U.S. government and U.S. officials from accountability for their actions against detainees. The Military Commissions Act attempts to block any legal actions by current or former detainees for damages for abuses suffered during their detention, despite the fact that such actions are often a critical brake upon illegal activities by government officials. The law blocks the application of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, civil rights laws, or the Alien Tort Statute, by current or former detainees after September 11, 2001 who were determined to be "enemy combatants" or while "pending such determination" - no matter what the final status of those detainees.

Furthermore, the Military Commissions Act narrows the definition of torture to allow U.S. officials to legally engage in practices that amount to torture, allows the use of statements obtained through coercion in prosecution, authorizes military trials that provide little protection for the accused and permit secret evidence, narrows the definition of “sexual assault” to allow for sexualized abuses in interrogation and detention, and attempts to limit the use of international law in U.S. courts.

What can we do?

The MCA is a frightening and dangerous law that attempts to suspend the right of habeas corpus while protecting U.S. officials engaged in war crimes and torture. It is imperative that citizens and residents of the U.S. act to ensure that its odious provisions are repealed and overturned.

The Center for Constitutional Rights is engaged in legal challenges to the Military Commissions Act. The Supreme Court ruling in Boumediene v. Bush was an important defeat for the provision of the MCA that attempted to strip the right of habeas corpus. In addition, CCR filed a case in November 2006, seeking damages on behalf of 2 released detainees who suffered physical, psychological and sexual abuse at the hands of their U.S. captors. Our court challenges are significant and important. However, it is equally critical – and perhaps more so – that many people join in opposing the MCA and calling for its repeal.

[grahamhgreen]

119. Thanks for going point by point, but i think the poster is just spewing PR points

I don't believe he could seriously think any of what he said was accurate.

[Fire1]

111. Thank you Hamden but many are purposely and willfully

ignorant or they can't read. In both cases, it's just dumb.

[grahamhgreen]

113. We are the rabble, be careful you do not rouse us!

All of your claims are misleading or misdirections.

We are not the Faux news audience.

[pitohui]

55. no, i feel like maybe some people are big babies w. unrealistic demands

you expected obama to clean up almost 30 years of reagan/bush in a couple hundred days?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. I expect him to try and NOT CONTINUE Bush policies

What "effort" would it require to give up signing statements?

[pitohui]

100. why should he give up signing statements?

that's an odd one to pick...so your issue w. obama is that he expects to exercise the same power as president as the white dude did?

as democrats we need to stop being afraid of power, we're in a world of hurt here, and we need to use all our weapons

i don't think anyone could have predicted that we'd be seeing signs of economy recovery so soon, considering the size of the disaster that bush left us

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. I was just using that as an example of a Bush abuse that would be easy to stop

Do you even know what a signing statement is? It's a cop-out.

If a president doesn't like a bill, he's supposed to veto it and the Congress is supposed to try to override the veto.

In a signing statement, a president signs a bill and then declares that he's not going to allow it to be implemented. This prevents Congress from overriding his blockage of the measure.

It's a power grab, which is why we objected to it when Bush did it.

[DerekG]

57. Kinda ironic how we mocked the hicks for voting Bush/Cheney

How could all 'dem dumb southerners vote against their economic interests?

Well guess what? We the educated and clever--we the beautiful, enlightened liberals--voted for a con artist who had very few progressive credentials.

And you know what's the saddest thing? Many will vote for him again in '12.

[ShortnFiery]

68. Yes, we're all together in one right wing duopoly.

We get to vote and fight each other over wedge issues. However, everything is done for the benefit of our blessed LARGE multi-national corporations. :(

[DerekG]

72. Buh...buh...buh, he's pro-choice!

Good thing too. Once the fallout from the corporate bailouts hits, how many folks are gonna want to bring children into the world?

[ProudDad]

105. Not so much that he would fight for it in HR3200 (n/t)

[jesus_of_suburbia]

79. Also those who bashed Hillary for being too moderate are now taking up for Obama when he is moderate

Let's not forget that.


And they weren't just saying he was a little bit better, they were saying he was CHANGE AND HOPE over Hillary.

Not just a little better.

[dionysus]

85. that's revisionist history. they ran on very very similar platforms.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

89. Not according to many on DU at the time.

edit- I'm talking about the primaries (obviously not the GE).

I think people who wouldn't support Obama in the GE are pieces of sh*t.

[ProudDad]

58. I knew it would happen...

January, 2009: Same old shit, different container.

[SIMPLYB1980]

66. Fail post.

[treestar]

69. No

Obama was supposed to end poverty by now?

Please, don't give the freeprs ammunition for calling him the "Messiah."

[dionysus]

76. you forgot, he was supposed to imprison the entire bush administration too.

[grahamhgreen]

141. Only those who broke the law

[grahamhgreen]

142. It's easy. Just start a monthly dole system like they have in the enlightened countries

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. President Obama never promised to repeal the Patriot Act

If you thought that he did, you were conned by yourself.

[dionysus]

75. he's not dennis kucinich, so therefore he is a failure, apparently.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

109. True, but as a Constitutional lawyer, he should have

:shrug:

He didn't promise not to start a nuclear war, either, so would you be OK if he did?

Where is your limit?

[tritsofme]

77. unrec

Thanks.

[Generator]

86. What kind of constitutional law professor proposes

infinite detention? What kind of progressive is that? Oh yes, Barrack Obama. Ever since that little sicking idea-there is nothing he can do that will surprise me.

And once again Howard Dean is out there acting like a real Democrat instead of whatever Obama is. (there's petition in gd/p and a letter to the president-why does Howard Dean have to tell the president what a real Democrat acts like?) You know-real health care reform-not the bullshit that has happened this week.

Just read Glenn Greenwald's blog, even closing Guantanamo is a sham, because the new plan (oh no kiddies Obama's not directly telling you-you are his peons that he works to believe in him) and moving the prisoners to another place-Afghanistan. Another place for no habeas corpus. He's not Bush-he's much smarter than Bush he has you believing he actually did something different while doing the exact same thing with a new name. Genius!

[Greyhound]

97. "Land of the blind" and all that. n/t

[RobinA]

87. No

I was listening during the campaign. To what he was saying, not to the Repubs accusing him of being a socialist. Obama was always Blue Dog at best. People who think otherwise were thinking wishfully. That said, I did vote for him in the general. Ya takes what you can get.

[omega minimo]

90. It was obvious when corporate media edged John Edwards out of the frame and gave us two choices

[dionysus]

92. .

:rofl:
"ahm here at this hedge fund studying pahvetty for mah campane"

[redqueen]

93. Aw, don't say that...

if that's the case, that corporate media edged him out... then I have to be thankful to them for something, and I really don't want to do that.

[omega minimo]

95. Don't care who the third candidate was, why accept the bastards blatantly manipulating the election?

:evilfrown:

[dionysus]

115. edwards dropped out because no one was voting for him and he knew the affair was coming out.

to think otherwise is engaging in high tinfoilery.

[omega minimo]

143. Edwards was squeezed out of the media lens before he dropped out

Not everyone thinks like you, fortunately.

[QC]

102. +1

[whistler162]

94. No because I don't listen to the anti-Obama

"democrats"!

[BlooInBloo]

96. Yah - I was stupid enough to believe that a lot of DUers were actually on our side....

A mistake I'll never make again.

[dionysus]

117. cheer up comrade, they'll make a commisar out of you yet!!

:rofl:

[Vidar]

99. It's not just you.

[Hansel]

101. No, not really.

The country was in pretty bad shape when he took over and he's got a lot on his plate. And if you haven't noticed, he's in a pretty difficult political climate.

But I could add to your list. He also hasn't cured all disease, ended hunger, eliminated all crime, and created world peace. Slacker. And worst of all, he hasn't done exactly what I think he should do either.

[ProudDad]

106. Kick (n/t)

[earth mom]

107. Good job connecting all the dots. Too bad so many DUers are in such huge denial.

There is NO hope of any kind of change or justice from the powers that be. :argh:

[crazyjoe]

110. yes

[MasonJar]

112. obviously a lot of non-recs since there are so many comments and

no recs. I tried to rec and the recs stayed zero. Interesting! Rahm and Geithner both were sufficient clues for me. But the actions need no clues, do they?

[begin_within]

118. I do feel like a lot of the "Change" I expected hasn't happened

[Liberal In Texas]

121. If you thought the fight was over just because we won the election

you were deluding yourself. Many of us were saying that if we won, this was just the start. Especially since President Obama - yes PRESIDENT OBAMA - is a black man that we'd have an even harder fight ahead. We would have to have his back.

The same virve and effort you put out during the election can't stop. Now it's time to dig in and go to local Dem precinct meetings and work from the inside to make our voices heard. You might even end up as a precinct chair. The repukes have been doing this for about 20 years, and that's why we're behind the 8-ball now. They've managed to take over the media, the school boards, and the county party management.

The change isn't going to happen overnight and it's not going to happen until you stop phone banking on election eve and start getting involved at the real basic local level.

Oh, and by the by on edit. Two words: Supreme Court.

[grahamhgreen]

124. Too right! Let's keep fighting! Conned but not gone.

[omega minimo]

129. No one thought we'd have to "fight" the Democrats!

:evilfrown:

They DIDN'T impeach Bush/CheneyCo, gambled and got their White House and majority and NOW WHAT?

[Segami]

136. The old two-tier system of justice. One for them and another for the rest of us fools who allow them

to continue this charade.

[Segami]

127. Lets see now, close to 2800 views, 127 responses and ONLY 2 RECOMMENDS for this thread?

Whats with that? :shrug:





:kick:

[G_j]

131. un-recs

:shrug:

[Segami]

133. Why the un-recs? What are they trying to prevent by un-recommending, that some people agree with

the statements?

[Quantess]

132. YES! I agree with the OP.

(it's because of all the Unrecommends). But, who cares! Sometimes the bitter truth is unpopular.

[Xicano]

134. Unfortunately I agree with you.

+1

[Quantess]

135. We've been had, by Republican-Lite.

Obama is infinitely better than G.W. Bush was, or that McCain would have been. But, really, it's just more of the same. No "CHANGE" at all.

[omega minimo]

137. For 30 years they've shifted Right.

Nader haters love to blame him for everything. In 2000, after only 20 years of this shit, Nader railed against government "Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, For the Corporations."

Where are we now? :thumbsdown:

[grahamhgreen]

139. +4 RECS. What this may mean. That core party support is evenly split on whether we have been

conned by Obama, Baucus, & Company.

CONNED: defrauded, bamboozled, bilked, burned, deceived, duped, gypped, hoodwinked, overcharged, ripped off, scammed, swindled, taken in, tricked, victimized

This does not bode well for the elections next year. It is serious.

It is critical that Obama deliver on some progressive issues, NOW.

May I suggest:

1) Start a real investigation into crimes, including war crimes, by the Bush administration executives.

2) Dump the pay-or-punish crapsurance bills and get on the bully pulpit for Single Payer HR676, which will soon be coming up for a vote. (He needn't win to consolidate the party, and 'winning' with a bill that punishes the people and pays the insurance companies is FAIL.)

Or any and all of the topics in the OP.

[LWolf]

144. Yes.

But not by Obama Inc..

I knew what was being forced down my throat when he won the nomination.

I've been had by the voters and caucusers in the 4 states that narrowed the pack, and by the rest of the voters that "got behind" Obama when that happened.

I've been had by the party who ensured that the choice was narrowed down to two corporate centrists before the majority got to weigh in.

I've been had by a party that probably would have chosen one of those two anyway, getting behind the "major" instead of the better.

I've been had by my party, who would send a center-right candidate to the GE, and thus a center-right president to the WH.

[Tx4obama]

145. grahamhgreen how much have you done in the past 8 months? Here's a list of SOME stuff Obama's done

Of 516 tracked Obama campaign promises, so far on the Obameter:

43 promises kept, 95 promises in the works

http://tinyurl.com/22mec2

And besides the promises he has been working on he has done a TON of other stuff!


I don't understand why so many people keep bitchin' when it has been only EIGHT MONTHS!
Give the guy a break!

[natrat]

146. sure, these guys are scummy turds, but whadareyagonnado? i give up on it all